jihm.2315 Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 this might sound strange but if you play power build you get damaged by retaliation that doesnt do anything against conditions is it time to introduce a boon that does the same for conditions since they are already better than direct damage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigmoid.7082 Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 Conditions don't come out if nowhere. You have to hit your target which triggers the effect of retaliation already. It's consistent between the two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jihm.2315 Posted January 18, 2018 Author Share Posted January 18, 2018 @Sigmoid.7082 said:Conditions don't come out if nowhere. You have to hit your target which triggers the effect of retaliation already. It's consistent between the two.no you dont get punished in the same rate as the power builds with conditions you apply and you dont have to stick on your target Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jihm.2315 Posted January 18, 2018 Author Share Posted January 18, 2018 transfer pain : transfer a part of condition damage back to the attacker bla blathere you go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigmoid.7082 Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 @jihm.2315 said:@Sigmoid.7082 said:Conditions don't come out if nowhere. You have to hit your target which triggers the effect of retaliation already. It's consistent between the two.no you dont get punished in the same rate as the power builds with conditions you apply and you dont have to stick on your targetSticking to your target is almost completely irrelevant. You still have to hit your target to apply any type of damage and you will still get hit by retaliation regardless of what type of damage you applied. I can hit someone with 2 skills and whether they do 10k power damage or 10k condition damage over 4~6 seconds I will still only take 2 hits from retaliation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jihm.2315 Posted January 18, 2018 Author Share Posted January 18, 2018 @Sigmoid.7082 said:@jihm.2315 said:@Sigmoid.7082 said:Conditions don't come out if nowhere. You have to hit your target which triggers the effect of retaliation already. It's consistent between the two.no you dont get punished in the same rate as the power builds with conditions you apply and you dont have to stick on your targetSticking to your target is almost completely irrelevant. You still have to hit your target to apply any type of damage and you will still get hit by retaliation regardless of what type of damage you applied. I can hit someone with 2 skills and whether they do 10k power damage or 10k condition damage over 4~6 seconds I will still only take 2 hits from retaliation. nah with conditions you can apply and kite with power builds you have to stick on your target Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Namless.4028 Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 Condition builds usually have fester attacks -> get more damage through retaliation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Offair.2563 Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 Make this happen aswell reflects on conditions. That way a condi spammer has to think twice like a power pewpew spammer has to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Namless.4028 Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 you know that if your attack that gets reflected also reflects the conditions?you can even create clones as ele that way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddbopkins.2630 Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 @Sigmoid.7082 said:Conditions don't come out if nowhere. You have to hit your target which triggers the effect of retaliation already. It's consistent between the two.Since when does a necro need to hit there target to put comditions down....most if not all of the condi application the necro does has zero to little if any animations or motions for it to give out condition. They put a f1 shade field down...when are you supposed to dodge for it? Or are you to just get the heck outs the feild? I think tje ladder cuz there is not dosging condi application anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Namless.4028 Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 @Eddbopkins.2630 said:Since when does a necro need to hit there target to put comditions down....most if not all of the condi application the necro does has zero to little if any animations or motions for it to give out condition. They put a f1 shade field down...when are you supposed to dodge for it? Or are you to just get the heck outs the feild? I think tje ladder cuz there is not dosging condi application anymore.thats not the point of this post if you just want to complain about scourge do that in one of the three trillion posts that already exist for that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crinn.7864 Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 @Eddbopkins.2630 said:@Sigmoid.7082 said:Conditions don't come out if nowhere. You have to hit your target which triggers the effect of retaliation already. It's consistent between the two.Since when does a necro need to hit there target to put comditions down....most if not all of the condi application the necro does has zero to little if any animations or motions for it to give out condition. They put a f1 shade field down...when are you supposed to dodge for it? Or are you to just get the heck outs the feild? I think tje ladder cuz there is not dosging condi application anymore.Shades have a strike component so they will trigger retaliation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silv.9207 Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 To inflict conditions you have to hit the enemy, if you hit the enemy you active Retalation. it perfectly work against both the damage sources.If you think that condition skills hit faster and with lesser animations and castings, that increase the strength of Retalation against them, inflicting more damage (more hit->more damage).If your suggestion is to make every tick of every conditions to inflict the damage of Retalation on the enemy, that would be insanely OP.Example: if the enemy hit you with a single hit that inflict you 2k he will suffer 300 damage but if the enemy inflict you a X condition that inflict 2k over 5 seconds he will suffer 1500 damage, only by hitting you once. And that for Every kind of damaging condition he threw you?You will be able to inflict more than 1k/sec to the enemy just sitting in the place and spamming retalation.That make no sense at all.Do you want to fix conditions? increase by a little the damage of conditions and reduce both the condition and condi-clean spam and you'll see a bright tomorrow for GW2. Lesser conditions that still inflict a reasonable amount of damage (enough to make sense to play a condi build) and enough condi-clean to don't get slaughtered by it without a chance to win.Increase the amount of counters to Condition will only force ANet to improve conditions to match the new difficulties to play it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jihm.2315 Posted January 19, 2018 Author Share Posted January 19, 2018 @Silv.9207 said:To inflict conditions you have to hit the enemy, if you hit the enemy you active Retalation. it perfectly work against both the damage sources.If you think that condition skills hit faster and with lesser animations and castings, that increase the strength of Retalation against them, inflicting more damage (more hit->more damage).If your suggestion is to make every tick of every conditions to inflict the damage of Retalation on the enemy, that would be insanely OP.Example: if the enemy hit you with a single hit that inflict you 2k he will suffer 300 damage but if the enemy inflict you a X condition that inflict 2k over 5 seconds he will suffer 1500 damage, only by hitting you once. And that for Every kind of damaging condition he threw you?You will be able to inflict more than 1k/sec to the enemy just sitting in the place and spamming retalation.That make no sense at all.Do you want to fix conditions? increase by a little the damage of conditions and reduce both the condition and condi-clean spam and you'll see a bright tomorrow for GW2. Lesser conditions that still inflict a reasonable amount of damage (enough to make sense to play a condi build) and enough condi-clean to don't get slaughtered by it without a chance to win.Increase the amount of counters to Condition will only force ANet to improve conditions to match the new difficulties to play it.conditions are overbuffed for pve reasons because arena net doesnt like static combat .players having a sort of retaliation for them wont harm anyone.its sounds op? yeah it might be op depending on the numbers it will damage but you need something op to counter the opness.they could keep them op as they are in pve but having more punishment when they get spammed in pvp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meteor.3720 Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 @jihm.2315 said:@"Silv.9207" said:To inflict conditions you have to hit the enemy, if you hit the enemy you active Retalation. it perfectly work against both the damage sources.If you think that condition skills hit faster and with lesser animations and castings, that increase the strength of Retalation against them, inflicting more damage (more hit->more damage).If your suggestion is to make every tick of every conditions to inflict the damage of Retalation on the enemy, that would be insanely OP.Example: if the enemy hit you with a single hit that inflict you 2k he will suffer 300 damage but if the enemy inflict you a X condition that inflict 2k over 5 seconds he will suffer 1500 damage, only by hitting you once. And that for Every kind of damaging condition he threw you?You will be able to inflict more than 1k/sec to the enemy just sitting in the place and spamming retalation.That make no sense at all.Do you want to fix conditions? increase by a little the damage of conditions and reduce both the condition and condi-clean spam and you'll see a bright tomorrow for GW2. Lesser conditions that still inflict a reasonable amount of damage (enough to make sense to play a condi build) and enough condi-clean to don't get slaughtered by it without a chance to win.Increase the amount of counters to Condition will only force ANet to improve conditions to match the new difficulties to play it.conditions are overbuffed for pve reasons because arena net doesnt like static combat .players having a sort of retaliation for them wont harm anyone.its sounds op? yeah it might be op depending on the numbers it will damage but you need something op to counter the opness.they could keep them op as they are in pve but having more punishment when they get spammed in pvp.You are literally encouraging powercreep, something everyone in all game modes is against."You need something op to counter the opness"Simply no. Such a stupid idea.You need to tone down whatever is op in the first place to bring it in line, not just make everything stupidly strong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jihm.2315 Posted January 19, 2018 Author Share Posted January 19, 2018 @Meteor.3720 said:@jihm.2315 said:@"Silv.9207" said:To inflict conditions you have to hit the enemy, if you hit the enemy you active Retalation. it perfectly work against both the damage sources.If you think that condition skills hit faster and with lesser animations and castings, that increase the strength of Retalation against them, inflicting more damage (more hit->more damage).If your suggestion is to make every tick of every conditions to inflict the damage of Retalation on the enemy, that would be insanely OP.Example: if the enemy hit you with a single hit that inflict you 2k he will suffer 300 damage but if the enemy inflict you a X condition that inflict 2k over 5 seconds he will suffer 1500 damage, only by hitting you once. And that for Every kind of damaging condition he threw you?You will be able to inflict more than 1k/sec to the enemy just sitting in the place and spamming retalation.That make no sense at all.Do you want to fix conditions? increase by a little the damage of conditions and reduce both the condition and condi-clean spam and you'll see a bright tomorrow for GW2. Lesser conditions that still inflict a reasonable amount of damage (enough to make sense to play a condi build) and enough condi-clean to don't get slaughtered by it without a chance to win.Increase the amount of counters to Condition will only force ANet to improve conditions to match the new difficulties to play it.conditions are overbuffed for pve reasons because arena net doesnt like static combat .players having a sort of retaliation for them wont harm anyone.its sounds op? yeah it might be op depending on the numbers it will damage but you need something op to counter the opness.they could keep them op as they are in pve but having more punishment when they get spammed in pvp.You are literally encouraging powercreep, something everyone in all game modes is against."You need something op to counter the opness"Simply no. Such a stupid idea.You need to tone down whatever is op in the first place to bring it in line, not just make everything stupidly strong.good luck nerfing conditions then i already said that it would depend on the numbers it damages back but you didnt read Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaliel.3918 Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 @jihm.2315 said:@Meteor.3720 said:@jihm.2315 said:@"Silv.9207" said:To inflict conditions you have to hit the enemy, if you hit the enemy you active Retalation. it perfectly work against both the damage sources.If you think that condition skills hit faster and with lesser animations and castings, that increase the strength of Retalation against them, inflicting more damage (more hit->more damage).If your suggestion is to make every tick of every conditions to inflict the damage of Retalation on the enemy, that would be insanely OP.Example: if the enemy hit you with a single hit that inflict you 2k he will suffer 300 damage but if the enemy inflict you a X condition that inflict 2k over 5 seconds he will suffer 1500 damage, only by hitting you once. And that for Every kind of damaging condition he threw you?You will be able to inflict more than 1k/sec to the enemy just sitting in the place and spamming retalation.That make no sense at all.Do you want to fix conditions? increase by a little the damage of conditions and reduce both the condition and condi-clean spam and you'll see a bright tomorrow for GW2. Lesser conditions that still inflict a reasonable amount of damage (enough to make sense to play a condi build) and enough condi-clean to don't get slaughtered by it without a chance to win.Increase the amount of counters to Condition will only force ANet to improve conditions to match the new difficulties to play it.conditions are overbuffed for pve reasons because arena net doesnt like static combat .players having a sort of retaliation for them wont harm anyone.its sounds op? yeah it might be op depending on the numbers it will damage but you need something op to counter the opness.they could keep them op as they are in pve but having more punishment when they get spammed in pvp.You are literally encouraging powercreep, something everyone in all game modes is against."You need something op to counter the opness"Simply no. Such a stupid idea.You need to tone down whatever is op in the first place to bring it in line, not just make everything stupidly strong.good luck nerfing conditions then i already said that it would depend on the numbers it damages back but you didnt readWe all read your idea, it's just stupid and won't work. It's easier to nerf conditions than "create a new boon/effect that reflecs a % of damage back". Also, EVERONE IN THE GAME NEEDS TO HIT THE ENEMY TO APLY CONDITIONS, so yes, retaliation works against them already, we don't need more powercreep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jihm.2315 Posted January 20, 2018 Author Share Posted January 20, 2018 @Alehin.3746 said:@jihm.2315 said:@Meteor.3720 said:@jihm.2315 said:@"Silv.9207" said:To inflict conditions you have to hit the enemy, if you hit the enemy you active Retalation. it perfectly work against both the damage sources.If you think that condition skills hit faster and with lesser animations and castings, that increase the strength of Retalation against them, inflicting more damage (more hit->more damage).If your suggestion is to make every tick of every conditions to inflict the damage of Retalation on the enemy, that would be insanely OP.Example: if the enemy hit you with a single hit that inflict you 2k he will suffer 300 damage but if the enemy inflict you a X condition that inflict 2k over 5 seconds he will suffer 1500 damage, only by hitting you once. And that for Every kind of damaging condition he threw you?You will be able to inflict more than 1k/sec to the enemy just sitting in the place and spamming retalation.That make no sense at all.Do you want to fix conditions? increase by a little the damage of conditions and reduce both the condition and condi-clean spam and you'll see a bright tomorrow for GW2. Lesser conditions that still inflict a reasonable amount of damage (enough to make sense to play a condi build) and enough condi-clean to don't get slaughtered by it without a chance to win.Increase the amount of counters to Condition will only force ANet to improve conditions to match the new difficulties to play it.conditions are overbuffed for pve reasons because arena net doesnt like static combat .players having a sort of retaliation for them wont harm anyone.its sounds op? yeah it might be op depending on the numbers it will damage but you need something op to counter the opness.they could keep them op as they are in pve but having more punishment when they get spammed in pvp.You are literally encouraging powercreep, something everyone in all game modes is against."You need something op to counter the opness"Simply no. Such a stupid idea.You need to tone down whatever is op in the first place to bring it in line, not just make everything stupidly strong.good luck nerfing conditions then i already said that it would depend on the numbers it damages back but you didnt readWe all read your idea, it's just stupid and won't work. It's easier to nerf conditions than "create a new boon/effect that reflecs a % of damage back". Also, EVERONE IN THE GAME NEEDS TO HIT THE ENEMY TO APLY CONDITIONS, so yes, retaliation works against them already, we don't need more powercreep.they wont nerf conditions its the bread and butter of pve they want players to constantly move in both raids and fractals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaliel.3918 Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 @jihm.2315 said:@Alehin.3746 said:@jihm.2315 said:@Meteor.3720 said:@jihm.2315 said:@"Silv.9207" said:To inflict conditions you have to hit the enemy, if you hit the enemy you active Retalation. it perfectly work against both the damage sources.If you think that condition skills hit faster and with lesser animations and castings, that increase the strength of Retalation against them, inflicting more damage (more hit->more damage).If your suggestion is to make every tick of every conditions to inflict the damage of Retalation on the enemy, that would be insanely OP.Example: if the enemy hit you with a single hit that inflict you 2k he will suffer 300 damage but if the enemy inflict you a X condition that inflict 2k over 5 seconds he will suffer 1500 damage, only by hitting you once. And that for Every kind of damaging condition he threw you?You will be able to inflict more than 1k/sec to the enemy just sitting in the place and spamming retalation.That make no sense at all.Do you want to fix conditions? increase by a little the damage of conditions and reduce both the condition and condi-clean spam and you'll see a bright tomorrow for GW2. Lesser conditions that still inflict a reasonable amount of damage (enough to make sense to play a condi build) and enough condi-clean to don't get slaughtered by it without a chance to win.Increase the amount of counters to Condition will only force ANet to improve conditions to match the new difficulties to play it.conditions are overbuffed for pve reasons because arena net doesnt like static combat .players having a sort of retaliation for them wont harm anyone.its sounds op? yeah it might be op depending on the numbers it will damage but you need something op to counter the opness.they could keep them op as they are in pve but having more punishment when they get spammed in pvp.You are literally encouraging powercreep, something everyone in all game modes is against."You need something op to counter the opness"Simply no. Such a stupid idea.You need to tone down whatever is op in the first place to bring it in line, not just make everything stupidly strong.good luck nerfing conditions then i already said that it would depend on the numbers it damages back but you didnt readWe all read your idea, it's just stupid and won't work. It's easier to nerf conditions than "create a new boon/effect that reflecs a % of damage back". Also, EVERONE IN THE GAME NEEDS TO HIT THE ENEMY TO APLY CONDITIONS, so yes, retaliation works against them already, we don't need more powercreep.they wont nerf conditions its the bread and butter of pve they want players to constantly move in both raids and fractals That's not how condition builds works. You need to attack constantly as a condition dps, just like power dps. I feel like you never played raids or condi builds at all, because thats really far from what it really is.Watch this video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4mIDLE3RKcNotice how they constantly attack the golem.Now watch this one:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dlfeeouJI8See? The only pause the condi FB player did was during Renewed Focus, which is used to reset tome of justice so they can cause more damage. You can dodge attacks that apply condition just like you can dodge attacks that are only power damage, the problem is that you guys don't know what skills causes most damage/condis. Can't really do that against scourge tho, because they have no cast time or animation on the shade skills.I bet you have the same "bad habit" that i have: i dodge for no reason very often, and that makes me take a lot of extra damage because i don't have endurance to dodge big hits. If that's the case, try not dodging "for no reason" so much and try learning what are the enemy skills that you REALLY need to avoid, and always keep the "second dodge charge" to dodge skills like that, while you use the first one to dodge weaker skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razor.6392 Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 basically every single boon and condition heavily favor condition usage.protection: reduce power dmgweakness: 50% chance to do 50% less damage (does not affect condi)vuln: used to increase only power damage, was changed to also increase condition damage (LOL)retaliation: most useful against power dmgslow: hurts power damage a lot, does nothing to already ticking condisThen there's resistance but only 2 classes can reliably apply that boon.I just realized how vulnerability was changed to favor damaging conditions. However, asking for debilitating conditions to also affect dmging conditions negatively is too much to ask.Best of both worlds: condi damage. Burst like no other, go through every boon and ignore armor. Excellent design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flauvious.6195 Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 @Sigmoid.7082 said:@jihm.2315 said:@Sigmoid.7082 said:Conditions don't come out if nowhere. You have to hit your target which triggers the effect of retaliation already. It's consistent between the two.no you dont get punished in the same rate as the power builds with conditions you apply and you dont have to stick on your targetSticking to your target is almost completely irrelevant. You still have to hit your target to apply any type of damage and you will still get hit by retaliation regardless of what type of damage you applied. I can hit someone with 2 skills and whether they do 10k power damage or 10k condition damage over 4~6 seconds I will still only take 2 hits from retaliation. But you don't have to land as many hits in a condition build, a single blow that attaches condis does more damage than a power build attack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigmoid.7082 Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 @Flauvious.6195 said:@Sigmoid.7082 said:@jihm.2315 said:@Sigmoid.7082 said:Conditions don't come out if nowhere. You have to hit your target which triggers the effect of retaliation already. It's consistent between the two.no you dont get punished in the same rate as the power builds with conditions you apply and you dont have to stick on your targetSticking to your target is almost completely irrelevant. You still have to hit your target to apply any type of damage and you will still get hit by retaliation regardless of what type of damage you applied. I can hit someone with 2 skills and whether they do 10k power damage or 10k condition damage over 4~6 seconds I will still only take 2 hits from retaliation. But you don't have to land as many hits in a condition build, a single blow that attaches condis does more damage than a power build attack This isn't exactly a completely true statement and is fairly conditional. @Razor.6392 said:basically every single boon and condition heavily favor condition usage.protection: reduce power dmgweakness: 50% chance to do 50% less damage (does not affect condi)vuln: used to increase only power damage, was changed to also increase condition damage (LOL)retaliation: most useful against power dmgslow: hurts power damage a lot, does nothing to already ticking condisThen there's resistance but only 2 classes can reliably apply that boon.I just realized how vulnerability was changed to favor damaging conditions. However, asking for debilitating conditions to also affect dmging conditions negatively is too much to ask.Best of both worlds: condi damage. Burst like no other, go through every boon and ignore armor. Excellent design.Yet any ability and any trait that removes conditions has no effect on power damage. Also saying slow does nothing vs condi ticks is like saying it does nothing against power hits I have already taken. Slow lessens the rate of incoming damage of both types universally just like retaliation punishes hitting your target regardless of what damage type you are applying. For some reason when people have issues with power damage they will more often make a thread about the particular class or skill e.g. fresh air weaver one shot is op, deadeye deaths judgement does to much, holosmith dodgeroll mines are way to strong. But when they have an issues with condition classes or skills, which is evident by the nature of some posts to exactly which class they are referring to, its more likely they will complain that conditions as a whole are broken and need some weird changes i.e. this thread. The death breakdown needs to better show what skill caused how much condition damage or which player it came from because it currently groups everything all together. OPs idea is generally just bad. If you took retaliation damage for every tick of a condition then you should in essence take a % of the damage you hit for from retaliation. People would go wild with rage claiming retaliation is an OP boon and unfair to play against. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saiyan.1704 Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 As much as I want to like it, this will not work. If a player realizes retal boon is up, the person could simply stop attacking if he values his health. There's no way for a condi class to stop their conditions from ticking after a burst.Not to mention a huge issue of other power classes causing miscellaneous conditions... they'll be taking your condi-retal damages too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swagg.9236 Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 Rewarding players for repeatedly being struck is not an engaging or interesting mechanic (especially when outgoing damage is wildly disproportionate to the amount of return damage which Retaliation inflicts; it's either going to be worthless or frustrating and overpowered so it might as well just not exist). As bad as conditions are, adding more "It's this effect, but for conditions," to the game is absolutely ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jihm.2315 Posted January 22, 2018 Author Share Posted January 22, 2018 @"Swagg.9236" said:Rewarding players for repeatedly being struck is not an engaging or interesting mechanic (especially when outgoing damage is wildly disproportionate to the amount of return damage which Retaliation inflicts; it's either going to be worthless or frustrating and overpowered so it might as well just not exist). As bad as conditions are, adding more "It's this effect, but for conditions," to the game is absolutely ridiculous.you cant make ridiculous what already is ridiculous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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