Finally, is the AFK farm ok or not ? - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Finally, is the AFK farm ok or not ?

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Answers

  • hugo.4705hugo.4705 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 12, 2018

    @Shikigami.4013 said:

    @hugo.4705 said:

    Your ways of "spotting" are total nonsense.
    -Minions do not expire and do not need to be recast unless killed, so they never are "respawned in the same time"
    -Using only skill 1 could just mean someone is too lazy to make a char with which farming is easier than to keep key 1 pressed down on your keyboard It does not prove botting, macroing, or even being afk.
    -You cannot tag enemies per minion and noone does that. All minions attack the same target. You make zero sense here

    You just proven my argument by saying no one can tag one foe per minion. But I saw some doing so they aren't normal players.

    Now for skill 1 even with no ennemies, it just proove they put a weight on the key and gone away. (Afk farm)

    Now for turrets and minions, they disappear after a certain time due to death of the element or selfdestruct, and have to be refreshed. I just feel like you haven't read my post: I'm not asking you for normal situation but an unusual one, respawning 5 minions in the same time isn't possible, you have a delay at the minimum of 1 sec per minion. (Time to press the skill and summoning him.) Same for turrets.

    Also necros doing 0 attack and letting their minions killing everything is afk farming.

    Now to end this, you can spot who is summoning what by looking at their toons, you have an animation while putting turrets, summoning minions. Could be hard I agree.

    +++In creative mood. New Engie Elite spec' DONE, Housing DONE, New asuran expansion DONE, Designing a new lounge "current", New GameMode DONE

  • @TallBarr.2184 said:
    I was actively controlling my chars 1 by 1 by autorunning and tagging mobs in the labyrinthe, so yes i would be using skills, but it was 1 action 1 key 1 account.
    I had my game windows like this http://prntscr.com/lhb102 4 accounts on 1 monitor

    I could have had it fully dragged out like this http://prntscr.com/lhb34e but i always made it smaller so i could see more of the surroundings and not have the interface cover 10% of the screen, with smallest chat interface and playing 4 accounts the time for a message to be gone in the scrollback isnt long, if other stuff is being typed in other chats, map or guild chat for exmaple.

    Whisper colours can easily blend it to the others map chat colours or guild chat colours if you are controlling 4 accounts at the same time, running and tagging monsters. Not like anyone playing the game looks at the chat all the time.

    This is getting a bit too specific as we are not allowed to discuss actions taken against an account, and if they are justified or not. You probably are better off opening a support ticket and describe the situation in detail. I doubt that they will remove the suspension though, as it seems that playing 4 accounts at the same time has left you with so little attention to the game that all three criteria which have been discussed in detail applied to you. You were using skills, you were farming, and you did not react to the GM trying to contact you. I would suggest that you limit the number of accounts played at one time on monitor to something where you actually do not miss GM interaction attempts in the future.

    YouTube “L2villagejester”.
    People using belittling wording like whining/qqing" are not taken seriously by me
    Same for people posting only to tell others not to post (“deal with it”-posts)

  • Shikigami.4013Shikigami.4013 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 12, 2018

    @hugo.4705 said:

    @Shikigami.4013 said:

    @hugo.4705 said:
    Really easy way to spot guys using macros /afk:
    -for necros: respawn every minion in same time / same with turrets for engineers.
    -only using skill 1 even in void without ennemies. Which is Afk farming
    -tagging multiple ennemies like 1 per minion

    Your ways of "spotting" are total nonsense.
    -Minions do not expire and do not need to be recast unless killed, so they never are "respawned in the same time"
    -Using only skill 1 could just mean someone is too lazy to make a char with which farming is easier than to keep key 1 pressed down on your keyboard It does not prove botting, macroing, or even being afk. It is just one more baseless accusation and horrible advice to "check" or prove afk/botting
    -You cannot tag enemies per minion and noone does that. All minions attack the same target. You make zero sense here

    The only halfway accurate indication of someone using a macro or bot is when engi turrets expire and every time are recast with the exact same interval. However, even this "spot" advice is completely pointless because to check this you would have to spend ages watching the engi, and you would not even know which turrets belong to which char.

    You just proven my argument by saying no one can tag one foe per minion. But I saw some doing so they aren't normal players.

    Now for skill 1 even with no ennemies, it just proove they put a weight on the key and gone away.

    Now for turrets and minions, they disappear after a certain time, and have to be refreshed. I just feel like you haven't read my post. I'm not asking you for normal situation but unusual one, respawning 5 minions in the same time isn't possible, you have a delay at the minimum of 1 sec per minion. (Time to press the skill and summoning him.)

    Also necros doing 0 attack and letting their minions killing everything is afk farming.

    You feel like I have not read your post? You have to be kidding me. Is that why I responded in detail to each and every "advice" you gave point by point?

    You are showing that you have no knowledge of the game, and even when told where you are wrong, you repeat the same wrong statement without checking. I said minions do not expire (which they dont), yet you reply saying the same thing again (minions disappear after a certain time). Once again: You are wrong.

    Respawning 5 minions at a time happens when you had minions spawned and used your mount and then dismount. Poof, 5 minions at a time. No "disappearing after a certain time" involved.

    Necros doing 0 attack and letting their minions kill everything is not afk farming, which has been written (with proof) more times than I can remember ever since the big thread in 2016 where the three criteria were officially given to us by the lead of game security. If you are not using a skill, you do not fulfil criteria #1. Before you make the people who actually did read this thread and know what they are talking about shake their heads in disbelief about your factual wrong statements, you should inform yourself and start reading this thread from the beginning, especially the extremely helpful and detailed explanation of @Illconceived Was Na.9781 that was marked as "Accepted answer".

    YouTube “L2villagejester”.
    People using belittling wording like whining/qqing" are not taken seriously by me
    Same for people posting only to tell others not to post (“deal with it”-posts)

  • hugo.4705hugo.4705 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 12, 2018

    Reread, I haven't finished to edit my post. PS: I played the game since the beginning. The fact is, minions/turret dead, have to be respawned.
    I already read @Illconceived Was Na.9781 and can only agree with. If my arguments don't convince you, and don't want to even accept them because of yours it's ok. Then pass. But where we can agree together is the fact of sending a Pm to the player and seeing if he/she respond or not.

    That's all for me. AFK farming isn't allowed, defend it if you want.

    +++In creative mood. New Engie Elite spec' DONE, Housing DONE, New asuran expansion DONE, Designing a new lounge "current", New GameMode DONE

  • @hugo.4705 said:
    Reread, I haven't finished to edit my post. PS: I played the game since the beginning. The fact is, minions/turret dead, have to be respawned.
    I already read @Illconceived Was Na.9781 and can only agree with. If my arguments don't convince you, and don't want to even accept them because of yours it's ok. Then pass. But where we can agree together is the fact of sending a Pm to the player and seeing if he/she respond or not.

    That's all for me. AFK farming isn't allowed, defend it if you want.

    You are assuming that I am defending afk farming? Maybe go back to the post above your first one where I actually wrote

    @shikigami.4013
    I also once said "Thanks for checking" in say chat to let the GM know I appreciate them doing it, because I don't like cheaters who afk-farm

    What I am defending here are the facts like non-despawning minions, the officially given criteria for unallowed afk-farming and common sense like that having a button pressed down permanently is just an indication and not a "proof" that someone is afk. You probably won't bother to check my post history on this topic, but my dislike for afk-farming, botting and cheating is rivaled by my dislike for factual wrong statements in the threads about it.

    YouTube “L2villagejester”.
    People using belittling wording like whining/qqing" are not taken seriously by me
    Same for people posting only to tell others not to post (“deal with it”-posts)

  • hugo.4705hugo.4705 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 12, 2018

    So, just to sum up nicely, my first post was just saying what you said before, I quote:> @Shikigami.4013 said:

    @Powah.1672 said:
    People who managed to put preassure on "attack button" with some kind of weight and then leaves g

    1. Using skill (1 or more) while AFK
    2. AFKing in a place where it is beneficial for your character to be at
    3. Unresponsive to interaction with GMs

    If you put a weight on a key triggering a skill (like the skill1 "attack button") #1 applies: Your char is using a skill
    If you are at a place where mobs keep spawning that drop loot, give xp, give you participation in an event or anything else beneficial for your char #2 applies
    If you are afk as in you are not there and will not see when a GM checks on you (be it that he whispers you or moves you to a different place) #3 applies.

    So jamming a key on your keyboard for your char to attack mobs and then leaving your PC obviously put in in not okay category.

    That's exactly what I said, resummoning several turrets in same time, minions... is number 1. Oftlenly happen in 2.
    3 I added it in my last answer
    As I said weight on key is not okay.

    I actually think we have the same opinion but not with the same formulation :/

    +++In creative mood. New Engie Elite spec' DONE, Housing DONE, New asuran expansion DONE, Designing a new lounge "current", New GameMode DONE

  • kharmin.7683kharmin.7683 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Why necro this thread? The question has long been answered.

    I am a very casual player.
    Very.
    Casual.

  • Deepcuts.9740Deepcuts.9740 Member ✭✭✭

    I really like people reporting others just because they don't respond to them :)
    I have a hard time getting any kind of response from squad or party people when asked specific question.
    I mean, I can do a full t4 run while asking the chrono "why no alacrity at all?" several times, or asking why no food, or no potions, etc.
    So many times, the one asked will not respond. At all. Who knows, maybe he thinks "if I don't respond, he won't know I am here"
    Should I reported them also? /s

  • TallBarr.2184TallBarr.2184 Member ✭✭✭

    @Shikigami.4013 said:

    @hugo.4705 said:
    Reread, I haven't finished to edit my post. PS: I played the game since the beginning. The fact is, minions/turret dead, have to be respawned.
    I already read @Illconceived Was Na.9781 and can only agree with. If my arguments don't convince you, and don't want to even accept them because of yours it's ok. Then pass. But where we can agree together is the fact of sending a Pm to the player and seeing if he/she respond or not.

    That's all for me. AFK farming isn't allowed, defend it if you want.

    You are assuming that I am defending afk farming? Maybe go back to the post above your first one where I actually wrote

    @shikigami.4013
    I also once said "Thanks for checking" in say chat to let the GM know I appreciate them doing it, because I don't like cheaters who afk-farm

    What I am defending here are the facts like non-despawning minions, the officially given criteria for unallowed afk-farming and common sense like that having a button pressed down permanently is just an indication and not a "proof" that someone is afk. You probably won't bother to check my post history on this topic, but my dislike for afk-farming, botting and cheating is rivaled by my dislike for factual wrong statements in the threads about it.

    Just like not answering a message cant be proof someone is afk but merely a indication, its humanly possible to miss someone messaging you. None is asking for their systems on how they track botters, but when the only reason you get is that you didnt answer a message it makes you think.

    Bottom line is if you position yourself anywhere in the game and dont actively play you should be subject to botting. Letting your minions do the job is not active play, letting your turrets do the job is not active play either.
    Anet can fix this easy by just reworking turrets and minions, voila.. problem solved. This is why AI is bad for any game, so easy to exploit.

  • Shikigami.4013Shikigami.4013 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 12, 2018

    I have yet to be whispered by someone asking me if I am afk. Usually people come up the blob and stand there and look. Many of those are probably busy reporting everyone they can target. Others pass by (often on mounts) and make snarky or abusive remarks about afk farmers and are gone before you can say something. Yet others pass and then complain in mapchat about all the bots. This happens all the time and there really is no point in talking with those people.

    When they ask if you are afk and you reply, they may bait and switch and then tell you that you are a filthy cheater even when you are not afk. Why do they ask then in the first place? Or they say it is coincidence that you just now are not afk, and claim that you are standing there day and night when you are of course not. The possibilities of pointless discussions are endless. Normally I won't bother to reply, because it seems like a GM will check on us anyway, no matter if there is one report more or less.

    YouTube “L2villagejester”.
    People using belittling wording like whining/qqing" are not taken seriously by me
    Same for people posting only to tell others not to post (“deal with it”-posts)

  • Vash.2386Vash.2386 Member ✭✭✭

    If any random player were to whisper me I would just ignore them. I have no duty to respond to another player. But a whisper from a GM is another matter totally.

  • @TallBarr.2184 said:
    Just like not answering a message cant be proof someone is afk but merely a indication, its humanly possible to miss someone messaging you. None is asking for their systems on how they track botters, but when the only reason you get is that you didnt answer a message it makes you think.

    They don't rely just on response to whispers. If there's no answer, the GMs will move the characters away from the farm and see if there's any change.

    Bottom line is if you position yourself anywhere in the game and dont actively play you should be subject to botting. Letting your minions do the job is not active play, letting your turrets do the job is not active play either.

    "Active play" isn't the official standard. ANet allows inattentive farming because their research shows that it's not bad for the game. They haven't explained this very well, so we are mostly left to speculate that (a) the income is low enough to have only a modest impact on the supply of gold, karma, & materials; that (b) the negative impression left by seeing crowds of characters is more than made up for by keeping those players involved in the game in other ways; and that (c) the cost of enforcement of allow inattentive farming is significantly less than the cost of drawing a stricter line.

    Anet can fix this easy by just reworking turrets and minions, voila.. problem solved.

    ANet doesn't agree that there's a problem that needs to be solved.

    This is why AI is bad for any game, so easy to exploit.

    In effect, ANet has ruled that this isn't exploitative.

    "Face the facts. Then act on them. It's ...the only doctrine I have to offer you, & it's harder than you'd think, because I swear humans seem hardwired to do anything but. Face the facts. Don't pray, don't wish, ...FACE THE FACTS. THEN act." — Quellcrist Falconer

  • TallBarr.2184TallBarr.2184 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 12, 2018

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

    @TallBarr.2184 said:
    Just like not answering a message cant be proof someone is afk but merely a indication, its humanly possible to miss someone messaging you. None is asking for their systems on how they track botters, but when the only reason you get is that you didnt answer a message it makes you think.

    They don't rely just on response to whispers. If there's no answer, the GMs will move the characters away from the farm and see if there's any change.

    Bottom line is if you position yourself anywhere in the game and dont actively play you should be subject to botting. Letting your minions do the job is not active play, letting your turrets do the job is not active play either.

    "Active play" isn't the official standard. ANet allows inattentive farming because their research shows that it's not bad for the game. They haven't explained this very well, so we are mostly left to speculate that (a) the income is low enough to have only a modest impact on the supply of gold, karma, & materials; that (b) the negative impression left by seeing crowds of characters is more than made up for by keeping those players involved in the game in other ways; and that (c) the cost of enforcement of allow inattentive farming is significantly less than the cost of drawing a stricter line.

    Anet can fix this easy by just reworking turrets and minions, voila.. problem solved.

    ANet doesn't agree that there's a problem that needs to be solved.

    This is why AI is bad for any game, so easy to exploit.

    In effect, ANet has ruled that this isn't exploitative.

    l
    l

    "They don't rely just on response to whispers. If there's no answer, the GMs will move the characters away from the farm and see if there's any change."

    Then there must be different protocols of how to treat afk players between the GM's because my chars were being suspended few minutes after my characters were teleported to the southwest corner of the halloween labyrinthe just at the map border, i moved them away from there when they were ported but that didnt seem to matter. And if thats the case thats not fair towards the players, there needs to be guidelines for how afking is handled enforced by every GM.

    "Active play" isn't the official standard. ANet allows inattentive farming because their research shows that it's not bad for the game"

    If thats the case you cant have GM's contradicting eachother on the topic. You have lead GM's stating you need to aware of whats going on and your surroundings, how is standing at the same spot 24/7 letting your turrets and minions do the work, thats not active play and you are not being aware of your surroundings.

    "ANet doesn't agree that there's a problem that needs to be solved."

    If you have GM's saying they are "particulary serious offences" i would think otherwise.

    "In effect, ANet has ruled that this isn't exploitative."

    ^

  • @TallBarr.2184 said:
    And if thats the case thats not fair towards the players, there needs to be guidelines for how afking is handled enforced by every GM.

    There are guidelines on how AFKing is handled & enforced by every GM. But GMs are only human. If they made a mistake, the only way that ANet would find out is if someone files an appeal.

    Then there must be different protocols of how to treat afk players between the GM's because my chars were being suspended few minutes after my characters were teleported to the southwest corner of the halloween labyrinthe just at the map border, i moved them away from there when they were ported but that didnt seem to matter.

    If it gets to the point where they are moving characters, not just whispering, I can imagine that the GMs won't have much slack to give. And I've seen people claiming (on Reddit) that they were "only gone a few minutes" and ANet has said it was much, much longer than that. If that's not the case for your situation, file an appeal.

    If thats the case you cant have GM's contradicting eachother on the topic.

    I don't see evidence that they are contradicting each other.

    You have lead GM's stating you need to aware of whats going on and your surroundings,

    That's consistent with the policy ANet has stated.

    how is standing at the same spot 24/7 letting your turrets and minions do the work, thats not active play and you are not being aware of your surroundings.

    "Active play" isn't the standard. Letting turrets or minions do most of the work is allowed.

    "ANet doesn't agree that there's a problem that needs to be solved."

    If you have GM's saying they are "particulary serious offences" i would think otherwise.

    Where do we have that? AFK farming isn't okay; they consider that serious. Inattentive farming is different.

    "In effect, ANet has ruled that this isn't exploitative."

    ^

    "This" being "inattentive farming." They do considering "AFK farming" to be bad for the game.

    "Face the facts. Then act on them. It's ...the only doctrine I have to offer you, & it's harder than you'd think, because I swear humans seem hardwired to do anything but. Face the facts. Don't pray, don't wish, ...FACE THE FACTS. THEN act." — Quellcrist Falconer

  • Dami.5046Dami.5046 Member ✭✭✭

    All well and good. So if i'm on my MM and need the loo so quickly run off knowing my character can handle it for someone to report me and a GM whisper me and then ban me because for a few mins I'm not there?
    In fact playing an MM opens up such a can of worms its unbelievable. If i'm bored I can play follow my leader as has happened before getting ' hello, are you there?' whispers. People have actually followed me around.
    If it's so bad then Anet need to change how an MM works, because I hardly think it's fair to ban on basis that a player can do this, without third party, if the game mechanics allows it.
    AfK farmers as a rule don't worry me. What worries me is the witch hunt.

  • TallBarr.2184TallBarr.2184 Member ✭✭✭

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

    @TallBarr.2184 said:
    And if thats the case thats not fair towards the players, there needs to be guidelines for how afking is handled enforced by every GM.

    There are guidelines on how AFKing is handled & enforced by every GM. But GMs are only human. If they made a mistake, the only way that ANet would find out is if someone files an appeal.

    Then there must be different protocols of how to treat afk players between the GM's because my chars were being suspended few minutes after my characters were teleported to the southwest corner of the halloween labyrinthe just at the map border, i moved them away from there when they were ported but that didnt seem to matter.

    If it gets to the point where they are moving characters, not just whispering, I can imagine that the GMs won't have much slack to give. And I've seen people claiming (on Reddit) that they were "only gone a few minutes" and ANet has said it was much, much longer than that. If that's not the case for your situation, file an appeal.

    If thats the case you cant have GM's contradicting eachother on the topic.

    I don't see evidence that they are contradicting each other.

    You have lead GM's stating you need to aware of whats going on and your surroundings,

    That's consistent with the policy ANet has stated.

    how is standing at the same spot 24/7 letting your turrets and minions do the work, thats not active play and you are not being aware of your surroundings.

    "Active play" isn't the standard. Letting turrets or minions do most of the work is allowed.

    "ANet doesn't agree that there's a problem that needs to be solved."

    If you have GM's saying they are "particulary serious offences" i would think otherwise.

    Where do we have that? AFK farming isn't okay; they consider that serious. Inattentive farming is different.

    "In effect, ANet has ruled that this isn't exploitative."

    ^

    "This" being "inattentive farming." They do considering "AFK farming" to be bad for the game.

    this quote from a seperate forum post sums it up nicely:

    < "AFK farming isn't okay, because it tends to lead people to stop playing (both the AFKers and those who see them); it has an economic impact, too, but not as severe. Inattentive farming is okay. For example, you can watch a movie while moving your character occasionally." (I did find this original post in the forums although the movie reference was not included in the original post)

    I understand the difference but they're not playing actively playing the game. They can be playing CS:GO, or watching a movie like they said, or cleaning the house. The point is they are not actively playing the game. They are doing activities outside the game while having their characters logged in and gaining items in the game while they are not actively playing. People will probably argue this is fine since they check their computer occasionally but in the end they are not actively playing the game. It does give the appearance of them having an unfair advantage."

    Also why is there even a difference between afk farming or "unattentive farming" they get the same loot, they stand at the same spot, its the same thing. Its just different words.

    "That's consistent with the policy ANet has stated."
    apparently not when you claim unattendive farming is somehow okay

    "I don't see evidence that they are contradicting each other."
    I'm not allowed to share such things on their official forums, since it would get me a warning or banned from posting here. But give me your reddit name and ill send you some screenshots.

    some quotes from anet GM's from reddit:

    "The game is made to be actively played"

    "You need to be active and involved when you gain benefits in the game. So "afking while meta", if it gives you a benefit, is not okay. The game was made to be played, actively, by a person directing the actions directly."

    " If a user does choose to use more than one client, they need to be fully in control of each of them. This includes being responsive and being aware of the surroundings."

  • @Taygus.4571 said:
    Afaik, afk farming is NOT ok.

    Lazy / not paying much attention farming is...but you have to be at your keyboard.

    yeah but how exactly do you define this?

    who decides what is acceptable/non acceptable afk-ing is?

  • Ehh, percieved afk farming annoys other gamers. Its a tiny bit risky. Why take the risk for minor loot, unless maybe its not so minor?

  • @TallBarr.2184 said:
    I understand the difference but they're not playing actively playing the game.

    You appear to understand it differently from the devs. "Actively playing" is not the standard.

    Also why is there even a difference between afk farming or "unattentive farming" they get the same loot, they stand at the same spot, its the same thing. Its just different words.

    I'm sorry that you have trouble seeing the difference.

    • AFK farming means you are literally not at the computer.
    • Inattentive farming is where you are at the computer, but focused on something else, with only part of your attention on the game.

    The difference isn't the amount of loot; it's the engagement of the player with the game.

    "That's consistent with the policy ANet has stated."
    apparently not when you claim unattendive farming is somehow okay

    I'm not claiming it; the devs have stated that their definition of what is okay allows for the possibility of people doing the bare minimum.

    "I don't see evidence that they are contradicting each other."
    I'm not allowed to share such things on their official forums, since it would get me a warning or banned from posting here. But give me your reddit name and ill send you some screenshots.

    You can PM me here.

    some quotes from anet GM's from reddit:

    "The game is made to be actively played"

    "You need to be active and involved when you gain benefits in the game. So "afking while meta", if it gives you a benefit, is not okay. The game was made to be played, actively, by a person directing the actions directly."

    " If a user does choose to use more than one client, they need to be fully in control of each of them. This includes being responsive and being aware of the surroundings."

    Yes, that's 100% consistent with disallowing AFK farming and allowing inattentive farming. We can multibox by e.g. entering a home instance with 4 alt accounts, as long as you are using multiple computers or alt-tabbing multiple times to run each character around, press [f]. We cannot automate it so that one keyboard is used to control the five accounts simultaneously.

    You seem to be deliberately taking the phrase "you need to be active" out of the context to extend it to disallow inattentive game play. It's "active enough" to be allowable. In effect, the devs are saying, "we don't care about how active you are, only about whether you're at the keyboard, in control." Letting your necros handle aggro while binge-watching Stranger Things is fine, as long as you're there, at the computer, able to respond to GM whispers and move your toon(s). Going to prepare dinner and occasionally checking is not.

    "Face the facts. Then act on them. It's ...the only doctrine I have to offer you, & it's harder than you'd think, because I swear humans seem hardwired to do anything but. Face the facts. Don't pray, don't wish, ...FACE THE FACTS. THEN act." — Quellcrist Falconer

  • Healix.5819Healix.5819 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @TatsuyaHiroki.7412 said:
    who decides what is acceptable/non acceptable afk-ing is?

    Ultimately it is entirely up to the GM that is investigating you. The rule is, if you are gaining benefits while AFK and fail to react to the GM investigating you, you will be banned. Fun fact, it's not even okay to solo a dungeon while having other accounts sitting at the entrance.

    @TallBarr.2184 said:
    Also why is there even a difference between afk farming or "unattentive farming" they get the same loot, they stand at the same spot, its the same thing. Its just different words.

    Depending on how you use "AFK" it does mean the same thing, but AFK technically means you're not at your computer, while the other simply means you're not focusing on the game. Either way, if you're investigated and fail to respond in time, you will be banned.

  • Shikigami.4013Shikigami.4013 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 12, 2018

    @TallBarr.2184 said:

    I understand the difference but they're not playing actively playing the game. They can be playing CS:GO, or watching a movie like they said, or cleaning the house. The point is they are not actively playing the game. They are doing activities outside the game while having their characters logged in and gaining items in the game while they are not actively playing. People will probably argue this is fine since they check their computer occasionally but in the end they are not actively playing the game. It does give the appearance of them having an unfair advantage."

    The rules for afk-farming are not "you have to be actively playing the game". The rules have been repeated at least three times even in this thread alone. Hint: Three criteria all need to apply, one of them is "Unresponsive to interaction with GM".

    Also why is there even a difference between afk farming or "unattentive farming" they get the same loot, they stand at the same spot, its the same thing. Its just different words.

    The difference is that one of them is done afk and one is not. The community has come up with these terms as there were no specific english words for this specific behaviour.

    "That's consistent with the policy ANet has stated."
    apparently not when you claim unattendive farming is somehow okay

    It is not "somehow ok", it is ok. Because the term inattentive farming was invented to differentiate the people who are not afk from the afk-farmers. if you are not afk, you can react to a GM, and have criteria #3 ("Unresponsive to interaction with GM") not apply to you. If you are afk it will apply to you.

    some quotes from anet GM's from reddit:

    "The game is made to be actively played"

    "You need to be active and involved when you gain benefits in the game. So "afking while meta", if it gives you a benefit, is not okay. The game was made to be played, actively, by a person directing the actions directly."

    It is funny how people sometimes pick out the stuff they want to read and leave out the stuff they don't want. I googled that statement and unsurprisingly you only quoted part of what the ArenaNet employee said and left the other part out. I don't know if that was intentional to give a false impression or if you just not understood the other sentences, so I will provide everyone here with the second pargraph and explain it, which changes the picture being painted:

    "As for when the Game Master contacted you: It was while you were in the labyrinth. Sadly, as anything I would state here would tip you or others off on our investigative process, I will not be able to give you minute details. What I can tell you, however, is that every day we investigate users to check if they are actively playing, and every day users react to us. There is ample time to react, there's never any problem is a user does react. "

    So he clearly says that they investigate people to check if they actively play, and that when they react, there is never any problem. Your understanding of "actively playing" clearly differs from ArenaNets understanding of actively playing, as reacting to a GM equals being active and is the opposite of being afk. That is also why "afking the meta" is not ok - because it means that someone is afk, and will not react to a GM. Long story short: If you react to a GM you are fine, as you are not afk. Actively playing does not mean you have to press buttons or move around.

    And that is not my opinion, it is the very clear and logical conclusion of the part of the GM statement that was left out (not just in this post, also in other posts by other people).

    YouTube “L2villagejester”.
    People using belittling wording like whining/qqing" are not taken seriously by me
    Same for people posting only to tell others not to post (“deal with it”-posts)

  • TallBarr.2184TallBarr.2184 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 12, 2018

    That clear things up thank you.

    Not being at computer and not responsive while doing anything that grants you rewards is not allowed
    Doing the same thing but with your headphones in your ears is fine beacuse you have your UI volume turned up to the max so u hear whenever someone messages you = Actively playing the game
    Not very logical to use the term "active" for responding to a message imo. I'm not english speaker but when someone tells me i have to be active it means i have to play the game, use skills manually, walk manually, not sit somewhere for hours letting ai do the work. Maybe they should ditch the whisper and use say chat instead.. maybe they were not so aware of their surroundings after all.. ooopss

    But if Anet is fine with it so be it.
    happy afk far... unattentive farming everyone.

  • this happened to me a month ago,i was at the keyboard while i was teleworking. gms suspended me for 72 hrs even though i responded and moved. i was manually doing my engi turrets as they came off cd when necessary. 5 different key strokes in different orders. and i was even manipulating my inventory and selling things with merchants and changing maps. so to me, they do things on a whim.

    they claimed i had 3rd party software running but i didnt have anything running aside from gw2. and they wouldnt provide proof of the suspected 3rd party software so that if i did unknowingly have something running, i could take care of it and remove it from my system. so that was helpful of them.

    i think instead of a whisper or a moving of the character they should spawn a dialogue box and that would require you to mouse click a separate chat window with just the gm. because when im teleworking i dont always look at my chat.

  • @Assassin X.8573 said:
    when im teleworking i dont always look at my chat.

    Then you probably shouldn't load up the game.

    The conditions under which ANet actually suspends are so generous that there are tons of threads with people complaining about botters, because other players can't tell the difference between scripted and non-scripted farming. All they ask is that one pays attention to whispers, not even those from players, just the ones from GMs which are in a very different color from the others.

    "Face the facts. Then act on them. It's ...the only doctrine I have to offer you, & it's harder than you'd think, because I swear humans seem hardwired to do anything but. Face the facts. Don't pray, don't wish, ...FACE THE FACTS. THEN act." — Quellcrist Falconer

  • Theros.1390Theros.1390 Member ✭✭✭

    @Assassin X.8573 said:
    this happened to me a month ago,i was at the keyboard while i was teleworking. gms suspended me for 72 hrs even though i responded and moved. i was manually doing my engi turrets as they came off cd when necessary.

    The GM probably punished you because you were playing during your working hours (lel)

  • @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

    @Assassin X.8573 said:
    when im teleworking i dont always look at my chat.

    Then you probably shouldn't load up the game.

    The conditions under which ANet actually suspends are so generous that there are tons of threads with people complaining about botters, because other players can't tell the difference between scripted and non-scripted farming. All they ask is that one pays attention to whispers, not even those from players, just the ones from GMs which are in a very different color from the others.

    @Assassin X.8573 said:
    gms suspended me for 72 hrs even though i responded and moved.

    i typed in local chat "that was weird, anyone here?" (knowing only GMs can move you) when i was moved because there was no whisper from a gm. also i was inside an instanced dungeon, so there was no one else there.

  • Sounds very familiar to a Reddit thread that garnered CS/GM responses.

  • DeWolfe.2174DeWolfe.2174 Member ✭✭✭

    TBH the defenders of gaming purity are far more toxic to the community than any unattentive farmer could be. The defenders are mostly driven by selfishness and a sense of entitlement. That it's "their game" and everyone has to play it their way. There just needs to be some sanity here and respect what others enjoy as their play style too. This games audience goes from adrenaline junky teens to casual grandma's in their 60's. There's going to be a very large difference in play style. Now, AFK farmers that haven't moved in hours and those botting, teleporting, etc. are an issue too.

    Everyone needs to chill out and remember it's just... a... game...!!!

  • @Assassin X.8573 said:

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

    @Assassin X.8573 said:
    when im teleworking i dont always look at my chat.

    Then you probably shouldn't load up the game.

    The conditions under which ANet actually suspends are so generous that there are tons of threads with people complaining about botters, because other players can't tell the difference between scripted and non-scripted farming. All they ask is that one pays attention to whispers, not even those from players, just the ones from GMs which are in a very different color from the others.

    @Assassin X.8573 said:
    gms suspended me for 72 hrs even though i responded and moved.

    i typed in local chat "that was weird, anyone here?" (knowing only GMs can move you) when i was moved because there was no whisper from a gm.

    Then appeal the decision to ANet. Typing in /say doesn't count as responding to a GM. They have strict protocols about when to suspend and it would be surprising if it turned out that a GM skipped the step of whispering. But if they did, ask them to overturn it and they almost certainly will.

    also i was inside an instanced dungeon, so there was no one else there.

    I'm not sure how that's relevant. GMs don't need a character to be present to initiate a chat or to move a player's toon. If their algorithms detected suspicious behavior, it wouldn't matter if it was instanced or non-instanced. The conditions are still the same: one can't be earning benefits while AFK.

    I know a fair number of people who load up GW2 while working, because their job is so undemanding that they have the time & attention to manage both. That part of the story is entirely plausible. However, the cutoff before ANet suspends is incredibly generous. They don't do it because someone missed a single message.

    In short: don't tell us; tell them.

    "Face the facts. Then act on them. It's ...the only doctrine I have to offer you, & it's harder than you'd think, because I swear humans seem hardwired to do anything but. Face the facts. Don't pray, don't wish, ...FACE THE FACTS. THEN act." — Quellcrist Falconer

  • Chichimec.9364Chichimec.9364 Member ✭✭
    edited November 26, 2018

    @Lord Kreegan.8123 said:
    I am ALWAYS seeing players teleport in to the vicinity of crafting resources (especially rich mineral nodes) to collect the resource and then instantly disappear. That problem has been around for a long time; has been reported many, many times; the offenders have been reported many, many times; and nothing gets done about it.
    Because it's a waste of time to report it, I don't bother anymore.

    This is not a sarcastic question but a genuine one - what is wrong with farming the permanent rich nodes like that? High end crafting is very resource intensive so I've done exactly this kind of collecting for iron ore and other needed resources. Personally I don't do it much anymore. It's boring to just port from node to node, so these days I generally go through the maps riding from permanent node to permanent node, doing events and grabbing other resources along the way. That's much more fun for me. Still, if I'm crafting something that needs a pile of specific ores I might go back to porting from node to node for a bit, just to speed up the process. If I do that, am I breaking any actual rules or game etiquette?

  • Dante.1763Dante.1763 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Chichimec.9364 said:

    @Lord Kreegan.8123 said:
    I am ALWAYS seeing players teleport in to the vicinity of crafting resources (especially rich mineral nodes) to collect the resource and then instantly disappear. That problem has been around for a long time; has been reported many, many times; the offenders have been reported many, many times; and nothing gets done about it.
    Because it's a waste of time to report it, I don't bother anymore.

    This is not a sarcastic question but a genuine one - what is wrong with farming the permanent rich nodes like that? High end crafting is very resource intensive so I've done exactly this kind of collecting for iron ore and other needed resources. Personally I don't do it much anymore. It's boring to just port from node to node, so these days I generally go through the maps riding from permanent node to permanent node, doing events and grabbing other resources along the way. That's much more fun for me. Still, if I'm crafting something that needs a pile of specific ores or timbers or whatever, I might go back to porting from node to node for a bit, just to speed up the process. If I do that, am I breaking any actual rules or game etiquette?

    the problem is the instant teleportation, its not like they logged out at the node, ive seen people teleport right into regular mithril nodes quite a bit these days too, and when you see the same character teleporting to different nodes in a short distance(which ive seen), its pretty obvious they arent real players.

    Ember Wandertooth(SB), Lucina Fallenflame(Weaver), Kianda Redpaw(Guardian), Kingslayer, Light in the Dark.
    Why Guild Wars is called Guild Wars

  • Chichimec.9364Chichimec.9364 Member ✭✭
    edited November 26, 2018

    @Dante.1763 said:
    ... ive seen people teleport right into regular mithril nodes quite a bit these days too, and when you see the same character teleporting to different nodes in a short distance(which ive seen), its pretty obvious they arent real players.

    Ah, thanks Dante. I think I understand my confusion now. I wasn't actually teleporting directly from node to node but was going to the nearest waypoint then heading over to the permanent node. When I was done, I would jump to the nearest waypoint for the next permanent node. What you are talking about seems to be jumping from regular node to regular node in the same immediate area without the use of waypoints. Found a reddit post that talks about that. Seems like that kind of direct node to node jumping can be class skills, connection glitches or some kind of hacking: https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/87giur/player_teleporting_to_nearest_gathering_node/

  • Dante.1763Dante.1763 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Chichimec.9364 said:

    @Dante.1763 said:
    ... ive seen people teleport right into regular mithril nodes quite a bit these days too, and when you see the same character teleporting to different nodes in a short distance(which ive seen), its pretty obvious they arent real players.

    Ah, thanks Dante. I think I understand my confusion now. I wasn't actually teleporting directly from node to node but was going to the nearest waypoint then heading over to the permanent node. When I was done, I would jump to the nearest waypoint for the next permanent node. What you are talking about seems to be jumping from regular node to regular node in the same immediate area without the use of waypoints. Found a reddit post that talks about that. Seems like that kind of direct node to node jumping can be class skills, connection glitches or some kind of hacking: https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/87giur/player_teleporting_to_nearest_gathering_node/

    Those all have animations, so its not that. The finish mining one node, and instantly appear at the other. No character movement, no skills, no effects, no weapons drawn, instant teleportation from the middle of one node to the middle of another outside of any of the ranges of teleportation skills.

    Ember Wandertooth(SB), Lucina Fallenflame(Weaver), Kianda Redpaw(Guardian), Kingslayer, Light in the Dark.
    Why Guild Wars is called Guild Wars

  • Please note that the post about gathering bots that was quoted some hours ago and caused a slight derail of this thread was almost a year old and still as irrelevant to the specific topic of afk-farming as in January 19th when it was first made ;) Those are actual bots / teleport hacks and are unrelated to what this thread is about.
    Thank you!

    YouTube “L2villagejester”.
    People using belittling wording like whining/qqing" are not taken seriously by me
    Same for people posting only to tell others not to post (“deal with it”-posts)

  • DeWolfe.2174DeWolfe.2174 Member ✭✭✭

    There's a big difference between teleport hacking the game and teleporting a single character around to different nodes, compared to parking alt characters at a node and character swapping them out to mine the node. Knowing the difference is important.

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