Can you guys please change axe 2?

This ability would be a lot better if it didn't root you into the animation and slide you forward so far with no control. It's unusable on a lot of enemies because you either end up sliding into the middle of area effects or, if the boss has a bad habit of posting up on the edge of a cliff (legendary choya I'm looking at you!), you can't use it without sliding off!

Can we just ditch this animation and replace it with just a whirl in place or at least do like you did with weakening charge on daredevil and make it so that it doesn't pull through the target?

I have similar complaints about it. My suggestion is to make it where you can only go where there is a path to, as in how the mechanics of Mesmer staff 2 works. As of making it to where you land in area effect, I have no problem with it since dodge/jaunt makes it very easy to evade the evil circles of death.

This so much.

I suggested making it similar to Weaver's Twist of Fate: you can choose whether you want to move (and change movement direction) during the animation or stay in place.

Side Note: As a power axe mirage, I'd also like LT's power damage to be increased just a little bit. K thx :grin:

Good stuff, guys. I just feel this animation is one of the only things that feels totally off about Mirage (I mean, aside from teleporting inside objects, through walls, floors, and ceilings, etc. - But that just comes with the territory!).

What I don't like about it the most is the delay between the charges. If they are to do anything, I hope they just make it one attack and buff it substantially.

@bart.3687 said:I suggested making it similar to Weaver's Twist of Fate: you can choose whether you want to move (and change movement direction) during the animation or stay in place.

Side Note: As a power axe mirage, I'd also like LT's power damage to be increased just a little bit. K thx :grin:

YES! I want so bad to spin like the ELE on my Mesmer.

@dontlook.1823 said:

@bart.3687 said:I suggested making it similar to Weaver's Twist of Fate: you can choose whether you want to move (and change movement direction) during the animation or stay in place.

Side Note: As a power axe mirage, I'd also like LT's power damage to be increased just a little bit. K thx :grin:

Well, I actually meant Twist's mechanics, not animation, because I find LT's current animation way too good to let go (it's one of the reasons why I like axe).

That said, I'm not saying I don't want to have Twist's animation somewhere on my mesmer; I do, badly. Just not on LT. Maybe on Sands Through Glass since it's an evasion move anyway?

But....you can already control the direction of axe 2. You just move your camera into the direction you want axe 2 to go. As for cliffs problems, I mean, if you are facing one, maybe it would just better to not spam axe 2 ?

I also think it would be too powerful to make it spin without moving. The weapon has to have some weakness. It spams clones, inflict a lot condis and you can do it while evading (with a whirl finisher effect). Let us not powercreep it too much, it is already very strong.

@flog.3485 said:But....you can already control the direction of axe 2. You just move your camera into the direction you want axe 2 to go. As for cliffs problems, I mean, if you are facing one, maybe it would just better to not spam axe 2 ?

I also think it would be too powerful to make it spin without moving. The weapon has to have some weakness. It spams clones, inflict a lot condis and you can do it while evading (with a whirl finisher effect). Let us not powercreep it too much, it is already very strong.

Yes, I understand that. But it would obviously be more convenient if you didn't have to kill your DPS rotation and primary form of clone generation under these circumstances. Further, they've already set the precedent for this with weakening charge on thief, which had a similar animation and now will not pass through the target, presumably for the reasons I've mentioned here. Also, previously, weakening charge allowed some degree of control over the distance traveled by adjusting the camera angle. So, obviously they've been dealing with these same issues on similar skills long before PoF release. Given that, I think it's a pretty reasonable request.

Strangely I've ended up liking not having to aim the camera in order to hit a targeted enemy - it is more fluid to play without having to rotate the camera - allows me to make plays like blinking behind an enemy and hitting axe 2 without having to aim, or even axe 3 into axe 2 without having to aim.

But I do agree when using near a cliff edge and it goes through your enemy so you fall off the edge... although in that situation best to just detarget/stay untargeted, and rotate manually.

Would be nice to have an optional checkbox toggle in the menu for skills like this - so players can choose between full camera control or auto direction on target.

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@flog.3485 said:But....you can already control the direction of axe 2. You just move your camera into the direction you want axe 2 to go. As for cliffs problems, I mean, if you are facing one, maybe it would just better to not spam axe 2 ?

I also think it would be too powerful to make it spin without moving. The weapon has to have some weakness. It spams clones, inflict a lot condis and you can do it while evading (with a whirl finisher effect). Let us not powercreep it too much, it is already very strong.

Hmm I understand what you are saying but I can't agree with you. I personally never had any problem with axe 2 skill. The cliff problem is so irrelevant as a case problem because it is a not a standard issue that you constantly run into.

It is a reasonable request but I still think it would make it too good. I don't want this skill to become just a even better version of deceptive evasion under mirage personally because the whole skill design of axe 2 is already DE on steroids.

My main complaint about axe 2 is that it's a non-evading, weak, animation locked skill in a game based around mobility and flexibility. Generally speaking, animation locked skills fall into one of two categories:

The first category is skills with baked in evades. This includes pistol whip, blurred frenzy, unrelenting assault, phase smash, surge of the mists, some ranger skills I can't remember, and a variety of others. These skills trade mobility and/or flexibility for the hybrid offense and defense that comes with an evading skill.

The other category is skills that are extremely powerful. This includes meteor shower, hundred blades, ring of warding, barrage, hunter's ward, and other various extremely high impact but animation locked skills. These skills trade mobility and flexibility for the very high reward if you properly set them up for successful execution.

Lingering thoughts fits neither of these categories. It doesn't have an evade, so you're vulnerable while casting it. However, it also has a fairly standard effect; far from the power level to put it near hunter's ward or meteor shower. This means that the risk vs reward ratio for this skills is completely out of whack. Using it is an extreme risk against a good player, but landing the whole thing doesn't really do anything notable.

That being said, putting an evade on this skill would probably be pretty ridiculous in terms of evasion power for axe mirage. A better solution would just be to remove the animation lock and let you move completely freely while using it.

@flog.3485 said:

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@flog.3485 said:But....you can already control the direction of axe 2. You just move your camera into the direction you want axe 2 to go. As for cliffs problems, I mean, if you are facing one, maybe it would just better to not spam axe 2 ?

I also think it would be too powerful to make it spin without moving. The weapon has to have some weakness. It spams clones, inflict a lot condis and you can do it while evading (with a whirl finisher effect). Let us not powercreep it too much, it is already very strong.

Just to point something out, you seem to be operating under the assumption that axe 2 evades. It does not.

@flog.3485 said:(...)I also think it would be too powerful to make it spin without moving. The weapon has to have some weakness. It spams clones, inflict a lot condis and you can do it while evading (with a whirl finisher effect). Let us not powercreep it too much, it is already very strong.

As Pyro said above, you seem to think that LT has evade frames. It doesn't. You could secure it with dodge aka mirage cloak if you really want to, but I'm not sure if it's a good idea to waste a dodge for it.Also, the skill itself is not that strong, especially in PvE. Damage wise, it is just a little bit stronger than Axe AA's 3rd part, Mirror Strikes (LT's damage coefficient is 1.2 while MS is 1.1. The amount of condi damage of these skills is similar too). LT has whirl finisher, but mesmer doesn't really have combo fields to make use of it (unless you go Glamours and Staff).Removing the animation lock would not make LT OP, it would make it less clunky.

@Pyroatheist.9031 said:

@flog.3485 said:

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@flog.3485 said:But....you can already control the direction of axe 2. You just move your camera into the direction you want axe 2 to go. As for cliffs problems, I mean, if you are facing one, maybe it would just better to not spam axe 2 ?

I also think it would be too powerful to make it spin without moving. The weapon has to have some weakness. It spams clones, inflict a lot condis and you can do it while evading (with a whirl finisher effect). Let us not powercreep it too much, it is already very strong.

I never said that axe 2 has an evade frame. I just pointed out that you can use the dodge button while using axe 2.

@bart.3687 said:

@flog.3485 said:(...)I also think it would be too powerful to make it spin without moving. The weapon has to have some weakness. It spams clones, inflict a lot condis and you can do it while evading (with a whirl finisher effect). Let us not powercreep it too much, it is already very strong.

Mesmer doesn't have much combo field but the other professions have plenty of those field for you you to make a use of them.

Edit: clarification.

@Pyroatheist.9031 said:My main complaint about axe 2 is that it's a non-evading, weak, animation locked skill in a game based around mobility and flexibility. Generally speaking, animation locked skills fall into one of two categories:

The first category is skills with baked in evades. This includes pistol whip, blurred frenzy, unrelenting assault, phase smash, surge of the mists, some ranger skills I can't remember, and a variety of others. These skills trade mobility and/or flexibility for the hybrid offense and defense that comes with an evading skill.

The other category is skills that are extremely powerful. This includes meteor shower, hundred blades, ring of warding, barrage, hunter's ward, and other various extremely high impact but animation locked skills. These skills trade mobility and flexibility for the very high reward if you properly set them up for successful execution.

Lingering thoughts fits neither of these categories. It doesn't have an evade, so you're vulnerable while casting it. However, it also has a fairly standard effect; far from the power level to put it near hunter's ward or meteor shower. This means that the risk vs reward ratio for this skills is completely out of whack. Using it is an extreme risk against a good player, but landing the whole thing doesn't really do anything notable.

That being said, putting an evade on this skill would probably be pretty ridiculous in terms of evasion power for axe mirage. A better solution would just be to remove the animation lock and let you move completely freely while using it.

Ok I can agree with that: kind of like how we can move freely with now with scepter ambush in comparison to the beginning where we were locked.

Weavers would love fewer restricted animations too, while you're at it.

If people have a problem with Axe 2's animation, why are they using it and not a sword. If you're asking to root yourself in a spot for some kind of flurry animation, Sword 2 has you covered... That's exactly what it does.

Personally, I love Axe 2 as a WvW player (free control would be nice, but it honestly wouldn't help it that much), heck I'm digging it as a decent escape in PvE. Not every skill needs to be about facetanking DPS.

@flog.3485 said:

@Pyroatheist.9031 said:

@flog.3485 said:

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@flog.3485 said:But....you can already control the direction of axe 2. You just move your camera into the direction you want axe 2 to go. As for cliffs problems, I mean, if you are facing one, maybe it would just better to not spam axe 2 ?

I also think it would be too powerful to make it spin without moving. The weapon has to have some weakness. It spams clones, inflict a lot condis and you can do it while evading (with a whirl finisher effect). Let us not powercreep it too much, it is already very strong.

Yeah I frequently dodge while spinning in axe 2 - pops out an extra clone with DE which synergises nicely straight into axe3+F1.

@Thothkepara.2539 said:If people have a problem with Axe 2's animation, why are they using it and not a sword. If you're asking to root yourself in a spot for some kind of flurry animation, Sword 2 has you covered... That's exactly what it does.

Personally, I love Axe 2 as a WvW player (free control would be nice, but it honestly wouldn't help it that much), heck I'm digging it as a decent escape in PvE. Not every skill needs to be about facetanking DPS.

If you're going to post snarky responses, at least have them make some sort of sense, huh? The suggestion for free control wouldn't hurt your current application one bit and you know perfectly well that sword is a power weapon while axe is a condi weapon.

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@"Thothkepara.2539" said:If people have a problem with Axe 2's animation, why are they using it and not a sword. If you're asking to root yourself in a spot for some kind of flurry animation, Sword 2 has you covered... That's exactly what it does.

Personally, I love Axe 2 as a WvW player (free control would be nice, but it honestly wouldn't help it that much), heck I'm digging it as a decent escape in PvE. Not every skill needs to be about facetanking DPS.

And it's not like axe 2 is much better than rooting yourself to the ground. Hurray, I'm slightly moving while locked into an animation without an evade frame. It's basically saying "hey, interrupt me or dump a big cc to get a reward!" Yeah, you can dodge while using it because mirage, but now you're just wasting endurance on protecting a garbage skill, congrats.

@Pyroatheist.9031 said:

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@"Thothkepara.2539" said:If people have a problem with Axe 2's animation, why are they using it and not a sword. If you're asking to root yourself in a spot for some kind of flurry animation, Sword 2 has you covered... That's exactly what it does.

Personally, I love Axe 2 as a WvW player (free control would be nice, but it honestly wouldn't help it that much), heck I'm digging it as a decent escape in PvE. Not every skill needs to be about facetanking DPS.

Actually you missed the part of synergy with DE, axe 3 and shatters - dodging during axe 2 isn't a waste of endurance in this situation because it sets up burst through DE. Even then it isn't garbage in terms of damage if you land similar torment stacks as a single shatter with mtd, nevermind the extremely low cooldown when traited. Personally I feel there is sufficient reward for sticking in an opponent's face with axe 2 and "wasting" endurance to cover cast it.

And if properly built for using sigils, runes, food and perma vigour, I never feel lacking for endurance having spent it on cover casting axe 2, heal, or whatever skill.

Anyway I'm not opposed to optional directional control.

Welcome to Self-Root Wars 2.

Us Warriors have been dealing with it since launch.