[Suggestion] Staff Rework

So I think we can all agree that staff needs a full top to bottom rework. The focus on it being a Mark dropping weapon makes it useless against objects and against targets that don’t walk into the giant green circles. The auto-attack is slow, and not a reliable projectile finisher and the damage on all the abilities are under whelming.My redesign is to place staff in a niche that we currently don’t have, a full support weapon. It should be balanced as such that it can be used for condition support or power support equally, but the main focus is to provide buffs for the group, debuff enemies, and still offer some zone control that the original weapon did well. I would keep the range, number of targets and all the radius’ the same.Without further ado:

Necrotic Grasp: First I would make it a full 100% combo projectile finisher. It would be on par with Rev. Hammer. Additionally I would take the damage up to around 300. Still less than most auto attack weapons, but with the combo finisher and the pierce affect it would still be competitive.
Damage: 300Life Force: 4%Number of Targets: 5PiercesCombo Finisher: Projectile 100%

Mark of Blood: Burls a ball of dark magic at a target area doing damage and then Inscribes a mark on the ground that bleeds enemies and provides regen for allies. Numbers of Bleeds are determined by the number of enemies hit by the mark. 2 bleeding default plus 2 per targets hit by mark. Allies in the mark siphon life with their attacks for 3 seconds.Projectile Damage: 200Mark Damage: 129So this would provide the staff with a little more damage and allow the projectile to do some damage initially to a target (or structure) and still use the marks that this weapon was built around. Increasing bleeds for targets in the mark will reward strategic play rather than just vomiting marks on cooldown and can make it a useful weapon for condition builds. Also, the life siphon can support a blood magic build and give additional life siphon for the group. It’s low cool down means it can help with group heals.

Chillblains: Summons a chilling vortex in a target area damaging enemies and chilling and poisoning foes. Allies in area vortex are granted Resistance.Duration: 4 seconds does 315 damage initially and 130 damage per pulse.
Generates 1% life per target hit.Chill: 4 sec plus 2 second per pulsePoison: 2 stacks plus 2 stacks per pulse.Resistance: 2 seconds plus 1 second per pulse.Combo Field PoisonAgain, this ability is still taking advantage of the AoE of the staff but changing the mark to a damaging AoE similar to Ele or Mesmer staff. It also serves as an additional life force generator. The staff needs it, especially for Scourge play.

Putrid Mark: Marks a foe damaging them and transferring all conditions on you to current target. After a short delay the Mark bursts and target takes additional damage and conditions on allies around target are transferred to enemy.Damage: 381 Initial damage 411 burst damageMark Timer: 2 secondsConditions removed: 3Combo Finisher: BlastThe Burst works like Daredevil's Pulmonary impact and is uncleansable. It's a single target ability and the damage should be higher because of this. The delay on it can create really interesting game play. Where allies will want to rush to the marked target if they have conditions on them, or a smart enemy would want to create distance to avoid cleansing their enemies.

Pestilence: Create an area that Fears enemies and inflicts Pestilence on them. After a short delay the Pestilence bursts doing damage and inflicting target with torment and target spreads the Pestilence to nearby targets. Allies are granted Might based on the amount of enemies feared.Damage: 107Pestilence Damage: 129 (240 Radius)Torment: 2Might: 2 plus 1 per target.Fear: 2 secondsRadius: 300Combo Field: DarkPestilence works similarly to Pulmonary Impact. Targets can’t cleanse it and will go off so it forces enemies to scatter or deal with the multiple damage bursts and torments going off. Both Putrid Mark and Pestilence changes the idea of a “Mark” being a triggered ground AoE to a Mark on the target. If You see an ally with the mark on them you know to stay away.

That’s it. All in all I tried to keep the staff as an AoE zone control weapon but with strong support options and some really unique damage features. It rewards strategic application of the Marks and offer much needed support through heals, condi cleanse, and buffs. Feedback is appreciated.

I like this idea, it makes staff into more then a circle-painting twig, although Putrid mark seems ridiculously powerful.Transfer ALL conditions seems much too powerful, if you also count the transfer from allies nearby...

@Lobo.1296 said:So I think we can all agree that staff needs a full top to bottom rework.

Nope, I disagree. The only thing that I could see would be that marks trigger on damagable objects like siege in WvW or chak eggs in Ogre Lane (Tangled Depths meta) but I can see pro's and cons about a change like that. Overall I'm entirely happy about Staff right now.

I will just leave this here....https://ibb.co/iqVx5n

@"Thustlewhumber.7416" said:I will just leave this here....https://ibb.co/iqVx5n

WvW with dmg boosters? That's otherwise fairly rare i would think. I've hit 20k+ with RS4 on lords. A bit skewed i would say.

I am the only one that felt the changes gamebreaking? The combo of damage+support for allies is just too strong. Not going to happen, imo.

Staff is perfectly fine within WvW, I just wish the marks proc'd on siege.

I dislike marks because they are too similar to traps, and they basically have the same purpose, without all the neat traits that go along with traps. They could be alot more useful if they had both an immediate (well-like) effect and left a traditional mark behind afterwards, this way they don't lose tactical play while also not being extremely underwhelming in actual combat - and its even worse in PvE than in PvP/WvW.

Staff needs some help, seriously needs some help. To the OP, i love the idea of having there be some kind of aoe attack at the location and the mark being inscribed after the fact. I think that it is a great idea and flavor for the staff. The necromancer channels the energy to an area for an effect and then the area is corrupted leaving a mark enemies can trigger. If the damage gets split between the attack and the mark, and the current functionality remains the same it would actually work really well. Then you could actually damage stationary targets with staff other than auto attacking with 1.

I would love to see the projectile track from attack 1. It's so slow most people can avoid it by side stepping back and forth, yet anyone with a bow gets much faster projectiles, and mesmers just get straight up auto damage on GS along with druids staff. Make the projectile do 33% less damage but track the target please.

so

Necrotic grasp:power scaling reduced to 50% of power from 66%. 100% projectile finisher

Mark of blood :when the mark appears it does half the damage and regen on attack then inscribes the mark. The mark does the other half of the damage and inscribes 2 stacks of bleed when triggered.

Chillblains:When the mark appears it does half the damage and the poison stacks then inscribes the mark. The mark does the other half of the damage and inscribes the chill when triggered.

Putrid mark:again, half the damage when the mark appears and has the blast finisher component (mark blasts into existence when created) and inscribes the mark. the mark does the second half of the damage and the condition transfer when triggered, conditions transferred to 1, transfers conditions of 5 allies standing within triggered location.

Reapers Mark:Half the damage when it apears, half the damage and the fear when it is triggered.

TraitsLesser mark of blood:applies the mark on the ground portion of the skill and not the earlier damaging component (so only the part that can be triggered, not the packet of damage beforehand, and only the bleed)

Soul Marks:only the inscribed portion of the mark is unblock-able, not the initial packet of damage. - This gives the best "balance" to the changes. Now necro's can only do half of the physical damage on mark triggers to foes blocking them AND the poison effect from chillblains is now blockable by warriors and guardians.

This would allow the marks to do some damage initially but more importantly it would make them useable in more situations. you can still do the same amount of damage with them (maybe tone down the damage by 5% so that if both packets crit and you have high ferocity you would only be looking at a 15% damage increase at most) but it would allow the necromancer to put out regen at will, blast finisher at will in any field and do some damage to say the ice creature in the snowblind fractal.

And there is no worry about lich form any more since there are no marks there.

side note, even if the damage is split 25%-75% but the regen is cast upon mark forming and the blast happens upon forming it would give the necro much much needed utility with the weapon.

the attacks could be called "mark of blood" and "mark of blood trigger"to differentiate them in the combat log.

This is a really good idea, i think i need to run with this.

Edit : removed base damage misnomer from necrotic grasp, changed power scaling to 50% of power.

Ill be honest I like your ideas for staff 1-3How ever staff 4 should remain as it is because it can be an instant self condi clear when needed. Some times you need to slap it down and know that it will go off instantly not take 2 second to arm then go all while at the same time you have to be near it in order to get the condi removal.Staff 5 should just be granted ammo.2 counts same recharge time.3 seconds between use.

Your functionality for what you proposed for staff 5 should be moved into shroud 5 skill instead applying torment into fear instead of immob while granting might based on the number of foes tethered / feared

@"Lexan.5930" said:Staff needs some help, seriously needs some help. To the OP, i love the idea of having there be some kind of aoe attack at the location and the mark being inscribed after the fact. I think that it is a great idea and flavor for the staff. The necromancer channels the energy to an area for an effect and then the area is corrupted leaving a mark enemies can trigger. If the damage gets split between the attack and the mark, and the current functionality remains the same it would actually work really well. Then you could actually damage stationary targets with staff other than auto attacking with 1.

I would love to see the projectile track from attack 1. It's so slow most people can avoid it by side stepping back and forth, yet anyone with a bow gets much faster projectiles, and mesmers just get straight up auto damage on GS along with druids staff. Make the projectile do 33% less damage but track the target please.

so

Necrotic grasp:skill base damage reduced by 33%, power scaling reduced by 25% of current. 100% projectile finisher

Mark of blood :when the mark appears it does half the damage and regen on attack then inscribes the mark. The mark does the other half of the damage and inscribes 2 stacks of bleed when triggered.

Chillblains:When the mark appears it does half the damage and the poison stacks then inscribes the mark. The mark does the other half of the damage and inscribes the chill when triggered.

Putrid mark:again, half the damage when the mark appears and has the blast finisher component (mark blasts into existence when created) and inscribes the mark. the mark does the second half of the damage and the condition transfer when triggered, conditions transferred to 1, transfers conditions of 5 allies standing within triggered location.

Reapers Mark:Half the damage when it apears, half the damage and the fear when it is triggered.

TraitsLesser mark of blood:applies the mark on the ground portion of the skill and not the earlier damaging component (so only the part that can be triggered, not the packet of damage beforehand, and only the bleed)

Soul Marks:only the inscribed portion of the mark is unblock-able, not the initial packet of damage. - This gives the best "balance" to the changes. Now necro's can only do half of the physical damage on mark triggers to foes blocking them AND the poison effect from chillblains is now blockable by warriors and guardians.

This would allow the marks to do some damage initially but more importantly it would make them useable in more situations. you can still do the same amount of damage with them (maybe tone down the damage by 5% so that if both packets crit and you have high ferocity you would only be looking at a 15% damage increase at most) but it would allow the necromancer to put out regen at will, blast finisher at will in any field and do some damage to say the ice creature in the snowblind fractal.

And there is no worry about lich form any more since there are no marks there.

side note, even if the damage is split 25%-75% but the regen is cast upon mark forming and the blast happens upon forming it would give the necro much much needed utility with the weapon.

the attacks could be called "mark of blood" and "mark of blood trigger"to differentiate them in the combat log.

This is a really good idea, i think i need to run with this.

Why do you think marks need to be toned down in damage in the first place? This half split function of the staff makes it kind of useless. The marks are fine as they are at most they could use charges and a lower cooldown at most. Only putrid mark deals a significant amount of damage the others do next to nothing in strike damage. Staff is a utility weapon usually only used for area denial, life force gain, and condi xfer.

If traiting the marks not only made them unblockable but unavoidable meaning you couldnt dodge the damage when going over them I would agree with your proposal. But thats not the case.

@Toll Booth Willie.6723 said:

@"Thustlewhumber.7416" said:I will just leave this here....

https://ibb.co/iqVx5n

Edited due to incoming Anet nerfs.

skill base damage reduced by 33%, power scaling reduced by 25% of current.Just a note but power skills have no base damage + scaling, only scaling.

so where is a mobility skill or a evade/block/invuln? Just putting 5 dmg skills on a weapon is what anet failed at by creating this meme class in 2012

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@"Lexan.5930" said:Staff needs some help, seriously needs some help. To the OP, i love the idea of having there be some kind of aoe attack at the location and the mark being inscribed after the fact. I think that it is a great idea and flavor for the staff. The necromancer channels the energy to an area for an effect and then the area is corrupted leaving a mark enemies can trigger. If the damage gets split between the attack and the mark, and the current functionality remains the same it would actually work really well. Then you could actually damage stationary targets with staff other than auto attacking with 1.

I would love to see the projectile track from attack 1. It's so slow most people can avoid it by side stepping back and forth, yet anyone with a bow gets much faster projectiles, and mesmers just get straight up auto damage on GS along with druids staff. Make the projectile do 33% less damage but track the target please.

so

Necrotic grasp:

skill base damage reduced by 33%, power scaling reduced by 25% of current. 100% projectile finisher

Mark of blood :

when the mark appears it does half the damage and regen on attack then inscribes the mark. The mark does the other half of the damage and inscribes 2 stacks of bleed when triggered.

Chillblains:

When the mark appears it does half the damage and the poison stacks then inscribes the mark. The mark does the other half of the damage and inscribes the chill when triggered.

Putrid mark:

again, half the damage when the mark appears and has the blast finisher component (mark blasts into existence when created) and inscribes the mark. the mark does the second half of the damage and the condition transfer when triggered, conditions transferred to 1, transfers conditions of 5 allies standing within triggered location.

Reapers Mark:

Half the damage when it apears, half the damage and the fear when it is triggered.

Traits

Lesser mark of blood:

applies the mark on the ground portion of the skill and not the earlier damaging component (so only the part that can be triggered, not the packet of damage beforehand, and only the bleed)

Soul Marks:

only the inscribed portion of the mark is unblock-able, not the initial packet of damage. - This gives the best "balance" to the changes. Now necro's can only do half of the physical damage on mark triggers to foes blocking them AND the poison effect from chillblains is now blockable by warriors and guardians.

This would allow the marks to do some damage initially but more importantly it would make them useable in more situations. you can still do the same amount of damage with them (maybe tone down the damage by 5% so that if both packets crit and you have high ferocity you would only be looking at a 15% damage increase at most) but it would allow the necromancer to put out regen at will, blast finisher at will in any field and do some damage to say the ice creature in the snowblind fractal.

And there is no worry about lich form any more since there are no marks there.

side note, even if the damage is split 25%-75% but the regen is cast upon mark forming and the blast happens upon forming it would give the necro much much needed utility with the weapon.

the attacks could be called

"mark of blood"

and

"mark of blood trigger"

to differentiate them in the combat log.

This is a really good idea, i think i need to run with this.

the toning down of staff 1 was intended to give it homing and a 100% projectile finisher to combo off of the fields that necro can create.

the mark spitting damage allows for the mark to do damage upon creation and have some effect upon creation. this allows the utility weapon to have even more utility, in fact it lacks a lot of utility, while not giving it too many more abilities than it already has. This change would give necro

• a consistent damage packet to proc traits and sigils, with minor pressure since the damage of most marks is so small, that will definatly hit certain enemies that are stationary and have below ground hit boxes (ie. snowblind fractal)
• a reliable and on demand blast finisher that can combo with the fields necro's can make
• keeps the flavor of the weapon as an area deny, mostly triggered, skills weapon
• would make the staff much more fun to play

@Sublimatio.6981 said:so where is a mobility skill or a evade/block/invuln? Just putting 5 dmg skills on a weapon is what anet failed at by creating this meme class in 2012

there are no mobility, evade, block or invuln skills on any necro main hand weapon. there are no evade, block or invuln necro skills or traits at all. There probably never will be. the lack of options for necro is a reason why some tweaks to staff would be welcomed but not game breaking or even class breaking.

@Lexan.5930 said:

@Sublimatio.6981 said:so where is a mobility skill or a evade/block/invuln? Just putting 5 dmg skills on a weapon is what anet failed at by creating this meme class in 2012

But the lack of mobility and active defense is the big issue of this class. I anticipated if you wanted to rework staff you would aim to fix the class a bit with it. Btw there is not active defense or mobility not only on main hand weapon but not even offhand weapons.

Necro issues that need to be fixed by trait and weapon/utility skill alterations:

• lack of mobility
• lack of active defense
• lack of blast finishers
• lack of a panic button (invulnerability on longer cd)
• subpar dps

These things are what every other class has access to, some more than others - but everyone has some amount in order to make use of the combat system and combo system. Only necro is a cripple and forced to facetank every attack passively, not allowing any player to actively avoid damage like you could on any other class. It creates a problem, because the entire class is stripped down of potential (for example a newbie thief player can be slow and clueless, but if the player is very skilled he can do wonders with numerous shadowstep combos, stealth blasting, rewarding burst damage, ability to actively avoid incoming oneshot attacks all while having superior sustain if they take Invigorating Precision - literal invulnerability. - all of this not applicable to necro players, because there's not much to work with within the class abilities). So if you are reworking weapon skills, keep in mind why does it need reworking.

@"Thustlewhumber.7416" said:I will just leave this here....https://ibb.co/iqVx5n

Wtf is this. U running around full zerker? Hopefully not on my server.If not, thanks for your baggy every time i meet you.And good luck and byebye from my guard, that will reflect you.But for real. That has to be full zerker with 25 might.And thats pretty bad, one hit from any source and youre dead

@Nimon.7840 said:

@"Thustlewhumber.7416" said:I will just leave this here....

https://ibb.co/iqVx5n

Could be defiant broken lord too.

@Sublimatio.6981 said:

@Lexan.5930 said:

@Sublimatio.6981 said:so where is a mobility skill or a evade/block/invuln? Just putting 5 dmg skills on a weapon is what anet failed at by creating this meme class in 2012

• lack of mobility
• lack of active defense
• lack of blast finishers
• lack of a panic button (invulnerability on longer cd)
• subpar dps

I agree that necro needs more utility on staff and more mobility would always be nice. I dont think anet will give necro a lot of movment ability because they think we are too oppressive at locations to begin with.

Changing marks to have some of thier effect and damage apear upon creation/cast would help necro with utility while not breaking class flavor and mechanics.

@Lobo.1296 said:So I think we can all agree that staff needs a full top to bottom rework. The focus on it being a Mark dropping weapon makes it useless against objects and against targets that don’t walk into the giant green circles. The auto-attack is slow, and not a reliable projectile finisher and the damage on all the abilities are under whelming.My redesign is to place staff in a niche that we currently don’t have, a full support weapon. It should be balanced as such that it can be used for condition support or power support equally, but the main focus is to provide buffs for the group, debuff enemies, and still offer some zone control that the original weapon did well. I would keep the range, number of targets and all the radius’ the same.Without further ado:

Necrotic Grasp: First I would make it a full 100% combo projectile finisher. It would be on par with Rev. Hammer. Additionally I would take the damage up to around 300. Still less than most auto attack weapons, but with the combo finisher and the pierce affect it would still be competitive.

Damage: 300Life Force: 4%Number of Targets: 5PiercesCombo Finisher: Projectile 100%

Mark of Blood: Burls a ball of dark magic at a target area doing damage and then Inscribes a mark on the ground that bleeds enemies and provides regen for allies. Numbers of Bleeds are determined by the number of enemies hit by the mark. 2 bleeding default plus 2 per targets hit by mark. Allies in the mark siphon life with their attacks for 3 seconds.Projectile Damage: 200Mark Damage: 129So this would provide the staff with a little more damage and allow the projectile to do some damage initially to a target (or structure) and still use the marks that this weapon was built around. Increasing bleeds for targets in the mark will reward strategic play rather than just vomiting marks on cooldown and can make it a useful weapon for condition builds. Also, the life siphon can support a blood magic build and give additional life siphon for the group. It’s low cool down means it can help with group heals.

Chillblains: Summons a chilling vortex in a target area damaging enemies and chilling and poisoning foes. Allies in area vortex are granted Resistance.Duration: 4 seconds does 315 damage initially and 130 damage per pulse.

Generates 1% life per target hit.Chill: 4 sec plus 2 second per pulsePoison: 2 stacks plus 2 stacks per pulse.Resistance: 2 seconds plus 1 second per pulse.Combo Field PoisonAgain, this ability is still taking advantage of the AoE of the staff but changing the mark to a damaging AoE similar to Ele or Mesmer staff. It also serves as an additional life force generator. The staff needs it, especially for Scourge play.

Putrid Mark: Marks a foe damaging them and transferring all conditions on you to current target. After a short delay the Mark bursts and target takes additional damage and conditions on allies around target are transferred to enemy.Damage: 381 Initial damage 411 burst damageMark Timer: 2 secondsConditions removed: 3Combo Finisher: BlastThe Burst works like Daredevil's Pulmonary impact and is uncleansable. It's a single target ability and the damage should be higher because of this. The delay on it can create really interesting game play. Where allies will want to rush to the marked target if they have conditions on them, or a smart enemy would want to create distance to avoid cleansing their enemies.

Pestilence: Create an area that Fears enemies and inflicts Pestilence on them. After a short delay the Pestilence bursts doing damage and inflicting target with torment and target spreads the Pestilence to nearby targets. Allies are granted Might based on the amount of enemies feared.Damage: 107Pestilence Damage: 129 (240 Radius)Torment: 2Might: 2 plus 1 per target.Fear: 2 secondsRadius: 300Combo Field: DarkPestilence works similarly to Pulmonary Impact. Targets can’t cleanse it and will go off so it forces enemies to scatter or deal with the multiple damage bursts and torments going off. Both Putrid Mark and Pestilence changes the idea of a “Mark” being a triggered ground AoE to a Mark on the target. If You see an ally with the mark on them you know to stay away.

That’s it. All in all I tried to keep the staff as an AoE zone control weapon but with strong support options and some really unique damage features. It rewards strategic application of the Marks and offer much needed support through heals, condi cleanse, and buffs. Feedback is appreciated.

Multiple thumbs up. I wish you’d get hired at anet. Staff is pretty bad right now. I love how you’re trying to reward strategic gameplay. My biggest issue with the entire concept of scourge mechanics is just how low the skill cap is for 90% effective gameplay. Classes are fun when they have skillcaps that require skill to use and force enemies to react or pay. I wish these changes could happen.