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Switching characters while waiting for the match to start should be stopped in the next patch!


Sombra.3246

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One thing I have been noticing is that a lot of times when you get a team for ranked PvP some of the players switch their characters depending on what their team mates are playing or what the other team is playing.

This allows more experienced players to take advantage of this situation and make very unbalanced team that can easily wipe out the other team. Many casual players or new players do not do this because either they do not know that this is possible or because they do think what class you play will have an effect. But the truth is this has a huge effect on the matches.

I have been up against teams that are hard to counter unless you have a strong team balanced team. For example, a team with 3 scourges, 1 holosmith and 1 firebrand.It is bad enough that we can only duo in ranked PvP and get our other team mates at random.

You have to have been blessed with so much luck by the 6 gods to be able to maintain platinum rank or above (a minor miracle).

In any case I just wanted to start a discussion on this topic. Hopefully the devs will see it and do something about this problem.Please feel free to leave your comments and suggestions down bellow.

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@Sombra.3246 said:One thing I have been noticing is that a lot of times when you get a team for ranked PvP some of the players switch their characters depending on what their team mates are playing or what the other team is playing.

This allows more experienced players to take advantage of this situation and make very unbalanced team that can easily wipe out the other team. Many casual players or new players do not do this because either they do not know that this is possible or because they do think what class you play will have an effect. But the truth is this has a huge effect on the matches.

I have been up against teams that are hard to counter unless you have a strong team balanced team. For example, a team with 3 scourges, 1 holosmith and 1 firebrand.It is bad enough that we can only duo in ranked PvP and get our other team mates at random.

You have to have been blessed with so much luck by the 6 gods to be able to maintain platinum rank or above (a minor miracle).

In any case I just wanted to start a discussion on this topic. Hopefully the devs will see it and do something about this problem.Please feel free to leave your comments and suggestions down bellow.

i had my problems with that aswell... but now im thinking like it adds an advanced strategical character to it and yes, pvp vets profit more from it. AND it gives u chance to compensate a bad (automated) matchmaking draft. so overall its rather a win for everyone.

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If anything this should not only be allowed but be consecrated as part of matchmaking, by adding a screen/timer for people to draft pick their classes.If the game mode is to ever have a proper balance it has to be done not through perfectly even numbers (which is bland, and pretty much impossible) but through hard and soft counters.For counter-plays to work, people need to be informed and able to pick proper counters to the enemy. Hence draft picks.If anything, more than any other issue with pvp, the inability to have proper class selection and proper counter plays is the main problem with gw2 pvp.

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@ReaverKane.7598 said:If anything this should not only be allowed but be consecrated as part of matchmaking, by adding a screen/timer for people to draft pick their classes.If the game mode is to ever have a proper balance it has to be done not through perfectly even numbers (which is bland, and pretty much impossible) but through hard and soft counters.For counter-plays to work, people need to be informed and able to pick proper counters to the enemy. Hence draft picks.If anything, more than any other issue with pvp, the inability to have proper class selection and proper counter plays is the main problem with gw2 pvp.

Good points.

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The matchmaker actually works OK. (You will never get it perfect all the time)It´s long overdue that classes are locked on Q and class MMR is used as well as class leaderboards are opened ... This will also improve the matchmakers accuracy and add motivation to players for playing their beloved class ...

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Lol at all these people defending class swapping. Lets be real here. You que on revenant or ele to minimize the chances of you getting a liability on your team (and increasing that chance for the enemy). You look at your comp to see if you have a bunkerbrand or scourge. If you have a bunkerbrand, go scourge, if you don't have a bunker brand, go bunkerbrand. Ideally you get the Firebrand-scourge-scourge lottery and decimate the enemy team. There is purely used to class stack and skew the match in your favor. It's exploitative.

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@Wichidi.9281 said:i disagree. u should still be able to swap anytime b4 match starts. the problem is just the balance. its been 6 months we having the most annoying and worst balance ever lol. if anet was able to balance the game this wouldnt be an issue.

Why do people say that? It's demonstrably false. Post HoT was the defacto worse balance period ever. It was so bad that there's people rightfully embarrassed by the memory of that period. It was one of the big motives behind deflating most of the momentum PvP had gained pre-HoT.There were two classes (Tempest and Chronomancer) that were literally unkillable, but also impotent to kill anyone, so basically with 2-3 of those in each team, the match would be pretty much decided in the first couple seconds of the match, by who got the most points before everything got permanently contested, either that or it would become a Deathmatch game between a fraction of the teams.It took them i think two seasons to sort it out (consider also that the first season was 2-3 months after HoT released, so that dragged on for a while). Compared to a class that is strong, but can be easily countered, that loses as often as it wins since it's strong but not unbeatable, i'd say we're far from having the worse balance ever.

@"Wolfric.9380" said:The matchmaker actually works OK. (You will never get it perfect all the time)It´s long overdue that classes are locked on Q and class MMR is used as well as class leaderboards are opened ... This will also improve the matchmakers accuracy and add motivation to players for playing their beloved class ...You say that now, but if that was the case, you'd be bawling your eyes out for balance issues, and whatnot. That's exactly the worse case scenario.First you'd have people that are actual legend level, but that don't play a couple classes, playing on those classes for easy pickings, since they'd be on a lower rank with those.Then there would be the eventual follow up of restricting MMR by ELite spec.Then the issue that each player would potentially have 9-27 different ranks in 9-27 different leagues. Which would cause you to have to re-up your MMR with every new class you want to play to obtain the rewards (because it would be absurd if you could gain the rank up rewards with each class/elite).Also, if everyone plays only with their "best" class, what happens is, whenever there's a mid-season upset in the balance that nerfs your class a lot, you'll either be forced to play with a seriously gimped class, or have to climb back with a different one, without rewards on the way.Yeah, like i said in two weeks after they granted your wish you'd be here bawling your eyes out for a rollback.@Ikki.7891 said:

@Vallun.2071 said:If you can only play one class, why can't you just compensate for not being able to multiclass by being better at that one class?

That's crazy, why would someone want to master their main.Because adapting to the opponent is pretty much 2/3s of this kind of game type's strategical component.

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@jul.7602 said:Lol at all these people defending class swapping. Lets be real here. You que on revenant or ele to minimize the chances of you getting a liability on your team (and increasing that chance for the enemy). You look at your comp to see if you have a bunkerbrand or scourge. If you have a bunkerbrand, go scourge, if you don't have a bunker brand, go bunkerbrand. Ideally you get the Firebrand-scourge-scourge lottery and decimate the enemy team. There is purely used to class stack and skew the match in your favor. It's exploitative.

It is only a problem because balance sucks a.s.s. Pre pof there was no point in abusing this because there weren't any classes you didn't want on your team and there weren't any you really wanted to stack. It is a balance problem, not a system problem and and changing it would just be the equivalent of using a s.h.i.t.t.y. diaper as a band-aid.

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@jul.7602 said:Lol at all these people defending class swapping. Lets be real here. You que on revenant or ele to minimize the chances of you getting a liability on your team (and increasing that chance for the enemy). You look at your comp to see if you have a bunkerbrand or scourge. If you have a bunkerbrand, go scourge, if you don't have a bunker brand, go bunkerbrand. Ideally you get the Firebrand-scourge-scourge lottery and decimate the enemy team. There is purely used to class stack and skew the match in your favor. It's exploitative.

  1. Learning more than 1 class and what your team needs is game awareness and strategy. So sorry some of us play every class and can beat you with any.

  2. All of PvP is a scourge firebrand lottery regardless of class swaps because of bad balance. Logic 0/10.

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@ReaverKane.7598 said:

@Wichidi.9281 said:i disagree. u should still be able to swap anytime b4 match starts. the problem is just the balance. its been 6 months we having the most annoying and
worst balance ever
lol. if anet was able to balance the game this wouldnt be an issue.

Why do people say that? It's demonstrably
false
. Post HoT was the defacto worse balance period ever. It was so bad that there's people rightfully embarrassed by the memory of that period. It was one of the big motives behind deflating most of the momentum PvP had gained pre-HoT.There were two classes (Tempest and Chronomancer) that were literally unkillable, but also impotent to kill anyone, so basically with 2-3 of those in each team, the match would be pretty much decided in the first couple seconds of the match, by who got the most points before everything got permanently contested, either that or it would become a Deathmatch game between a fraction of the teams.It took them i think two seasons to sort it out (consider also that the first season was 2-3 months after HoT released, so that dragged on for a while). Compared to a class that is strong, but can be easily countered, that loses as often as it wins since it's strong but not unbeatable, i'd say we're far from having the worse balance ever.

wrong. post HOT we had many viable builds. druid, rev, ele, scrapper, reaper, chrono. druid was a good support and so was ele. u could win without a reaper or scrapper or ele etc. those 6 builds were dominating pvp no question BUT none of those builds were INDISPENSABLE

today scourge and firebrand are indispensable

u can have as many spellbreakers mirages druids holos as u want. (basically all the meta builds) but if the enemy team has 1 firebrand and 2 scourges u simply have a huge disatvantage.

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The community tends to vastly over-estimate the effect of class choice in PvP, so this is rarely the advantage that people think it is. Being able to multi-class can be an advantage in some games, but often people swap to an alt they don’t play as well as they think they do and offset the theoretical advantage.

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Matchmaking isn't the best. Class switching gives the player atleast a little bit of control over the RNG match ups and also allows you to stop liabilities on your team such as revenant.

It would be entirely different if we had a balance patch to bring scourge/firebrand down a notch and to make Rev viable in PvP... But as it stands, you don't want Rev on your team and you need a Firebrand/Scourge comp.

So realistically, all we need is a decent balance patch.

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Class switching adds skill to the game. I want an easier option to swap mid-game so anyone can easily switch against bad comps.

Knowing the best class to switch to against the enemy comp is very hard, look how much it improves Overwatch since they allow free switching mid game.

Why should games be dictated solely by matchmaking? I want more control on the outcome of the match if it requires skill, which character switching absolutely does. It allows you to counter cancer comps and speculate what classes work best with your team and against the enemies, while adding more variety.

You say more experienced players take advantage of this, what's wrong with that? It's only unbalanced if a few are allowed to do it, except absolutely everyone has access to this. More experienced players SHOULD win, because they are more experienced.

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@reikken.4961 said:

@Vallun.2071 said:If you can only play one class, why can't you just compensate for not being able to multiclass by being better at that one class?

yeah, thisI only play one class in ranked. I adjust to team comps by making build adjustments

Yeah, and you won't climb very high doing that. You'll do much better knowing your classes strengths and weaknesses rather then forcing it in every comp. Not every class can or should adapt to every weakness. A lot of the time swapping is just better.

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@Wichidi.9281 said:

@Wichidi.9281 said:i disagree. u should still be able to swap anytime b4 match starts. the problem is just the balance. its been 6 months we having the most annoying and
worst balance ever
lol. if anet was able to balance the game this wouldnt be an issue.

Why do people say that? It's demonstrably
false
. Post HoT was the defacto worse balance period ever. It was so bad that there's people rightfully embarrassed by the memory of that period. It was one of the big motives behind deflating most of the momentum PvP had gained pre-HoT.There were two classes (Tempest and Chronomancer) that were literally unkillable, but also impotent to kill anyone, so basically with 2-3 of those in each team, the match would be pretty much decided in the first couple seconds of the match, by who got the most points before everything got permanently contested, either that or it would become a Deathmatch game between a fraction of the teams.It took them i think two seasons to sort it out (consider also that the first season was 2-3 months after HoT released, so that dragged on for a while). Compared to a class that is strong, but can be easily countered, that loses as often as it wins since it's strong but not unbeatable, i'd say we're far from having the worse balance ever.

wrong. post HOT we had many viable builds. druid, rev, ele, scrapper, reaper, chrono. druid was a good support and so was ele. u could win without a reaper or scrapper or ele etc. those 6 builds were dominating pvp no question BUT none of those builds were INDISPENSABLE

today scourge and firebrand are indispensable

u can have as many spellbreakers mirages druids holos as u want. (basically all the meta builds) but if the enemy team has 1 firebrand and 2 scourges u simply have a huge disatvantage.

Dude, stop channeling Trump. "WRONG", lol, that's sad man...

Post HoT, the first couple of seasons just after HoT release, were utter crap, dominated by tempests and chronos far worse than scourge or firebrand ever do. And unlike scourge and firebrand, they couldn't be countered. If you didn't play then, or don't remember, ok. I do, because it completely took me off PvP for a loong ass time.And as for your argument, there's even more build variety now. The only difference between now and then, is that Scourge and Firebrand can both be outplayed and defeated.A tiny refresher of how bad it was:

This was the time in the game where teams were rage quiting because how crappy the meta was.

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@shippage.1983 said:

@reikken.4961 said:yeah, thisI only play one class in ranked. I adjust to team comps by making build adjustments

Yeah, and you won't climb very high doing that. You'll do much better knowing your classes strengths and weaknesses rather then forcing it in every comp. Not every class can or should adapt to every weakness. A lot of the time swapping is just better.

well, I'm currently at 1650 after 30 games and with a strong upward trend on my rating, and I'm not that good. So I'd say you can climb pretty high with a single class.And a lot of top players play only one class, swapping out a skill or two or a trait or a rune game by game.

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@ReaverKane.7598 said:

@Wichidi.9281 said:i disagree. u should still be able to swap anytime b4 match starts. the problem is just the balance. its been 6 months we having the most annoying and
worst balance ever
lol. if anet was able to balance the game this wouldnt be an issue.

Why do people say that? It's demonstrably
false
. Post HoT was the defacto worse balance period ever. It was so bad that there's people rightfully embarrassed by the memory of that period. It was one of the big motives behind deflating most of the momentum PvP had gained pre-HoT.There were two classes (Tempest and Chronomancer) that were literally unkillable, but also impotent to kill anyone, so basically with 2-3 of those in each team, the match would be pretty much decided in the first couple seconds of the match, by who got the most points before everything got permanently contested, either that or it would become a Deathmatch game between a fraction of the teams.It took them i think two seasons to sort it out (consider also that the first season was 2-3 months after HoT released, so that dragged on for a while). Compared to a class that is strong, but can be easily countered, that loses as often as it wins since it's strong but not unbeatable, i'd say we're far from having the worse balance ever.

wrong. post HOT we had many viable builds. druid, rev, ele, scrapper, reaper, chrono. druid was a good support and so was ele. u could win without a reaper or scrapper or ele etc. those 6 builds were dominating pvp no question BUT none of those builds were INDISPENSABLE

today scourge and firebrand are indispensable

u can have as many spellbreakers mirages druids holos as u want. (basically all the meta builds) but if the enemy team has 1 firebrand and 2 scourges u simply have a huge disatvantage.

Dude, stop channeling Trump. "WRONG", lol, that's sad man...

Post HoT, the first couple of seasons just after HoT release, were utter crap, dominated by tempests and chronos far worse than scourge or firebrand ever do. And unlike scourge and firebrand, they couldn't be countered. If you didn't play then, or don't remember, ok. I do, because it completely took me off PvP for a loong kitten time.And as for your argument, there's even more build variety
now
. The only difference between now and then, is that Scourge and Firebrand can both be outplayed and defeated.A tiny refresher of how bad it was:

This was the time in the game where teams were rage quiting because how crappy the meta was.

To be fair, at the very start of HoT when minstrel amulet was still around, every class got at least some pro league play. But as the meta settled, people quickly figured out there was no point to playing anything but bunk mes, condi rev, and to a lesser extent tempest.

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