What are you talking about? The balance patch today was fantastic. Didn't buff scourges/mirage/FB again. Didn't nerf core builds again. Definitely better than the December patch. Step in the right direction.
@primatos.5413 said:
So be it .. if doing nothing means they´re not screwing things up more and more this seems the best way to handle the overall issues .. sad but true
Idk .. there is a way i guess.. it´s anet .. they will find one .. but u´r right .. clown builds all over the place .. tanky as hell butt hitting like trucks .. ridiculous bs
@primatos.5413 said:
So be it .. if doing nothing means they´re not screwing things up more and more this seems the best way to handle the overall issues .. sad but true
How much worse can it possibly be?!
Remember the last patch and it being a condition "nerf" patch hahaha yet things just got worse. That sort of thing, because fixing the issue by maybe just lowering the condi damage just wouln't work i guess.
@Emtiarbi.3281 said:
Are you guys going to give us any sneak peak of the Balance Patch?
That would mean players would actually have a chance to give feedback. We all know that's not allowed. That and they don't want to hear all the complaints about the FB buffs and more nerfs to core abilities to sell xpacs.
@Karl McLain.5604 said:
Assuming that all goes well and we don't have any unexpected issues, the next balance update is scheduled for February 6th.
That's good news. Any hint of a preview? Not expecting heavy details would just be nice to know which specs are being toned down / which are being buffed.
@Karl McLain.5604 said:
Assuming that all goes well and we don't have any unexpected issues, the next balance update is scheduled for February 6th.
Are you guys going to give us any sneak peak of the Balance Patch?
We are planning PvP/WvW splits, changes to the Confusion condition, regeneration effectiveness prioritization, boon/condition conversion table changes... PLUS MORE!! There are some mesmer changes we're excited about and hope to talk them about in more detail as we draw nearer to the update. Stay tuned!
@Karl McLain.5604 said:
Assuming that all goes well and we don't have any unexpected issues, the next balance update is scheduled for February 6th.
Are you guys going to give us any sneak peak of the Balance Patch?
We are planning PvP/WvW splits, changes to the Confusion condition, regeneration effectiveness prioritization, boon/condition conversion table changes... PLUS MORE!! There are some mesmer changes we're excited about and hope to talk them about in more detail as we draw nearer to the update. Stay tuned!
-Karl
yay!
also...can you PLEASE give Deadeye a source of stability?
for a class whose weapon (rifle) removes all mobility, its sad the class has no stability skills at all. specially with the knockdown spam.
or at least protection =/ (maybe something similar to engineer's flamethrower grandmaster skill. where it pulses stability)
@Karl McLain.5604 said:
Assuming that all goes well and we don't have any unexpected issues, the next balance update is scheduled for February 6th.
Are you guys going to give us any sneak peak of the Balance Patch?
We are planning PvP/WvW splits, changes to the Confusion condition, regeneration effectiveness prioritization, boon/condition conversion table changes... PLUS MORE!! There are some mesmer changes we're excited about and hope to talk them about in more detail as we draw nearer to the update. Stay tuned!
-Karl
That's exciting news to hear. So regeneration effectiveness prioritization meaning regeneration application is prioritized based on healing power? If that's the case I wonder how that'll work with traits like Cleansing Water if the Ele has low healing power. Playing something like Ventari Rev that has so many healing modifiers makes regeneration much more potent, so it'd be nice to have it stick on the targets rather than get overwritten.
@Karl McLain.5604 said:
Assuming that all goes well and we don't have any unexpected issues, the next balance update is scheduled for February 6th.
Are you guys going to give us any sneak peak of the Balance Patch?
We are planning PvP/WvW splits, changes to the Confusion condition, regeneration effectiveness prioritization, boon/condition conversion table changes... PLUS MORE!! There are some mesmer changes we're excited about and hope to talk them about in more detail as we draw nearer to the update. Stay tuned!
-Karl
-- hopefully this means you're nuking Mesmer into the ground.
So it's only going to be about effectiveness prioritization? Well that's disappointing to hear. Healing in general could use a little overhaul, especially the general effectiveness of healing power and the effectiveness (or lack there of) of some of the passive healing skills / effects.
@Karl McLain.5604 said:
Assuming that all goes well and we don't have any unexpected issues, the next balance update is scheduled for February 6th.
Are you guys going to give us any sneak peak of the Balance Patch?
We are planning PvP/WvW splits, changes to the Confusion condition, regeneration effectiveness prioritization, boon/condition conversion table changes... PLUS MORE!! There are some mesmer changes we're excited about and hope to talk them about in more detail as we draw nearer to the update. Stay tuned!
-Karl
-- hopefully this means you're nuking Mesmer into the ground.
Only if they also fix the damage on Revenant, Deadeye, Holosmith, and Spellbreaker. Or is it just the condi mirage you are complaining about?
@Karl McLain.5604 said:
Assuming that all goes well and we don't have any unexpected issues, the next balance update is scheduled for February 6th.
Are you guys going to give us any sneak peak of the Balance Patch?
We are planning PvP/WvW splits, changes to the Confusion condition, regeneration effectiveness prioritization, boon/condition conversion table changes... PLUS MORE!! There are some mesmer changes we're excited about and hope to talk them about in more detail as we draw nearer to the update. Stay tuned!
Skill splitig between the pvp gamemodes...did i read it well?
/facepalm
@Karl McLain.5604, game is to "cleavy" and AOE deppendent due how classes are fitted with cleaves/aoe for the PVE ambient and gameplay, that is the main issue, with all the stacking rather than know wichtargets u need to aim for.
Game lacks single target skills to make players get better at teamworks rather than aoe or cleave spam some zones.
my 2 cents.
Slayers [XD] NSP Guild
Yao Chen Herald/Ventari
Ying Wuxian Renegade/Demon
@Karl McLain.5604 said:
Assuming that all goes well and we don't have any unexpected issues, the next balance update is scheduled for February 6th.
Are you guys going to give us any sneak peak of the Balance Patch?
We are planning PvP/WvW splits, changes to the Confusion condition, regeneration effectiveness prioritization, boon/condition conversion table changes... PLUS MORE!! There are some mesmer changes we're excited about and hope to talk them about in more detail as we draw nearer to the update. Stay tuned!
@Karl McLain.5604 said:
Assuming that all goes well and we don't have any unexpected issues, the next balance update is scheduled for February 6th.
Are you guys going to give us any sneak peak of the Balance Patch?
We are planning PvP/WvW splits, changes to the Confusion condition, regeneration effectiveness prioritization, boon/condition conversion table changes... PLUS MORE!! There are some mesmer changes we're excited about and hope to talk them about in more detail as we draw nearer to the update. Stay tuned!
-Karl
Hopefully that confusion change is the removal of the passive damage that should never been implemented in PvP/WvW, and hopefully EM receives exhaustion to keep parity with another skill the functions slightly similarly.
@Karl McLain.5604 said:
Assuming that all goes well and we don't have any unexpected issues, the next balance update is scheduled for February 6th.
Are you guys going to give us any sneak peak of the Balance Patch?
We are planning PvP/WvW splits, changes to the Confusion condition, regeneration effectiveness prioritization, boon/condition conversion table changes... PLUS MORE!! There are some mesmer changes we're excited about and hope to talk them about in more detail as we draw nearer to the update. Stay tuned!
-Karl
Hopefully that confusion change is the removal of the passive damage that should never been implemented in PvP/WvW, and hopefully EM receives exhaustion to keep parity with another skill the functions slightly similarly.
I never got the concept of adding damage to hurt you when you don't use a skill. How about adding both damage specs of by second and on skill use and put it all into just on skill use. Torment while not walking is kind of understandable.. But Confusion no.
@Karl McLain.5604 said:
Assuming that all goes well and we don't have any unexpected issues, the next balance update is scheduled for February 6th.
Are you guys going to give us any sneak peak of the Balance Patch?
We are planning PvP/WvW splits, changes to the Confusion condition, regeneration effectiveness prioritization, boon/condition conversion table changes... PLUS MORE!! There are some mesmer changes we're excited about and hope to talk them about in more detail as we draw nearer to the update. Stay tuned!
-Karl
As for boon/condi table, the concept of being able to corrupt more than 1 boon every 2-3 secs is game breaking. Reducing the corrupted boons condi damage and removing weakness can help. But many classes have boons woven into their effectiveness and identity. As long as the ability to instantly and consistently remove boons exist, these classes/builds will never function in sPvP.
Reg effectiveness?! As long as I can remember reg operated the same way. Never have I seen or heard anyone considering reg to be an over performing boon. Why would you waste resources fixing something that is not remotely an issue when there are million other things that are utterly broken?! Resistance says hello.
@Karl McLain.5604 said:
Assuming that all goes well and we don't have any unexpected issues, the next balance update is scheduled for February 6th.
Are you guys going to give us any sneak peak of the Balance Patch?
Prob not because its probably terrible. I really dont understand why you guys want a balance patch so bad.... the changes you guys actually want would require a complete overhual of the current dev team. Srsly doubt this patch is going to be any better than the last 20 or so "balance" patches.
I’m calling it from now:
1. Confusion gets completely reworked into doing smth else. (Being punished for playing the game is just a dumb mechanic to begin with).
2. Mesmer gets either replacement conditions to fit the new confusion mechanic or some kind of a rework that either makes it broken OP, or brings it in line with a Renegade. Prolly the later.
3. The boon/condi conversion will be reworked in a manner that will enable warriors to outright /laugh at scourges and roflstomp the class to oblivion as a result.
4. Incoming yet another Warrior centered meta with Firebrand as support.
5. Daredevil will definitely get more nerfs, to make DE more streamlined.
6. Renegade will be buffed slightly and will still remain irrelevant.
7. Weaver will receive some tweaks, that will in no way make it any less clunky to play in anything other than PvE.
8. Holosmith will get some QoL improvements but the nerf to the condi classes will result in an indirect buff to them.
9. Druid will still be nigh unkillable if played properly, while continuing to be an utter bore to play. Maybe some spirit buffs for PvE? It’s a PvE game after all.
10. I got nothing
What did I miss? Feel free to discuss why you agree or disagree with the aforementioned.
I do warn you, it won’t change a thing whether we talk about it or not.
Peace.
@Karl McLain.5604 said:
Assuming that all goes well and we don't have any unexpected issues, the next balance update is scheduled for February 6th.
Are you guys going to give us any sneak peak of the Balance Patch?
We are planning PvP/WvW splits, changes to the Confusion condition, regeneration effectiveness prioritization, boon/condition conversion table changes... PLUS MORE!! There are some mesmer changes we're excited about and hope to talk them about in more detail as we draw nearer to the update. Stay tuned!
-Karl
Hopefully that confusion change is the removal of the passive damage that should never been implemented in PvP/WvW, and hopefully EM receives exhaustion to keep parity with another skill the functions slightly similarly.
I never got the concept of adding damage to hurt you when you don't use a skill. How about adding both damage specs of by second and on skill use and put it all into just on skill use. Torment while not walking is kind of understandable.. But Confusion no.
Confusion when the game was released was actually "inovative" it swaped the WASD controls keys, sometimes if near a cliff and u didnt pay atention with confusion.. well.. u certainlly walk for your own death.
It was actually fun watching players strugling to get the keys right
otto.5684, i just hope they are not making regen increase it's heals when stacking.... some classes atm have 100% regen uptime :P and share it.
On smaller scalle might look good on paper but stacking certain classes m8 achieve some heals that might be to much, and in larger scale combat ... would be for sure broken.
Slayers [XD] NSP Guild
Yao Chen Herald/Ventari
Ying Wuxian Renegade/Demon
Ohh reg stacking would be a disaster. Imagine FB disihing reg with every ToR pulse. If these stack it will be lols. The post from Karl though made it seem like it will be nerf, since it is a split from PvE. Honestly, reg is okiash boon. It border lines on th weaker side. It does not really need any rework.
Deleted in protest of anet leaving support ticket #7495730 without answer since October 10th 2019. It's sad how if this were a money-related issue you'd have answered within a couple of hours. At this point I'm not even mad, but disappointed by the mediocrity displayed by your community managers.
@Karl McLain.5604 said:
Assuming that all goes well and we don't have any unexpected issues, the next balance update is scheduled for February 6th.
Are you guys going to give us any sneak peak of the Balance Patch?
We are planning PvP/WvW splits, changes to the Confusion condition, regeneration effectiveness prioritization, boon/condition conversion table changes... PLUS MORE!! There are some mesmer changes we're excited about and hope to talk them about in more detail as we draw nearer to the update. Stay tuned!
-Karl
Well, this is a start. thank you for at least giving us some information.
@Karl McLain.5604 said:
Assuming that all goes well and we don't have any unexpected issues, the next balance update is scheduled for February 6th.
Are you guys going to give us any sneak peak of the Balance Patch?
We are planning PvP/WvW splits, changes to the Confusion condition, regeneration effectiveness prioritization, boon/condition conversion table changes... PLUS MORE!! There are some mesmer changes we're excited about and hope to talk them about in more detail as we draw nearer to the update. Stay tuned!
-Karl
Just one such post a week or two before each balance patch will make players SO MUCH HAPPIER.
Thanks Karl, for that information! Please ignore all
of the doomsayer, naysayer, woe is me, rude, sarcastic responses. You give people an inch, they take a mile. Keep up the great work!
@Karl McLain.5604 said:
Assuming that all goes well and we don't have any unexpected issues, the next balance update is scheduled for February 6th.
I really hope it is a large balance patch. Since PoF release there has been no large balance patch and balance has been kitten.
People have literally been complaining NON-STOP that they would rather have several small balance patches than one huge quarterly balance patch. ANet is trying to do that instead, releasing smaller balance patches that will effect the metas in smaller ways, and now people are complaining about that too?
@Rysdude.3824 said:
Thanks Karl, for that information! Please ignore all
of the doomsayer, naysayer, woe is me, rude, sarcastic responses. You give people an inch, they take a mile. Keep up the great work!
We only had a few years of bad balancing and ignored feedback, and just recently 4 months in which scourge was allowed to free reign in pvp. We truly are the worst for expecting nothing good.
Never said I'm the best, but I believe I'm better than you.
@Rysdude.3824 said:
Thanks Karl, for that information! Please ignore all
of the doomsayer, naysayer, woe is me, rude, sarcastic responses. You give people an inch, they take a mile. Keep up the great work!
You must be new ...in that case I can understand your reaction, but allow me to fill you in on the contents of the next "balance" patch:
-More meta defining buffs for warriors- guardian -mesmers : the first is the pet class , the second is the most played in the office and the last....dev bias
-More nerfs to ele -revenant plus "buffs" that will change absolutely nothing or just buff completely random stuff that nobody uses and will continue to ignore
-Minor slap on the wrist for necros...nothing big till next expansion where they'll introduce the same aoe condi spammer with different skin
-Dmg nerfs for engies
-Minor buffs for ranger...druid will remain the de facto meta...soulbeast won't change
-Minor nerfs for daredevil...minor dmg buff to deadeye
I will see you in 2 weeks...then you'll see why the players act the way they do now
-A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"
it´s happening boyz
we will final get a power creep balancing fix by anet
bringing every class and elite spec in line
down to core ranger with core pets level of dmg
no more one shot trolling or condi cancer
and ranger can finally be part of the zerg meta
EthanLightheart.9168
Member ✭✭✭
Comments
Maybe we can get a balance team with crowdfunding. I think many would be up for it.
Ben said it would be mid season. So probably late February - early March.
fix'd
Meh~
Ah so maybe in december 2026
This week's patch is the best one we had for months.
Finally one that doesn't worsen the pvp balance.
balance patches are every 3 months. Last one was Nov 7th. The closest Tuesday to 3 months from that is Feb 6th
What are you talking about? The balance patch today was fantastic. Didn't buff scourges/mirage/FB again. Didn't nerf core builds again. Definitely better than the December patch. Step in the right direction.
So be it .. if doing nothing means they´re not screwing things up more and more this seems the best way to handle the overall issues .. sad but true
How much worse can it possibly be?!
This post contains my opinion.
Idk .. there is a way i guess.. it´s anet .. they will find one .. but u´r right .. clown builds all over the place .. tanky as hell butt hitting like trucks .. ridiculous bs
Remember the last patch and it being a condition "nerf" patch hahaha yet things just got worse. That sort of thing, because fixing the issue by maybe just lowering the condi damage just wouln't work i guess.
Assuming that all goes well and we don't have any unexpected issues, the next balance update is scheduled for February 6th.
Are you guys going to give us any sneak peak of the Balance Patch?
thanks for finally setting a date. i assume the balance patch is suppose to be a major patch unlike the last ones?
That would mean players would actually have a chance to give feedback. We all know that's not allowed. That and they don't want to hear all the complaints about the FB buffs and more nerfs to core abilities to sell xpacs.
I look forward to the meta shifting 5 second cooldown reduction and 5% damage increases
That's good news. Any hint of a preview? Not expecting heavy details would just be nice to know which specs are being toned down / which are being buffed.
Thank you @Karl McLain.5604 for this official information
May we please have a thread from the Balance team with a little Glimpse of the incoming changes ? That would be great !
It goes a long way to have an estimated date. Thank you very much.
We are planning PvP/WvW splits, changes to the Confusion condition, regeneration effectiveness prioritization, boon/condition conversion table changes... PLUS MORE!! There are some mesmer changes we're excited about and hope to talk them about in more detail as we draw nearer to the update. Stay tuned!
-Karl
yay!
also...can you PLEASE give Deadeye a source of stability?
for a class whose weapon (rifle) removes all mobility, its sad the class has no stability skills at all. specially with the knockdown spam.
or at least protection =/ (maybe something similar to engineer's flamethrower grandmaster skill. where it pulses stability)
That's exciting news to hear. So regeneration effectiveness prioritization meaning regeneration application is prioritized based on healing power? If that's the case I wonder how that'll work with traits like Cleansing Water if the Ele has low healing power. Playing something like Ventari Rev that has so many healing modifiers makes regeneration much more potent, so it'd be nice to have it stick on the targets rather than get overwritten.
-- hopefully this means you're nuking Mesmer into the ground.
Thief would become very broken if it had on demand stability.
not if its just rifle
for example. pulse stability on rifle Kneel (like flamethrower engi)
So it's only going to be about effectiveness prioritization? Well that's disappointing to hear. Healing in general could use a little overhaul, especially the general effectiveness of healing power and the effectiveness (or lack there of) of some of the passive healing skills / effects.
Only if they also fix the damage on Revenant, Deadeye, Holosmith, and Spellbreaker. Or is it just the condi mirage you are complaining about?
dont forget revenant! !!
Can we talk about the balance patch? Did you read vallun's thread?
...
Are we gonna end up with minor nerfs to mirage because confusion is a tactical condition, even if they come in stacks of 20?
Never said I'm the best, but I believe I'm better than you.
Skill splitig between the pvp gamemodes...did i read it well?
/facepalm
@Karl McLain.5604, game is to "cleavy" and AOE deppendent due how classes are fitted with cleaves/aoe for the PVE ambient and gameplay, that is the main issue, with all the stacking rather than know wichtargets u need to aim for.
Game lacks single target skills to make players get better at teamworks rather than aoe or cleave spam some zones.
my 2 cents.
Slayers [XD] NSP Guild
Yao Chen Herald/Ventari
Ying Wuxian Renegade/Demon
And Scourge?
Sanity is for the weak minded
YouTube
Hopefully that confusion change is the removal of the passive damage that should never been implemented in PvP/WvW, and hopefully EM receives exhaustion to keep parity with another skill the functions slightly similarly.
I never got the concept of adding damage to hurt you when you don't use a skill. How about adding both damage specs of by second and on skill use and put it all into just on skill use. Torment while not walking is kind of understandable.. But Confusion no.
I really hope it is a large balance patch. Since PoF release there has been no large balance patch and balance has been kitten.
As for boon/condi table, the concept of being able to corrupt more than 1 boon every 2-3 secs is game breaking. Reducing the corrupted boons condi damage and removing weakness can help. But many classes have boons woven into their effectiveness and identity. As long as the ability to instantly and consistently remove boons exist, these classes/builds will never function in sPvP.
Reg effectiveness?! As long as I can remember reg operated the same way. Never have I seen or heard anyone considering reg to be an over performing boon. Why would you waste resources fixing something that is not remotely an issue when there are million other things that are utterly broken?! Resistance says hello.
Prob not because its probably terrible. I really dont understand why you guys want a balance patch so bad.... the changes you guys actually want would require a complete overhual of the current dev team. Srsly doubt this patch is going to be any better than the last 20 or so "balance" patches.
I’m calling it from now:
1. Confusion gets completely reworked into doing smth else. (Being punished for playing the game is just a dumb mechanic to begin with).
2. Mesmer gets either replacement conditions to fit the new confusion mechanic or some kind of a rework that either makes it broken OP, or brings it in line with a Renegade. Prolly the later.
3. The boon/condi conversion will be reworked in a manner that will enable warriors to outright /laugh at scourges and roflstomp the class to oblivion as a result.
4. Incoming yet another Warrior centered meta with Firebrand as support.
5. Daredevil will definitely get more nerfs, to make DE more streamlined.
6. Renegade will be buffed slightly and will still remain irrelevant.
7. Weaver will receive some tweaks, that will in no way make it any less clunky to play in anything other than PvE.
8. Holosmith will get some QoL improvements but the nerf to the condi classes will result in an indirect buff to them.
9. Druid will still be nigh unkillable if played properly, while continuing to be an utter bore to play. Maybe some spirit buffs for PvE? It’s a PvE game after all.
10. I got nothing
What did I miss? Feel free to discuss why you agree or disagree with the aforementioned.
I do warn you, it won’t change a thing whether we talk about it or not.
Peace.
Confusion when the game was released was actually "inovative" it swaped the WASD controls keys, sometimes if near a cliff and u didnt pay atention with confusion.. well.. u certainlly walk for your own death.
It was actually fun watching players strugling to get the keys right
even on gw1 was something else rather than stack damage like gw2 is sinec scrubs need that much damage.
https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Confusion
otto.5684, i just hope they are not making regen increase it's heals when stacking.... some classes atm have 100% regen uptime :P and share it.
On smaller scalle might look good on paper but stacking certain classes m8 achieve some heals that might be to much, and in larger scale combat ... would be for sure broken.
Slayers [XD] NSP Guild
Yao Chen Herald/Ventari
Ying Wuxian Renegade/Demon
Ohh reg stacking would be a disaster. Imagine FB disihing reg with every ToR pulse. If these stack it will be lols. The post from Karl though made it seem like it will be nerf, since it is a split from PvE. Honestly, reg is okiash boon. It border lines on th weaker side. It does not really need any rework.
Thanks Karl for the communication
Deleted in protest of anet leaving support ticket #7495730 without answer since October 10th 2019. It's sad how if this were a money-related issue you'd have answered within a couple of hours. At this point I'm not even mad, but disappointed by the mediocrity displayed by your community managers.
Well, this is a start. thank you for at least giving us some information.
Already been prepping Spellbreaker because this will become a SB/FB focused meta.
Just one such post a week or two before each balance patch will make players SO MUCH HAPPIER.
[NUKE]
@Karl McLain.5604 can we get some discussion on what you guys plan to do to:
Thanks Karl, for that information! Please ignore all
of the doomsayer, naysayer, woe is me, rude, sarcastic responses. You give people an inch, they take a mile. Keep up the great work!
People have literally been complaining NON-STOP that they would rather have several small balance patches than one huge quarterly balance patch. ANet is trying to do that instead, releasing smaller balance patches that will effect the metas in smaller ways, and now people are complaining about that too?
We only had a few years of bad balancing and ignored feedback, and just recently 4 months in which scourge was allowed to free reign in pvp. We truly are the worst for expecting nothing good.
Never said I'm the best, but I believe I'm better than you.
You must be new ...in that case I can understand your reaction, but allow me to fill you in on the contents of the next "balance" patch:
-More meta defining buffs for warriors- guardian -mesmers : the first is the pet class , the second is the most played in the office and the last....dev bias
-More nerfs to ele -revenant plus "buffs" that will change absolutely nothing or just buff completely random stuff that nobody uses and will continue to ignore
-Minor slap on the wrist for necros...nothing big till next expansion where they'll introduce the same aoe condi spammer with different skin
-Dmg nerfs for engies
-Minor buffs for ranger...druid will remain the de facto meta...soulbeast won't change
-Minor nerfs for daredevil...minor dmg buff to deadeye
I will see you in 2 weeks...then you'll see why the players act the way they do now
-A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"
it´s happening boyz
we will final get a power creep balancing fix by anet
bringing every class and elite spec in line
down to core ranger with core pets level of dmg
no more one shot trolling or condi cancer
and ranger can finally be part of the zerg meta