Why not make WvW a megaserver like the rest of the game? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Why not make WvW a megaserver like the rest of the game?

CETheLucid.3964CETheLucid.3964 Member ✭✭✭

Why not just have WvW become a megaserver like thing where we do away with server identities altogether and have a constant Red/Blue/Green faction sort of matchup? Have guilds picks between the three colors and boom. You've also added GvG on accident.

Make some kind of mist instability lore reason that sometimes guilds will get their color changed out from under them to combat stacking and other forms of manipulation/to balance out colors that are over or under picked for a season.

This instability will only affect guilds so many times so often before the algorithm is forced to pick other guilds it hasn't happened to so often. After a set period guild will again be susceptible to color switch instability.

The entire games population can use the WvW maps and be appropriated to their proper color in megaserver multimaps and all these instances wins/loses can add to the overall score. Winning color guild players get really cool neato mist bonuses they can take back into PvE.

Ergo basically the old world WvW bonuses but on a color win. Or something along those lines.

Players of the same guild get thrown into the same instance, they get que priority to said instance. Unaffiliated/guildless players will have to choose a side every new matchup and be locked into it.

They don't get cool bonuses because they're guildless losers/should be encouraged to join a guild but can still enjoy WvW as they see fit... or if they're smart they'll just use their friend/guild bank and get the bonuses like that and not be guildless losers!

Just a randumb idea for WvW I've had rattling around in my heard for a while now. If this isn't new or very good I apologize. If there's something to it and you want to add some much needed polish to the concept, please do.

<13

Comments

  • That's how Edge of the Mists is set up. And after the early days, people only went there for karma|xp|wxp trains (unless you were waiting on a queue, of course). It's has plenty of interesting mechanics, but it's not conducive to long match ups; it's a perfect structure for zerging and little else.

    So it might please a fraction of WvWers, but it wouldn't create the sort of match-ups a lot of people still hope to see.

    "Face the facts. Then act on them. It's ...the only doctrine I have to offer you, & it's harder than you'd think, because I swear humans seem hardwired to do anything but. Face the facts. Don't pray, don't wish, ...FACE THE FACTS. THEN act." — Quellcrist Falconer

  • Just remove BG from the game. BG bad!

    Guild wars 3 when?

  • Sovereign.1093Sovereign.1093 Member ✭✭✭✭

    give eotm pips or their own counterpart and we will have a living eotm map again.

    Not Even Coverage is the Only broken thing in WVW.

  • steki.1478steki.1478 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The reason why eotm is dead is because they removed every single farming aspect away from it, so there's literally no reason to play it. Without veterans on eotm, newbies also have no reason to play because they dont know what to do there (and every time I saw post on reddit about someone being new to wvw, people always said to stay away from eotm).

    Giving pips in eotm will somewhat fix problem of afk pip farming in wvw and probably bring some extra population to it (eotm). That could also give new players a map to learn wvw basics (it was kinda fun when I started playing, but there were people all the time).

    Deso's favorite FROG
    Master of afk and kiting
    The God of Pips and Gud Deeps
    Froggo himself

  • Zackie.8923Zackie.8923 Member ✭✭✭

    they should just bring back tournaments. 1 day style on reset day.

  • to add about eotm. the reason it was added to the game was to keep wvw players busy while waiting for their q to pop up cause back then maps were busy with queues (for some people it's hard to believe but yeah prime time had q everywhere). the map easily became a farm map in the end

  • Sovereign.1093Sovereign.1093 Member ✭✭✭✭

    because you get more loots if you farm. applies in the normal wvw too.

    Not Even Coverage is the Only broken thing in WVW.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Mogrey.3891 said:
    to add about eotm. the reason it was added to the game was to keep wvw players busy while waiting for their q to pop up cause back then maps were busy with queues (for some people it's hard to believe but yeah prime time had q everywhere). the map easily became a farm map in the end

    And to further add to that, EoTM wasnt released until after most queues had gone away and the queue system had been fixed (it was so very broken). So it was redundant from the start. Funny thing that.

  • hunkamania.7561hunkamania.7561 Member ✭✭✭✭

    3 factions for NA makes sense since the servers are super unbalanced. I mean you can raid with your guild in primetime NA and get no fights. That can't happen. PPT means NOTHING. Server pride is not a thing.

    Ferguson's Crossing Server Leader

    WVW LEADER

    VR

  • Kirnale.5914Kirnale.5914 Member ✭✭✭

    If you want to play a megaserver WvW then go into Eotm. Why are you still playing the normal WvW when your wish have already fulfilled? To be honest, if your suggestion comes true, then most people in my server will quit right away.

  • hunkamania.7561hunkamania.7561 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kirnale.5914 said:
    If you want to play a megaserver WvW then go into Eotm. Why are you still playing the normal WvW when your wish have already fulfilled? To be honest, if your suggestion comes true, then most people in my server will quit right away.

    Let them quit lol. the game will have more people come back because wvw won't be ded with megaservers. EOTM just spreads the population out. just delete it and make wvw megaserver. ez

    Ferguson's Crossing Server Leader

    WVW LEADER

    VR

  • Namer.9750Namer.9750 Member ✭✭✭

    Switching over to an EotM system is probably the least difficult long term option there is for WvW (disregarding battlegroups but that's never gonna happen lol).

    As it is, server identity is meaningless and most people in WvW play for the fights (except for some silly people still stuck in 2014, sheesh). There're far too many problems with the current system, including but not limited to:

    • Normal WvW encouraging boring af objective based gameplay
    • Population imbalances where one server in a tier may only have one map queued and another might have three (leading to players on two maps from the first server getting blobbed down).
    • Guilds willing to fight each other but multiple tiers apart not getting a chance to do so.
    • Lack of overall population density in OCX and EU's NA and NA's EU timezones especially when spread across 4/5 tiers.

    Megaserver-ing WvW solves all the listed problems. People whose idea of fun and interactive gameplay is autorunning beside dolyaks or pressing 1 on siege can still do so if instances are fully reloaded every 6 or 8 hours (i.e. NA, EU, OCX-SEA timezones). Population imbalances are smoothened out since all three sides ought to have almost the same number of players. Guilds can fight almost any other guild by using the squad/party interface to hop onto specific instances. And condensing all active players into 2-3 maps rather than 16 will help make offhours more active.

    So, yeah, there are literally no downsides to switching over to an EotM-style megaserver system. The only issue would be a matter of maps, since EotM is fairly terrible in terms of design all things considered, with too many PvE elements, too many chokes and too many slopes, but otherwise the system itself is the best hope there is for WvW at this point.

  • Strider Pj.2193Strider Pj.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Namer.9750 said:
    Switching over to an EotM system is probably the least difficult long term option there is for WvW (disregarding battlegroups but that's never gonna happen lol).

    As it is, server identity is meaningless and most people in WvW play for the fights (except for some silly people still stuck in 2014, sheesh). There're far too many problems with the current system, including but not limited to:

    • Normal WvW encouraging boring af objective based gameplay
    • Population imbalances where one server in a tier may only have one map queued and another might have three (leading to players on two maps from the first server getting blobbed down).
    • Guilds willing to fight each other but multiple tiers apart not getting a chance to do so.
    • Lack of overall population density in OCX and EU's NA and NA's EU timezones especially when spread across 4/5 tiers.

    Megaserver-ing WvW solves all the listed problems. People whose idea of fun and interactive gameplay is autorunning beside dolyaks or pressing 1 on siege can still do so if instances are fully reloaded every 6 or 8 hours (i.e. NA, EU, OCX-SEA timezones). Population imbalances are smoothened out since all three sides ought to have almost the same number of players. Guilds can fight almost any other guild by using the squad/party interface to hop onto specific instances. And condensing all active players into 2-3 maps rather than 16 will help make offhours more active.

    So, yeah, there are literally no downsides to switching over to an EotM-style megaserver system. The only issue would be a matter of maps, since EotM is fairly terrible in terms of design all things considered, with too many PvE elements, too many chokes and too many slopes, but otherwise the system itself is the best hope there is for WvW at this point.

    Sure. Just randomly adding guildmates to different maps so they can fight each other also.

    Any system that is inherently guild centric needs to be out of WvW. It needs to be player centric first.

  • Namer.9750Namer.9750 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 25, 2018

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:

    @Namer.9750 said:
    Switching over to an EotM system is probably the least difficult long term option there is for WvW (disregarding battlegroups but that's never gonna happen lol).

    As it is, server identity is meaningless and most people in WvW play for the fights (except for some silly people still stuck in 2014, sheesh). There're far too many problems with the current system, including but not limited to:

    • Normal WvW encouraging boring af objective based gameplay
    • Population imbalances where one server in a tier may only have one map queued and another might have three (leading to players on two maps from the first server getting blobbed down).
    • Guilds willing to fight each other but multiple tiers apart not getting a chance to do so.
    • Lack of overall population density in OCX and EU's NA and NA's EU timezones especially when spread across 4/5 tiers.

    Megaserver-ing WvW solves all the listed problems. People whose idea of fun and interactive gameplay is autorunning beside dolyaks or pressing 1 on siege can still do so if instances are fully reloaded every 6 or 8 hours (i.e. NA, EU, OCX-SEA timezones). Population imbalances are smoothened out since all three sides ought to have almost the same number of players. Guilds can fight almost any other guild by using the squad/party interface to hop onto specific instances. And condensing all active players into 2-3 maps rather than 16 will help make offhours more active.

    So, yeah, there are literally no downsides to switching over to an EotM-style megaserver system. The only issue would be a matter of maps, since EotM is fairly terrible in terms of design all things considered, with too many PvE elements, too many chokes and too many slopes, but otherwise the system itself is the best hope there is for WvW at this point.

    Sure. Just randomly adding guildmates to different maps so they can fight each other also.

    Any system that is inherently guild centric needs to be out of WvW. It needs to be player centric first.

    Why should guildmates fight? Servers are a hardware-based limitation and when you start the game, you do so without any idea. Servers have very little in the form of identity for themselves. I just picked a server at character creation, then met other people who I got along pretty well with and eventually all decided to hop onto one server together and form a guild. I don't care for

    Guilds are what gives you a greater identity. You don't make friends with the hundred of regular players on a server. You make friends with players who are of like mind and enjoy the same kinds of things you enjoy and have a common goal. With a server, you have hundreds of players and out of those you may only interact with a few dozen at most and get to know a handful, but with a guild, you learn who plays what classes, who enjoys doing what.

    I know this person likes playing full glass D/D and when roaming I'm his meatshield. I know that person likes to run full glass and do godtier damage output and if she's in the same party as me, I would switch my Guard from Cele to Minstrel's to support her DPS output. I know another guard who runs Merciful Intervention and will bail me out everytime, so when he's playing with us I play aggressively and go balls deep. We all enjoy doing large scale PvP together and focus on fighting other groups with 10-15 people. As a guild we know each other's likes and dislikes and tolerances and can joke around in raids running together as a group.

    I see you advocate against guilds often Why on earth is that undesirable for you?

    MMOs have never been about individual players, but about guilds; that's why you see guilds or clans or whatever name you use as a cornerstone of online gaming, while nearly everything else varies from game to game. Pulling guilds apart for no good reason isn't going to do anyone any favours.

  • Strider Pj.2193Strider Pj.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    You are mistaken. I do no advocate against guilds. I advocate against #guild centric# designs and models.

    Have all the guilds you want go to EOTM. You have the technology in place to do what you want yet you won't do it. Why?

    Don't tell me the map stinks, because there are perfect places within that map to have guilds fight.

    WvW is not a guild playground. Guilds go there, certainly, and I am a part of some that I truly don't want to be split from. But any system that turns WvW into a guild centric system would be harmful to the mode as a whole.

  • @Namer.9750 said:

    Megaserver-ing WvW solves all the listed problems.

    Speaking from a Maguuma point of view, we absolutely hate the linking because there are conflicting goals (i.e. - Mag wants to stay out of T1, while Devona's Rest really really wants to be in T1), conflicting styles of play (MagCloud KDR vs. Zerging PPT), and conflicting types of experience (Mag composed of fight guilds vs. newbie players who die on inc.). I personally think this was done to handicap Mag instead of helping them, but I digress.

    If you force massively conflicting goals, styles of play, and types of experience on the servers then you are introducing a whole new level of problems. I joke about the Mag/BG link, but can you imagine the conflict it would cause - not only between our servers - but between all the other servers we would go up against? You already had Ventuers of the Mist (EOTM) who would get a commander on each EOTM server specifically to karma farm and flip keeps over and over, and would publicly humiliate anyone trying to defend a keep. When I joined them, I specifically used their own GuildChat and Teamspeak to farm them (ended in a guild-kick). They would always wipe about 3 time, and then quit. So now if you introduce a server composed of someone like Mag/BG/SoS/etc, you are effectively kicking everyone else out of WvW because Mag will kill everyone, BG will cap everything, and SoS will siege everything. That leads to no fun for anyone.

    If it gets to the point where there are no more WvW players left, then we could talk about combining. However, when most servers can still que 2-3 maps on reset there is no reason to do this.

    "Wait a minute, you are as great a wvw player as has ever been, owning bloodlust with impunity." - Mykhul

  • As it is, server identity is meaningless

    Not to many, as we've seen from various threads here on the forums and pretty much every night in /team.

    most people in WvW play for the fights

    Some have always played for fights. Some have always liked the strategy. I don't think any of us players have a good sense of what "most WvWers" like.

    There're far too many problems with the current system,

    WvW has always had problems. The longer one plays, the more obvious some of them become (and the easier it is to forget how long they've been in the game). For example, people have been complaining about population imbalance since the first month.


    I would like to see ANet figure out some ways to keep things fresh, even if they can't solve the worst of the underlying issues. I would like to see them engage the community, to brainstorm and then filter the ideas by practicality/budget. I would like to see them making small changes regularly to mix things up, keeping them just long enough to get experienced opinions, to better educate them on the sorts of little things that can matter to an epic experience.

    But that's really easy for me to type and really hard for any studio to implement.

    "Face the facts. Then act on them. It's ...the only doctrine I have to offer you, & it's harder than you'd think, because I swear humans seem hardwired to do anything but. Face the facts. Don't pray, don't wish, ...FACE THE FACTS. THEN act." — Quellcrist Falconer

  • SkyShroud.2865SkyShroud.2865 Member ✭✭✭✭

    If anyone does play a couple of pvp mmorpgs, they would know why pvp mmorpgs are designed in the way they are. If you consider the goals of these designs, eotm is not a good answer.

    Founder & Leader of Equinox Solstice [TIME], a Singapore-Based International PvX Guild
    Henge of Denravi Server
    www.gw2time.com

    --

    Explanations of WvW Structures & Populations Issues

  • hunkamania.7561hunkamania.7561 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Namer.9750 said:
    Switching over to an EotM system is probably the least difficult long term option there is for WvW (disregarding battlegroups but that's never gonna happen lol).

    As it is, server identity is meaningless and most people in WvW play for the fights (except for some silly people still stuck in 2014, sheesh). There're far too many problems with the current system, including but not limited to:

    • Normal WvW encouraging boring af objective based gameplay
    • Population imbalances where one server in a tier may only have one map queued and another might have three (leading to players on two maps from the first server getting blobbed down).
    • Guilds willing to fight each other but multiple tiers apart not getting a chance to do so.
    • Lack of overall population density in OCX and EU's NA and NA's EU timezones especially when spread across 4/5 tiers.

    Megaserver-ing WvW solves all the listed problems. People whose idea of fun and interactive gameplay is autorunning beside dolyaks or pressing 1 on siege can still do so if instances are fully reloaded every 6 or 8 hours (i.e. NA, EU, OCX-SEA timezones). Population imbalances are smoothened out since all three sides ought to have almost the same number of players. Guilds can fight almost any other guild by using the squad/party interface to hop onto specific instances. And condensing all active players into 2-3 maps rather than 16 will help make offhours more active.

    So, yeah, there are literally no downsides to switching over to an EotM-style megaserver system. The only issue would be a matter of maps, since EotM is fairly terrible in terms of design all things considered, with too many PvE elements, too many chokes and too many slopes, but otherwise the system itself is the best hope there is for WvW at this point.

    Pretty much bang on right here.

    Ferguson's Crossing Server Leader

    WVW LEADER

    VR

  • Turk.5460Turk.5460 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Server identity may be meaningless, but the countless allies you have made on your server over the years, in which you do not share a guild, create a community. Server communities are not meaningless.

    Fort Aspenwood
    Jekkies

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Namer.9750 said:
    Population imbalances are smoothened out since all three sides ought to have almost the same number of players.

    Oh you mean like EoTM is now, perfectly balanced all the time? Sounds like a fantasy.

    And if you are suggesting all play on one megaserver since you mention EU/NA/OCX timezones then no. Just no. Please do not try to actively kill GW2 WvW. I mean sure it has its flaws but its not like we need to go out of our way to find ways to make it unplayable for an entire region.

  • let's add the eso in our discussion. right now eso has 4 campaigns total for pvp. 1. 30 day with champion point 2. 30 day without . 3 one 7 day and one more i think. and a huge map to "support" all those players (last time i heard the lag was real). in other word is not a megaserver there either.

    now on gw2. all races are friendly the easiest way was to split them in servers (that we have now). creating a megaserver will not work. pretty much destroying the community. wvw guilds are not just working within the guild but within the server (drama exists sometimes but yeah) pretty much they are working together. so they may want to continue to work together. placing them randomly it destroys that so nope megaserver will not work. will never work.

    creating an alliance between guilds (and not just one-two guilds but more) could work but it could also backfire.

    arenanet must find another viable solution.

  • Threather.9354Threather.9354 Member ✭✭✭

    Making megaservers wont work unless they increase amount of maps to like 15. There isn't single server on EU that cant hit 2 maps with queue on a good day. Some can hit 4.

    WvW isnt dead, it is just your timezone, transfer.

    Ri Ba - WvW Commander, scout, loudmouth, tryhard
    Making Desolation great again/Alt somewhere
    Diamond Legend

  • hunkamania.7561hunkamania.7561 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 26, 2018

    gw2 wvw is dead. Why are you guys in denial? Servers being unbalanced is always gonna be there with the current server system. Only reason people don't do eotm anymore is because of pips but there just isn't the population to cover eotm and wvw anymore so they just need to get rid of eotm and do 3 factions.

    EU is definitely in a better state of server balance in primetime but when it comes to the off hours it's a mess as well. This system is flawed. sorry

    Ferguson's Crossing Server Leader

    WVW LEADER

    VR

  • DeadlySynz.3471DeadlySynz.3471 Member ✭✭✭✭

    It's already heading that way, it's only a matter of time. There isn't enough population to decently populate 4 maps on any server (except for BG on select days). At best, we could remove 2 maps all together, and people wouldn't notice a difference in ques. Anybody who doesn't believe this is in denial.

    It no longer makes sense to have 4 maps, let alone multiple servers. Once the change is made to 3 factions, people will wonder why this change wasn't implemented sooner.

  • I can see it happening now...Arenanet adding EOTM to replace 1 of the alpine WvWvW borderlands map. Hopefully it will just be an April Fool's Prank because nobody ever liked that map except trolls who feared zergs off cliffs to their deaths. Anyway as a #BeastGate player who listens to music, never uses teamspeak (used to represent my own guild of PUG LIFE CHOSE US [NOTS]) I believe there is a lack of server pride and sportsmanship nowadays.

    @CETheLucid.3964 said:
    Why not just have WvW become a megaserver like thing where we do away with server identities altogether and have a constant Red/Blue/Green faction sort of matchup?
    Players of the same guild get thrown into the same instance, they get que priority to said instance. Unaffiliated/guildless players will have to choose a side every new matchup and be locked into it.
    They don't get cool bonuses because they're guildless losers/should be encouraged to join a guild but can still enjoy WvW as they see fit... or if they're smart they'll just use their friend/guild bank and get the bonuses like that and not be guildless losers!

    I think I'll just copy/paste my answer to this quote: We recently had stronghold released in pvp and even the guild arena in guild halls did not suddenly make GvGing popular. Despite what guilds may think this game and especially WvWvW is running on life support and even T1 servers often have outnumbered on many maps.

    I cannot agree with Forced GvGing. Even with all the rivalries between servers, the bandwagoning, “buying guilds”, spying in TS, etc. There are big server communities behind each server. Players work together and form real friendships in WvWvW.

    I believe this is something GvGers forget about server based WvWvW. GW1 had GvG but I don’t think Arenanet will ever support it completely in GW2. The simplest is that unorganised zerging with “PUGs” is easily done with a commander tag.

    This is just my opinion of course but I think that GvGers are too elitist and even mean sometimes to the players on a server. The militia fight for their server too. They may not all be on TS, some may even be on uplevels but without them at all WvWvW would be much more emptier place.

    Please love the random players aka the PUGs of your server and teach them how to WvWvW even encourage them to join a guild or give advice on builds and gear. But don’t just hate on them for the sake of it. All running tagless does is force elitism into an already dying game mode.

  • zinkz.7045zinkz.7045 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 26, 2018

    @Threather.9354 said:
    WvW isnt dead, it is just your timezone, transfer.

    Depends on your definition of "dead", for many that definition is something along the lines of the activity (and the quality of that activity) in WvW has reached such a low point that it is no longer worth playing (or only worth playing a little).

    Really even T1/T2 matchups today with 5+ servers combined only have maybe the activity level of low - mid Silver league servers back when the game was healthy, and that was just 3 servers in a matchup.

    And sure, occasionally I've seen 3 or for a short time 4 maps queued at reset, but then nothing gets close to that for the rest of the week, where if you compare back to earlier in the game, and I don't mean 2012, but even back to 2015/16, if you took a big server then like FSP you could have 4 maps queued on a weekday at primetime with 100+ for EB, and that was one server, not 2 or 3 linked and primetime lasted a lot longer, not over by 10 PM as is often the case nowadays. Same for the number of guilds, and as for "roaming", well...

    Then outside prime the difference is even worse, which sort of highlights one of the problems with the server system, in how inflexible it is at dealing with population changes across the day / week, where a server(s) can basically be dead for hours at a time, yet then have queued maps for a couple of hours in the evening, other systems deal with that a lot better (ESO for example).

    And then even with queued maps, the quality and number of fights is normally pitiful...

    WvW is a pale imitation of what it once was, some people describe that as 'dead'.

  • LetoII.3782LetoII.3782 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @hunkamania.7561 said:

    @Namer.9750 said:
    Switching over to an EotM system is probably the least difficult long term option there is for WvW (disregarding battlegroups but that's never gonna happen lol).

    As it is, server identity is meaningless and most people in WvW play for the fights (except for some silly people still stuck in 2014, sheesh). There're far too many problems with the current system, including but not limited to:

    • Normal WvW encouraging boring af objective based gameplay
    • Population imbalances where one server in a tier may only have one map queued and another might have three (leading to players on two maps from the first server getting blobbed down).
    • Guilds willing to fight each other but multiple tiers apart not getting a chance to do so.
    • Lack of overall population density in OCX and EU's NA and NA's EU timezones especially when spread across 4/5 tiers.

    Megaserver-ing WvW solves all the listed problems. People whose idea of fun and interactive gameplay is autorunning beside dolyaks or pressing 1 on siege can still do so if instances are fully reloaded every 6 or 8 hours (i.e. NA, EU, OCX-SEA timezones). Population imbalances are smoothened out since all three sides ought to have almost the same number of players. Guilds can fight almost any other guild by using the squad/party interface to hop onto specific instances. And condensing all active players into 2-3 maps rather than 16 will help make offhours more active.

    So, yeah, there are literally no downsides to switching over to an EotM-style megaserver system. The only issue would be a matter of maps, since EotM is fairly terrible in terms of design all things considered, with too many PvE elements, too many chokes and too many slopes, but otherwise the system itself is the best hope there is for WvW at this point.

    Pretty much bang on right here.

    I can't agree an eotm system has "literally no downside". Us all being in the same player pool would have advantages for matchmaking, but the social impacts would be decidedly negative. If a new system isn't miraculously good to offset the loss of community incurred in it's implimentation, it would truly be WvW's death knell.

    [HUNT] the predatory instinct

  • Trajan.4953Trajan.4953 Member ✭✭✭

    Those dedicated to the server above all else will cling to that and defend it tooth and nail even as the house burns down around them.

  • LetoII.3782LetoII.3782 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I'm no great fan of the server system, I believe transfers were kept free for so long intentionally to encourage the transfer culture.

    But to deny these communities exist, or have relevance is to do the game a disservice. Heck, some people's whole gw2 experience is logging in to complain about the game with their friends.

    [HUNT] the predatory instinct

  • Illconceived Was Na.9781Illconceived Was Na.9781 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 26, 2018

    @LetoII.3782 said:
    I'm no great fan of the server system, I believe transfers were kept free for so long intentionally to encourage the transfer culture.

    They were free because guesting was broken when the game launched; without free transfers, there would have been no way for friends on different worlds to play PvE with each other.

    Unfortunately, it created the potential for bandwagoning WvW from the start. ANet tried to tackle that by first limiting transfers to once daily then once a week and then reducing rewards for a time after transferring. But by the time they did that, a lot of the damage was done.

    "Face the facts. Then act on them. It's ...the only doctrine I have to offer you, & it's harder than you'd think, because I swear humans seem hardwired to do anything but. Face the facts. Don't pray, don't wish, ...FACE THE FACTS. THEN act." — Quellcrist Falconer

  • Namer.9750Namer.9750 Member ✭✭✭

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Namer.9750 said:
    Population imbalances are smoothened out since all three sides ought to have almost the same number of players.

    Oh you mean like EoTM is now, perfectly balanced all the time? Sounds like a fantasy.

    And if you are suggesting all play on one megaserver since you mention EU/NA/OCX timezones then no. Just no. Please do not try to actively kill GW2 WvW. I mean sure it has its flaws but its not like we need to go out of our way to find ways to make it unplayable for an entire region.

    Why on earth would I suggest something that reet? Don't strawman me. I specifically mentioned NA's EU and EU's NA for a reason. Reading comprehension, please.

    And a system that spontaneously generates new maps based on an upper limit will always be more balanced than one that has a predefined number of maps and relies on having enough players per server to fill it up. Also consider the relative numbers of players. Right now, a tier may have one server fielding 200 players in NA primetime one night, the second server fielding 150 and the third server 100 only. Compare this with one server fielding 2000, the second fielding 1800 and the third fielding 1600 in a megaserver'ed system.

    The direct disparity is just higher, but consider:

    1. The relative disparity is lower. The difference between Green and Red with Megaservers is only 25%, versus anywhere from 10% to 200% that happens in the current system.
    2. Fully instanced maps means, say, using the above numbers and 100 players per server per map, we have 16 maps with all 3 servers running full, then 2 more maps with mostly Green and Blue, and then the last map with Green ktraining. Each map only fills up to the maximum necessary

    Most of the current numerical disparity you see in EotM current is because it's practically dead and most players are pushed to WvW, making the EotM population very inconsistent and occasional. If the people who play WvW currently all simply shifted to an EotM-style map, it would be far more balanced than it is now.

  • LetoII.3782LetoII.3782 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 26, 2018

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

    @LetoII.3782 said:

    They were free because guesting was broken when the game launched; without free transfers, there would have been no way for friends on different worlds to play PvE with each other.

    I'll buy 2 birds were killed with one stone, how about?
    There's way too much freemium gamesmanship going on in GW2 to not view Arenanets actions with cynicism.

    [HUNT] the predatory instinct

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @getalifeturd.8139 said:
    We recently had stronghold released in pvp and even the guild arena in guild halls did not suddenly make GvGing popular.

    As recent as 2015, practicly yesterday!

  • @LetoII.3782 said:

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

    @LetoII.3782 said:

    They were free because guesting was broken when the game launched; without free transfers, there would have been no way for friends on different worlds to play PvE with each other.

    I'll buy 2 birds were killed with one stone, how about?
    There's way too much freemium gamesmanship going on in GW2 to not view Arenanets actions with cynicism.

    Regardless, guesting didn't work on the first day of the game and not for months after, so they had no choice. Unless you really think they deliberately told us part of the game was broken just so that years later, they could cash in when linkages became a thing and bandwagoning became big enough to affect gold:gem ratios. Cynicism I can understand, but that much advance planning when the company was just barely able to manage the release schedule for Living World S1?

    "Face the facts. Then act on them. It's ...the only doctrine I have to offer you, & it's harder than you'd think, because I swear humans seem hardwired to do anything but. Face the facts. Don't pray, don't wish, ...FACE THE FACTS. THEN act." — Quellcrist Falconer

  • @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @getalifeturd.8139 said:
    We recently had stronghold released in pvp and even the guild arena in guild halls did not suddenly make GvGing popular.

    As recent as 2015, practicly yesterday!

    Let's be honest with the time it takes for WvWvW to get an update...Practically yesterday is probably how long Arenanet thinks its been since the last update.

  • Rampage.7145Rampage.7145 Member ✭✭✭

    @CETheLucid.3964 said:
    Why not just have WvW become a megaserver like thing where we do away with server identities altogether and have a constant Red/Blue/Green faction sort of matchup? Have guilds picks between the three colors and boom. You've also added GvG on accident.

    Completelly agree with the OP, this si very much needed for this game to be able to go back to be alive, so many people quit over the years because WvW problems, mega servers would solve all of them u name it ¨server imbalance, nightcaping, population disadvantage¨ Arenanet designed mega servers to help PVE players to be able to find gropus easier remember the pain it was back then to even find a group for a random dungeon. Megaservers in PVE did nothing but revitalize the game and they were a big success, i don´t see why they would be a success for WvW also, where those problems; finding groups or finding enemies to fight are way more problematic than problems to find PVE groups ever were. +100000000000000000000 votes for this post

    Megaservers would bring back thousands of players, just make it simple no more 1 week matches, 2 or 3 hours per match, with 30 min of preparation between games, use the LFG tool to find groups, ¨WvW raid, no mic required, everyone welcome (need scouts)¨ ¨Guild KnT, WvW raid mic required LF 3 mesmers 2 guardians (will gear check)¨ u can have both super elitistic groups and more casual players happy with this change and coexisting with no problems.

    VR Driver
    Salty beavers top guild 2 years in a row back to back, the double champs
    https://saltybeavers.com/

  • Rampage.7145Rampage.7145 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 26, 2018

    @CETheLucid.3964 said:
    Why not just have WvW become a megaserver like thing where we do away with server identities altogether and have a constant Red/Blue/Green faction sort of matchup? Have guilds picks between the three colors and boom. You've also added GvG on accident.

    Completelly agree with the OP, this is very much needed for this game to be able to go back to be alive, so many people quit over the years because WvW problems, mega servers would solve all of them u name it ¨server imbalance, nightcaping, population disadvantage¨ Arenanet designed mega servers to help PVE players to be able to find gropus easier remember the pain it was back then to even find a group for a random dungeon. Megaservers in PVE did nothing but revitalize the game and they were a big success, i don´t see why they would be a success for WvW also, where those problems; finding groups or finding enemies to fight are way more problematic than problems to find PVE groups ever were. +100000000000000000000 votes for this post

    Megaservers would bring back thousands of players, just make it simple no more 1 week matches, 2 or 3 hours per match, with 30 min of preparation between games, use the LFG tool to find groups, ¨WvW raid, no mic required, everyone welcome (need scouts)¨ ¨Guild KnT, WvW raid mic required LF 3 mesmers 2 guardians (will gear check)¨ u can have both super elitistic groups and more casual players happy with this change and coexisting with no problems.

    VR Driver
    Salty beavers top guild 2 years in a row back to back, the double champs
    https://saltybeavers.com/

  • LetoII.3782LetoII.3782 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

    @LetoII.3782 said:

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

    @LetoII.3782 said:

    They were free because guesting was broken when the game launched; without free transfers, there would have been no way for friends on different worlds to play PvE with each other.

    I'll buy 2 birds were killed with one stone, how about?
    There's way too much freemium gamesmanship going on in GW2 to not view Arenanets actions with cynicism.

    Regardless, guesting didn't work on the first day of the game and not for months after, so they had no choice. Unless you really think they deliberately told us part of the game was broken just so that years later, they could cash in when linkages became a thing and bandwagoning became big enough to affect gold:gem ratios. Cynicism I can understand, but that much advance planning when the company was just barely able to manage the release schedule for Living World S1?

    Many services on the internet start with an introductory period free of charge.

    [HUNT] the predatory instinct

  • @LetoII.3782 said:
    Many services on the internet start with an introductory period free of charge.

    While it's possible that ANet might have started off with allowing us one or more free transfers during the first month or longer, that wasn't what happened in 2012.

    Transfers were free because ANet had promised that we could play with friends regardless of choice of world and the underlying mechanics to enable that (guesting) weren't ready at launch. Free transfers were made available as a kludge to allow people to play with friends.

    "Face the facts. Then act on them. It's ...the only doctrine I have to offer you, & it's harder than you'd think, because I swear humans seem hardwired to do anything but. Face the facts. Don't pray, don't wish, ...FACE THE FACTS. THEN act." — Quellcrist Falconer

  • Justine.6351Justine.6351 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The game isn't setup with the notion of 3 main faction's like ESO is with the Ebonheart Pact, Daggerfall Covenant and Aldermeri Dominion. Identity is important or nobody cares and win trading type things can happen.

    If we ever saw cantha maybe we could get 3 faction's like,

    Kurzick
    Luxon
    Imperial

    But that would likely come with AB maps not WvW.

    Part of the issue imo is that they never added an NPC faction, which made wvw strictly players only. Without the dynamic of an always aggressive and present balancing force on the map, ktraining ensues. Without an NPC faction there is "no story" and wvw becomes as boring as the players who are present at any given time.

    WvW is 100% player driven, which is why it can be amazing or a complete bore.

    People may think I'm stupid for wanting more pve in wvw but it's even more stupid to ask for content in a mode that has none by design and by extension, a system to pit no-identity teams against each other forever, expecting players to be permanently hooked.

    Anet buff me :-(
    Make me good at game!

  • LetoII.3782LetoII.3782 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 26, 2018

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

    Transfers were free because ANet had promised that we could play with friends regardless of choice of world and the underlying mechanics to enable that (guesting) weren't ready at launch. Free transfers were made available as a kludge to allow people to play with friends.

    I'd love to continue, but the mods keep dinging me for derailing threads.

    [HUNT] the predatory instinct

  • xihorus.2804xihorus.2804 Member ✭✭
    edited January 26, 2018

    The idea you proposed already exists. It's called EotM. The only difference I see is that it is using the WvW maps instead of the EotM one.

    If you add sweet rewards to the winning color team, then people will just stack that color to get the rewards. It would be the tournament bandwagon all over again, just with colors instead of servers. I am aware that you suggested:

    @CETheLucid.3964 said:
    Make some kind of mist instability lore reason that sometimes guilds will get their color changed out from under them to combat stacking and other forms of manipulation/to balance out colors that are over or under picked for a season.

    But how would you decide who gets changed and when? And what would be the incentive for the affected guilds to not just quit playing, or come back into a new instance as the color they originally desired? More likely a domino effect would happen: Guild X rolls green to stack with other guilds, green begins to steamroll blue and red. The system decides to swap Guild X to blue, who now realizes they are up against a horribly stacked opponent, and quits. What then? Keep swapping guilds until the match is a ghost town?

    I appreciate a system like this might appeal to the GvG crowd, but there are much better methods that could be implemented without destroying WvW in its current form. Imagine if you could enter a private instance of EotM or OS as the color of your choice, or if the arena in OS was made into a separate instance for GvG.

  • EOTM's Megaserver resulted in 1) green server constantly rolling blue and red, or 2) just rotating keeps over and over. Turning all of WvW into EOTM isn't the answer, and you would LOSE players... not gain them.

    "Wait a minute, you are as great a wvw player as has ever been, owning bloodlust with impunity." - Mykhul

  • hunkamania.7561hunkamania.7561 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Thustlewhumber.7416 said:
    EOTM's Megaserver resulted in 1) green server constantly rolling blue and red, or 2) just rotating keeps over and over. Turning all of WvW into EOTM isn't the answer, and you would LOSE players... not gain them.

    Of course green would always rollover everyone. All the greens are from the bandwagon servers. So the server system which is unbalanced even screws over EOTM. You can't do the megaservers like that. A megaserver system would bring players back into the game since most leave because there's nothing to do in WVW PRIMETIME!

    Ferguson's Crossing Server Leader

    WVW LEADER

    VR

  • Baldrick.8967Baldrick.8967 Member ✭✭✭

    @Namer.9750 said:

    So, yeah, there are literally no downsides to switching over to an EotM-style megaserver system.

    Apart from the very obvious language problem in the EU servers, seeing as we have French, German and English speaking servers.

    Who will run the megaserver TS?

    How will I play with people I am familiar with?

    Megaservers would ensure that wvw becomes totally filled with casual pve'rs for a few weeks then it would die a death, as in the meantime servers with a good cohesion would just quit.

    The only way to launch megaservers into wvw would be to totally restructure wvw from the ground up- which is way too much work for Anet given we're lucky if a dev remembers it exists once a month.

  • SkyShroud.2865SkyShroud.2865 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Justine.6351 said:
    The game isn't setup with the notion of 3 main faction's like ESO is with the Ebonheart Pact, Daggerfall Covenant and Aldermeri Dominion. Identity is important or nobody cares and win trading type things can happen.

    If we ever saw cantha maybe we could get 3 faction's like,

    Kurzick
    Luxon
    Imperial

    But that would likely come with AB maps not WvW.

    Part of the issue imo is that they never added an NPC faction, which made wvw strictly players only. Without the dynamic of an always aggressive and present balancing force on the map, ktraining ensues. Without an NPC faction there is "no story" and wvw becomes as boring as the players who are present at any given time.

    WvW is 100% player driven, which is why it can be amazing or a complete bore.

    People may think I'm stupid for wanting more pve in wvw but it's even more stupid to ask for content in a mode that has none by design and by extension, a system to pit no-identity teams against each other forever, expecting players to be permanently hooked.

    It is setup as fractions, called servers. Though the identity is not as strong as the one you have on pvp mmorpgs with all the supporting mechanism to make it more involving and interesting. Nevertheless, it is still a fraction.

    Since I mentioned pvp mmorpg, I think everybody should understand gw2 isn't a pvp mmorpg, don't get your hope too high.

    Founder & Leader of Equinox Solstice [TIME], a Singapore-Based International PvX Guild
    Henge of Denravi Server
    www.gw2time.com

    --

    Explanations of WvW Structures & Populations Issues

  • Rampage.7145Rampage.7145 Member ✭✭✭

    @Baldrick.8967 said:

    @Namer.9750 said:

    So, yeah, there are literally no downsides to switching over to an EotM-style megaserver system.

    Apart from the very obvious language problem in the EU servers, seeing as we have French, German and English speaking servers.

    Who will run the megaserver TS?

    How will I play with people I am familiar with?

    Language is not a problem, you will just run with your guild or friends that speak the same language you do, use LFG to find a group that meets what you are looking for, etc that is why there need to be a 30 min preparation period between matches, you might be put on a map and play alongside a German guild and your guild is french, you can still use English to communicate basic stuff with each other.

    TS is dead people just use discord to be honest, you find a group on LFG u join their discord they assign u a temp role , once you are done with that u get automatically kicked or whatever there are many ways to make that work, it is very simple any discord admin knows this.

    You will always have a friends list if you happen to run with a commander you like or a guild u are interested to join after playing with then you can always add them to friends and talk to them and whatnot, you know like normal people.

    Mega servers were put in PVE back in the day cuz it was extremely hard to find parties to do basic stuff not to mention find people arround the world questing and whatnot, megaservers just resolves any population problems you may have by dynamically scaling up and down the number of instanced maps according to activity, it was a huge success in PVE i dont see why not implement it in WvW where you have the exact same problems we once had in PVE, literally all the problems people ever complained about WvW over the years would be resolved with mega server +short duration matchups (2-3hours)

    VR Driver
    Salty beavers top guild 2 years in a row back to back, the double champs
    https://saltybeavers.com/

  • As I said somewhere in this topic in wvw you are not just working guild wise but community wise as well. In eu to destroy the German or other lang specific server community would be like saying @&;$&#&# you we don't care about your communities. Megaserver the way you are proposing it at least would be last nail in the coffin. Only people who want to farm would go and we will see eotm2.0 where zergs avoid each other and just run clockwise to cap objectives.

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