How would you redesign the warrior? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

How would you redesign the warrior?

Lonami.2987Lonami.2987 Member ✭✭✭
edited July 7, 2018 in Warrior

Do you feel like the warrior could be much more? That his mechanics don't do his theme justice? Maybe his elite specializations have a weak design? Or do you just want to post some crazy ideas? Well, then this thread is for you.

So, just for fun, how would you redesign the warrior?

Last update here: May 9, 2018

Few personal ideas to start the thread:


Warrior - Advanced Burst skills

The concept of burst skills is nice, but I think it's way too limited. It could be more complex, and with more options.

Burst skills have a different effect depending on the adrenaline level, but usually, it's just a damage boost. The first step is to make the skills different for each level, in both stats and mechanics. So now, we have 3 different skills, each unlocking depending on the adrenaline level.

The second step is to add a new burst skill in F2, linked to the off-hand weapon. This new skill is different from the one you get from the main-hand weapon, and you get it while wielding a two-handed weapon as well. Also, this skill does not change depending on the adrenaline level, and it always consumes one level. This skill is useful to consume adrenaline and go back to a lower adrenaline level, without having to consume the entire bar.

These changes provide more variety, no longer locking you to the same burst skill all the time, as well as more advanced resource management mechanics.


Berserker - Advanced Primal Burst skills

Some simple changes, following the previous idea. The Berserk skill would be moved to F3, and still consume three levels of adrenaline on activation.

While in Berserker Mode, adrenaline would be limited to a single level, and both F1 and F2 would change to primal burst skills, with a single adrenaline level each. Fire would play a more important role while in berserk mode now.


Spellbreaker - Sunspear Mode

I don't like Full Counter too much. That's all? Just a single new skill in the mechanic bar? The effects on the daggers feel really off too, they don't really fit the rest of the warrior's weapons. These two problems can be fixed at once, through a new mechanic, the mode.

Similar to elementalist attunements, swapping to Sunspear Mode changes your weapon skills and gives them new effects.

Sunspear Mode would be located at F4. Upon activation, all weapon skills would be replaced by new weapon skills, just like elementalist attunements give each weapon skill element-based variations. The new weapon skills would focus on defense, counters, and crowd control. Weapon skills in Sunspear Mode would get the golden effect available to daggers now. Daggers would see this effect removed while in normal mode, and only display it during Sunspear Mode. You can swap between Warrior Mode and Sunspear Mode whenever you want, with a 10s cooldown.

Adrenaline would be limited to two levels, and burst skills would be gone altogether, replaced by new fixed skills in slots F1, F2, and F3. These skills would change their effects depending on the mode, and consume one level of adrenaline. Few examples:

  • Blow Counter: Absorb an incoming melee attack, and counterattack your attacker. In Sunspear Mode, counterattack nearby enemies.
  • Shot Counter: Absorb a ranged attack, and counterattack your attacker. In Sunspear Mode, counterattack nearby enemies.
  • Push Counter: Absorb an incoming melee crowd control effect, and launch your attacker. In Sunspear Mode, knock down nearby enemies.

Finally, meditation skills are now transformed into glyphs, gaining different effects depending on the current mode.


Just some random ideas to begin the thread. Waiting for yours! =)

Profession Redesign series:
Elementalist - Mesmer - Necromancer - Engineer - Ranger - Thief - Guardian - Revenant - Warrior

Comments

  • I really like some of the ideas here, giving more depth to some of the skills to offer more situational use is a big plus.

    I would have to respectfully disagree with daggers as something that does not fit the class, daggers were used for centuries by warriors of various nations. There were distinct fighting forms using daggers from both the eastern and western martial arts. The bottom line is that a dagger fits the Warrior ethos (if used in a skill-full way), and I think the class we play as well.

    Right now my Favorite combo in the game is Dagger 3 and Dagger 4, its a very quick and brutal burst, its takes people by surprise even though the dagger was in plain sight. that's what differentiates it from the Thief version, its more power than cloak and dagger.

    I would like to see some smaller tweaks here and there but I am happy with the weapon set. Great regular skill burst potential, good close range mobility, and a decent reflect.

    Something that has always bothered me is how the Greatsword is just too much of a ingrained thing, I feel its in-game dominance stagnates the class and our discussions.

    In the future I would like to see the spear or crossbow make it to the Warrior stable of weapons.

  • Loading.4503Loading.4503 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 25, 2018

    I like the second burst skill linked to your offhand idea. There’s always suggestions of adding more burst skills but never something as simple as linking it with the offhand, or that I’ve read. It’s sticks with the whole gw2 skills linked to the weapon theme they got. It could give some of the never used offhand potential for usage.

  • Kiroshima.8497Kiroshima.8497 Member ✭✭✭

    Rather than Berserker using just Primal Burst skills, it should commit fully to its Fighting Game trait naming style and use the concept of EX Weapon Skills.

    In many fighting games, you can spend resources to enhance a special move, rather than save up for a Super.

    The warrior's adrenaline is already conveniently broken into 3 sets.
    F1 remains as the Super. But you can only spend 2 or 3 bars, level 1 bursts are locked out.
    F2 is now EX Weapon. It spends 1 bar and your entire weapon bar flips to an enhanced version with independent cooldowns from their base versions.
    F3 is now Berserk Mode, as before. It already acts like an Install Super in fighting games. In addition to Primal Bursts (cheaper supers), it should also be able to use EX Moves at any time in exchange for Berserk Mode ending sooner.

    Instead of Berserk Mode simply being 15 seconds, it copies the adrenaline bar and ticks down 1 per second. Instead of spending Primal Burst adrenaline to use EX moves, you may just spend it directly from Berserk Mode, 10 per use as usual. Basically, you save up 3 bars to gain the ability to have cheaper bursts and let them charge separately from the ex moves (kinda like how Street Fighter 4 has the dual meter system).

    The trait lines could be adjusted to enhance either Supers (burst skills), Berserk Mode (stronger/more durable during Berserk), or EX Skills. Grandmasters don't follow that trend and instead are game style defining (true burning master, lockdown with meter expenditure, or an unstoppable juggernaut).
    Trait changes:
    Last Blaze ~ EX Weapon Skills apply burning per hit.
    Savage Instinct ~ When you enter Berserk Mode, you have 4 bars of reserved adrenaline. Every 10 adrenaline spent (whether primal, automatic ticks, or EX moves) cleanses 1 condition.
    Smash Brawler ~ All Burst Skills generate adrenaline. All Burst Skills (including Primal Bursts) have 15% cooldown reduction.

    Always Angry ~ 5% damage/condition damage, but now can stack (using traits further down).

    Blood Reaction ~ Using a Rage kill makes your next Burst Skill or EX Move free (you have to be able to afford it though) and grants you 1 stack of Always Angry.
    Heat The Soul ~ Burning foes causes them to pulse burning to nearby enemies. Torch skills -20% cooldown, EX Torch Skills -40% cooldown.
    Dead or Alive ~ Heal 1% of your max health for every tick of adrenaline spent or ticked down. If you would die while in Berserk Mode, spend all available Adrenaline and gain health per point (2% per adrenaline, so if you are traited for Savage Instinct and have just entered Berserk Mode, you could gain 100% health but timing is tricky, and every point you spend reduces the healing).

    Fatal Frenzy ~ Berserk Mode pulses those boons every 10 adrenaline spent/lost.

    Bloody Roar ~ No longer increases damage. Taunt enemies whenever you use a Burst Skill, or Enter Berserk Mode. Striking enemies with EX moves causes Taunt (1/4 if ranged, 1/2 if melee). CCing enemies grants you 1 stack of Always Angry (per skill use, not per hit).
    King of Fires ~ Immune to burning while in Berserk Mode. Pulse burning per stack of Always Angry you have. Gaining Fire Aura grants Always Angry.
    Eternal Champion ~ Gain adrenaline when CC'd. Burst skills, EX Move, and Berserk Mode break stun and evade for 1/4 second on use. Successfully breaking a stun grants stability, 10 endurance, and 1 stack of Always Angry.

  • I kinda like the idea of bursts being re-worked into f1,f2,f3 for core warrior and they all 3 do different things. You can only build 3 tiers of adrenaline f1 uses 1 bar, f2 uses 2, and f3 uses 3. Take hammer for example on core warrior they could make f1 be a daze, f2 be a stun and f3 be a launch, or something along those lines. Berserker they could make have it's primal bursts (f4, maybe make warrior store up to 40-50 adrenaline) and change the f1-f3 into primal bursts, and make the adrenaline tick down constantly like necro shroud (except it's not an extra health pool for us) and your attacking still keeps the adrenaline going but it's constantly ticking down and then your primal bursts take more adrenaline away when you use them. The SB full counter (f4) could also toggle your f1-f3 into counters and each counter does something different f1 could block attacks and reflect the damage back on its source for x amount of time. The f2 could evade the next x amount attacks on next hit, and reflect the damage back onto its source. Finally the f3 could taunt enemies into attacking you for x seconds while you evade the next x amount of attacks and reflect the damage back onto its source. I just think a rework of warrior bursts similar to this would be nice. To make it so you can't just f1-f3 abuse the skills probably add a 1-2 sec icd between your different bursts each burst would maintain it's current cd between its own uses.

    #nornmodeisbestmode

  • Rodrick.1942Rodrick.1942 Member ✭✭✭

    I love warrior and I also hope some of its utility skill and weapon/burst skill can upgrade- -- just like what they did to mesmer's traits, rework. But..Well, it should be happen in the first place if they were intended to put a spotlight on this role.

  • Hitman.5829Hitman.5829 Member ✭✭✭✭
    • Make burst do a hell lot of damage and increase their cooldown. Currently, most bursts are a joke, if you see all warrior skills you will realize that there are many weapon skills that do more damage than burst! That is so pathetic considering that warrior is a "distinguished" burst class!
    • Warrior does not have access to a lot of skills, so a way to deal with it would be to make fast hand a base trait and allow warriors to easily swap weapons instead of forcing them to run discipline.

    Charr Warrior Master Race!
    Black Gate Beast Roamer chicken chaser!

  • meepeY.2867meepeY.2867 Member ✭✭
    edited January 28, 2018

    To add to a lot of the great ideas on here, I would absolutely love to see Warriors get better ways to deal with condi other than Resistance. There's a lot of boon stripping/corruption these days and Warrior can struggle pretty hard vs those match-ups. If two equally skilled players clash, Warrior vs Condi build, then the condi guy will almost always win.


    Cleansing Ire isn't too strong with SB, it's okayish with Core and terrible with Berserker. Remember that your burst has to land for the conditions to be removed.

    How about changing Cleansing Ire to: Gain Adrenalin when hit. For every 10 Adrenalin you gain remove one condition & using a Burst Skill removes 1 condition (no ICD)?

    (Small note: If you're sat at max Adrenalin then you're not removing conditions)

    This way, Berserker Stance would remove 3 conditions over 4 seconds, Signet of Precision would remove 3 conditions instantly, Berserk (f2) would remove 1 condition, Outrage would remove almost 1 condition, Sundering Leap would remove 1 condition or 3 conditions if it lands, Wild Blow would remove 1 condition (or 3 if you include Weakness / Blind), Shattering Blow would remove 1 condition, Headbutt would remove 3 conditions. Signet of Rage would be good just to keep the passive for increased condi removal - gives the skill some actual impact/utility on whether you use it or not. It also gives a reason to take Berserker utility skills.

    This way it would give the Last Stand trait some competition for the Grandmaster trail in Defence. With this proposed change to Cleansing Ire, I would suggest a nerf to the resistance gains from Berserker Stance, Featherfoot Grace & Signet of Healing:

    Berserker Stance - Gain Resistance for 2 seconds (instead of reapplying it 4 times, 1 second each application)
    Featherfoot Grace - Gain Resistance for 4 seconds (down from 5)
    Signet of Healing - Gain Resistance for 4 seconds (down from 6)


    Brawlers Recovery is a pretty decent trait but maybe add "if you're lower than 50% HP then cleanse 2 Conditions instead of 1".

    idk, maybe these are too overpowered but I imagine they could be tweaked or worked around.


    Also it goes without saying that some of the trait lines on Warrior are downright garbage:

    Tactics sits in purgatory. It's rarely taken, it's rarely useful, it's out shined by other support classes - it needs a facelift:

    Minor - Determined Revival: When reviving a friendly you both gain Minor Determined Stance - ICD 30 seconds

    T1 #1 - Leg Specialist: When you cripple an opponent apply 2 seconds of Immobilisation - ICD 2 seconds
    T1 #2 - Quick Breathing: Warhorn skills gain additional effects, remove 2 conditions & have a 20% reduced Cooldown
    Warhorn 4: Give 5 seconds of Retaliation & 5 seconds of Regeneration (855 total heal + 0.05*Healing power) to yourself and allies
    Warhorn 5: Give 5 seconds of Fury to yourself and allies & apply 6 seconds of Blind to all(5) enemies hit
    T1 #3 - Empowered: When you apply a boon to an ally gain 2% Increased damage, give the effected ally 1% Increased damage - max 10 stacks, each stack lasts 10 seconds

    Minor - Reviver's Might: Heal for 2500, increase the might to 5 stacks, apply 3 seconds of Protection to yourself and the ally on a successful revive

    T2 #1 - Shrug it off: Increase the conditions required to 2 - increase the conditions removed to 2
    T2 #2 - Burning Arrows: Bow skills inflict 2 stacks of Burning, 1 second duration, same damage, Bow skills have 20% reduced Cooldown
    T2 #3 - Empower Allies: Increased effect to 200 power & now gives 100 precision too

    Minor - Inspire Presence: Each stack of might also gives 5 concentration in addition to the 10 healing power

    T3 #1 - Powerful Synergy: Combo finisher effects are tripled - ICD 3 seconds
    T3 #2 - Vigorous Shouts: Shouts heal for 1350, give 10 Adrenalin, 20% reduced cooldown. Enemies inside the range of shouts are now inflicted with 3 seconds of Weakness
    T3 #3 - Phalanx Strength: When you gain a boon, grant yourself and allies 2 might (3 seconds)

    Obviously, Phalanx Strength is the big one because it's out shined heavily in all aspects of GW2 by other classes. This way, your warrior is a consistent source of might but it has a short duration meaning constant boon appliance is needed to keep the might up time. This way it won't spiral out of control if the warrior is solo (pvp/wvw). Signet of Rage would give 11 Might but only for a short period of time, allowing the Warrior a window to burst. Berserker Stance, which currently applies Resistance 4 times, would give you 8 Might over its duration but you wouldn't actually reach 8 stacks due to the Mights duration - Similarly with Balanced stance. Phalanx Strength would have a good combination with traits which give you boons for solo might application.

    With these trait changes you can take several support or selfish choices which benefit yourself &/or allies whether it be PvE, sPvp or WvW


    The Arms trait line moonlights as the Condition trait line but has identity issues throughout trying to force Precision/Crit but lacks actual viability.

    Whilst some of the traits in the line are decent, I would highlight the following for changes:

    T1 #1 - Wounding Precision: Obviously this trait is meant to mean "take some power gear to compliment the condi" but running anything other than TB or Dire is sub-optimal. Spiting your damage output through Power and Condi tends to lead to lesser damage. Instead I would suggest renaming the trait to suit "Gain Expertise based off of 7% of your Power" because any might you gain would help boost power and condi damage at the same time - It has positive synergy. It also promotes the Tactics line I suggested above for Might stacking.

    T1 #2 - Signet Mastery: Why is this here? Move this to Strength and tie it into Brave Stride. If you really want to keep it in this traitline then you'll need to change it to something more utility based. "Using a Signet grants you 50 Toughness for 60 seconds, max 5 stacks" and I suppose keep the Signet of Might effect for the unblockable attacks.
    If not then rename and change it to something like: Applying a Condition to an enemy heals you for 32 (+0.01*Healing Power)

    T2 #1 - Unsuspecting Foe: Once again, trying to push this critical strike stuff but this trait has no synergy with Wounding Precision or Burst Precision. Instead change it to something like: "Conditions applied to a foe who is disabled have a 20% increase duration"

    T2 #2 - Sundering Burst: Pretty neat skill but once again trying to push the crit theme. Instead of it being a critical hit, I would make it apply the additional 5 stacks of vulnerability if the opponent has 3 or more conditions. "If your opponent is suffering from 3 or more conditions, apply an additional 5 stacks of Vulnerability"

    T3 #1 - Burst Precision: More crit pushing but doesn't work well with the way i'd change Arms. We could keep it burst related but change it from 100% Crit chance to "Burst skills apply 3 Stacks of Bleed & cripple - 5 seconds. This way it has good synergy will most condi weapons and would work quite well with Spellbreaker, potentially uprooting Berseker as the "must use" condi spec. Gives some usefulness to Tactics trait "Leg Specialist"

    T3 #2 - Furious: Change the crit to applying a condition. "Each time you apply a condition to an opponent gain 10 Condition damage and 1 Adrenalin (stacks 25 times, 10s per stack) Keeps the theme going for my proposed Signet Mastery Change & Sundering Burst. I was mulling over in my mind if it should be 1 stack of might for 4 seconds per condition instead of 10+ condi but idk, could be OP.


    Like I said above, not sure exactly how powerful these would be in practice but I hope that it would give some more viability to the trait lines.

    I've got a bunch of other things In mind but now I've only just realised that I've been typing this for over an hour :L

  • Lonami.2987Lonami.2987 Member ✭✭✭

    @sneakytails.5629 said:

    I would have to respectfully disagree with daggers as something that does not fit the class, daggers were used for centuries by warriors of various nations. There were distinct fighting forms using daggers from both the eastern and western martial arts. The bottom line is that a dagger fits the Warrior ethos (if used in a skill-full way), and I think the class we play as well.

    I mean dagger attack aesthetics, not daggers themselves. All those "yellow effects" really stand out as weird. That's why I suggested taking them further and using normal/spellbreaker mode for everything, so you have the normal attacks, and then the yellow effects (for all weapons) when in the second mode, with different weapon skills.

    @sneakytails.5629 said:

    In the future I would like to see the spear or crossbow make it to the Warrior stable of weapons.

    Same here =).

    @Loading.4503 said:
    I like the second burst skill linked to your offhand idea. There’s always suggestions of adding more burst skills but never something as simple as linking it with the offhand, or that I’ve read. It’s sticks with the whole gw2 skills linked to the weapon theme they got. It could give some of the never used offhand potential for usage.

    The current warrior mechanic is just too simple, it needs more options and more variation to compete with the others from a design viewpoint, so yeah, the more the better.

    @Kiroshima.8497 said:
    Rather than Berserker using just Primal Burst skills, it should commit fully to its Fighting Game trait naming style and use the concept of EX Weapon Skills.

    In many fighting games, you can spend resources to enhance a special move, rather than save up for a Super.

    That sounds interesting, maybe more fitting of a thief, but still. Mind trying to explain the core idea for those of us who aren't too much into fighting games?

    @Red Haired Savage.5430 said:
    I kinda like the idea of bursts being re-worked into f1,f2,f3 for core warrior and they all 3 do different things. You can only build 3 tiers of adrenaline f1 uses 1 bar, f2 uses 2, and f3 uses 3. Take hammer for example on core warrior they could make f1 be a daze, f2 be a stun and f3 be a launch, or something along those lines. Berserker they could make have it's primal bursts (f4, maybe make warrior store up to 40-50 adrenaline) and change the f1-f3 into primal bursts, and make the adrenaline tick down constantly like necro shroud (except it's not an extra health pool for us) and your attacking still keeps the adrenaline going but it's constantly ticking down and then your primal bursts take more adrenaline away when you use them. The SB full counter (f4) could also toggle your f1-f3 into counters and each counter does something different f1 could block attacks and reflect the damage back on its source for x amount of time. The f2 could evade the next x amount attacks on next hit, and reflect the damage back onto its source. Finally the f3 could taunt enemies into attacking you for x seconds while you evade the next x amount of attacks and reflect the damage back onto its source. I just think a rework of warrior bursts similar to this would be nice. To make it so you can't just f1-f3 abuse the skills probably add a 1-2 sec icd between your different bursts each burst would maintain it's current cd between its own uses.

    That's a good alternative too. I had a similar idea before, but I ditched it because I wanted the off-hand weapon to have synergy with the burst mechanic too.

    @Hitman.5829 said:

    • Make burst do a hell lot of damage and increase their cooldown. Currently, most bursts are a joke, if you see all warrior skills you will realize that there are many weapon skills that do more damage than burst! That is so pathetic considering that warrior is a "distinguished" burst class!
    • Warrior does not have access to a lot of skills, so a way to deal with it would be to make fast hand a base trait and allow warriors to easily swap weapons instead of forcing them to run discipline.

    Not sure about damage, but I wish burst skills were more impactful. Maybe make them be more CC-centric, so you really feel them?

    Anything is better than the current F1 spam we have. Burst skills should feel important and tactical in my opinion, not just extra weapon skills.

  • DeceiverX.8361DeceiverX.8361 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @sneakytails.5629 said:
    I really like some of the ideas here, giving more depth to some of the skills to offer more situational use is a big plus.

    I would have to respectfully disagree with daggers as something that does not fit the class, daggers were used for centuries by warriors of various nations. There were distinct fighting forms using daggers from both the eastern and western martial arts. The bottom line is that a dagger fits the Warrior ethos (if used in a skill-full way), and I think the class we play as well.

    Right now my Favorite combo in the game is Dagger 3 and Dagger 4, its a very quick and brutal burst, its takes people by surprise even though the dagger was in plain sight. that's what differentiates it from the Thief version, its more power than cloak and dagger.

    I would like to see some smaller tweaks here and there but I am happy with the weapon set. Great regular skill burst potential, good close range mobility, and a decent reflect.

    Something that has always bothered me is how the Greatsword is just too much of a ingrained thing, I feel its in-game dominance stagnates the class and our discussions.

    In the future I would like to see the spear or crossbow make it to the Warrior stable of weapons.

    Ehhhhhh that's a stretch. Daggers had purpose, but they really weren't used at all for martial combat which the warrior is the embodiment of. There's not a single documented case in history of a soldier using a dagger as a primary weapon outside of what basically amounts to folklore. The most it really saw was as a means of execution for those in plate armor in its earlier years; grapple the target, pin him, and try to jam one inside. In Asian cultures, the dagger was used heavily in martial arts, but not in practical martial combat.

    Really, the dagger was more or less a status symbol, something used in bouts and sparring for sport, and as a training tool for what amounted to more or less special diplomatic soldiers which may be unarmored against unarmored foes. It was in essence a tool used in desperation and effectively free to carry given its low weight and small size. Otherwise, strictly ineffective in a combat setting. Nearly everything about dagger efficacy is fantasy and tropes; and the closest effective weapon in that size range we know of is the gladius, but that's a whole different can of worms from a very different time and battle environment. And even those were a minimum of two feet long.

    Not to say that it shouldn't be explored - it's just that citing its use in history is pretty far off the mark. They had fringe cases, sure, but by the 17th century, plate armor technology was getting so advanced that the use of stilettos and rondell daggers was effectively phased out in any practice or training (again, a desperation sidearm); the mace dominated because it was just simply better, and shortly after, the advent of the gun took over.

    You sure that Sniper idea is as good as you thought it was gonna be?
    Because I think my original idea is better.

  • Red Haired Savage.5430Red Haired Savage.5430 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 12, 2018

    @Lonami.2987 said:

    @Red Haired Savage.5430 said:
    I kinda like the idea of bursts being re-worked into f1,f2,f3 for core warrior and they all 3 do different things. You can only build 3 tiers of adrenaline f1 uses 1 bar, f2 uses 2, and f3 uses 3. Take hammer for example on core warrior they could make f1 be a daze, f2 be a stun and f3 be a launch, or something along those lines. Berserker they could make have it's primal bursts (f4, maybe make warrior store up to 40-50 adrenaline) and change the f1-f3 into primal bursts, and make the adrenaline tick down constantly like necro shroud (except it's not an extra health pool for us) and your attacking still keeps the adrenaline going but it's constantly ticking down and then your primal bursts take more adrenaline away when you use them. The SB full counter (f4) could also toggle your f1-f3 into counters and each counter does something different f1 could block attacks and reflect the damage back on its source for x amount of time. The f2 could evade the next x amount attacks on next hit, and reflect the damage back onto its source. Finally the f3 could taunt enemies into attacking you for x seconds while you evade the next x amount of attacks and reflect the damage back onto its source. I just think a rework of warrior bursts similar to this would be nice. To make it so you can't just f1-f3 abuse the skills probably add a 1-2 sec icd between your different bursts each burst would maintain it's current cd between its own uses.

    That's a good alternative too. I had a similar idea before, but I ditched it because I wanted the off-hand weapon to have synergy with the burst mechanic too.

    I had something else as an idea as well, but it didn't interact with the burst, it operated closer to thief dual wielding skills. It was a thread I started, I tried to make the main hand skill 3 fit the purpose of the offhand weapon.
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/29756/mainhand-offhand-weapon-revamp#latest

    #nornmodeisbestmode

  • Kiroshima.8497Kiroshima.8497 Member ✭✭✭

    @Lonami.2987 said:

    @Kiroshima.8497 said:
    Rather than Berserker using just Primal Burst skills, it should commit fully to its Fighting Game trait naming style and use the concept of EX Weapon Skills.

    In many fighting games, you can spend resources to enhance a special move, rather than save up for a Super.

    That sounds interesting, maybe more fitting of a thief, but still. Mind trying to explain the core idea for those of us who aren't too much into fighting games?

    In many fighting games, you have access to a resource that builds up as you deal damage or take damage. Dealing damage typically gives you more than taking damage, so winners win harder but losing still gives you a chance (not a huge difference). You can spend a portion (rather than all of it) to enhance any of your special moves (projectiles are beefier, shoryukens have more invincibility, etc). Or, you can save up all of it to spend on a big attack (a Super). Some Supers can be used to buff the character, instead of dealing damage, and last for a limited time (like Berserk Mode).

    So basically, Berserker Warrior would have access to an F3, which would immediately spend 1 bar of adrenaline. Weapon Skills 2-5 would flip over to an enhanced version.

    Let's take Sword for example:
    Like, Savage Leap could become EX Savage Leap, granting it an Evade. Final Thrust could become EX Final Thrust, which could do bonus damage based on the torment and bleeds. Impale could become EX Impale, an unblockable strike (no longer a projectile, hits 3 targets) that applies a stronger Impaled (2 torment per pulse) to foes. EX Riposte gains a daze and a dash to secure the strike.

    When you enter Berserker Mode, you can spam Burst Skills (supers), or you can freely use EX moves (reducing the duration of Berserk Mode).

  • Crinn.7864Crinn.7864 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 12, 2018

    @DeceiverX.8361 said:
    and the closest effective weapon in that size range we know of is the gladius, but that's a whole different can of worms from a very different time and battle environment. And even those were a minimum of two feet long.

    Most of the "daggers" in this game are 2ft long, and many appear to be even longer.

    Sanity is for the weak minded
    YouTube

  • DeceiverX.8361DeceiverX.8361 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Crinn.7864 said:

    @DeceiverX.8361 said:
    and the closest effective weapon in that size range we know of is the gladius, but that's a whole different can of worms from a very different time and battle environment. And even those were a minimum of two feet long.

    Most of the "daggers" in this game are 2ft long, and many appear to be even longer.

    And are wielded and swung in ludicrous ways.

    Not saying it shouldn't be the case; just that using the "realism" argument is not a valid one in the slightest.

    You sure that Sniper idea is as good as you thought it was gonna be?
    Because I think my original idea is better.

  • Lonami.2987Lonami.2987 Member ✭✭✭

    Revisiting the redesign ideas in a short way, plus some new elite specialization ideas to see how this redesign would improve future content too:

    • Warrior: Burst skills get an upgrade. Now mechanic skill F1 has a different skill with different effects depending on the adrenaline level, and not just a damage boost. This means every main-hand and two-handed weapon now has three different unique burst skills. Additionally, warriors get a new F2 mechanic skill, providing a fourth burst, tied to the active off-hand or two-handed weapon, independent from adrenaline level. The F1 burst consumes the whole adrenaline bar no matter the level, but the F2 burst only consumes a level. This lets you switch back to lower F1 levels without resetting the adrenaline bar. For example, when you're at max adrenaline, F1 is at level 3, but if want to use F1 level 2, you can use F2 to consume a level, turning F1 back into level 2.

    • Berserker: Berserk is moved to mechanic slot F3. Upon activation, both F1 and F2 are replaced by individual primal bursts, with a single adrenaline level each. Condition damage, specially burning, plays a much prominent role now.

    • Spellbreaker: Adrenaline and burst skills are gone. New mechanic skill F4 allows the warrior to swap to Sunspear mode, upgrading weapon skills, much like elementalist attunements. Sunspear mode weapon skills are much more tactical and defensive than normal skills, and have various yellow effects. You can swap to Sunspear mode whenever you want, with only cooldown restrictions. Mechanic skills F1, F2, and F3 include three new counter skills, letting you absorb melee, ranged, and area damage, to then counterattack nearby enemies. Counter skills are not affected by the mode you're in. Glyphs replace meditations as the new slot skills, having different effects depending on the mode.

    • Gladiator: The new mechanic is the pit beast. Mechanic skills F3, F4, and F5 provide controls similar to those of ranger pets. There's no pet swap, but your beast can equip three different armor options, changing its visual appearance and attributes. The available beast options are Hound (half rock dog half lion), Serpent (half hydra half eel), and Phoenix (great bird of prey), each being able to equip spiked, bladed, or reinforced armor. Pit beasts are specially effective against other companion creatures. The new mantra slot skills let you command your pit beast further.

    • Dreadnought: The new mechanic is heavy weapon kits, much like those used by engineers. You equip a single kit in mechanic slot F3. There's three kits to choose from, these being Heavy Flamethrower, Heavy Machine Gun, and Energy Cannon (like the one used by the Aetherblades). All three kits slow you down and disable dodging while active. You can equip them freely with no restrictions. Explosive mine traps are the new slot skills.

    • Thunderlord: Adrenaline and burst skills are gone. The new mechanic is runes, working in a similar way to scourge shades. You mark the ground with a rune, and then thunder strikes it at your command. Mechanic skill F1 places a rune, and mechanic skills F2, F3, and F4 cast weapon spells using the runes as a conduit. F2 and F3 are determined by the main-hand weapon, and F4 is determined by the off-hand weapon. The new scepter weapon and the new elixir slot skills let you interact with the runes in further ways.

    @Kiroshima.8497 said:

    @Lonami.2987 said:

    @Kiroshima.8497 said:
    Rather than Berserker using just Primal Burst skills, it should commit fully to its Fighting Game trait naming style and use the concept of EX Weapon Skills.

    In many fighting games, you can spend resources to enhance a special move, rather than save up for a Super.

    That sounds interesting, maybe more fitting of a thief, but still. Mind trying to explain the core idea for those of us who aren't too much into fighting games?

    In many fighting games, you have access to a resource that builds up as you deal damage or take damage. Dealing damage typically gives you more than taking damage, so winners win harder but losing still gives you a chance (not a huge difference). You can spend a portion (rather than all of it) to enhance any of your special moves (projectiles are beefier, shoryukens have more invincibility, etc). Or, you can save up all of it to spend on a big attack (a Super). Some Supers can be used to buff the character, instead of dealing damage, and last for a limited time (like Berserk Mode).

    So basically, Berserker Warrior would have access to an F3, which would immediately spend 1 bar of adrenaline. Weapon Skills 2-5 would flip over to an enhanced version.

    Let's take Sword for example:
    Like, Savage Leap could become EX Savage Leap, granting it an Evade. Final Thrust could become EX Final Thrust, which could do bonus damage based on the torment and bleeds. Impale could become EX Impale, an unblockable strike (no longer a projectile, hits 3 targets) that applies a stronger Impaled (2 torment per pulse) to foes. EX Riposte gains a daze and a dash to secure the strike.

    When you enter Berserker Mode, you can spam Burst Skills (supers), or you can freely use EX moves (reducing the duration of Berserk Mode).

    Pretty interesting, thanks for sharing. It's more tactical than the berserker, that's for sure. Still feel like it would fit thief better.

  • Lonami.2987Lonami.2987 Member ✭✭✭

    Warrior is kinda hard to redesign, but after a lot of time, I think I have gotten the gist of it.

    My main goal is to give warrior a meaningful core mechanic, where the burst skills are more than just some extra weapon skill. I have increased burst skills from one to three, and integrated them into a burst combo system. To top it off, I added a berserker-like transformation to the core profession, providing an adrenaline and stat boost, to let you "frenzy" significantly in the middle of battle, and recharge adrenaline fast to refresh the combo system after a failure.


    Warrior

    • Adrenaline retains its original resource functionality. The maximum level of adrenaline is 30.
    • Mechanic slot F1 contains a transformation skill now, called Rampage. Activation grants an attribute boost, including a reduction of incoming damage and an attack speed boost. Additionally, it enables an automatic adrenaline regeneration. The transformation does not replace neither weapon nor slot skills.
    • New mechanic skills F2, F3, and F4 contain burst skills now, determined by the active weapons. F2 and F3 are determined by the main-hand weapon, and F4 is determined by the off-hand weapon. Each of them consumes 10/30 of the adrenaline bar, and have no cooldown.
    • Each burst skill is divided in three tiers, each increasing the strength of the previous tier. You unlock tiers 2 and 3 by successfully performing chain attacks with any of the three burst skills.
    • Banners can no longer be wielded, remaining where you placed them. Their effects are now stronger, but enemies can destroy them as well.
    • Physical skills have been reclassified as Tricks. The Rampage elite skill has been removed.

    Berserker

    • Maximum adrenaline level has been increased from 30 to 50.
    • Rampage has been updated to Berserker's Rampage, providing stronger transformation effects.
    • Burst skills have two additional tiers now. Tiers 4 and 5 can be unlocked after tier 3, by continuing to perform successful chain attacks.
    • Rage skills have been reclassified as Physical.
    • Torch keeps most of its functions intact.

    Spellbreaker

    • Rampage has been replaced by Spellbreaker's Mark. Cast a mark upon an enemy target, afflicting him with a negative effect that makes him more vulnerable to your attacks.
    • Burst skills no longer have tiers, being locked to the strength of tier 1 instead. However, burst skills now gain additional effects when used against marked targets.
    • Daggers and Cantrips keep most of their functions intact.

    If you've checked the other profession redesign threads, you'll know my primary goal is to normalize core mechanics, and build elite specializations from a dual profession viewpoint, mechanic-wise. Berserker is a double warrior, and spellbreaker uses marks, the new thief core mechanic inspired by the deadeye.

    Some new elite specialization ideas to see how the changes could affect them, based on the new core mechanics of ranger, engineer, and elementalist:


    Forgemaster

    • Rampage has been replaced by Forged Beast. You can equip two beasts at once, and swap between them using mechanic skill F5. Use mechanic skill F1 to summon your current beast.
    • There are four beasts to choose from: Devourer, Hound, Rider, and Serpent.
    • Summoning a beast replaces mechanic skill F1 with an attack command skill, letting you swap the beast's target. While the beast is active, tier 2 burst skills will also be replaced with beast burst skills.
    • Staff is the new weapon, used as a melee weapon with beast support options.
    • Mantras are the new slot skills, letting you perform combos with your beast.

    Dreadnought

    • Rampage has been replaced by Dreadnought's Kit. You can equip two kits at once, and swap between them using mechanic skill F5. Use mechanic skill F1 to activate or deactivate your current kit. Each kit has a limited ammunition supply, and will deactivate automatically if it runs out. Ammunition only recharges by swapping kits back and forth.
    • There are four kits to choose from: Flamethrower, Elixir Gun, Energy Cannon, and Machine Gun. They're visually identical to engineer kits, but provide different weapon skills.
    • Burst skills are affected by kit activation, unlocking new kit burst skills.
    • Pistols are the new weapon, providing ranged direct damage.
    • Grenades are the new slot skills, providing ranged area of effect damage.

    Thunderlord

    • Rampage has been replaced by Thunderlord's Rampage. Transforming now upgrades your weapon and burst skills as well, using dwarven magic to infuse them with the power of thunder.
    • Scepters are the new weapon, providing close combat direct damage.
    • Elixirs are the new slot skills, letting you get drunk to increase your combat prowess.

    That's it! I'm pretty glad I managed to do something original for the warrior, and I hope you liked it!

    And remember, this thread is just for fun, so feel free to post any ideas you have, even if you believe there's no way they could be happening.

  • Since I'm only just back after having not played since launch I don't have a paragraph to write. Simply put, let warrior be straight DPS again like it used to be and stop trying to force it into a more supporting role via banners. Both routes should be viable. I speak mainly in terms of PvE since I don't participate in GW2 PvP.

©2010–2018 ArenaNet, LLC. All rights reserved. Guild Wars, Guild Wars 2, Heart of Thorns, Guild Wars 2: Path of Fire, ArenaNet, NCSOFT, the Interlocking NC Logo, and all associated logos and designs are trademarks or registered trademarks of NCSOFT Corporation. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners.