This community has lost the authority to ask for soulbeast buffs.

Soulbeast is based on traits, not meta pets. Hundreds of many complaints about Rock Gazelle doesn't fix the spec, they fix the Rock Gazelle family ferocious archetype.

If everyone stops experimenting with non meta pets/traits the community is no longer part of the discussion on balance.

Predator's Cunning is a perfect example.

• Recently I noticed that poison gas (soulbeast) broken range had been fixed and Predator's Cunning was working for pet poison fields. No one cared because spider/murellow/devourer weren't meta.
• I tested with longbow and the cause of the bug appears to be pet poison fields recieved the same update as PG(S) and are being cast using the player's range. This hasn't affected other fields to my knowledge.
• Was this an accident or are they testing something? Either way, the community has had zero input.

It doesn't matter if you don't use those pets. Predator's cunning is the only damage option that tier has and is essential to the raid dps build. But ambidexterity/refined toxins/poison master compete with shared anguish/wilderness survival so that extra damage is harder to justify in PvP. How they fix this issue with the pet poison fields will affect how they balance predator cunning going forward. How can you ask for more damage in PvP without understanding a major damage trait raids use?"

This community has virtually stopped theorycrafting since beta but not stopped complaining. Why would devs ever listen to anything we say anymore? Soulbeast is based on all of the traits/pets, and we are only giving feedback on some of them.

It's time we start exploring things again like we did during beta, or just shut up and work with whatever they give us.

Edit:Tldr; **if you want more from Soulbeast traits you need to know how all other traits/pets interact with it and use that information in your suggestion. Otherwise, Anet will still have to test each and every trait/pet to understand whether your suggestion is a good or bad idea.

I think ppl don't talk about Predator's Cunning and other pets like condition pets, because in sPVP and WvW condi build for ranger/druid/soulbeast didn't work well. Our condi weapons are almost useless ... at least for WvW is zero. On sPVP you can play a condi build, because many time you should stay on the point and the fights are on the points, so poison field etc will work.I know that GW2 is not only about sPVP and WvW, but here on forum, many of us are doing only these and if in PVE if your damage is not bigger than other player is not a big issue (well sometimes it is ... but still) , in sPVP and WvW other way , if your damage/sustain is not equal with your opponent, you are just dead. That's why ppl don't talk too much about anything regarding condition ... Dagger is useless, Shortbow do too less damage and you have too little mobility etc.But I am glad that you put this thing into discussion.

PS: some of us are more concern to explain to developer how to nerf their own class :D :D :D

@Daniel Handler.4816 said:Soulbeast is based on traits, not meta pets. Hundreds of complaints about Rock Gazelle doesn't fix the spec, they fix the Rock Gazelle family ferocious archetype.

If everyone stops experimenting with traits the community is no longer part of the discussion on balance.

Predator's Cunning is a perfect example.

• Recently I noticed that poison gas (soulbeast) broken range had been fixed and Predator's Cunning was working for pet poison fields. No one cared because spider/murellow/devourer weren't meta.
• I tested with longbow and the cause of the bug appears to be pet poison fields recieved the same update as PG(S) and are being cast using the player's range. This hasn't affected other fields to my knowledge.
• Was this an accident or are they testing something? Either way the community has had zero input.

It doesn't matter if you don't use those pets. Predator's cunning is the only damage option that tier has and is essential to the raid dps build. But ambidexterity/refined toxins/poison master compete with shared anguish/wilderness survival so that extra damage is harder to justify in PvP.

How they fix this issue with the pet poison fields will affect how they balance predator cunning going forward. And will affect the dps potential of soulbeast in all modes.

This community has virtually stopped theorycrafting since beta but loopcomplaining. Why would devs ever listen to people on anything when we, myself included, don't understand how all the traits and pets interact?

Saying not enough dps, or core pets suck, means absolutely nothing to a developer. It's time we start exploring things again like we did during beta, or just shut up and work with whatever they give us.

Edit: try to make a good build using non meta traits/pets. Figure out why it does/doesn't work. Then make suggestions based off that. Don't suggest new trait and skill until you can show you have explored the old ones.

well not sure if this is exploring but i tried moment of clarity trait on gazelle while on beastmode the charge skill that dazes but doesnt even work. invigorating bond on jacaranda doesnt work.

I'm confused. What are you objecting to exactly? Are you objecting specifically to focused discussions of the Rock Gazelle, or are you making a more general point? If the former then I'm puzzled because (going by thread subject lines on the front page of the ranger subforum) I'm not seeing any threads specifically about that point (can you point me to a recent sample of the "Hundreds of complaints"?). If it's a more general point then I'm equally puzzled because I'm not sure what it is you want.Are you trying to suggest you'd like to see trait change suggestions rather than pet change suggestions? If that's the case I think it's fair to say there have been plenty of suggestions and discussions of potential trait changes particularly during the beta. Also remember that a number of the ranger/soulbeast pet changes that have been requested and/or delivered so far have been bug fixes, e.g. the Pack Alpha changes to the new PoF pets; indeed the major changes made to the Rock Gazelle were apparently made to close an outlier case that arose due to unexpected behaviour.Or are you asking to see more "non-meta pet" builds discussed on this forum? If so you'll probably have to define which pets are meta - right now my PvE power build uses Smokescale & Pig/Siamoth and (within certain use cases) I would argue that it's good. Am I allowed to make suggestions?Or is it something else? I'd like to engage constructively here, but I'm struggling.

Plenty of people have spoken out, just scroll down the pages. Rock Gazelle is still not fixed, people just stopped talking about it, because they don't have the willpower anymore. Have you even tried to play it before saying it's fixed ? Nobody care about spider/murellow/devourer, because they are terrible and many people asked buffs to old pets.

You come as patronizing. Really, the community is not getting paid to do their work, so get down of your high horse.

Predator's Cunning was working for pet poison fields

Most of ranger players knew that. Also, it's not your + little damage and healing per poison application that will do any difference in your DPS.

@"Krispera.5087" said:Plenty of people have spoken out, just scroll down the pages. Rock Gazelle is still not fixed, people just stopped talking about it, because they don't have the willpower anymore. Have you even tried to play it before saying it's fixed ? Nobody care about spider/murellow/devourer, because they are terrible and many people asked buffs to old pets.

You come as patronizing. Really, the community is not getting paid to do their work, so get down of your high horse.

I don't know how to approach your comment. I am concerned about how I come across but you also clearly sped read through the post.

I didn't say Rock Gazelle was fixed. I said hundreds of complains will fix the pet but not the spec. Its an ongoing processes, motivated by players speak out. Once you lose the willpower to speak, it stops. The greasy wheels gets the oil.

I also said it doenst matter if they are terrible. The traits you do like will be balanced on the traits/pets you don't. And you if you can't acknowledge those interactions in your complaints anet has nothing to work with. "Buff old pets" is a non-descriptive request.

Does it matter if its not your job or that you've lost willpower? Anet isn't going to do it without pressure.

I am concerned about how I come across but you also clearly sped read through the post.

I don't know ? Start with your title or asking people to shut up ?

Once you lose the willpower to speak, it stops. The greasy wheels gets the oil.

Plenty of ranger players make threads and asking things to get fixed. It's like you're saying nobody do anything when it's not the case.

if you can't acknowledge those interactions in your complaints anet has nothing to work with. "Buff old pets" is a non-descriptive request.

You think nobody understand the interactions ? That you woke up and now it's all clear for you, but not for us ? Nobody tried to put lights on them ?

You think the devs have no idea of what's wrong with the professions ? They have PLENTY to work with based suggestions coming from players and not just ranger forum. I believe they are just understaffed and overwhelmed.

@"Professor Sprout.1560" said:I'm confused. What are you objecting to exactly? Are you objecting specifically to focused discussions of the Rock Gazelle, or are you making a more general point? If the former then I'm puzzled because (going by thread subject lines on the front page of the ranger subforum) I'm not seeing any threads specifically about that point (can you point me to a recent sample of the "Hundreds of complaints"?). If it's a more general point then I'm equally puzzled because I'm not sure what it is you want.Are you trying to suggest you'd like to see trait change suggestions rather than pet change suggestions? If that's the case I think it's fair to say there have been plenty of suggestions and discussions of potential trait changes particularly during the beta. Also remember that a number of the ranger/soulbeast pet changes that have been requested and/or delivered so far have been bug fixes, e.g. the Pack Alpha changes to the new PoF pets; indeed the major changes made to the Rock Gazelle were apparently made to close an outlier case that arose due to unexpected behaviour.Or are you asking to see more "non-meta pet" builds discussed on this forum? If so you'll probably have to define which pets are meta - right now my PvE power build uses Smokescale & Pig/Siamoth and (within certain use cases) I would argue that it's good. Am I allowed to make suggestions?Or is it something else? I'd like to engage constructively here, but I'm struggling.

They spent more time designing the spec than any other, but they aren't spending more time balancing it. It's not our job to help them but if we do nothing this will take forever.

If the community plays a meta, Anet only receives continual feedback on the meta which doesn't help fixing Soulbeast/Ranger. They are balanced using all traits/pets including the ones people think are terrible. With no feedback on the "bad" combinations, its up to Anet to sort through dozens and dozens of skills any time they want to fix the spec.They are already behind so all we are getting is bug fixes. If people actually tested old traits/bad pets again and pressured ANET like we did during beta, they would have a lot more data and motivation. Maybe then they could spend more time improving Soulbeast/Ranger.

What I want is for people community to start theorycrafting again. The more bugs we find, and the most pro/cons we identify outside of the meta the more time Anet will have to actually balance the profession.

I think there is some misconception that the amount of feedback is related to the amount of work done for 'fixes/balance'. how are people making that conclusion? Some assumption that Anet doesn't want negative feedback on the forum, so they fix things faster? Not sure that's sound.

@"Krispera.5087" said:

I am concerned about how I come across but you also clearly sped read through the post.

Once you lose the willpower to speak, it stops. The greasy wheels gets the oil.

if you can't acknowledge those interactions in your complaints anet has nothing to work with. "Buff old pets" is a non-descriptive request.

This community is not helping their staffing problem in the slightest

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/categories/ranger

How many pages do I have to go through to find discussions on balance that puts light on interactions? At this point either you can't read, or you are in serious denial about how oblivious this community is to Anet's time constraints.

People seriously want Anet to sift through 50+ pets because they can't be bothered to test how their suggestions would interact and present the data.

Let's pretend we are a Dev and we look at the Ranger subforum right now. First ten titles not including my post.https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/26291/fun-duals#latest -not balancehttps://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/26099/pew-pew-on-stealth-enemy#latest -asking for nerfs to Rangerhttps://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/26197/pets-activation-deactivation#latest - l2p issue addressed by commentershttps://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/25143/ranger-druid-soulbeast-fix-needed#latest - more on this one belowhttps://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/25900/what-if-ancient-seeds-would-be-available-for-core-ranger#latest - general request, no interactionshttps://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/26307/versatile-pet-stats-not-versatile-enough#latest - general requestion, no interactionshttps://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/25761/next-elite-spec-ideas#latest - not balancehttps://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/13652/lb-kneel-skills-for-balance#latest -says balance, is not balanced. No interactions, instead talks about longbow as if weapons are balanced in a vacuum, rather than with pets/traits. Also suggestion hated by commentershttps://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/26155/video-wvw-druid-roaming#latest - not balance

I said I'd discuss this one.https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/25143/ranger-druid-soulbeast-fix-needed#latest

Let's look at your suggestion in particular:

For Rangers in general, their PROFESSION MECHANIC, aka PETS, needs to have a re-haul.

For Core Ranger : Weapon Swap traits in Skirmishing and Opening Strike in Marksmanship need to change. Poison traits in WS need to be merged. A buff to Nature Magic would be nice (It feels meh).

Druid is in a good position, some traits are better than others, but I can find an use to all of them. Most useless ones are like the Staff trait, the + heal on Heal and blind on Heal.

SBeast needs lots of changes, because half of the traits are useless. Same with the pets skills in BeastMode. It needs animation shaving and buff to many many things.

Weapons that need to be looked at are : Dagger MH/OH, Axe MH/OH, Sword's leap, WH 4 and Torch's Throw Torch.Skills that need to be looked at are : Strength of the Pack, Spirit of Nature, Signet of the Wild ACTIVE, Spirits (out of Raids/Instances) and their crappy actives, then Traps in general.

Not at a single mention of interactions. Just I hate this, I like this, look at this. What does that even mean? Why do you hate it, why do you like it, why should they look at it, why should they listen to you? With the exception of spirits, you gave the Devs no information to even untangle what mode you are talking about.

You want fixes to skirmishing, poison traits, dagger MH, traps, Live Fast, Predator's Cunning, Leader of the Pack, or traps but all of those have meta usage in the raid builds. And the raid theorycrafters actually put out a ton of data for anet to use, even though they aren't being paid either. https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Soulbeast_-_Condition_Stance_Share

You didn't help, you just told them where more work was. So your suggestion means nothing until Anet has the time to test it against the data the raiders have presented.**

@Obtena.7952 said:I think there is some misconception that the amount of feedback is related to the amount of work done for 'fixes/balance'. how are people making that conclusion? Some assumption that Anet doesn't want negative feedback on the forum, so they fix things faster? Not sure that's sound.

I think the real misconception is how to give feedback on an issue.

• Good feedback is related to the amount of work done because it is constructive. For example, a very clear and reproducible bug report make fixing a bug take less time.
• Weak feedback is not related to the amount of work done. It clearly identifies a problem but does not provide anything constructive towards its solution.
• Bad feedback is anything that does not easily identify a problem. Now anet has to decipher the request AND test it.

This forum has a lot of weak and bad feedback that is drowning out any good. People who refuse to explore the pros and cons of their suggestion and think Anet has the time to test it.

Where are even your suggestions ? That's right, you barely have any.

You took the first page of the ranger forum and that was it ? That's how you made your conclusion ? Many ranger players posted good suggestions over the years and it's not like they just noticed the game has a forum. Do you really think they go at their job, do nothing and suddenly they forgot they had a forum and read all the pages ?

All you been doing so far is whining about people giving not enough suggestions when you're giving none.

Not at a single mention of interactions. Just I hate this, I like this, look at this. What does that even mean? Why do you hate it, why do you like it, why should they look at it, why should they listen to you? With the exception of spirits, you gave the Devs no information to even untangle what mode you are talking about.

You want fixes to skirmishing, poison traits, dagger MH, traps, Live Fast, Predator's Cunning, Leader of the Pack, or traps but all of those have meta usage in the raid builds. And the raid theorycrafters actually put out a ton of data for anet to use, even though they aren't being paid either. https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Soulbeast_-_Condition_Stance_Share

You hate my suggestions, because you understood none of it. Also, it had enough ''tumbs up'' from other posters. Do you think Dev are that clueless about their interactions ? If you played Ranger enough, you would know those are the traits that need to be looked at. Opening Strikes ? Do I have to explain to you that it only works when you get in combat or only with Remorseless Fury ? Gotta spoon feed you that interaction ?

Did you actually made the thread, because you were afraid they would nerf something about raid builds ? Do you think I asked for nerfs when I enumerated ? You think raid theorycrafters are the only ones making builds ?

You actually said Predator's Cunning is the only ''DPS'' choice in the second row of Soulbeast, do you not think the other two needs to be looked on then ? Second Skin has it's use in PvP. Since you're afraid I said something about Live Fast, don't you think it would be more USEFULL for the QUICKNESS to be BEFORE or AT CASTING and not AFTER ? Both for PvE and PvP ? Then, that way maybe you'll see people use Essence of Speed, which barely nobody do ? That ? What I just wrote ? It has been talked many times, not by just me, by many many many others.

Do your homework and go read other posters before saying nobody have done shit.

They spent more time designing the spec than any other, but they aren't spending more time balancing it.

No they didn't. The only thing we are sure, is that it's Weaver.

This forum has a lot of weak and bad feedback that is drowning out any good. People who refuse to explore the pros and cons of their suggestion and think Anet has the time to test it.

Now you're just being pedantic.Not going to keep entertaining you anymore anyways. Stay on your high horse, I'm fine.

@Daniel Handler.4816 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:I think there is some misconception that the amount of feedback is related to the amount of work done for 'fixes/balance'. how are people making that conclusion? Some assumption that Anet doesn't want negative feedback on the forum, so they fix things faster? Not sure that's sound.

• Good feedback is related to the amount of work done because it is constructive. For example, a very clear and reproducible bug report make fixing a bug take less time.
• Weak feedback is not related to the amount of work done. It clearly identifies a problem but does not provide anything constructive towards its solution.
• Bad feedback is anything that does not easily identify a problem. Now anet has to decipher the request AND test it.

I am sorry if my comment will upset you ... but I think many of us bought this game to play it and not to spend hours/days/weeks/months to do theorycrafting. If Anet don't have time to check all 50 terrestrial pets and another 21 water pets is his problem. I will not spend from my time to check all these pets if they properly work or not. If you are one of those guys who can play 24/24 then be my guest and test them, I (and ranger community) will be grateful to you till the end of this game. From my little time I have for GW2 , I already spent and said a lot of my opinion/observation about ranger. And also most of players from this forum did. Don't ask us to do Anet job. Maybe they put from the beginning too many pets in this game with too many different abilities. Maybe they should take off some of them and let only 10 ... 5 for power and 5 for condition. I am civil engineer, ofc if population of this planet want better houses, roads, bridges ... they can help me and other engineers , by spending their free time, making theorycrafting :D ...

Anyway, you start a little bit too salty in my opinion. I know your intentions are good, but don't blame players for Anet mistakes and bugs. Just focus on your theorycrafting, and ask other players to help you. I think will be better and more productive than argue with ppl.

PS: I just saw that you already made another post. GJ and keep it on like this.

@Krispera.5087 said:Where are even your suggestions ? That's right, you barely have any.

You took the first page of the ranger forum and that was it ? That's how you made your conclusion ? Many ranger players posted good suggestions over the years and it's not like they just noticed the game has a forum. Do you really think they go at their job, do nothing and suddenly they forgot they had a forum and read all the pages ?

All you been doing so far is whining about people giving not enough suggestions when you're giving none.

You already said they were understaffed and overwhelmed. Now you expect them to read any pages. Bullcrap. They look at the forum on their personal time and what the forum moderators tell them.

They don't sit by the computer waiting and waiting for a useful post to appear. I took the first page and scanned the titles of the other pages. An anet employee is not going to do more. There is no point using @ to tag developers because so do all the crazy people who complain.

Not at a single mention of interactions. Just I hate this, I like this, look at this. What does that even mean? Why do you hate it, why do you like it, why should they look at it, why should they listen to you? With the exception of spirits, you gave the Devs no information to even untangle what mode you are talking about.

You want fixes to skirmishing, poison traits, dagger MH, traps, Live Fast, Predator's Cunning, Leader of the Pack, or traps but all of those have meta usage in the raid builds. And the raid theorycrafters actually put out a ton of data for anet to use, even though they aren't being paid either.

https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Soulbeast_-_Condition_Stance_Share

Again. You said anet is understaffed and overwhelmed. The people who balance ranger also balance other professions. They don't keep everything memorized. They don't all main ranger. But you don't care about that.

You are so arrogant on the importance of this class that you expect Anet to know what you are talking about. Don't spoon feed me, spoon feed them so they don't have to spend even more time trying to decipher your request.

Did you actually made the thread, because you were afraid they would nerf something about raid builds ? Do you think I asked for nerfs when I enumerated ? You think raid theorycrafters are the only ones making builds ?

I don't raid. Ever. But I can recognize that raid theorycrafters put more effort in discussions than you ever have. Unless you have another account or comment on some other forum, you need to be way more specific or ANET will take always take their side.

@Dragonzhunter.8506 said:

@Daniel Handler.4816 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:I think there is some misconception that the amount of feedback is related to the amount of work done for 'fixes/balance'. how are people making that conclusion? Some assumption that Anet doesn't want negative feedback on the forum, so they fix things faster? Not sure that's sound.

• Good feedback is related to the amount of work done because it is constructive. For example, a very clear and reproducible bug report make fixing a bug take less time.
• Weak feedback is not related to the amount of work done. It clearly identifies a problem but does not provide anything constructive towards its solution.
• Bad feedback is anything that does not easily identify a problem. Now anet has to decipher the request AND test it.

I am not upset but I am salty. I am expecting the community to do more. Collectively they have the time even if anet doesn't. It shouldn't be up to individuals to sort through all of this. The issue as I see it is all professions got disinterested after beta, but this hurts Soulbeast much more because they received the most skills. We have to generate more quality feedback than anyone else to receive the same percentage of attention to issues.

Right now the raid community has put forth the only meta Soulbeast build and they've published their work on various forums/sites. If Anet didn't understand how those builds work, then they do now. Anet doesn't seem to understand Ranger in PvP. And if we don't help them it's going to take a long time for them to figure it all out. It's not that we can't expect them to sort through all this information. Its that they are short-staffed and human. If we want things done quicker we have to help out.

Its the same theory behind a bug report. We need to be clear and provide testable data. I like this and I hate this don't work. And letting good posts be drowned out by posts on other topics doesn't work either.

@Daniel Handler.4816 said:

I am not upset but I am salty. I am expecting the community to do more. Collectively they have the time even if anet doesn't. It shouldn't be up to individuals to sort through all of this. The issue as I see it is all professions got disinterested after beta, but this hurts Soulbeast much more because they received the most skills. We have to generate more quality feedback than anyone else to receive the same percentage of attention to issues.

Right now the raid community has put forth the only meta Soulbeast build and they've published their work on various forums/sites. If Anet didn't understand how those builds work, then they do now. Anet doesn't seem to understand Ranger in PvP. And if we don't help them it's going to take a long time for them to figure it all out. It's not that we can't expect them to sort through all this information. Its that they are short-staffed and human. If we want things done quicker we have to help out.

Its the same theory behind a bug report. We need to be clear and provide testable data. I like this and I hate this don't work. And letting good posts be drowned out by posts on other topics doesn't work either.

Somehow I am agree with you. I saw many rangers who spent their time to explain how to nerf ranger class instead of how to fix it (class and pets).

@Dragonzhunter.8506 said:

@Daniel Handler.4816 said:

I am not upset but I am salty. I am expecting the community to do more. Collectively they have the time even if anet doesn't. It shouldn't be up to individuals to sort through all of this. The issue as I see it is all professions got disinterested after beta, but this hurts Soulbeast much more because they received the most skills. We have to generate more quality feedback than anyone else to receive the same percentage of attention to issues.

Right now the raid community has put forth the only meta Soulbeast build and they've published their work on various forums/sites. If Anet didn't understand how those builds work, then they do now. Anet doesn't seem to understand Ranger in PvP. And if we don't help them it's going to take a long time for them to figure it all out. It's not that we can't expect them to sort through all this information. Its that they are short-staffed and human. If we want things done quicker we have to help out.

Its the same theory behind a bug report. We need to be clear and provide testable data. I like this and I hate this don't work. And letting good posts be drowned out by posts on other topics doesn't work either.

They think nerf = buff somewhere else. They hate the meta and will say anything they think will get their favourite playstyle buffed, even if it could lead to Ranger not being meta anymore.

Remember people only give you maximum three chances. More than that we just move on or pass on. Either play other classes or other MMO games.

In WvW perspective, medium armor classes need lots of buffs to stay in zerg fight. Especially the ranger Shortbow is useless anywhere.In rank PvPs, if the team has more than two thieves or same medium armor classes, most players start to worry about this team is going to fail. Class balance is laughable.In raids, you won't see 10 go go power rangers in a team.

Fix ranger, players talk about fix the pet name, sword etc. It took Anet about 4 years to do it. At least they did it, Great job.Nerf ranger, haha you sure he/she is a good ranger player. Or something else.

I can understand the importance of looking at trait interactions across game-modes before making sweeping changes. However, Predator's Cunning is hardly a PvE DPS oriented trait, it is only taken due to everything else in that line being mostly useless within a raid, it offers barely noticable damage. If anything I'd balance Predator's Cunning around the amount of healing it can provide when you're pumping out tons of poison.

I think you'll see much more definitive PvE feedback simply because everything is so fixed and testable. It's more difficult to balance PvP since it is more complex and everyone has different opinions regarding what is good and what works.

@Dragonzhunter.8506 said:

@Daniel Handler.4816 said:

@"Obtena.7952" said:I think there is some misconception that the amount of feedback is related to the amount of work done for 'fixes/balance'. how are people making that conclusion? Some assumption that Anet doesn't want negative feedback on the forum, so they fix things faster? Not sure that's sound.

• Good feedback is related to the amount of work done because it is constructive. For example, a very clear and reproducible bug report make fixing a bug take less time.
• Weak feedback is not related to the amount of work done. It clearly identifies a problem but does not provide anything constructive towards its solution.
• Bad feedback is anything that does not easily identify a problem. Now anet has to decipher the request AND test it.

definitely agree on this, I think ANet or balance team is having a hard time, i dont even know how many from the balance team are responsible for ranger? lets think about that for a second. a lot of suggestions in the forums but in ranger forums specifically, when was the last time we got a response from a dev in one of our post? they don't even talk about what they're currently looking into or testing, if Dev's would even communicate with us and say "hey Ranger players we heard you and we're looking into core pets currently and planning on making some changes. How about some feedback guys!"

NOPE!

@AEFA.9035 said:definitely agree on this, I think ANet or balance team is having a hard time

I think they don't give a ... about players thoughts and ideas. Look at the mesmer, like a friend of mine said : it is a forgotten class. Since months now, they didn't do nothing to change this OP class. In my opinion mesmer is more OP than Spellbreaker or any other classes. They have huge, but huge dps, a lots of evades+invincibility, huge invisibility, huge range skills, they can hit you even they are not on the edge of the wall etc. A class who can do so higher damage and resist so long in the same time (more than Spellbreaker who is the tanky class in this game) is a broken class.That's why I don't think Anet care about ranger or any class ... they care only about (it is a maybe here) classes they play it?

@"AnariiUK.7409" said:I can understand the importance of looking at trait interactions across game-modes before making sweeping changes. However, Predator's Cunning is hardly a PvE DPS oriented trait, it is only taken due to everything else in that line being mostly useless within a raid, it offers barely noticable damage. If anything I'd balance Predator's Cunning around the amount of healing it can provide when you're pumping out tons of poison.

They need to look at interactions across and within modes. It's a lot of work.

I disagree that PC offers barely noticeably damage. It adds around ~450 dps. You might not think that's a lot but here are the current benchmarks. https://snowcrows.com/benchmarks/

Soulbeast and renegade have cemented roles as offensive supports for condi and power subgroups. They bring less damage than condi daredevil/firebrand on small hitboxes but make up for it with utility and buffs to group dps.

You lose 450 dps and ranger hits the tier of core condi engie. Which is still much better than scourge but gives people more reasons to demand you play Druid.

I think you'll see much more definitive PvE feedback simply because everything is so fixed and testable. It's more difficult to balance PvP since it is more complex and everyone has different opinions regarding what is good and what works.

If everything is so fixed the feedback would be less helpful.

There is nothing to disagree on. It's math.

There aren't infinite combinations. Just a lot.

Edit: including alternate skins there are 1485 possible ways to slot two pets.

@AEFA.9035 said:

@Dragonzhunter.8506 said:

@Daniel Handler.4816 said:

@"Obtena.7952" said:I think there is some misconception that the amount of feedback is related to the amount of work done for 'fixes/balance'. how are people making that conclusion? Some assumption that Anet doesn't want negative feedback on the forum, so they fix things faster? Not sure that's sound.

• Good feedback is related to the amount of work done because it is constructive. For example, a very clear and reproducible bug report make fixing a bug take less time.
• Weak feedback is not related to the amount of work done. It clearly identifies a problem but does not provide anything constructive towards its solution.
• Bad feedback is anything that does not easily identify a problem. Now anet has to decipher the request AND test it.

I think they are really behind and just keep getting more and more work. That's why balances to PvP happen like four times a year. If they are still working on poison fields months later what haven't they even looked at?

Druid and Holosmith are symptoms of the problem. They are powerful specs that have nothing to do with the complicated profession mechanics or boon uptime.

I can completely understand your frustration with the lack of communication, but I still can't help but feel sympathy. We are asking them to spend much more time on ranger than most other classes even though we know those other classes yell about fixes too.

Is soulbeast more deserving than scourge when it has a working raid build and isn't breaking PvP?

@Daniel Handler.4816 said:

@"Professor Sprout.1560" said:I'm confused. What are you objecting to exactly? Are you objecting specifically to focused discussions of the Rock Gazelle, or are you making a more general point? If the former then I'm puzzled because (going by thread subject lines on the front page of the ranger subforum) I'm not seeing any threads specifically about that point (can you point me to a recent sample of the "Hundreds of complaints"?). If it's a more general point then I'm equally puzzled because I'm not sure what it is you want.Are you trying to suggest you'd like to see trait change suggestions rather than pet change suggestions? If that's the case I think it's fair to say there have been plenty of suggestions and discussions of potential trait changes particularly during the beta. Also remember that a number of the ranger/soulbeast pet changes that have been requested and/or delivered so far have been bug fixes, e.g. the Pack Alpha changes to the new PoF pets; indeed the major changes made to the Rock Gazelle were apparently made to close an outlier case that arose due to unexpected behaviour.Or are you asking to see more "non-meta pet" builds discussed on this forum? If so you'll probably have to define which pets are meta - right now my PvE power build uses

Smokescale & Pig/Siamoth

and (within certain use cases) I would argue that it's good. Am I allowed to make suggestions?Or is it something else? I'd like to engage constructively here, but I'm struggling.

Where did you get the idea that soulbeast took more time than any other? Any other Ranger spec? Any other Class Spec in this expansion?They didn't know what to do. Did you see the media they released before the expansion came out---they were at a loss for words with barely anything to say about it.If ANYTHING, they spent less time on this than any other.

I don't know where you come off claiming people need to speak up. The devs of this game are not listening.

Time and time again the Ranger community has wrote detailed explanations of bugs on traits, skills, utilities and pets.

Nothing else needs to be said that hasn't already been said.

/Ignoring this thread

@EnderzShadow.2506 said:

@Daniel Handler.4816 said:

@"Professor Sprout.1560" said:I'm confused. What are you objecting to exactly? Are you objecting specifically to focused discussions of the Rock Gazelle, or are you making a more general point? If the former then I'm puzzled because (going by thread subject lines on the front page of the ranger subforum) I'm not seeing any threads specifically about that point (can you point me to a recent sample of the "Hundreds of complaints"?). If it's a more general point then I'm equally puzzled because I'm not sure what it is you want.Are you trying to suggest you'd like to see trait change suggestions rather than pet change suggestions? If that's the case I think it's fair to say there have been plenty of suggestions and discussions of potential trait changes particularly during the beta. Also remember that a number of the ranger/soulbeast pet changes that have been requested and/or delivered so far have been bug fixes, e.g. the Pack Alpha changes to the new PoF pets; indeed the major changes made to the Rock Gazelle were apparently made to close an outlier case that arose due to unexpected behaviour.Or are you asking to see more "non-meta pet" builds discussed on this forum? If so you'll probably have to define which pets are meta - right now my PvE power build uses

Smokescale & Pig/Siamoth

and (within certain use cases) I would argue that it's good. Am I allowed to make suggestions?Or is it something else? I'd like to engage constructively here, but I'm struggling.

I don't know if they spent more time, but definitely they need to spend more time for Soulbeast than any other classes, because of our pets and this new mechanics/merge/transformation. Other classes don't have so many different skills and chooses.And like I and you said, yes , Anet don't listening, why ? Because I think none of dev play Ranger, they play something else ... warrior, mesmer, thiefs etc ... and maybe they starting to play necro too, because they buffed pretty well the Scourge.