World Restructuring
Gaile Gray.6029
ArenaNet ArenaNet ›
A message from McKenna Berdrow:
I want to update everyone on the design we currently are investigating to help achieve population balance between worlds, and the goals we hope this new World Restructuring system can achieve.
The goals of the World Restructuring system are:
- Create great matches
- Handle population fluctuations
- Balance teams
- Diversify WvW experiences
It is important to keep in mind that we still are investigating and working on this system. It is possible that this system will continue to evolve as we develop it, and we will be constantly testing to make sure the system meets our goals and our expectations for a quality experience. This post is an opportunity to share with you our plans for the new system, and respond to questions before the system is far long in the development process.
Restructuring Worlds
Even though world linking has brought world populations closer together, it is impossible for us to get populations and coverage any closer because the current worlds do not give us the granularity needed to do that. For example in NA, Blackgate has decent coverage across all time zones whereas worlds like Crystal Desert have higher peak times and lower off-hour times. Because world linking isn't granular enough, we don't have the ideal link that allows Crystal Desert to have coverage that is similar to Blackgate.
This is why, in the new World Restructuring system, we will remove all players from their current worlds, and make new worlds every eight weeks. This will create more granular pieces, which allow us to avoid situations like the Crystal Desert example.
Since worlds will not exist any longer, the "World Selection" that currently is available in character select will be eliminated, and instead a selection for playing in either North America or Europe will replace it.
World Creation
The system creates new worlds and assigns them a pre-generated name at the start of each season. We use 'season' to describe the time between World Restructuring. We plan on eight-week seasons, which is similar to the current time between links. We will discuss more about seasons later.
World Creation builds teams so they have similar predicted participation, skill, coverage, and language. Team assignment moves players onto teams by calculating the contribution value of a player and using that calculation to distribute players fairly. We plan to track stats like play hours in WvW, commander time and squad size, time of day, and participation levels. The exact stats have yet to be determined and we are open to suggestions of other stats to use in this system. This new system will expand upon the current calculation that uses play hours for linking.
If a player has played WvW before, we will be able to use the statistics from their account to sort them into a new world. The system also makes a world assignment for players who have not played WvW before, when they first begin WvW. Ideally the system will assign a new player to a world on which their friends or guild mates play, thereby making it easier than it is at present for people to play with friends in WvW.
Playing with Guild Mates
We want to make sure that playing with WvW guild mates is easy in this new system. Guilds will be able to specify if they are a WvW guild. This essentially means the World Restructuring system will consider that factor at the start of each season when assigning the guild to a world. On an individual player level, once a player's guild has specified they are a WvW guild, the individual player will be able to set ONE of their guilds as their personal WvW guild. When World Restructuring happens at the start of a season, as long as you have specified your WvW guild, you will be assigned to the same world as everyone else in your WvW guild, guaranteeing you will be able to play with your guild mates.
Creating Alliances
We also want to make sure that existing WvW communities can play together in this new system. A WvW guild will be able to invite other WvW guilds to their WvW Alliance. WvW Alliances function as a party for guilds. When World Restructuring happens, the system assigns all members in the WvW guilds that make up the WvW alliance to the same world. These WvW alliances will have certain restrictions on them, such as a finite number of guilds or number of players. Our current plans for alliance size are somewhere between 500-1000 members, and we are still considering the technical and match-making ramifications of the number that we settle upon.
World Creation Summary
So to summarize world creation: at the start of every season our new World Restructuring system will use recent statistics, based on similar predicted participation, skill, and coverage, to create worlds filled with alliances, guilds, and unaffiliated players.
The above graph displays an example of what makes up a world under the World Restructuring system. Keep in mind, due to the algorithm used to keep worlds balanced, the number of alliances, guilds, and individual players can be wildly different between worlds, but the participation and playtime should be relatively the same.
Seasons
Seasons break WvW into cycles where several matches will play out. The current design for seasons is 8 weeks, but we are open to feedback. Matches are still a week long, so there would be eight matches a season in the above scenario. During the season, we will still be using 1-up, 1-down.
Stages:
- Season
- Once new worlds have been created and everyone has been sorted onto their WvW worlds, the new season has officially began.
- During a season players can manage their WvW guilds and alliances after reset and through the end of Week 7, but their WvW guild and WvW alliances will not be updated until the start of the next season.
- Ex: If you are playing WvW with Guild A this season and decide to set Guild B as your WvW guild in the middle of the season, you will not be able to play with Guild B until the next season, unless you transfer (more about that later).
- Season End
- A week before the season ends, that is, during Week 8 in the season, you no longer will be able to manage your WvW guilds or alliances. Your WvW guild and alliances will be locked down at this time.
- Everyone is kicked out of WvW, as they are with every reset. WvW will spin back up, as it currently does after reset, and everyone will now be sorted into their new worlds.
- World Creation
- Alliances, guilds, and individual players are sorted to be on a world.
- This will happen at the same time as current WvW reset.
Transfers
Region Transfers
Transferring between regions, from NA to EU, will still exist. We have not determined the costs for transferring but a region selection will be available on the character select screen that will allow transfers.
World Transfers
We understand that even though this system tries to keep guilds and alliances together, there will be times during the season when people want to change teams. Because of this, there are plans to allow transfers between worlds during a season. This means that new worlds will have size restrictions on them, as they do currently.
Players will be able to select worlds from the WvW panel in game. Worlds that are available for transfers will show up in the new WvW world panel. Worlds can be in these three different states:
The cost of transfer worlds has not been determined.
Transitioning to this System
This system is going to take time to make. As mentioned in the WvW FAQ, part of the reason we did World Linking was because it utilized a lot of existing tech and did not require a considerable amount of time. This allowed us to address the growing population issue quickly, while also being able to address other WvW issues. This new system is going to take considerably more time to make. We do not have a release date, but this is going to require several months of work and it will share resources with any other WvW changes that we work on.
Transitioning to this system is going to be slow and we want to make this transition as smooth as possible. Once this system is ready, we plan to give everyone several weeks to form their WvW guilds and alliances. We also want to give titles related to the worlds on which players currently are playing when World Restructuring goes live. If there are other transition ideas, we would love to hear them!
We will continue with World Linking until World Restructuring is ready to ship.
Feedback
That was a lot of information and I am sure there are many questions. The team will do its best to answer them. We appreciate any feedback on this system. Your opinions of this system, as well as the community's response, will be an important part of how we tackle this project.
If the reception is not great for this system, then the other alternative is most likely to continue World Linking. Even though making a choice between the two systems might seem like too drastic a change for some people, we have been exploring other designs to deal with WvW populations for years and we believe that World Restructuring or World Linking are the only solutions that meet our requirements. Simply "blowing up" worlds or removing people from the worlds on which they currently play is high risk (which is why we have avoided it for so long), and the only reason we are considering World Restructuring now is because it allows players to maintain and continue to build some of the communities they've created through the years.
Gaile Gray
Communications Manager: ArenaNet
Fansite & Guild Relations; In-Game Events; Community Showcase Live
Comments
Wow. That's something.
It was good knowing you, Fort Aspenwood.
Still, a complete overhall is the only way to rebalance the population, so I can't really complain.
Glad you guys have been hard at work designing this new system.
~ Kovu
Ranger, Necromancer, Fort Aspenwood.
The evolution of this post was amazing
OMG
It's happeningggggg
Well I still don't know what to say about it, but seeing you arena-guys didn't forget about WvW is great.
"Sticks and stones may break your bones but words will never be able to injure you!"
The Grim Adventures of Billy & Mandy
Bless.
/10charrs
Wow....... So will there be a max to the amount of players in a specific world /Guild for seasons?
Leader of Paradox of the Arcane Sovereigns SVGN]
To rule is to conquer
To conquer is to Dominate
To Dominate is the art of being a Sovereign
Well then. Honestly seems more guild centric. Hopefully individual players won't get bumped by large groups of guilds that form an alliance. I would hate to see one 'World' made up of just 'guilds'.
Thank You for the {MEME}
Can I have my 1600 gems back that I spent just two weeks ago?!?!?
jk
kind of....
There will be a max number of players in and Alliance but worlds will be balanced based on player score so the number of players is not fixed really but related to that score.
This sounds like a good solution and I'm surprised a big overhaul like this is what you're working on. Alliances is something that a lot of people have been requesting for quite a long time and this idea seems way better than the current world linking mess. Hooray!
Distribution (theoretically) of players based on skill, but not guilds. Guilds that form an alliance would go together. That seems... wrong..
Thank You for the {MEME}
So exactly how are players being valuated? If someone were to run a support tank build and doesn't output as many numbers as a damage dealer, is this person going to the dumps for being unvaluable?
Alas, the creation of Faction Wars 2 has begun
Why So Serious?
Amazing news. Thanks for your hard work.
Im really liking how this is shaping up so far atleast. Im cautiously optimistic and im looking forward to more details on the subject. I hope this goes live.
I'm in this sounds dope
Players are mostly being evaluated with play hours. We are also looking into commander time and squad size, time of day, and participation levels.
McKenna Berdrow
Game Designer
Will there be new Borderlands?
Leader of Paradox of the Arcane Sovereigns SVGN]
To rule is to conquer
To conquer is to Dominate
To Dominate is the art of being a Sovereign
Not at this time.
Will there still be tiers? Will there be actual rewards for winning a season? Will WvW finally be good again?
Will there be a limit as to how many guilds are allowed in each alliance?
Thank You for the {MEME}
Gotta read this a bit closer and give some proper feedback but for now THANK YOU. This is the type of change we've been waiting for, this is the type of change WvW needed, and I'm actually getting excited about playing WvW again. Well done with this, and I'm looking forward to see how this moves forward.
This is exactly the sort of structural change needed to vastly improve WvW. I support it wholeheartedly.
Two general points I'd like to add. There will be stuff in this new system that isn't going to work right out of the gate, so please design the particulars of the system with flexibility in mind so we can fix problems quickly and adjust things later. Basically don't make the new system as monolithic and hard to alter as the current WvW system. Not just in terms of balancing a granular population, but also scoring etc.
Second, since winning may actually mean something again. I suggest banning transfers to all winning worlds during the 8 week period. Basically this would help prevent a bandwagon effect. Transfer to 2nd or 3rd place world? Absolutely. Transfer to that world that is winning every week? No.
Caliburn.1845, Monsters Inc(BOO) guildleader.
DH>DB>BG>MAG>YB>SBI>YB>AR
I realize that many servers no longer feel they have an "identity". That is not, I feel, the case for Tarnished Coast and some other servers I know of. Some people have been on their server since day one, have friends across guilds and have a history. Although "something" needed to be done with WvW I am sad to think that all the people we play with here will be dispersed to the winds. Even stating they can be in an "alliance" with alliances changing from season to season, makes the continuity of community null. Baby, bathwater.....
F L Ö Guild Leader/Commander Valkyrja Söngur [ODIN], a Tarnished Coast Server Admin
F L Ö, Guild Leader/Commander Valkyrja Söngur [ODIN] a server admin Tarnished Coast
How awful it is to be without, as blood-red rack races overhead; is the welkin gory with warriors' blood as we Valkyries war-songs chanted
I'm convinced that this will be the final nail in the coffin for WvW, give it time for the larger guilds to poach all the players from any smaller guilds looking to remain a smaller tight-knit community in order to run their 4 map queues 24/7. Every other alliance that can't post the same numbers will just have to deal with it.
Players will as they have in the past manipulate their overall score to appear lower than their actual skill in order to allow for more players to flock to their alliance based on this:
Moving forward, are their plans to diminish the impact of match manipulation through punishment of offenders?
Yes. That number of guilds is still being determined but there will cap. It will also depend on the guilds size. For example an alliance might be able to have 5 small guilds before it is full, while another alliance might only be able to have 2 big guilds before it is full.
McKenna Berdrow
Game Designer
1, Can't wait for the new system!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hey, it doesn't hurt to ask.
2, If a player isn't in a 'wvw guild' and the guild they're in isn't going to set itself as wvw, do we need to join another guild for it? (I assume so)
3, Can all current player worlds be opened until the new system since none of what we're doing now is going to matter later? It would allow people to see who best fits with their upcoming alliance
Liking everything about this idea, I think it's the right way to got for more balanced matchups.
will this mean that pip chests will become seasonal too?
Incredibly happy for this
WvW has needed a shakeup since server linkings, this is amazing
Those afraid about your "communities", I urge you to keep open mind and embrace this change. I know of many, many players who will be interesting in coming back to the game for this
April Fools?
Instead of server stacking we'll get guild stacking. Perhaps skilled guild stacking. Instead of population imbalance, we'll have skill imbalance. I can't imagine a good guild wants to ally with a garbage guild... Waiting for a repeat of the 4 headed CD hydra, just in alliance form.
[VII] Spectre Legacy - Declared Best NA Guild by Grimaldi
Crystal Desert Consul Member and President of Scrubs; declared most toxic server NA by Z E Y
[VII] wants fights! Please bring your pug rangers for UD progress.
Wow anet... just wow... You just greenlighted this terrible Battlegroups concept. I am beyond disappointed and shocked. You just made WvW completely meaningless. I wonder how long it will take until everyone is running around in an EoTM style ktrain.
I no longer as a player can control what server I get to play and stay on, who I get to play with, when I get to play, how long I can play. I am now going to be "evaluated" to see if I am worthy enough? This is not even WvW anymore, this is randoms vs randoms.
How will people communicate when everyone is like this? Is every group supposed to be in a different comm? This will lead to a total break down in communication, coordination and teamwork of any kind.
I cant believe you are doing this anet, I am just shocked...
Somewhere chasing bags....
Alliances don't change unless you change them. Alliances are groups of guilds that want to play together. They will be limited in size but will remain together as long as the members of the alliance want.
Got it.
Would that be at the expense of individual players?
Thank You for the {MEME}
^^^^^^^^^^^^
WHAT?!? Did you expect something special would be written here
The image illustrates the system at a high level so well, thanks for including that.
Participation? This seems a bit odd since assaulting an objective is not considered to be participating in WvW. Only a successful capture is considered participating.
If you don't want to be randomly assigned to a world then Join a guild and don't be a BG random.
Considering that you can at a minimum take 500 players into your Alliance, you should be able to fit the bulk of any server community into your WvW Alliance and continue playing with them. You'll just need to have someone take the time to invite them to the same guild/alliance. And honestly if your community can't be bothered to hit the "accept" button, it probably isn't as tight a knit community as you think.
Caliburn.1845, Monsters Inc(BOO) guildleader.
DH>DB>BG>MAG>YB>SBI>YB>AR
I think this is a great idea. Of course a number of people from BG will complain, but in general it is a much better system than we have today. Population balance and time zone balance is a big issue. Looking forward to this being implemented as soon as possible.
If you want to be sorted into the season with a "guild" then you will need join another guild that has set itself as a wvw guild. Otherwise you will be sorted onto a world individually.
The current plan is to continue with what we have for now; continue with world linking and having locked worlds until World Restructuring is live.
McKenna Berdrow
Game Designer
Will there be some sort of individual player rankings as well as guilds ( like a leader board)? IF not , then how would you be able to determine if an alliance or particular world isn't going to end up with more knowledgeable players? Which isn't necessarily a bad thing but who ends up carrying the less knowledgeable players? How does the sorting work? Also, I didn't see anything about rewards for winners, will there be any?
Let's nerf everything, so that we don't need any skill to play.
The Truth sometimes hurts but it is good for you.
I am in a guild. When did joining a guild become a requirement for playing in wvw with other people? Why should any guild, or group of guilds determine who is going to be able to play on their server?
Somewhere chasing bags....
If they make the Alliance cap size around 1,000....that's probably already pretty close to the really active population numbers for a lot of servers. I think a lot of people are really overreacting. I suspect most of the Alliances are going to settle around the existing server communities anyway and if you can't be bothered to join one of the WvW guilds (a lot of which have no actual requirements) then I'm not sure why you're concerned about being randomly placed.
Nice!
Can i suggest some sort of bonus for WvW guilds/aliances?
I mean you're shifting the identity and community core to aliances and guilds, might as well give some sort of continuity to it since wordls will be reseting, might as well give something to carry over between resets.
Also, i'd say 8 weeks might be too short. I'd offer 12 weeks (3 months) at least.
Also, since no new borderlands why not put 3 desert + 3 alpine + EBG ?
Like:
N____Red Alpine____Blue Alpine____Green Alpine
____________Eternal Battlegrounds_________
S ____Red Desert____Blue Desert____Green Desert
Now that you can control better how many people per world, i think you can make this feasible, as it is having only Red with desert creates a bit of an imbalance, imo at least.
Good job in using guilds and introducing alliances to keep communities together.
Then why are you concerned? If you read through the post, joining a guild is not required for playing WvW with other people. If you want control over who you are playing with then you should join the same guild.
First off I'm glad y'all are getting ideas on the table. It feels like there's been too much silence but with the dev interaction in the thread I hope things can change.
I've read through everything and have talked with my fellow guildies and once issue I have seems to be the size of alliances. 1000 players seems just too much and seems like itll just create some degenerate gameplay that we see now with BG (not namecalling them, just saying what continues to happen with interactions isn't healthy). I believe having guilds specificy as wubwub specific is important but I believe it needs to be taken a smaller step further and possibly have more restrictions on player limits to help curb degenerate gameplay like trying to build a full coverage alliance but possibly with more rewards from guild missions buuuuuuuuuut I know the guild team may not be ready for such a thing yet.
Also when will we have some optimizations on wubwub servers? Reset night in EBG is still a nightmare when you have 200+ people fighting inside SMC with skills coming out 10+ seconds later.
As a community I think we're all mostly happy with basically all the recent changes that are wubwub specific (ignoring class balancing) and we hope we keep hearing more from you.
Thanks!
LF alliance
Sorry this is terrible. You are catering to guilds and ignoring your larger playerbase.
This is not a smart business model.
This looks amazing.
Did it occur to you that there are people who do not want to be randomly assigned, because it is a punishment for not being in a guild? And what about those that are not in guilds that they like to run with?
Somewhere chasing bags....