World Restructuring - Page 46 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

World Restructuring

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Comments

  • if you want good and fast data, why not run another WvW season like you bib back in 2013 or 2014?

  • this is becoming more of a band-aid patch to fix the declining wvw population.

  • DeWolfe.2174DeWolfe.2174 Member ✭✭✭

    Let's face it, they'd be better off resurrecting EotM. As the value of worlds was decimated, so were the weekly matches. The players that cared and played to win were lost for good. The only players left just want to log in, smash stuff, and log out, without any other concern. Alliances is just going to be a continued design failure because the people playing don't care about winning the week anymore. No matter if the teams are labeled Worlds, Guilds, Numbers, or Colors, a weekly match is the core issue. Short matches like EotM is likely to be the better design for today's players.

  • MartinTT.4123MartinTT.4123 Member
    edited November 3, 2018

    So WoW destroyed servers and everyone hates it.
    and ArenaNet told them self ..."let's do the same mistake!"???

    by destroying the servers you are destroying individuality of players.

    also competing for you server means much more than compete for some... blob of people, so much less players will play WvWvW. in other words, this is the worst idea that you could have.

    if this goes life, i quit gw2.

  • Diku.2546Diku.2546 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 31, 2018

    @MartinTT.4123 said:
    So WoW destroyed servers and everyone hates it.
    and ArenaNet told them self ..."let's do the same mistake!"???

    by destroying the servers you are destroying individuality of players.

    also competing for you server means much more than compete for some... blob of people, so much less players will play WvWvW. in other words, this is the worst idea that you could have.

    if this goes life, i quit gw2.


    At least you can say...

    "Told you so"

    I agree with you...we've thrown away the one thing that made this game mode endearing & unique.

    But then again...we can say....

    "Told you so"

    Those that argue that server identity doesn't exist....we warned you that Server Linking would continue to destroy server identity (heart & soul of WvW) that is supposedly "non-existant". Changing the game mode mechanics to satisfy veteran players demand for big blob fights was a wrong decision. We continue to dump our immature small fry players from guest servers into the host servers big tank where they're "toxicly" challenged to survive by the veteran sharks...so it nice to say...

    "Told you so"

    When Alliance Linking kicks in...just saying we can not depend on transient Guilds within an Alliance to provide a stable base for the WvW game mode to build a strong & self-sustaining Long Term community without the toxic culture that is made possible when players are involved with who stays & goes...so it's nice to say once again...

    "Told you so"

    There's a better alternative...imho.

    Yours truly,
    Diku

    p.s.
    See some of my past posts...please vote Helpful or Thumbs up if you agree.

  • dynomite.5834dynomite.5834 Member ✭✭✭

    @MartinTT.4123 said:
    So WoW destroyed servers and everyone hates it.
    and ArenaNet told them self ..."let's do the same mistake!"???

    by destroying the servers you are destroying individuality of players.

    also competing for you server means much more than compete for some... blob of people, so much less players will play WvWvW. in other words, this is the worst idea that you could have.

    if this goes life, i quit gw2.

    That may be true for you, but based on the comments and results of polls, most players don't care about a "server" or "server identity". For them, it's closer to home - the guild they fight with/for and the friends they fight with/for. The "server" they're on doesn't matter at all.

  • Dayra.7405Dayra.7405 Member ✭✭✭

    The big question is still: Will it come while there are players in WvW? Or just when all lights already shutdown.

  • Dear ArenaNet

    We fully support this idea to bring "server" pride into Alliance & Guild pride rather.

    Ignore the "few' naysayers and go-ahead.

    Its time the Guild* gets back into the wars. This game is not called "server" wars. Servers are boring to fight for. It is much more fun to build a guild and be part of it + choose your own alliance - not like servers where if you get a few Ds there, then you're stuck with them...

    Now, a system that resets every 8 weeks is awesome, and having an alliance that will be able to opt-in or out every 8 weeks is great and it will force "guilds" to be nice with each other and also make for good sport, rivals and that is fun!

    Players might start wearing their Guild Gear to rep their "alliance" and the Alliance can choose an emblem or Tabard or flags etc. It will also be harder for people to make alt accounts as they presently do on servers to "pull tactic leavers" with their alts, before they invade. It will be harder to "spy" on alliances, than servers. - You know it happens, idiots who tell enemy team where a squad is going to attack. Much harder to infiltrate - 1000s of alliances ;)

    Also, it will make guild pride more, it will forge a new dawn.

    Yes people are already proud of their guilds, however, "alliance" pride should be a thing. + leader boards and such. If there are top guilds/alliance, it should unlock a special Tier of Mistforge items that lights up or shows titles or emblems to pick from, as long as you are in the top.

    PS: Those who moan, just forge an alliance with your present server's guilds, call it your server name or w/e - problem solved. (If they don't want to ally, then start asking was it really then a "sever") - Roamers, join a roam Guild or make one, and join an alliance - stop complaining.

    With that said, go for it Anet! We stand by you!

    Adventure And Dragons [KING] Guild
    www.AdventureAndDragons.com

  • The Path Finder.3197The Path Finder.3197 Member ✭✭
    edited December 2, 2018

    @Redponey.8352 said:

    @Sovereign.1093 said:

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:

    @Sovereign.1093 said:
    looking forward to the change. it will finally be guild wars. guild.vs guilds vs guilds.

    It..... really won't....

    because?

    I think that world restructuring as it has been presented wont work on long term.
    I explain: Many veterans players left the game due of lack of competition (vs servers , vs an reward ladder) and objectives, the fight (metabuild) and the overhelming DPS which create fully onesided fight for nearly most of all.

    The major issue is the reason why vet players have left? because of this. They got tired to be bench WvW have been left to dust many years and still now change remain far too long, no deadline, no planning. if anet doesnt bring new features which can keep vet in, WvW will just transform into EOTM 2.0 just loot.

    how can it be fun to be one or two shot by someone who press 1 or 2 skill ? check this https://youtu.be/n4cs_RdPdZk DPS is far too much (condi and power) or Def stats arenot enough except healing stat)? when i check GvG round before Hot it last in general for more than 2-3min easily but now it's more less than 1 min... often it's only 1 impact. Moreover all Expansion spec is far more stronger than a core build.

    Less damage (condi (duration/stacks?) and power) and less healing efficiency would be really nice. Moreover adding an leader board ingame with servers, WvW guilds (kills/cap etc? surely weighted by guild member?) would be really nice. Some and big part of players (in WVW) really like competition especially in WvW and Spvp. i know game is having fun but we had fun in defending our server, on epic and tremendous fight , grinding a ladder... but now all of this fun vanish no more reason to play... when you have unlock skin and loot..

    Before=> https://youtu.be/u5UQP8f0-Ks

    Now => https://youtu.be/2MuvMM4TBTk

    Fight # ARENT FUN anymore. Fight need more teamplay and rythm. major healing should not remain on 1 support class but on synergy of class (water +blast?)

    I'm not a hardcore player but more like a casual but regular in WvW and i like tryhard.

    I really think WvW devs may directly talk with vet WvW players (casual, hardcore, regular) in game, it could bring some nice idea, features for WvW and FIX SOME MAJOR ISSUE as soon as possible.

    The problem is not of 1 & 2 button XD

    But I do agree, the 100 red circles, one spot bam dead, is a bit meh - if there's a way to balance it perhaps longer cooldowns... more siege or more counters, great - but in real war... if a guy nukes you, you can't go ./cry... he used a nuke on you not a small army...

    (but what you really want) might be a debuff - that stacks the bigger a squad gets... that way various types of squad formations and fight styles or combos can develop? The "mark/spam AOE" blobs... can get a debuff could weaken the AOE? More GS battles eh!? Like the warriors on the load screen - yush!

    If your squad leader and his sub commanders, sort the squad correctly, marks the FBs, etc. Your blob will survive. Having guilds/alliance will allow for better player management especially teaching new players and monitoring their progress and helping them get into the right builds or find their "path" be it roaming, havoc or zergs.

    Condi spams can be countered... there's tactics for each type of defence and attacks. - Coordination is much better in guilds+alliances than a "random" server website - where someone decided to call them self boss of server.

    Let smaller pools of players(guilds) organise themselves into alliances, which then can formulate their own strat, etc.

    Getting a bunch of joe randoms - who are just duelling the whole day at their "spots" instead of actually doing something, to join up to guilds is a pain and they waste server que. Alliances should be able to "ally" with a roam guild, if that guild is doing actual scouting and killing off reinforcements on their way to a squad. But these gentle-men duels should really go to a separate map, and there is one... there should be a LFG for it + a point system, so roamers can also earn some stuff or status.

    I love roamers, I love Havocs and I love blobs, have a toons for each. I feel that "you" as a player should be able to choose your "server aka alliance" culture, and people you WANT to be with.

    There should be a fair system, that lures veterans, casuals and new players. - There should be match ups Tiers, that you can select, "mixed" = hardcore guilds+some public players+some casual guilds which makes up a "server" for those 8 weeks. The hardcore guilds/alliances can cary it... it will reward more pips or something, than say,

    Pure hardcore only servers, or casual servers or new player friendly server "match ups" - However, being in a hardcore match-up - your alliance, will unlock you the path to earn a temp "title" + unlock skins, that only activate in this system.

    The mixed system, will give rewards like there is now, armour, mistforgred stuff, back item, etc. The hardcore match up (that your alliance signs up to) can then earn stuff, that display when they top of the leader board. They will also earn some permanent stuff if they won the final round.

    Your alliance should not be able to join a newby match up, if there's too many "vets" in your alliance, then it will need to join a "mixed" or "hardcore" match up.

    Just like you choose guild missions for the guild, same concept. This will just be the "alliance's" mission.

    This will also make advertisement better, as players will then want to either join, new, mixed or hardcore... or casual!

    Give the Hardcores their carrots on their sticks, they deserve it!

    Just my 2 cents - Rough idea, but its something.

  • Tiny Doom.4380Tiny Doom.4380 Member ✭✭✭

    @dynomite.5834 said:

    @MartinTT.4123 said:
    So WoW destroyed servers and everyone hates it.
    and ArenaNet told them self ..."let's do the same mistake!"???

    by destroying the servers you are destroying individuality of players.

    also competing for you server means much more than compete for some... blob of people, so much less players will play WvWvW. in other words, this is the worst idea that you could have.

    if this goes life, i quit gw2.

    That may be true for you, but based on the comments and results of polls, most players don't care about a "server" or "server identity". For them, it's closer to home - the guild they fight with/for and the friends they fight with/for. The "server" they're on doesn't matter at all.

    This is true, for the simple reason that most people who played for their server left WvW long ago. For several years the mode was all about server pride but successive design changes put an end to that. Now most of what's left is people who just want to fight for the sake of fighting which, as is frequently mentioned, represents a small fraction of the population the game mode once had. Whether ANet now decide to cater for the players they still have or try to attract new ones is a different question...

  • SkyShroud.2865SkyShroud.2865 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2, 2018

    It is never the design that push people off their server pride. It is human nature. The design changes only accelerate it.

    It is normal for people to just want to achieve certain goals in the fastest and easiest manner.
    Look at pve raid, people only want to play with exp players, so that they can complete their raid. Same thing for fractal or dungeon or whatever.
    WvW is not a exception. People only want exp players so they will not lose fights or end up with a one sided losing fights. That is why stacking exist, to stack only exp players. That is a never changing nature of normal players.

    While server pride do exist but it really only for the minority. The majority never once care about server pride, not at launch, not now. Many often abused the sympathy for server pride inorder to protect what they have, basically their current server's strength. It is almost always about winning and benefits.

    The game mode has been going about its self destructive path since launch. People keep bandwagoning, keep stacking. It just keep driving people away, people still do it anyway. When servers die, they complain about (while mixing in with voice of others) and demand anet to fix it. Lol.

    Founder & Leader of Equinox Solstice [TIME], a Singapore-Based International PvX Guild
    Henge of Denravi Server
    www.gw2time.com

    --

    Explanations of WvW Structures & Populations Issues

  • @SkyShroud.2865 said:
    It is never the design that push people off their server pride. It is human nature. The design changes only accelerate it.

    It is normal for people to just want to achieve certain goals in the fastest and easiest manner.
    Look at pve raid, people only want to play with exp players, so that they can complete their raid. Same thing for fractal or dungeon or whatever.
    WvW is not a exception. People only want exp players so they will not lose fights or end up with a one sided losing fights. That is why stacking exist, to stack only exp players. That is a never changing nature of normal players.

    While server pride do exist but it really only for the minority. The majority never once care about server pride, not at launch, not now. Many often abused the sympathy for server pride inorder to protect what they have, basically their current server's strength. It is almost always about winning and benefits.

    The game mode has been going about its self destructive path since launch. People keep bandwagoning, keep stacking. It just keep driving people away, people still do it anyway. When servers die, they complain about (while mixing in with voice of others) and demand anet to fix it. Lol.

    This is very true, and it's the very nature of many players (not all) is the reason server pride died long ago. Many players (and we see this now with a couple servers) only want lop-sided fights and have no interest in engaging even remotely evenly. Ironically, these servers have become so bad at fighting, they lose even when they literally double their enemy.

    It's these players that are causing the issue, and these players causing the acceleration of the declining population in WvW. These players will still exist in alliances, and will still continue to be a bane on the game mode. We can applaud Anet for at least trying to do something with the game mode to even things out even though there is no set date yet.

    I've suggested this a few times before, a simple implementation until alliances are ready, cap the maps at 20-25 players max. There is no need to have 70-80 per map when nearly all servers can't field those numbers. First start out by allowing only 20 players per map, then IF all maps have 20 players, increase the map cap to 25, and 25 remains the max a map can have. This would end blobbing and would be a direct blow to the stacking behavior of these players. This would also be a lot easier on their servers and provide relief for many whose computers crash during large battles. Even after alliances start, keep the map cap to 20-25 players only.

  • This whole idea seems very nice for the very big WvW only guilds but for a guild that is PvX and loves to go around to all types of content such as raids, fractals, open world events, or wvw, this change sounds like a living hell. I dont know if there have been changes made since there are almost 50 pages of comments but it sounds to me if this goes through that player will be forced to play with 1 guild or another for WvW and be unable to play with their main guild that isnt very focused on wvw but still enjoyes it from time to time.
    IE my guild has been SBI for 6 years now and we of course there are those of us who wvw more than others and are in a separate guild for more intense wvw sessions, but we currently have the ability to play together without trying to get into an alliance who doesn't want us simply because we don't wvw as much as a whole will make trying to play with each other a nightmare.
    Ive heard nothing but excitement from my friends who ONLY wvw and ONLY play with their wvw guilds but it does not seem like the right path for the majority of the playerbase who likes to just occasionally dip into wvw with some friends when those friends are in guilds that require players to wvw a certain amount or alliances that will be against a guild joining that only a handful of players are heavily into wvw.

  • Diku.2546Diku.2546 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 27, 2019

    @Tuna Bandit.3786 said:
    That changes are needed is obvious. but I feel this has not been thought through well enough.

    Snip - 8<

    This is giving Guilds way, WAY too much power to control who can or cannot join. That should be prevented.

    Snip - 8<

    By all means, go destroy WvW and give that much power to Guilds and forget about the casual player and small Guilds.


    I get what you're trying to say...

    Hope you can find comfort in knowing that this shared insight which over time has been proven true by saying to others...

    "Told you so"

    Alliance Linking will continue to repeat the same mistake of suppressing the Long-Term population growth that Server Linking mechanically & systematically does now...imho

    There's still a better alternative based on my perspective.

    Yours truly,
    Diku

    Credibility requires critical insight & time.

  • Redponey.8352Redponey.8352 Member ✭✭✭

    @Tuna Bandit.3786 said:
    That changes are needed is obvious. but I feel this has not been thought through well enough.

    Servers want to win, Guilds want to win. Currently, when someone new and inexperienced dives into WvW, they can. Nobody can deny them access because of their experience, fighting skills, level etc.

    Aliances will throw that upside down. New players likely won't get into the WvW Guilds unless they have skills to show, meaning they CAN be denied access to WvW maps they want to play in, and end up in, call it a "beginners" maps with players spit out by Guilds for not running the right equipment, skills, class etc.

    This is giving Guilds way, WAY too much power to control who can or cannot join. That should be prevented.

    I am member of a very small Guild, and enjoy playing WvW with them. I am not the best player and already have to deal with higher ping times in order to be able to play with my friends, due to the rediculous seperation of EU and US servers. Now you are going to make that even harder?

    By all means, go destroy WvW and give that much power to Guilds and forget about the casual player and small Guilds.

    I totally agree with you.

  • @Tuna Bandit.3786 said:
    That changes are needed is obvious. but I feel this has not been thought through well enough.

    Servers want to win, Guilds want to win. Currently, when someone new and inexperienced dives into WvW, they can. Nobody can deny them access because of their experience, fighting skills, level etc.

    Aliances will throw that upside down. New players likely won't get into the WvW Guilds unless they have skills to show, meaning they CAN be denied access to WvW maps they want to play in, and end up in, call it a "beginners" maps with players spit out by Guilds for not running the right equipment, skills, class etc.

    This is giving Guilds way, WAY too much power to control who can or cannot join. That should be prevented.

    As far aas i know you wont need a guild to join wvw at all - the new server willl be made of one or two alliances a few random guilds and single players. If I remember anets concept correctly your whole point is invalid. Only if you want to get into the more competitive wvvw scene you will need to get gear, skill etc, which I would assume is allready a present requirement.

  • Strider Pj.2193Strider Pj.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Tuna Bandit.3786 said:
    That changes are needed is obvious. but I feel this has not been thought through well enough.

    Servers want to win, Guilds want to win. Currently, when someone new and inexperienced dives into WvW, they can. Nobody can deny them access because of their experience, fighting skills, level etc.

    Aliances will throw that upside down. New players likely won't get into the WvW Guilds unless they have skills to show, meaning they CAN be denied access to WvW maps they want to play in, and end up in, call it a "beginners" maps with players spit out by Guilds for not running the right equipment, skills, class etc.

    This is giving Guilds way, WAY too much power to control who can or cannot join. That should be prevented.

    I am member of a very small Guild, and enjoy playing WvW with them. I am not the best player and already have to deal with higher ping times in order to be able to play with my friends, due to the rediculous seperation of EU and US servers. Now you are going to make that even harder?

    By all means, go destroy WvW and give that much power to Guilds and forget about the casual player and small Guilds.

    Your small guild won’t want to be together?

    Mine runs mostly 6-10 at our busiest in WvW, but we have maybe 30 active.

    Most of us will select our guild as a WvW guild, but not join an alliance.

    Soooo, we will always play together and kind of get a new shuffle every 8-12 weeks.

    If we find an alliance we like, and that likes us, we might join them if it can be worked out. But our guildies will determine that.

  • kimtingen.6472kimtingen.6472 Member
    edited June 1, 2019

    This world idea of yours going to mess things up. I say.. Just forget about the Worlds completely, remove the World vs. World completely from the game and instead call it "Guild Wars". A league where single guilds, or alliences of up to 4 guilds can fight for supremecy in their ranks. Make the season 10 weeks, 8 weeks of combat with 2 weeks of "Off season" time where guilds can make new alliences and get new players into the Guild War ranks of the guild (players that had joined them during the combat part of the season.) IMO the guilds shouldn't have the option to mark themselves as a "WvW guild", it should rather be all guilds having an option to create a "Guild War" army within itself where members that want to play the "Guild Wars can join, but only during the 2 week "Off Season" time.
    This would require a ranking system so that newer guilds wont be able to ally themselves with guilds that have been doing "Guild Wars" for a while, or meet guilds that are ranked higher in combat.
    I'm pretty sure this 8 weeks world idea of yours will just screw it up more than it is now with the open servers for the rest of the game and restricted servers for WvW that we have now.

  • enkidu.5937enkidu.5937 Member ✭✭✭

    @Tuna Bandit.3786 said:
    Aliances will throw that upside down. New players likely won't get into the WvW Guilds unless they have skills to show, meaning they CAN be denied access to WvW maps they want to play in, and end up in, call it a "beginners" maps with players spit out by Guilds for not running the right equipment, skills, class etc.

    This is giving Guilds way, WAY too much power to control who can or cannot join. That should be prevented.

    And I already know what map is going to be that "beginners and casual map".

    Alliance A: "Lets make a 50+ Zerg tomorrow at 6pm on Blue BL."
    Alliance B: "OK, then we will go to Green BL."
    Alliance C: "OK, then we will go to EBG."
    The Rest: "Uhmm, 3 queues. Hello Desert BL :# "

    And if you manage to get on one of the other maps, you are just not part of the "team".

    @Tuna Bandit.3786 said:
    By all means, go destroy WvW and give that much power to Guilds and forget about the casual player and small Guilds.

    They just have to make 2 seperate modi with 2 seperate matchmakings: "competitive WvW" and "casual WvW". Otherwise, the "I dont want to play with XY, because of reasons." problem will get even worse and make it even harder to get together enough ppl to play with, even if every world then is well-populated.

  • Hitman.5829Hitman.5829 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Can you increase the number of guilds that you can join?
    I have 3 guilds that I made just to store materials and items in them.
    This leaves me with 2 possible choices for the WvW guild.

    Charr Warrior Master Race!
    Black Gate Beast Roamer chicken chaser!

  • Strider Pj.2193Strider Pj.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Hitman.5829 said:
    Can you increase the number of guilds that you can join?
    I have 3 guilds that I made just to store materials and items in them.
    This leaves me with 2 possible choices for the WvW guild.

    Maybe stop hoarding?

  • Svarty.8019Svarty.8019 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Nice thread necro, kimtingen.6472.

    Necro. Never knowingly blasting combo fields since 2012.

  • Woop S.7851Woop S.7851 Member ✭✭

    @Gaile Gray.6029 said:
    A message from McKenna Berdrow:
    The goals of the World Restructuring system are:

    • Create great matches
    • Handle population fluctuations
    • Balance teams
    • Diversify WvW experiences

    Below is an "analysis" of GW1 Alliance Battles versus GW2 WvW, please note this post is only an analytical approach in order to address the above 4 items mentioned. GW1 Alliance Battles (even though small in scope compared to WvW) had elements that worked in the long-run, and possibly could inspire direction/creativity, it's always good to challenge our own opinions in order to remove blind-spots that can cost us dearly; is it really the Server links that is the issue? Is it the design? Mechanics? Player behavior? Why are Commanders always competing on the same side or in voice? Why is blobbing the main trend? in PvP mode (5v5), similar skills/traits are used, but at an smaller scale, could what's done there be carried over to balance a 10 v 20 fight?10v100 fight? (Scenario analysis needed from Big Data) Why is the WvW party search window always empty? In no way do I claim what is right or wrong, but only offer an perspective below. GW2 WvW has tons of potential! the scope of WvW is very big, it is my hope this post might inspire "Constructive Feedback" that could help the developers to improve this Game-mode in the long-run, with the reality of limited resources, to re-develop servers of this magnitude is no easy feat, something to keep in mind. Constructive comments welcomed! :)

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 5, 2019

    This "comparative analysis" falls flat on its face since WvW is a continous 24/7 mode. They arent comparable.

    By this logic, two 50 man zergs raiding against each other is exactly as balanced as entire GW1 alliances... for the duration of the raid. WvW is much larger than that.

    Also the "anomaly" in the very last part is players not posting squads in wvw lfg. Its not a bug or anything. Its players. Commanders dont "compete" for players either unless they want to. And then its up to other players.

  • getalifeturd.8139getalifeturd.8139 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 5, 2019

    @X T D.6458 said:
    Help me understand here...JQ tanks to avoid t1/BG, but you want to open up because?

    @MaLeVoLenT.8129 said:
    No one wants a link. Aandrie Youre wrong. We're tanking to avoid T1, tanking to open. Welcome to the meta imposed by 1 up 1 down.

    JQ wants to open up because just like many JQ has been bleeding. JQ has been locked for 6 months, moving to a 7 month period since before the expansion. During the expansion players come back to the game and they want to play with their friends. These players have been waiting for longer than a half year in the wake of an expansion. Meanwhile during the 7 month period JQ has lost substantial coverage and guilds alike, yet we still remain locked. JQs overall ideal Tier should perhaps be Tier 1 second or 3rd place. However because of the capacity situation posted about in various threads, the only thing Tier 1 itself provides is a slow degrade to implosion and the general population avoiding the most stacked server and organized server, that can still beat every server while being half dead and bored. The same effect has been happening for ages, even to the days of my alliance and way before that. The only difference now is 1 up 1 down greatly intensifies this disaster of a WvW system.

    The common response I get to this is, they why don't you xfer to a lower server population. But yet the same folk who would give me that would also cry when I do and call me a bandwagon when the same outcome happens.

    TL DR JQ is trying to save its life. Just like the rest of you.

    Oh I feel so sorry for poor Malevolent (OnS) who backstabs his own server and tries to destroy them repeatedly by stacking to servers to break the T1 wall. Before his lack of sportsmanship and wanting a challenge drove him to create the alliance of TW and several other cross server repping guilds. Yes go ahead and stack another server like you did to TC and YB.

    Tanking is no problem when there is no honor to be had because nobody has any server loyalty anymore. Thanks to you and your ideas for WvWvW Arenanet listened to you and we have the rotation you wanted so much for years. Whats the matter doesn't it suit you when the game is dead years later?

    This is from the old forums when he used to run Blackgate as server leader.

    "Greetings I’m Malevolent Omen, a server leader of Blackgate and the guild leader of [OnS]Onslaught. Blackgate is seeking Oceanic, South East Asian, and European guilds to fulfill our community’s coverage during Season 2. We seek guilds and individual players who want to join the server that maintained the lead in WvW Season 1.

    Since I came to Blackgate, I found that Blackgate has a great community with many people willing to work together to strengthen the server to better the community.

    Resilient is the word to describe Blackgate, which is one of the reasons my guild chose to come to here a year ago. No matter what trials and tribulations we go through as a server, in the end we always work together and get over them. These same tribulations have made us strong. Whether it is being the world’s first Tequatl kill or our will to win Season 1, Blackgate has always put its best foot forward.

    Coming to Blackgate isn’t an easy win and Season 2 will be a much more competitive environment. If you are expecting easy wins here, chances are you will be disappointed. The competition is fierce and our Rival Servers want our heads on a stake.

    If you are interested in Blackgate, we would love to hear from you. We are looking for like-minded guilds and players that want to come compete in North American Tier 1 WvW. If you are worried about Blackgate being Full, please note that our server status changes depending on time and we have been monitoring it so we know when players are able to transfer. If you are worried about the cost to transfer to a Tier 1 server, please know that on Blackgate we help support guilds and players that are interested in our community.

    Join us on BEASTGATE!"

    Website: http://www.blackgatewvw.com

    South East Asia & Oceanic Contact
    • Death Dollie (Tenebris.9258)

    Europe Contact
    • Skugg (glorius.1235)
    • Smokee Gee (Smokee.1754)

    North America Contact
    • Malevolent Omen (MaLeVoLenT.8129)

    Malevolent as leader of BlackGate stacked the server with the help of the community warchest.

    Another post from reddit about the history of WvWvW and the 2v1 because of lack of sportsmanship.

    "I want to start with a disclaimer that for story purposes, the servers are presented as simplified groups, in one case in particular, the characters presented as a server are a small subset of that server's population which gave that server a bad name. There are tons of great people on BG, and very often I've had some great, enjoyable fights with them.

    Once upon a time, I was on Sanctum of Rall. I did not begin playing at launch, closer to around the January of the first year. I joined the server and guild of a relative who'd been playing since launch. This particular guild had a longer history of being an RvR guild, going back to Dark Age of Camelot. We had our own vent channel, we had a commander to lead guild raids in WvW, our server's standing was improving rapidly. Life was good.

    Soon after I started playing WvW, it became apparent that our server, SoR, was on it's way up to T1, to compete with the big boys. One week, we were fighting Storm-Bluff Isle and Tarnished Coast (whom we considered enjoyable opponents) The next week, we were up against Sea of Sorrows and standing champion Jade Quarry. Looking back, I wish we'd never hit T1.

    We did alright that first week in T1, placing second. That partial success seemed to change much of the attitude on the server from "We enjoy WvW" to "We are good at WvW". The server, our guild included, got much more competitive. SoS soon fell out of T1, replaced by a new opponent, Black Gate.

    As competition increased, tempers began to fly. No longer were our opponents other great communities with whom we had enjoyable fights. No longer was JQ the admirable champion, whom we sought to dethrone, and no longer was BG the rookie, the newcomer to greet with the same good-natured battle with which we greeted other servers. No, now this was war; the other servers were just scumbags who sucked, and we found every possible reason to call their play dishonest. BG called themselves BeastGate. Not ones to pass up the opportunity, we called them every name under the sun (BadGate, BagGate, HackGate, etc). We also took to calling JQ "JQQ". I don't know whether or not they had names for us.

    Then, in the midst of all this, WvW Tournament Season 1 came about. At the start, it was assumed that JQ would win, given that they had the best seed. But while we at SoR decided to just fight like usual and kitten about it on the forums, BG took action, and by action, I mean they bought a kitten of big WvW guilds from other servers, including a massive Russian guild. They wiped the floor with us and had us eat off of it.

    I want to take a moment to reiterate, before I go further, that there are dickbags in every server, and that there are lots of nice people in BG. Those in BG that did bad things are not representative of BG as a whole.

    It was at this tourney that SoR died. One of the biggest things was that our server-wide teamspeak got DDOSed, a lot. It was also noticed that our teamspeak, without exception during this tourney, got DDOSed if-and-only-if we were facing BG that week. Tensions grew. "They're a bunch of hackers and cheaters." the TS got moved from its public ts that everyone knew of, to a secret one which was given only to wvw guild leaders. It also didn't help that BG had made several guild purchases for the tourney; we said they'd "raided Mommy's wallet", and added to their name list monikers such as "BuyGate" and "BribeGate". As the tournament came to a close, SoR fell in status, WvW guilds transferred out, having tasted T1 and not wishing to leave. As a result, SoR fell further, and the loop continued until SoR hit its current spot.

    My guild was one of the guilds that left. We came to TC, our old enemies friends, the next guild moving up in the ranks. We only did so after TW, the server's flagship guild, abandoned ship. This fractured the guild immeasurably; only about half transferred. I almost didn't; I almost stayed in SoR, but my relative in the guild offered me the gold needed to transfer. Because we were split between worlds, it was much harder to get those who played less into groups. The guild died. Some moved to other games. Those that stayed found other guilds, including myself.

    SoR as a whole suffered a similar split- those who left got split mostly into JQ and TC. Few, if any, went to BG. There was far too much bad blood. BG, of course, lauded themselves on victory, and in the weeks leading up to season 2, boasted to JQ and TC of how badly they would wreck us, like they did season 1. This was a mistake on their part, for three reasons.

    -Reason 1: TC and JQ now had many guilds from SoR, expatriots of their home server, due to events for which they blamed BG. Exiled from their home soil, they were out for blood.

    -Reason 2: Most of the rest of JQ had been in the server for Season 1. They'd expected an easy win, and were none too pleased with BG's antics either.

    -Reason 3: This is the biggest reason of all. BG, in all their "Beast Gate" chest beating, forgot that they were taunting TC. They pissed off a Role-Play server. Never kitten off a Role-Play server.

    Thus began the farce that is known as the Season 2 2v1, or as I like to call it, the reaming of BG. In a hastily contrived plot, JQ and TC agreed to focus fire on BG, trading wins week-by-week, so that by week 7, BG could not win. We'd then duke it out for 1st on the final week. BG didn't like this, and took to the forums to demand Anet's divine intervention. They didn't get it. We added "BlubGate" and "CryGate" to their name list.

    It's worth noting that by now, Anet had locked the WvW matchup forum category, forcing discussion to move to an unmoderated third party forum. It began unmoderated, at least. The 2v1 resulted in one of the biggest flame wars I've ever seen. Several players laughed, saying BG got what they deserved. Several BG said they never deserved anything like this. Several non-BG painted a picture of the 2v1 as a Jihad against the unrighteous. Several BG compared the other servers to an evil empire. There were several reaction pictures posted, of laughter, and of rage. Moderation finally got introduced when someone attached a massive picture of a kitten to his post, for the world to see.

    JQ won in the end. TC came second, and BG got third. After it became clear that TC couldn't win, we almost managed to sway public opinion towards letting SoS beat us in the matchup, to put BG in fourth, but alas, nothing came of it.TC solidified its identity as the new third T1 player, and BG got kitten. All was right in the world.

    And yet, not all was right. In the end, winning isn't much of a victory. I don't play WvW much anymore. It's not the same- no one from my old guild is on anymore. If I run, I run with strangers in mumble. TC is a welcoming and rich community, but I must confess it's not as good as it was. I miss SoR; I miss what it was. I miss having good fights with opponents we respected. I miss doing raids on a keep, with the whole giant group all in the guild. I miss the people ion the group being there to have fun, not to win. Sometimes, when I run in wvw, with a particularly friendly commander in mumble, just for a moment, I feel like I'm back there. But then the moment passes.

    TL;DR: Tier1 is full of drama, someone please come up and knock us down to T2."

    We created this hell for ourselves and now we have to live with the consequence of our actions. GG WP NO RE.

    Reposted here because Arenanet keeps removing my posts on the forums and giving me infractions.

    Why is it that the whole of the GW2 playerbase is punished for the actions of a few alliances of guilds who have stacked servers since the game's launch? You know what the worst part of all this is Arenanet? Now you're just going to give them all the tools they need to do it forever with these new "megaserver alliances."

    Let me give you some proof of this with some videos and reddit posts by these people.

    Does anyone remember the Titan Alliance who stacked servers at the beginning of the game?

    https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/vvzs5/introducing_the_titan_alliance/

    Sanctum of Rall was stacked by Indo (Tempest Wolves).

    Blackgate was stacked by Malevolent (OnSlaught).

    They have even made blatant statements about what their intentions were to do below:

    https://www.reddit.com/user/MaLeVoLenT_OnS/

    [–]MaLeVoLenT_OnS 2 points 2 years ago

    I heard about this Weeks before HoT even had a release date. Arena Net wasn't kidding they've been working on this for years. I even hinted at this multiple times and i told various commanders and leaders. The information was provided to me by Arena Net hired beta testers and streamers. The same folk who provided me with this intel are the same folk who warned me if a season was coming or a certain patch. The information is legit the only thing thats not is the fact that they've been working on this for a year + so what we have as a leak could be vastly outdated.

    When TW, OnS, WHOA, TS, EK, kitten, LUN formed "The Mad Court Alliance" we also knew about this. We also didn't like how the Tiers rotate and we wanted to break it. We wanted to play with who we wanted and fight who we wanted. We didn't want the stagnant pace of WvW and we believe that GW2 WvW community is a global community and friends and guilds are what builds communities not the server you are currently on. So yes "The Tier destroyer alliance" is real and the list of guilds within will probably keep the alliance going(hoping its just not 3 guilds).

    Malevolent was removed as server leader of BlackGate because he along with these guilds started cross-server representing. He wanted revenge on BlackGate even though he made it into what it is himself. The hypocrisy of some of the people in this world...He's finally won and destroyed Blackgate now.
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/26547/world-restructuring#latest

    Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. I have this whole post saved in a word document Arenanet. If you delete my posts I will just copy/paste them again. People deserve to know the truth of what goes on in WvWvW behind the scenes.

  • SexyMofo.8923SexyMofo.8923 Member ✭✭✭

    2 years later....

  • Woop S.7851Woop S.7851 Member ✭✭

    @Dawdler.8521 said:
    This "comparative analysis" falls flat on its face since WvW is a continous 24/7 mode. They arent comparable.

    So what would be an good comparison that won’t fall flat on its face with checks and balances or strict rules to the “24/7” Game mode? Would EOTM be comparable as it has 3 hour point resets? It used to be populated until rewards were removed..

    By this logic, two 50 man zergs raiding against each other is exactly as balanced as entire GW1 alliances... for the duration of the raid. WvW is much larger than that.

    Hmm, couldn’t find that part in the image where it says the 2 are exactly balanced or same, and no GW1 AB does not equal GW2 WvW, but the 4man teams from GW1 had a clear purpose and was enforced (core design mechanic) to avoid unbalanced blobs, what would be the reasoning behind WvW zergs with 1 spawn point, 1 tag screaming at people in voice and an empty LFG window? Any approach to enhance it?

    Also the "anomaly" in the very last part is players not posting squads in wvw lfg. Its not a bug or anything. Its players. Commanders dont "compete" for players either unless they want to. And then its up to other players.

    Hence “players” has to take initiative to post it, yet new players are thrown into battle right away, no set rule is present or alerts them on “how to lfg”, “no guides”. And yes commanders do compete (check voice during reset, it gets real nasty in there)... unless they want to.. be nice. The competition comes from “numbers”, bigger the blob, better chance to win? So the rules are set then, why overhaul servers and this huge thread? :D

  • Vegeta.2563Vegeta.2563 Member ✭✭✭

    I hope when Alliances actually come, server stability is improved. Tonight's reset skill lag was horrible. By the 20th time I hit my button for 1 skill it finally went off. Literally unplayable.

  • JTGuevara.9018JTGuevara.9018 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 8, 2019

    I'm cautiously optimistic about this. It can work or it can backfire depending on how it's implemented. The current wvw system is flawed and easily exploited by guild shenanigans: server stacking and timezones. Tier and server doesn't even matter, if it ever did. Timezones and population mattered. That's why I'm not for this mythical "server" pride, I'm not sure it even existed. I know guild pride was always there. I remember the early wvw days, the "Titan Alliance", the tournaments, those were fun times. It seemed like people cared back then. Still, I don't think they saw the flaws of the system yet. Eventually they did. Tiers, tournaments and servers never really mattered because regardless of all that, you were at the mercy of timezones and server stacking.

    Then came the server consolidation. Servers were stacked to the brim, guilds got fatter. We went from 24 servers down to 12. Blackgate ran roughshod over the gamemode because, honestly, I think people then realized the system was flawed and pointless and stopped caring. People stopped this farce of a competition because it just didn't matter...you were at the mercy of your timezone and your tier.

    I will say, I like the idea of this alliance system. People finally have a choice of who they want to play with. People are not at the mercy of servers and tiers. However, it's crucial that the new system must, MUST take into account timezones. Someone else said this, the timezone could be a loophole. Timezone stacking 'could' be an exploit guilds and alliances use to dodge matches. Say, if there's a certain alliance they don't want to face at a certain time of the day... Still, at the end of the day, in a realm vs realm system, you never really know or can fully predict with certainty how many people will play at any given time of the day.

  • Sovereign.1093Sovereign.1093 Member ✭✭✭✭

    anet can experiment a monthly experience to see if people like it, and then change change alter to make the experience better for players, since it's players who help them earn their keep and money irl. why not set up a yearly sched to do the adjustment like a catholic building their church. it may take more than 100 years but it's getting there piece by piece. to ensure the change is what the players want, make players vote for at most 3 choices to alter the state of wvw, then do that - check the reaction and feedback for a month, then again, make a 3 choice survey, then do that. always focussing on the 3 most important concerns to date but are more related to the changes.

    tournaments, to me is the top need. followed by new maps. followed by wvw queue system ala pvp. you can test it in one map in wvw - i.e. red bl. or eotm or in 1 normal bl.

    Not Even Coverage is the Only broken thing in WVW.

  • Looks like it may help off hours player a bit.
    Just wish wvw paid close to the same as pve, I hate pve. Buying and making stacks of seage and food and hero banners is a huge drain.

  • slasc.3260slasc.3260 Member ✭✭

    @Raymond Lukes.6305 said:

    @Kovu.7560 said:
    Wow. That's something.
    It was good knowing you, Fort Aspenwood.

    Still, a complete overhall is the only way to rebalance the population, so I can't really complain.
    Glad you guys have been hard at work designing this new system.

    ~ Kovu

    The evolution of this post was amazing <3

    It was like watching realization creep in writing.

  • shiri.4257shiri.4257 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 10, 2019

    @FromFallen.4801 said:
    This whole idea seems very nice for the very big WvW only guilds but for a guild that is PvX and loves to go around to all types of content such as raids, fractals, open world events, or wvw, this change sounds like a living hell. I dont know if there have been changes made since there are almost 50 pages of comments but it sounds to me if this goes through that player will be forced to play with 1 guild or another for WvW and be unable to play with their main guild that isnt very focused on wvw but still enjoyes it from time to time.
    IE my guild has been SBI for 6 years now and we of course there are those of us who wvw more than others and are in a separate guild for more intense wvw sessions, but we currently have the ability to play together without trying to get into an alliance who doesn't want us simply because we don't wvw as much as a whole will make trying to play with each other a nightmare.
    Ive heard nothing but excitement from my friends who ONLY wvw and ONLY play with their wvw guilds but it does not seem like the right path for the majority of the playerbase who likes to just occasionally dip into wvw with some friends when those friends are in guilds that require players to wvw a certain amount or alliances that will be against a guild joining that only a handful of players are heavily into wvw.

    What makes you think your pvx guild is the main guild? depending on the parameters, pvx guilds are probably larger than wvw. not all wvw guilds will be looking to group up with other wvw guilds. there will be options to build an alliance as each sees fit. at the every least, it will add some administrative capabilities.

    Spectre [VII] - Wood League Champion. Making "fight guilds" stack on higher tiers since 2013.
    Wood League News Network [WLNN]- www.twitch.tv/shirirx

  • Trakarg.2095Trakarg.2095 Member ✭✭

    So is this ever kitten happening?

  • Diku.2546Diku.2546 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 14, 2019

    Hmm...

    It's kind of ironic that we're still waiting for an answer...

    When the original person who posted this article is gone...and the "game director" that provided the vision behind this World Restructuring is also gone.

    Over the years on the old & this new forum...

    I've predicted many things that have come to pass...long story short...I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for an answer.

    Just enjoy what this game already has to offer...or learn to move on with life...imho

    It's ok to do both...if this helps you.

    Yours truly,
    Diku

    Credibility requires critical insight & time.

  • Kylden Ar.3724Kylden Ar.3724 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Trakarg.2095 said:
    So is this ever kitten happening?

    Not until they figure out how to charge gems for it as often as they get from Bandwagoners.

    How many times we gotta tell you GRIND IS NOT CONTENT there ANet?

    Leader of Tyrian Adventure Corp [TACO], [RaW][TACO] Alliance, Kaineng.

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I hope they bring back wvw tournaments after world restructuring settles.

  • @Woop S.7851 said:

    @Gaile Gray.6029 said:
    A message from McKenna Berdrow:
    The goals of the World Restructuring system are:

    • Create great matches
    • Handle population fluctuations
    • Balance teams
    • Diversify WvW experiences

    Below is an "analysis" of GW1 Alliance Battles versus GW2 WvW, please note this post is only an analytical approach in order to address the above 4 items mentioned. GW1 Alliance Battles (even though small in scope compared to WvW) had elements that worked in the long-run, and possibly could inspire direction/creativity, it's always good to challenge our own opinions in order to remove blind-spots that can cost us dearly; is it really the Server links that is the issue? Is it the design? Mechanics? Player behavior? Why are Commanders always competing on the same side or in voice? Why is blobbing the main trend? in PvP mode (5v5), similar skills/traits are used, but at an smaller scale, could what's done there be carried over to balance a 10 v 20 fight?10v100 fight? (Scenario analysis needed from Big Data) Why is the WvW party search window always empty? In no way do I claim what is right or wrong, but only offer an perspective below. GW2 WvW has tons of potential! the scope of WvW is very big, it is my hope this post might inspire "Constructive Feedback" that could help the developers to improve this Game-mode in the long-run, with the reality of limited resources, to re-develop servers of this magnitude is no easy feat, something to keep in mind. Constructive comments welcomed! :)

    I loved gw1 alliance battles. It was so much fun. Was very disappointed in wvw but couldnt go back to ab it was dead.

    Fort Aspenwood is weak

  • Everybody was so excited when gaile made this thread lol and now here everybody saying its not happening and telling anet to ..... and nobody has any hope anymore. @arenanet you sure know how to destroy your own game.

    Fort Aspenwood is weak

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