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World Restructuring

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  • kamikharzeeh.8016kamikharzeeh.8016 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 9, 2020

    time for daily

    alliances when o_O

    @Yolaus Kriff.3465
    i wish... the issue is, if there (and yes, that is super likely i guess) are new elite specs, chances are big that the meta in Wvw with make those "a thing", which kinda makes us get the new expansion anyway. plus likely 1-2 character slots, which at least i'd always take etc... they know their goody baits.

    but well, also like 80% of my playtime sofar has been Wvw probably over the last 2,5 years.

  • vier.1327vier.1327 Member ✭✭✭

    Happy page number 53!!

  • @vier.1327 said:
    Happy page number 53!!

    Woot! We’re on a roll

  • Strider Pj.2193Strider Pj.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Calisanna.8732 said:

    @vier.1327 said:
    Happy page number 53!!

    Woot! We’re on a roll

    It’s taken almost three years to get here. I’d be willing to be it’s another 3 before we hit alliances (and we are more Likely to Get to page 100 before that actually happens..)

    Thank You for the {MEME}

  • Inoki.6048Inoki.6048 Member ✭✭✭

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:

    @Calisanna.8732 said:

    @vier.1327 said:
    Happy page number 53!!

    Woot! We’re on a roll

    It’s taken almost three years to get here. I’d be willing to be it’s another 3 before we hit alliances (and we are more Likely to Get to page 100 before that actually happens..)

    You still believe? No, my friend. If they had a small measure of decency in them and showed a tiny bit of interest we’d see something by now.

    Every transfer delays alliances.

  • Diku.2546Diku.2546 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 10, 2020

    @Zok.4956 said:

    @Diku.2546 said:
    ANet....please wake up & realize WvW still has the potential to become the next eSport to be able to host an Annual Tournament equivalent to the NFL Superbowl...imho

    Please don't throw away your opportunity to create an Annual Tournament equivalent to the NFL Superbowl before another company takes this niche.

    Please wake up. WvW does not have the potential to become this kind of eSports and never had.

    WvW will always have population imbalances (and to have equal numbers of players on both teams is very important - removing even one player from the field/game is often used as a big penalty in team sports).

    WvW is actually WvWvW. It is a three-way fight which is unfair in its core. This is sometimes part of the fun of WvW. But eSports has to be fair (needs at least to have fair rules).

    WvW classes are not balanced and probably never will be. Class balancing seems to be beyond Anets skills. This unbalanced classes will not attract a lot of eSports players. When Anet tried to build an eSports scene with sPVP in the past, the scene was destroyed mostly because of how Anet handled and changed the class balances.

    We both seem to have different perspectives...can we agree to disagree?

    I agree that the three-way fight is unfair at its core & eSports requires Healthy Competition.

    ANet needs to change this broken three-way fight model into one that is Player Driven, but Anet Controlled to encourage Healthy Competition.

    You're also right about class balancing, but it won't matter because we need to fix the broken three-way fight model first...imho

    I still believe WvW can be an eSport...IF....let me repeat....HUGE IF

    WvW must be able to sponsor Match-Ups that encourages Healthy Competition in Tournaments...while fully embracing that population imbalances naturally occur in the context of this game mode...and I believe it is possible.

    IF....we [ Replace ] the broken three-way fight model...with one that encourage Healthy Competition.

    Full context on How To [ Replace ]

    2019.11.28 - CHAPTER 6
    WvG TOURNAMENTS - Using New Match-Up Mechanics based on a Globe Raiding Model
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1064956/#Comment_1064956

    I wish we could have a Televised Coverage of an Annual "SuperBowl" Tournament.

    Credibility requires critical insight & time.

    Yours truly,
    Diku

    Credibility requires critical insight & time.
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/89449/wvg-world-vs-globes/p1

  • @kamikharzeeh.8016 said:
    time for daily

    alliances when o_O

    @Yolaus Kriff.3465
    i wish... the issue is, if there (and yes, that is super likely i guess) are new elite specs, chances are big that the meta in Wvw with make those "a thing", which kinda makes us get the new expansion anyway. plus likely 1-2 character slots, which at least i'd always take etc... they know their goody baits.

    but well, also like 80% of my playtime sofar has been Wvw probably over the last 2,5 years.

    I totally agree, WvW would be unplayable without the expansion due to the expected new meta elite specs. Thats the point. WvW will be basically over if they totally ignore this thread and expect us to throw them more money. We paid for HoT, got a desert map/gliding, then PoF and got mounts. If the new expansion has nothing for me and just the same old same old, GW2 will get nothing from me, including putting time into training and commanding people.

  • Strider Pj.2193Strider Pj.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Inoki.6048 said:

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:

    @Calisanna.8732 said:

    @vier.1327 said:
    Happy page number 53!!

    Woot! We’re on a roll

    It’s taken almost three years to get here. I’d be willing to be it’s another 3 before we hit alliances (and we are more Likely to Get to page 100 before that actually happens..)

    You still believe? No, my friend. If they had a small measure of decency in them and showed a tiny bit of interest we’d see something by now.

    I believe that we will hit page 100 before we see alliances.

    That doesn’t mean I think we will actually see alliances.

    Thank You for the {MEME}

  • Super Hayes.6890Super Hayes.6890 Member ✭✭✭✭

    At this point an apology would be nice since they aren't updating us like they said they would. It really is time to come clean about what happened to create this void. We are still expecting alliances since that is what was promised. We are still expecting communication because that is what was promised. It is time for this company to own this situation. Silence is a response and we are starting to get the message. If that continues to be the path then thanks for sparking our interest then doing nothing!

    The next time you get angry at someone try walking a mile in their shoes. After that, who cares! You're a mile away and you have their shoes! -Someone with more awesome quotes than me

  • vier.1327vier.1327 Member ✭✭✭

    Maybe a message of Arenanet would be enough to kill the WvW Alliances meme.

    Hi guys, we had some problems; a / b / c. We are still working on it, just be patient.

    That, for me would be enough and my respect for the company would rise to the top.

  • Super Hayes.6890Super Hayes.6890 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @vier.1327 said:
    Maybe a message of Arenanet would be enough to kill the WvW Alliances meme.

    Hi guys, we had some problems; a / b / c. We are still working on it, just be patient.

    That, for me would be enough and my respect for the company would rise to the top.

    Me too. I mean, just a basic effort would be nice.

    The next time you get angry at someone try walking a mile in their shoes. After that, who cares! You're a mile away and you have their shoes! -Someone with more awesome quotes than me

  • throws down more ascended door for the later joiners (see other thread)

    Really though, I wouldn’t mind ascended utilities to use as well.

    Was anything mentioned in their WvW stream this week? I should watch one day just to count how many times ppl ask about alliances 😂

  • i am laughing in advance. all we gonna get is alliance and nothing more. so everyone will start complaining and arenanet will not want to touch WvW ever again. X)

  • Super Hayes.6890Super Hayes.6890 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Calisanna.8732 said:
    throws down more ascended door for the later joiners (see other thread)

    Really though, I wouldn’t mind ascended utilities to use as well.

    Was anything mentioned in their WvW stream this week? I should watch one day just to count how many times ppl ask about alliances 😂

    Could you throw up a catmander tag so we know where the buffs are?

    The next time you get angry at someone try walking a mile in their shoes. After that, who cares! You're a mile away and you have their shoes! -Someone with more awesome quotes than me

  • Thornwolf.9721Thornwolf.9721 Member ✭✭✭✭

    ah yes, the thing that sits firmly plastered to the table... glorious.

  • vier.1327vier.1327 Member ✭✭✭

    Why nobody think in WvW Alliances?!

  • vier.1327vier.1327 Member ✭✭✭

    Remember our target; page 💯

  • roses are red
    violets are blue
    alliances when

  • Strider Pj.2193Strider Pj.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @kamikharzeeh.8016 said:
    roses are red
    violets are blue
    alliances when

    2032?

    Thank You for the {MEME}

  • Strider Pj.2193Strider Pj.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I do wonder as this thread is likely the one with the most active views and most posts..

    Thank You for the {MEME}

  • yeah, guess only people who don't view the thread are Anet devs thaha. kinda curios if they just have no clue what to say about Wvw, and if that is the reason for the total silence about anything really towards Wvw.

    like the system would like/want/need updating, the overall structure and the comfiness/playability of non-class related stuff literally screams for some updating. therefore, the "we work on class balance" is kinda making the playerbase going monkaS

  • Thornwolf.9721Thornwolf.9721 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Back to the top, we need to keep this going.

  • Now lift us up where we belong sing

  • vier.1327vier.1327 Member ✭✭✭

    @Calisanna.8732 said:
    "Rise!".png

    "Rise!"
    40 Recharge time
    Profession
    Necromancer tango icon 20px.png Necromancer (skill list)
    Specialization
    Reaper tango icon 20px.png Reaper
    Slot
    Utility
    Type
    Shout
    Training cost
    15 Hero points
    Game link
    [&BjR4AAA=]

    Arenanet nerf Rise, it is too op on this forum.

    And give us WvW Alliances.

  • vier.1327vier.1327 Member ✭✭✭

    Now, with each rise post on this forum, let's post a youtube link with a music hit.

    I start with The top by Ken Blast.

  • Ubi.4136Ubi.4136 Member ✭✭✭✭

    In today's devs play wvw stream, they mentioned "when world restructuring is done" as an offhand remark to something else they were talking about. I guess they still think it will happen...someday.

    Lost in the Maguuma (TC)
    For the geographically challenged, yes, Tarnished Coast is located IN the Maguuma Jungle.

  • Super Hayes.6890Super Hayes.6890 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ubi.4136 said:
    In today's devs play wvw stream, they mentioned "when world restructuring is done" as an offhand remark to something else they were talking about. I guess they still think it will happen...someday.

    Or maybe it was in the same context as the old saying, "When pigs fly."

    The next time you get angry at someone try walking a mile in their shoes. After that, who cares! You're a mile away and you have their shoes! -Someone with more awesome quotes than me

  • Thornwolf.9721Thornwolf.9721 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Super Hayes.6890 said:

    @Ubi.4136 said:
    In today's devs play wvw stream, they mentioned "when world restructuring is done" as an offhand remark to something else they were talking about. I guess they still think it will happen...someday.

    Or maybe it was in the same context as the old saying, "When pigs fly."

    I mean I feel like they like referencing the table is why they keep off-handing it.

  • Balkarrie Legacy.9175Balkarrie Legacy.9175 Member ✭✭
    edited September 26, 2020

    Whatever you do theyll destroy WvW doing it , once they decide based on ' analysis ' of ' your playing time etc ' whether your guild is a ' declared wvw guild ' theyll force you all into a single guild if you want to continue playing alongside the WvW friends youve spent 8 long years with, defending and representing the server you call home .... and then THEYLL decide what ' world ' youll play for on a random rotating basis. Course the bandwagoners and repeated server jumpers wont give a kitten .... but those of us who`ve spent 8 years dedicated to one ( currently ) ... will get shagged in the behind

  • vier.1327vier.1327 Member ✭✭✭

    Maybe the number of players was not as low as they think...

    Why change the system if this was true?

  • Super Hayes.6890Super Hayes.6890 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Balkarrie Legacy.9175 said:
    Whatever you do theyll destroy WvW doing it , once they decide based on ' analysis ' of ' your playing time etc ' whether your guild is a ' declared wvw guild ' theyll force you all into a single guild if you want to continue playing alongside the WvW friends youve spent 8 long years with, defending and representing the server you call home .... and then THEYLL decide what ' world ' youll play for on a random rotating basis. Course the bandwagoners and repeated server jumpers wont give a kitten .... but those of us who`ve spent 8 years dedicated to one ( currently ) ... will get shagged in the behind

    I mean, I've been with all my friends on Sorrow's Furnace since the begining and not one of us will be upset with this change. Server pride would mean something to us if we weren't constantly being linked to different servers each go.

    The next time you get angry at someone try walking a mile in their shoes. After that, who cares! You're a mile away and you have their shoes! -Someone with more awesome quotes than me

  • I mean, I've been with all my friends on Sorrow's Furnace since the begining and not one of us will be upset with this change. Server pride would mean something to us if we weren't constantly being linked to different servers each go.

    So YOU won`t care , MANY of us will

  • @Balkarrie Legacy.9175 said:
    I mean, I've been with all my friends on Sorrow's Furnace since the begining and not one of us will be upset with this change. Server pride would mean something to us if we weren't constantly being linked to different servers each go.

    So YOU won`t care , MANY of us will

    Many casuals who only follow the tags who don't care, do care B) .

  • vier.1327vier.1327 Member ✭✭✭

    I have to admit that I would miss Baruch Bay... It could sounds imposible, but I also have server pride

  • kamikharzeeh.8016kamikharzeeh.8016 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 26, 2020

    @Super Hayes.6890 said:

    @Balkarrie Legacy.9175 said:
    Whatever you do theyll destroy WvW doing it , once they decide based on ' analysis ' of ' your playing time etc ' whether your guild is a ' declared wvw guild ' theyll force you all into a single guild if you want to continue playing alongside the WvW friends youve spent 8 long years with, defending and representing the server you call home .... and then THEYLL decide what ' world ' youll play for on a random rotating basis. Course the bandwagoners and repeated server jumpers wont give a kitten .... but those of us who`ve spent 8 years dedicated to one ( currently ) ... will get shagged in the behind

    I mean, I've been with all my friends on Sorrow's Furnace since the begining and not one of us will be upset with this change. Server pride would mean something to us if we weren't constantly being linked to different servers each go.

    i mean, they destroy servers with their trashy current system yet. as said, desolation is filled with newbies and might not survive this 2nd unlink within a year... it's barely playable, the new and inexperienced casuals are not doing much more than providing the enemies bags.

    @vier.1327 @Balkarrie Legacy.9175
    we have barely guilds left... not a single battle guild, and before it was only one since several months. i was getting desolation as automatic server when making my account, and stayed sofar. but it becomes unacceptable. last two weeks i made 3400~ and 2500~ kills, our overall kd/r is just far far worse.

    i might have to transfer too, for what should there be "server pride" if nobody of the original server is left bc anets outdated and neutrally said unhealthy system still stays?

    i'd prefer to unlink and flatten every servers population, systemwise. just then we'd kinda stuck with all the new players as well, idk. hopeless i guess.

  • i'd prefer to unlink and flatten every servers population, systemwise. just then we'd kinda stuck with all the new players as well, idk. hopeless i guess.

    Anet have done more to kill Deso than the opposition who constantly double team us .... linking ruined WvW , their ' superservers ' helped kill it too , was nothing better than being in Lions Arch when someone jumped in to say Border needed help, and 60 people would instantly jump into WvW , server pride !
    Their constant insistence we were full when we werent , the matchups it created , even now Millers have got 90+ players on at 1AM BST in a T5? match up . Supposedly were just as full as they are ... so yeah i agree with you, unlink everyone, do a proper study of actually how many players really spend any time in wvw on each server then drop them into tiers to rise and fall by themselves .
    Banning players from other continents joining certain servers would be a start too ...

  • vier.1327vier.1327 Member ✭✭✭

    I agree with all of you. Server links were a temporary solution that it has been with us for too long.

    I do not know how it is working in USA, but in Europe has killed lot of servers; or at least the feeling that x guild was part of y server.

    Fortunately Baruch Bay has avoided this mess for now.

  • Diku.2546Diku.2546 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 27, 2020

    @vier.1327 said:
    I agree with all of you. Server links were a temporary solution that it has been with us for too long.

    I do not know how it is working in USA, but in Europe has killed lot of servers; or at least the feeling that x guild was part of y server.

    Fortunately Baruch Bay has avoided this mess for now.

    NA is leading EU in this regard...imho

    Full Context - [ NA leads EU on Server Linking ]

    2020.08.15
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1311428/#Comment_1311428

    Credibility requires critical insight & time.

    Yours truly,
    Diku

    Credibility requires critical insight & time.
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/89449/wvg-world-vs-globes/p1

  • kamikharzeeh.8016kamikharzeeh.8016 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 29, 2020

    btw alliances when :9

    also..
    did anybody hear of this?
    (video title: "Fortunes Vale Tour!!! - The Lost Gamemode")

    some guy posted it today on discord, and it's kinda madness what pre-ready content apparently has been made years ago - in 2013! yet, 7 years later they only removed tournaments, add useless stuff like warclaw and didn't even give any clarity about the 2+ years ago promised content of "alliances".

    the "fortunes vale" content might be worked in and used for other living world maps etc yet.. i'm not pve map expert to be able to compare / identify this there.

    also, to quote a youtube source comment of 2015 | https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/33i9hn/fortunes_vale_the_map_that_went_missing/cqm0p6w/ original post from reddit;

    by Devon Carver:
    "So a couple of notes that I can share. 1) This was not, repeat not, a pre-version of Edge of the Mists. I can see where the overlap would be, but that's not what this >map is about. 2) You would not be wrong to blame Tirzah for the moogle, although in her defense, I don't think she expected the art to get out with the moogle still >on it. 3) Because it was Tirzah working on the art, you are correct to say it is awesome. 4) While there is nothing that says we will bring this map back, there's nothing >that says we won't. If we really wanted to do something silly, we'd put it literally on a table somewhere. :P 5) This is a particularly grand scale example of the >development process and iteration. This is not the only thing we've worked on that was scrapped and inevitably the reasons that we cut things can be idiosyncratic, >though they usually fall down to if they are fun enough.
    I'm sure that just piques your appetite without bedding it back down again, so to say, but that's a bit of the history behind the mystery."

    however, anet just dropping other content there speaks rather for alliances 100% to never happen. probably alliances wouldn't even fix enough for the hype people have/put into it.


    outside of that: @ devon carvers' reddit account, u can find a comment where they spoiler that u can fight some boss dragon mob @ red border. just, they somehow forgot that u need a 10 people group that a bored enough to walk into the very corner of hugest map they made, to fight the dragon. for a reward that was maybe good at HoT launch, but never afterwards i bet (i never killed it yet)

    you may ask yourself now like me, who had this idea?

    "let's make content, but place it so it does not interact with anyone"

    this boss mobs should maybe wander the maps and attack other npcs, including guards/dollers, so ppl would have a reason to fight them. and no idea why it'd be that hard to bring Desert Borders' objectives just 10-20% closer together and to reduce the maps' size by as well, like what for do we really need the huge amount of unused space?

    like, they did yet make map caps smaller than those have been initially. "peformance reasons", no offcicial statement afaik about HOW many ppl exactly fit into maps. plus, sometimes it doesn't feel like all teams have the same size "fitting in" - just we cannot check that assumption, since we don't know the real numbers here. smart af, dear devs.


    i think diku means that NA has lost far more active servers. bunch of the people fill EU spots by now even i think, would be odd to explain where the night blobs of more than a full map size come from otherwise.

    @subversiontwo.7501 i struggle a bit with editing atm, notsure why it doesn't format like i want it to ^^"

  • subversiontwo.7501subversiontwo.7501 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 29, 2020

    Kami, could you edit and reformat that post a bit? It's interesting but it's pretty hard to see who is saying what since the citation got botched.

    The mode both looks pretty cool and pretty limited with questionable replay value. Assuming it is an escort attack/defend competition mode as WP outlines it. If it was 2013 I would presume that it got scrapped because other titles were comming out with more open-ended (and thus superior-looking) escort-style features. It's also probably good that it did get scrapped given the reception of later similar PvEWvW systems like the one that launched in WoW and wasn't very well received. Furthermore, it gives yet another unsurprising look into the direction and process of alot of things Anet have done since, it's almost as if they are taking some kind of board-game approach to building a system with game theory from scratch and then blow it up in wheel-reinventing proportions only to later fold everything about it with little salvage, instead of taking an iterative approach rooted in what they have that works and could be repurposed, reshaped or expanded into something else.

    I'm not sure if this puts it more aptly, but the approach is almost as if they are making a new game rather than making a new mode to fit into their existing game. That would show that they for quite a long time has had that sort of direction and that it is not only recently that ArenaNet seems more interested in creating multiple smaller games and experiences rather than a holistic MMO.

    If anything, the video is more reminiscent of Drizzlewood than anything else, you can also see the ideas of such biomes in both EotM and DBL, besides Drizzle itself. I've never been a fan of the idea myself. Not that I hate all forms of gradually changing textures but rather that such splits in a 4 or a 6 has always felt a bit shoehorned rather than being actual gradual transitions over different textures. It has somehow always felt more like a Mario world than an MMO world if you catch my drift, with things like Fire keep on DBL feeling out of place thematically in both textures and terrain, etc.

  • subversiontwo.7501subversiontwo.7501 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 29, 2020

    @vier.1327 said:
    Fortunately Baruch Bay has avoided this mess for now.

    That is nice for BB to some degree, but sadly BB is also a corner piece of alot of the issues that exist with the system and all it would take to force the issue would be for some nomadic community to exploit the special treatment of the server and doomstack it. Imagine BB's nightcap domination with a bunch of international GvG guilds on their dayshift.

    It would make sense for any guilds who are in recruitment- or community rebuilding phases to just go BB and stay artificially open for recruitment. It would also just take a few popular guilds or even players at this point deciding to 'show' the impact on the server/community side instead of complaining about it.

    I'm actually a bit surprised that no one has done that yet :3

  • kamikharzeeh.8016kamikharzeeh.8016 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 29, 2020

    "ding dang"
    "who there"

    alliances when

    outside of that, i agree that the project sounds not flawless, but keep in mind that the guy on the vid just guessed how it would work or precisely look. i agree that i think they worked in much of the area into other maps

  • Inoki.6048Inoki.6048 Member ✭✭✭

    @kamikharzeeh.8016 said:
    "ding dang"
    "who there"

    alliances when

    outside of that, i agree that the project sounds not flawless, but keep in mind that the guy on the vid just guessed how it would work or precisely look. i agree that i think they worked in much of the area into other maps

    As long as there are transfers

    Never

    Every transfer delays alliances.

  • players cannot fix the system. we could just all stop playing, but that would finally just kill the gamemode completely.

  • heard it is

    alliances when

    'o'clock!

  • primatos.5413primatos.5413 Member ✭✭✭

    Come on guys.. we can make it a thousand pages thread before alliances go live \o/

  • Appreciate keeping the hope alive! :)

    A few questions in terms of Alliance for constructive discussion if you'd like to pass the time: visuals welcomed:

    1. Based on GW1 Alliances & battles gamemode, what elements do you think would be something that might be integratable while improving WvW? Any examples or scenarios, mechanics, or gameplay that made it 'fun'? Did you like it? Hate it?

    Random Video of GW1 Alliance Battles fyi:

    1. Before rewards were scaled back from EOTM: Edge of the Mists (divide and conquer play), what did you enjoy in terms of gameplay + mechanics compared to say Eternal Battlegrounds? Was it fun? Loved it? hated it?

    2. There was a legacy thread related to commander/UI adjustment proposals that focuses on utilization of minimal time/resources in order to improve the WvW, any comments or suggestions?

    Many thanks! =)

    NA Server: Henge of Denravi
    WvW Builds: https://tiny.cc/wvw2

  • vier.1327vier.1327 Member ✭✭✭

    I was going to rise the WvW Alliances post, but then I discovered that Max Covery, Marko Polo and Niko are the same person.

    This guy has beaten the Eurobeat game for real.

  • it's finally just not my job to fix this... i don't think we have much if any influence on the development. and if i read quite some posts on here, it's also better alike. it is like 25% pretty good ideas and 75% wanting kittens and skyscales. and have probably not even yet unlocked the warclaw, or think every charakter needs to have access to every skill and utility option etc :dizzy:
    about gw1, i never played it, so cannot say much. might check the vid later
    about @vier.1327 idk any of these names ol

    many of the core points have been discussed in certain topics... i think this one here is mainly having the job to remind the devs that they're still having one promise to keep.