HoT classes vs PoF classes — Guild Wars 2 Forums

HoT classes vs PoF classes

It seems like all of the balance is explicitly making HoT builds progressively worse than PoF. Looking at the balance patches so far and the leaked patches, it seems like the only things getting buffed are the PoF specializations.

From what I can see:

Scrapper = useless
Tempest = nothing vs weaver
Herald = useless except for HK xD
Daredevil = I think thief is dead overall
Reaper = literally a bigger meme than tidepods

Chrono = getting gutted
Druid = getting gutted
Berserker = good
Dragon Hunter = good

Then we have PoF

Holosmith = super flexible dps, absolutely rocking it atm.
Weaver = 46k dps large hitbox.
Renegade = high dps... check... stronk support... check
Scourge = king of wing 5
Mirage = what's dat broken deeps? Oh its a mirage
Soulbeast = yeah this one is just good, versatile and dependable.
Fire brand = talking one of the highest dps specs and one of the strongest future support specs?

Spell Breaker = it's actually almost there strangely, but not quite.
Deadeye = well, I think the uselessness of this spec justifies the op'ness of everything else PoF has.

I don't know, but as far as I can tell it seems that all of the Hot specs are slowly getting trashed while the PoF specs are getting tonnes of love. Do you support this design direction? It seems that a lot of the pressure for this is coming from the vocal parts of the community, what does everyone else think?

Comments

  • Malediktus.9250Malediktus.9250 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Elite specs are Anets way to introduce pay to win. Every expansion will make it worse

    First person to reach 35,000 and 36,000 AP.
    killproof.me/proof/kEyr

  • Dahkeus.8243Dahkeus.8243 Member ✭✭✭

    What changes are you talking about with Druid getting “gutted”? So far, it’s stayed a staple of raid groups and even has might sharing now.

    Also, the changes to chrono Don’t mean much yet. It’s so far and away a staple of raid groups that even with heavy changes, it will likely remain a staple of raid groups.

    So without your speculation about what Chrono and Druid changes there will be, there’s5 solid HoT specs vs 7 PoF ones. Consider that Druid and Chrono are about as close to mandatory as it gets right now, that’s not a really big difference.

  • CptAurellian.9537CptAurellian.9537 Member ✭✭✭✭

    They're nerfing chrono for good reason and where exactly are they gutting druid? As far as the rest is concerned, I think that some HoT specs suffer from general design issues (scrapper, herald) or specific factors (tempest being replaced by a spec that's still focused on power damage was stupid) that make them unattractive for instanced PvE. Daredevil is mainly a numbers thing (don't forget they made staff #2 playable not so long ago) and reaper ... well, I guess that's the ancient necro factor. The devs certainly could and should do better balancing for the old elite specs, but it isn't as horrible as you make it sound.

    Praise delta!

  • Turin.6921Turin.6921 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 4, 2018

    @Zlater.6789 said:
    It seems like all of the balance is explicitly making HoT builds progressively worse than PoF. Looking at the balance patches so far and the leaked patches, it seems like the only things getting buffed are the PoF specializations.

    I don't know, but as far as I can tell it seems that all of the Hot specs are slowly getting trashed while the PoF specs are getting tonnes of love. Do you support this design direction? It seems that a lot of the pressure for this is coming from the vocal parts of the community, what does everyone else think?

    You are judging things only taking high challenge instance PvE into account. Which is only one game mode of many and not the only one selling expansions. In open world that is probably the majority of players, and any instance PvE expect T4 and raids none of these matter really and everything is viable. Thus the assessment that this is an actual strategy is false. They do not balance the game only looking at raids.

    But even in looking at raids:
    The chrono nerf is quite reasonable and it will not change its state as the best tank. They are just trying to open support to other classes as well. Chrono is the only mirror class left in raiding groups. I do not see how the druid is gutted. Chrono and druid will still be taking at least 1 spot in most groups.

    You are also ignoring the tempest as a potential healer that works well as a black kiter or in SH groups since druids are more focused on pushing. Daredevil can still do fine DPS.

    So you have Chrono, Druid, Zerk required in any groups, DH a great burst DPS choice and Daredevil and condi reaper as viable ok choices.
    Also healer tempest and herald useful situational.
    The scrapper was also never supposed to be a PvE Spec (even though they gutted him on PvP but thats a different discussion).

    And in the PoF side you have Weaver, Holo, Renegade, firebrand, scourge. SB and mirage (which is good but only exceptional in places like Cairn or Matt) as DPS classes that are great but as DPS classes can be interchangeable with any other viable one from HoT.

    Thats what 5 (or 6) vs 7, on which the 3 of the ones from HoT being basically mandatory. So the situation is not as serious as you make it.

  • @Zlater.6789 said:
    Reaper = literally a bigger meme than tidepods

    "clang clang shriiiiek clang!" -Belinda Delaqua
    When I join your LFG

  • narcx.3570narcx.3570 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 6, 2018

    @Zlater.6789 said:
    From what I can see:

    Scrapper = useless
    Tempest = nothing vs weaver
    Herald = useless except for HK xD
    Daredevil = I think thief is dead overall
    Reaper = literally a bigger meme than tidepods

    Condi DD is still a top pick in a couple of raid encounters and both it and Power DD are respectable in several others.

    And tempest is still used quite a bit as a third healer in the PUG scene for fights like Matt, Desmina, and River.

    Chrono = getting gutted

    Distortion sharing aside... The upcoming changes are mostly doom, gloom, and overreaction from the community. Honestly, with a few trait adjustments, Chrono's probably going to be better than ever at quickness and alacrity uptime after the patch.

  • Nayaru.4716Nayaru.4716 Member ✭✭
    edited February 6, 2018

    I'm not going to speak for all the classes just for DH's "Good" rating there. In the game modes I play it's still one of the most desirable classes. I play everything but PvP/WvW and I haven't been doing much raiding, everywhere else a power DH is freaking awesome, another one or two DH's and who even needs anything else to do the content outside of the above.

  • Chrono is a viable support and dps spec currently.
    Druid can share might and offensive buffs while healing or providing 16-17k dps.
    DD is decent
    Berserker remains outstanding and required in every group for unique buffs and competant dps.
    DH remains very good, strong burst, decent sustained dps vs small hitbox
    Scrapper, Tempest, Reaper, and Herald are lacklusters atm, though power herald received interesting buffs.

    [eA] Sakura | Kaineng

  • Despond.2174Despond.2174 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 7, 2018

    Umm what?

    Druid = Gods
    DH = Gods
    Zerker = Good
    Staff DD = Fantastic
    Chrono = Still good
    Reaper = Average, still fine in fractals.
    Herald = SubparDPS, but has a solid healing option.
    Scrapper: Agreed
    Tempest = Good, fresh air still great for it's very basic rotation.

    It's not even remotely as bleak as you're post suggests. Yeah overall POF is better, it's the new expansion, but everything else is not obsolete. I still play many of the HoT builds because they are better in many game modes.

  • blambidy.3216blambidy.3216 Member ✭✭✭

    I laughed when you said thief is useless. Daredevil staff Kicks butt in fractals. The dps is underrated. As much as what people think. If I am ever down it takes the team three times longer to get down a mob then a thief. Thieves kill much faster then most people think.

    Daredevil is beast. D/p in pvp is still better then deadeye in pvp. If you ever encounter it just hide for a second and then when you see him steal and murder the deadeye. They suck up close.

    Druid gutted? Ummmmmm druid is still the best healer in the game no matter what people say. U need a Druid in raids. Especially if there are hiccups. When everyone drops Druid can instant revive without restarting the raid. Healing is still better then other classes.

    Last time I remember ele could do 40k without using weaver soooooo? I remember you could do 40k with just using regular specs.

    Ranger has always been best and condi as far as I rember even without soul beast. Soul beast just amped it a little.

    I agree I do wish arenanet would work on balancing the old elites too though however as far as better? No. Since they are new people think they are better.

  • so, since it’s a necropost... let’s give an update of changes since OP posted.

    HEART OF THORNS

    Scrapper = useless

    Has a healer option on SC

    Tempest = nothing vs weaver

    Scepter tempest has come back

    Herald = useless except for HK xD

    Now is a viable off healer and buffer! (Though still kinda meh)

    Daredevil = I think thief is dead overall

    Going strong

    Reaper = literally a bigger meme than tidepods

    Doing just fine! Power reaper is seen in a lot now!

    Chrono = getting gutted

    Never was gutted, now is easier than ever! Just as strong

    Druid = getting gutted

    Still never saw this being gutted, super strong

    Berserker = good

    Still true, and base war is too!

    Dragon Hunter = good

    Kinda “meh” now.. not seen much.

    PATH OF FIRE

    Holosmith = super flexible dps, absolutely rocking it atm.

    Still same

    Weaver = 46k dps large hitbox.

    Damage dropped off, now it uses a sword!!

    Renegade = high dps... check... stronk support... check

    Still “check”, alacrity share is better

    Scourge = king of wing 5

    Had a heavy heavy hit, but bounced back with solid support

    Mirage = what's dat broken deeps? Oh its a mirage

    Still a good dps class

    Soulbeast = yeah this one is just good, versatile and dependable.

    Kinda “meh” now, but not terrible.

    Fire brand = talking one of the highest dps specs and one of the strongest future support specs?

    Firebrand dropped HARD imo, support still kinda there. People still trying for FB+Ren.

    Spell Breaker = it's actually almost there strangely, but not quite.

    Still somewhat true.. viable but there’s better options

    Deadeye = well, I think the uselessness of this spec justifies the op'ness of everything else PoF has.

    Is now meta.

    Think that wraps up necro-post nicely!

  • Clyan.1593Clyan.1593 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 24, 2018

    Isn't Druid Ranger with Harrier stats meta for raids?
    OP, are you talking about PVP, WVW or PVE?

    EDIT: Necro post, nvm

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @CptAurellian.9537 said:
    They're nerfing chrono for good reason and where exactly are they gutting druid? As far as the rest is concerned, I think that some HoT specs suffer from general design issues (scrapper, herald) or specific factors (tempest being replaced by a spec that's still focused on power damage was stupid) that make them unattractive for instanced PvE. Daredevil is mainly a numbers thing (don't forget they made staff #2 playable not so long ago) and reaper ... well, I guess that's the ancient necro factor. The devs certainly could and should do better balancing for the old elite specs, but it isn't as horrible as you make it sound.

    Well i mean, weaver is more of a dps spec than tempest. Tempest screams support spec.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sorin Noroku.5342 said:

    Dragon Hunter = good

    Kinda “meh” now.. not seen much.

    Actually it's quite good, has an amazing burst, seen quite often both in fractals and raids.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Sorin Noroku.5342 said:

    Dragon Hunter = good

    Kinda “meh” now.. not seen much.

    Actually it's quite good, has an amazing burst, seen quite often both in fractals and raids.

    I raid a LOT and rarely see them anymore compared to other classes. And it’s still “meh” when ya compare to others

  • @Sorin Noroku.5342 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Sorin Noroku.5342 said:

    Dragon Hunter = good

    Kinda “meh” now.. not seen much.

    Actually it's quite good, has an amazing burst, seen quite often both in fractals and raids.

    I raid a LOT and rarely see them anymore compared to other classes. And it’s still “meh” when ya compare to others

    Well, recently there was a record kill on kc that was using dragonhunters, soulbeasts and weavers as dps so they cannot be bad right?

  • ProtoGunner.4953ProtoGunner.4953 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Tempest is absolutely awesome. Auramancer is fun and super easy to play and you are extremely tanky without losing a lot of DPS and helping your party with lots of unique auras.

    I hate this negativity all the time. You present the old elite especs as if they aren't used at all and totally useless. In reality they are played a lot and most people enjoy them.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 6, 2018

    @Sorin Noroku.5342 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Sorin Noroku.5342 said:

    Dragon Hunter = good

    Kinda “meh” now.. not seen much.

    Actually it's quite good, has an amazing burst, seen quite often both in fractals and raids.

    I raid a LOT and rarely see them anymore compared to other classes. And it’s still “meh” when ya compare to others

    Since W1 and W4 are the most commonly run Wings, and Dragonhunter isn't very good at W4 (Base Guardian can be better) I can understand why DH popularity might be down. Plus a lot of the raid community members don't know how to think for themselves. If someone for whatever reasons says "DH is weak", it will spread very quickly and they will be treated as being weak. The raid community (especially pugs) is really gullible.

  • @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Sorin Noroku.5342 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Sorin Noroku.5342 said:

    Dragon Hunter = good

    Kinda “meh” now.. not seen much.

    Actually it's quite good, has an amazing burst, seen quite often both in fractals and raids.

    I raid a LOT and rarely see them anymore compared to other classes. And it’s still “meh” when ya compare to others

    Since W1 and W4 are the most commonly run Wings, and Dragonhunter isn't very good at W4 (Base Guardian can be better) I can understand why DH popularity might be down. Plus a lot of the raid community members don't know how to think for themselves. If someone for whatever reasons says "DH is weak", it will spread very quickly and they will be treated as being weak. The raid community (especially pugs) is really gullible.

    Also another reason why dragonhunter is not that popular is this:
    If someone starts raiding then they most likely start as dps. Power classes are much easier to gear then condi classes. (berserker extocis vs viper exotic/ascended......, ascended berserker trinkets vs viper trinkets.). Up until recently there were only 3 good power dps options: Weaver, holo and dragonhunter. Out of those, weaver is too hard for begginers, holo is in the middle but if i remember correctly eng is not that popular class. Dragonhunter is the easiest out of them and so it was considered begginer raid dps. But recently more power options were added to top tier, namely soulbeast, daredevil and deadeye. They bring great dps but are not that complicated as weaver so I guess most raiders now gear deadeye instead of DH.

  • Tempest fresh air is the "safer" elem build, it doesn't have the 50k/s burst of weaver but for fractals pugs constant >25k, 40% protection, mid range (Last Laugh, Social Awkwardness, etc) stab, some support traits and skills...
    Actually I prefere tempest rather than weaver that die stupidly from poison fields, the balls at arks, or fail all his aoe at Ensolyss etc.

  • @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @Sorin Noroku.5342 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Sorin Noroku.5342 said:

    Dragon Hunter = good

    Kinda “meh” now.. not seen much.

    Actually it's quite good, has an amazing burst, seen quite often both in fractals and raids.

    I raid a LOT and rarely see them anymore compared to other classes. And it’s still “meh” when ya compare to others

    Well, recently there was a record kill on kc that was using dragonhunters, soulbeasts and weavers as dps so they cannot be bad right?

    Oh trust me, I 100% love guardian, and played it myself last night. It’s not bad, just... there...

  • @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:
    Well, recently there was a record kill on kc that was using dragonhunters, soulbeasts and weavers as dps so they cannot be bad right?

    Its not bad and i actually like playing Power Soulbeast. Its fun but not really there imo. Soulbeast got 25k towards the end of that fight, which is still 2k lower than the DH. The reason Soulbeast was taken is the insane scaling those classes (Ele and DH) get with One Wolf Pack in combination with leader of the pack + the extra damage from the 1 orb at KC.

  • @RaidsAreEasyAF.8652 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:
    Well, recently there was a record kill on kc that was using dragonhunters, soulbeasts and weavers as dps so they cannot be bad right?

    Its not bad and i actually like playing Power Soulbeast. Its fun but not really there imo. Soulbeast got 25k towards the end of that fight, which is still 2k lower than the DH. The reason Soulbeast was taken is the insane scaling those classes (Ele and DH) get with One Wolf Pack in combination with leader of the pack + the extra damage from the 1 orb at KC.

    I know that. I just wanted to point out that they could have taken weavers instead of DHs and still took DHs so there must be a reason for that choice. (I think it was answered in coments of that video but I forgot that).

  • @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:
    I know that. I just wanted to point out that they could have taken weavers instead of DHs and still took DHs so there must be a reason for that choice. (I think it was >answered in coments of that video but I forgot that).

    Well yeah, the insane scaling with One Wolf Pack, Higher DPS than Holo or Thief on this boss and good cleave for the statues. This allowed the Weavers to go Sword instead of Staff, gaining more DPS.

  • @RaidsAreEasyAF.8652 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:
    I know that. I just wanted to point out that they could have taken weavers instead of DHs and still took DHs so there must be a reason for that choice. (I think it was >answered in coments of that video but I forgot that).

    Well yeah, the insane scaling with One Wolf Pack, Higher DPS than Holo or Thief on this boss and good cleave for the statues. This allowed the Weavers to go Sword instead of Staff, gaining more DPS.

    And that means that DH cannot be usless in raids if it is used in recent record kill

  • @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:
    And that means that DH cannot be usless in raids if it is used in recent record kill

    Never said that.
    Literally no class is useless right now. Probably the best time to get a DPS class since every single class is in a good or very good spot.
    Though in a pug run or even static that doesnt do 1 Orb mid tanking you will get worse DPS since DH and Slb fall behind after the inital burst.

  • Zlater.6789Zlater.6789 Member ✭✭✭

    Man the necro, I made this like a year ago, things have changed a lot bois.

  • I started playing this game cca 4 months ago, I play only mirage (I have few more chars on lvl 80) and i have to say if new expansions comes up and classes will get new elite spec, I am worried that I will be forced to change from my beloved mirage to something else.. I love my axe :( :anguished:

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