Weaver Specialization Updates for the Path of Fire Launch - Page 3 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Weaver Specialization Updates for the Path of Fire Launch

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  • Ashamir.9574Ashamir.9574 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 22, 2017

    So basically 90% of the beta feedback for Weaver as been ignored.

    Still 4 seconds global CD on attunement swap, because why give a kitten? Still the same slow auto attack.

    Why can other professions get changed after feedback but Ele stays the same?

    Sometimes I wonder why I even bother writing feeback at all.

  • So, why does weaver still hit like a wet noodle, no matter what we run, either condi power or hybrid our dmg is less than core.

  • @MrAidenVoid.7416 said:
    So, why does weaver still hit like a wet noodle, no matter what we run, either condi power or hybrid our dmg is less than core.

    Because having short range should also mean you do less damage and have no ways to actually stick to a target or properly maintain adequate anti-power defense.

    I mean, doesn't it make sense that dagger has more gap-closers AND damage than sword, plus more range, and more damage? Sword has all that defense in those two evade skills (vs. one on a shorter CD on dagger).

    Weaver is so clunky to play...Ele is all about using attunements for on-demand access to skills, while weaver is all about...never having the skill you need and instead having even more lack-luster skills ontop of it!

  • @BlackBeard.2873 said:

    @MrAidenVoid.7416 said:
    So, why does weaver still hit like a wet noodle, no matter what we run, either condi power or hybrid our dmg is less than core.

    Because having short range should also mean you do less damage and have no ways to actually stick to a target or properly maintain adequate anti-power defense.

    I mean, doesn't it make sense that dagger has more gap-closers AND damage than sword, plus more range, and more damage? Sword has all that defense in those two evade skills (vs. one on a shorter CD on dagger).

    Weaver is so clunky to play...Ele is all about using attunements for on-demand access to skills, while weaver is all about...never having the skill you need and instead having even more lack-luster skills ontop of it!

    I disagree, Weaver plays fine it just doesnt do enough dmg, i mean the only 2 skills that do dmg is cauterizing strike and rusty frenzy, which both arent even going above 4k when u got 20 stacks of might.
    I mean weaver was an dangerous close combat dmg dealer, yet all we get is mediocre dmg with a few evades, they need to buff the dmg of sword badly or it'l be a dead on release class.

  • Azel.4786Azel.4786 Member ✭✭✭

    @BlackBeard.2873 said:

    @MrAidenVoid.7416 said:
    So, why does weaver still hit like a wet noodle, no matter what we run, either condi power or hybrid our dmg is less than core.

    Because having short range should also mean you do less damage and have no ways to actually stick to a target or properly maintain adequate anti-power defense.

    I mean, doesn't it make sense that dagger has more gap-closers AND damage than sword, plus more range, and more damage? Sword has all that defense in those two evade skills (vs. one on a shorter CD on dagger).

    Weaver is so clunky to play...Ele is all about using attunements for on-demand access to skills, while weaver is all about...never having the skill you need and instead having even more lack-luster skills ontop of it!

    I admit I am getting very disappointed by the minute with the Weaver. It feels terribly clunky and does awful damage.

    Sword skills are terribly weak (I swap to fire from Air and I kick myself for not having Fire 3, but instead the dual skill that does pitful damage in Sword and in Dagger). Plus a lot of times I wish to have the off hand skills or have the weapon 3 skill not be the worthless dual skill, but alas no luck.

    And again, I can't stress this enough - the traits are god awful.

    Sad to see how the spec is turning out to be and I guess I might as well just transfer my legendaries to my mesmer or my necro for better use.

  • I was liking weaver, until I played next to my friends on holosmith, spellbreaker and firebrand. Weaver needs work -.-. Sword might as well be a wet noodle.

  • Damage is super low but survivability is insane. I'm enjoying that part while it lasts!

  • katniss.6735katniss.6735 Member ✭✭✭

    I'm enjoying d/c's and infinite loading screens in pve land while I try to figure out Sw/F. I think I died like 10 times at least as marauder w/fresh air/weaver.

  • plushiesoda.8150plushiesoda.8150 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 23, 2017

    I only played weaver during the beta weekend so I may be wrong, but to tell you the truth most complains outside

    • attunement change GCD
    • sword aa speed
    • leap's "cast time"
    • Unravel, Weave Self

    seem like complete nonsense to me an part of the reason why Devs ignore our complaints at all. Condi clear on water is fine, most classes have to take a defensive trait-line in order to survive on pvp modes, more often than not for just a trait. So i'm actually in for hex change and glad that there's some interaction between weaver and water. (I do agree that it may not work that well against confusion charges though)

    However weaver is too squishy to be a melee spec and the way our barrier works at the moment makes it laughable. We're squishier than core thief, but lacking their ability to get "in and out" from the fray.

    For me at least what weaver really needs is:

    • The total removal of sword cast times, AA speed comes included into this (we're a melee spec, not casters)
    • Bulkier barriers to compensate our "lack of mobility/evades" IN A FRAY, let me repeat IN A FRAY, IN A FRAY, IN A FRAY, IN A FRAY (and no, superspeed and 40%speed won't save you from that (CORE) warrior spamming 7k AAs)
    • A reduction on attunement change to a maximum of 1 sec ( ideally 0.5 so we can "weave" instead of sitting on lighting most of the time)
    • A way of weaving our elements more "immediately", like the classical f1~f4 for your first element and shift+f1 for fire, shift+f2 for water, etc
    • Unravel (utility) an Weave Self (elite) feel clunky and shouldn't be skills, but "part of the spec mechanics" as such, these two really, really need a rework or their complete deletion.

    which actually are more of the complaints out there lol.

    From a WvsW perspective while I admit that elementalist needs a "DPS" specialization, tempest (group support+healing+sustain) and weaver (roamer melee bruiser) weren't coinceived to fill such a roll. So sadly (or gladly in my case) we're sticking to auramancer healbot or weaver roamer in WvsW for this expansion.

    (unless they rework elemental weapons to something alike to engineer kits which would turn weaver into the best class ever)

  • TwilightSoul.9048TwilightSoul.9048 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 23, 2017

    Having played Weaver a bit now (staff power build, because I like the staff dual skills) there where two major issues for me.

    1. I have Autocast on Air #4. When I'm attuned to Earth/Air I won't Autocast #4 Air Skill because I do not have Autocast on #4 Earth. But when I'm in Fire/Fire and switch to Air/Fire I will suddenly Auto Cast my Fire #4 (since I have Autocast on Air #4) which almost killed me a few times in WvW. Please fix auto cast keybinds to stick to their Elements no matter if they're on left or right hand! ** EDIT:** Forgot to mention, when I'm in Earth/Fire and switch to Air/Earth (remember I have Autocast on Air #4) I will suddenly cast Fire #4 even though I just switched to Air/Earth!
    2. Like many others mentioned already, having so much cooldown on switching attunements is defying the purpose of the weaver. I think 4s to get to a different Attunement is okay (not perfect but I can live with that) But it should be shorter for any Attunements you're currently in. For example if I was in Fire/Fire and switch to Air/Fire the Cooldown on Earth & Water can be 4s but Fire & Air should have somewhere around 0.5s-1.5s CD but no more.

    Some Minor issues would be:

    • The fact that beeing in x/Air doesn't grant any Air traits (No movement speed, no precision, why design a spec around the ability to wield two attunements if you only gain the benefit of one?)
    • The Cooldown of the Dual Skills should be slightly lower
    • The Traits could be more interesting (Not really much of a choice there, for Power builds you take 1|2|1 or 2 and for hybrid it's 1/1/1 or 2 (maybe 3 on the first choice if you're wielding sword but I haven't tried sword at all so yeah)
    • Piledriver (Air+Earth Dualskill) should have higher range, somewhere around 1600. I love the skill but it's really disappointing to watch your cannonball fly and just vanish right in front of your enemies face.
    • Not sure about this last point, maybe I just had some weird laggs but sometimes after the improved swiftness (40% movement speed instead of 33%) expired I would be a lot slower then normal speed until I buff swiftness again. As in, I'm not in combat, buff swiftness, am super fast, swiftness expires and I'm moving at in-combat-speed although I'm not in combat. I buff swiftness again, everything normal, after swiftness expires as well. Couldn't reproduce this though but it happened once or twice. As I said I'm not sure if this is a bug or just a well timed weird lagg on my side.

    (Sidenote: I'm super happy with how PoF has turned out, so far I absolutely love the maps and the story, that more then makes up for my disappointment in weaver :) )

    As the old worlds fall behind
    Our spirit reaches wide
    With no fear breathing new life
    Awaken from the dark dark slumber

    Wintersun - Awaken from the dark slumber (Spring) - Part II The Awakening

  • Just playing the start of PoF story now and sword is so underpowered its ridiculous. This has been feedback since the testing so why so few changes.

  • ArmageddonAsh.6430ArmageddonAsh.6430 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 23, 2017

    @Karl McLain.5604 said:

    • Unravel Hexes: Trait has been renamed to Woven Stride. Trait now grants swiftness when inhibiting conditions are inflicted, regeneration when swiftness or superspeed is gained, and increases swiftness effectiveness from 33% to 40%.

    This change is SO annoying, this shows 100% that Anet WANT to force ele to be reliant on the Water trait line for condi removal. This trait COULD have been a great way to not shoehorn players into Water, but no. That wouldn't be what Anet wants. Elementalists have been crying for GOOD condi removal outside of Water since beta! We had that in Diamond Skin, it was a GREAT trait that was strong but easily countered by not being full bunker Condi. That was then gutted and made useless.

    This trait IS the same. Without Water traitline, this trait is pretty dreadful. The worst part is, we have traits that slightly counter Movement condis. Our biggest problem with Conditions are the damaging ones, the ones that can melt you in seconds and this trait does NOTHING to help fix that. Even with taking Water, you are still reliant on using certain other traitlines and/or skills to get an affect from it. This isnt what Ele needed. They need a viable condi removal/counter that wasnt reliant on other traits lines. Wasnt reliant on needed specific skills and abilities

  • So, maybe I'm Wierd, but I think the gcd is fine. Granted im using arc/water/weav, but i rarely feel locked out when i need it. Using sw/d, I don't feel sword is weak outside of the AA. Honestly, I rarely get to the 3rd hit. Too busy weaving and using skills. Cast times need to drop or just get rid of the chain and boost the dmg.

    Arc/wat survivability is fantastic.

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Why not just make it a condi clear when you get swiftness or super speed?

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • @Jski.6180 said:
    Why not just make it a condi clear when you get swiftness or super speed?

    One simple reason. We wouldn't need Water. The biggest problem i have with it is that while other classes do have trait lines but those that dont have such great condi removal in traitlines, Mesmer for example. Have some great skills for condi removal, Phantasmal Disencharter for example is a HUGELY important skill, removes condis AND boons, has a MUCH lower cool down and if played right can stay up to continue removing boons and condis. Then look at Cleansing Fire - 3 Condis removed 3stacks of Burning for 4 seconds on a 40second cool down!? If you're not playing Condi or hybrid the burning is USELESS why does it have a 40second cool down!? Guardian get a stun break and a condi to boon skill on the same cool down!

    The other reason this would be a bad idea - it still requires another traitline, it would move from Water to being needed to make Air being needed and wouldnt do anything to change the need for specific skills, traits and weapons to make use of it. We need a condi removal that is based around Weaver. Not needing other Traitlines.

    How about this:

    Hexed Strikes: Using a Dual skill grants Resistance. Remove 1 Condition every second when you have Resistance active. Remove 1 condition every 1/2second when you have Barrier active.

    Make it so that its only SELF applied Barrier that grants the condi removal and i think this would be decent. I mean even with the 1 condi removed every 1/2second with Barrier still wouldnt make our barrier much good anyway. The 50second cool down barrier is like 3.5k. Easily countered by an auto attack lol

  • Karl, is sword designed to be a damage dealing weapon or not? Why are the AAs so slow and why does it get out DPS'd by every other weapon, including ranged ones?

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 23, 2017

    @ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:
    Why not just make it a condi clear when you get swiftness or super speed?

    One simple reason. We wouldn't need Water. The biggest problem i have with it is that while other classes do have trait lines but those that dont have such great condi removal in traitlines, Mesmer for example. Have some great skills for condi removal, Phantasmal Disencharter for example is a HUGELY important skill, removes condis AND boons, has a MUCH lower cool down and if played right can stay up to continue removing boons and condis. Then look at Cleansing Fire - 3 Condis removed 3stacks of Burning for 4 seconds on a 40second cool down!? If you're not playing Condi or hybrid the burning is USELESS why does it have a 40second cool down!? Guardian get a stun break and a condi to boon skill on the same cool down!

    The other reason this would be a bad idea - it still requires another traitline, it would move from Water to being needed to make Air being needed and wouldnt do anything to change the need for specific skills, traits and weapons to make use of it. We need a condi removal that is based around Weaver. Not needing other Traitlines.

    How about this:

    Hexed Strikes: Using a Dual skill grants Resistance. Remove 1 Condition every second when you have Resistance active. Remove 1 condition every 1/2second when you have Barrier active.

    Make it so that its only SELF applied Barrier that grants the condi removal and i think this would be decent. I mean even with the 1 condi removed every 1/2second with Barrier still wouldnt make our barrier much good anyway. The 50second cool down barrier is like 3.5k. Easily countered by an auto attack lol

    What are you talking about there not nearly enofe swiftness that ele can genrat to where you could only have the one trait to deal with all the condis in spvp and wvw. Must like you cant just have the water / reg version alone to deal with all the condis and offten you need to run both the clear and reg on other effects and clears from thoughts effects too. Tempest had to run reg on auras to make it worth it weaver would have to run swiftness on auras to make a blunt swiftness cleaing condis and we are talking about self only clears not group.

    Any way beyond that how can any one even call weaver a dmg line when there not even one unblockae burst skill. If there no anty dmg mitigation on a line it is NOT a dmg line.

    Who ever made this class knowing they been working on it for 4 years ish and this is what we have to show for it needs to realty answer for this. Look at other class elite spec and how many full condi clears they get the cd and the added effects weaver got the worst of it all from dmg condi clear heals unitlys stab boons the list goes on. This is a compel failure of a class and a lot of ppl should not be in a good places about this.

    I love the video too every one say it has its own rhythm nothing about how good it is or what effects it has they knew this was going to be a trainwreck of a class.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • @Jski.6180 said:
    What are you talking about there not nearly enofe swiftness that ele can genrat to where you could only have the one trait to deal with all the condis in spvp and wvw. Must like you cant just have the water / reg version alone to deal with all the condis and offten you need to run both the clear and reg on other effects and clears from thoughts effects too. Tempest had to run reg on auras to make it worth it weaver would have to run swiftness on auras to make a blunt swiftness cleaing condis and we are talking about self only clears not group.

    Any way beyond that how can any one even call weaver a dmg line when there not even one unblockae burst skill. If there no anty dmg mitigation on a line it is NOT a dmg line.

    Who ever made this class knowing they been working on it for 4 years ish and this is what we have to show for it needs to realty answer for this. Look at other class elite spec and how many full condi clears they get the cd and the added effects weaver got the worst of it all from dmg condi clear heals unitlys stab boons the list goes on. This is a compel failure of a class and a lot of ppl should not be in a good places about this.

    I love the video too every one say it has its own rhythm nothing about how good it is or what effects it has they knew this was going to be a trainwreck of a class.

    That is what i was saying, needing a trait line (or 2) plus specific skills, other traits and utilities isnt how it should be. It would just move from Water being key to Air being key, but it would still need you to rely on specific skills, weapons and utilities to make it an effective condi removal trait. My point is, we need a way to remove condis reasonably well without needing to run OTHER specific traitlines, skills and utilities with it.

    So you consider a traitline as "damage" only if it has unblockable burst skills? Wouldnt that mean that ele has NONE because dele doesnt have a single unblockable burst skill trait. The closest would be the Arcane skills but even though they deal crit damage, they arent unblockable - does Ele even have any damage abilities that are unblockable? I know we have some CC abilities that are unblockable but that is about it.

  • MyPuppy.8970MyPuppy.8970 Member ✭✭✭✭

    As far as i'm concerned, i do ok in unranked; had better success with Water/Arcana than Water/Air (better protection uptime) and hybrid damage setup. Still, I heal more than I do damage... Maybe I'll go progressively towards a more agressive build/gameplay when I get accustomed. I don't mind attunement ICD, but overall the mechanic feels unrewarding. I hope my keyboard will survive.

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 23, 2017

    @ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:
    What are you talking about there not nearly enofe swiftness that ele can genrat to where you could only have the one trait to deal with all the condis in spvp and wvw. Must like you cant just have the water / reg version alone to deal with all the condis and offten you need to run both the clear and reg on other effects and clears from thoughts effects too. Tempest had to run reg on auras to make it worth it weaver would have to run swiftness on auras to make a blunt swiftness cleaing condis and we are talking about self only clears not group.

    Any way beyond that how can any one even call weaver a dmg line when there not even one unblockae burst skill. If there no anty dmg mitigation on a line it is NOT a dmg line.

    Who ever made this class knowing they been working on it for 4 years ish and this is what we have to show for it needs to realty answer for this. Look at other class elite spec and how many full condi clears they get the cd and the added effects weaver got the worst of it all from dmg condi clear heals unitlys stab boons the list goes on. This is a compel failure of a class and a lot of ppl should not be in a good places about this.

    I love the video too every one say it has its own rhythm nothing about how good it is or what effects it has they knew this was going to be a trainwreck of a class.

    That is what i was saying, needing a trait line (or 2) plus specific skills, other traits and utilities isnt how it should be. It would just move from Water being key to Air being key, but it would still need you to rely on specific skills, weapons and utilities to make it an effective condi removal trait. My point is, we need a way to remove condis reasonably well without needing to run OTHER specific traitlines, skills and utilities with it.

    So you consider a traitline as "damage" only if it has unblockable burst skills? Wouldnt that mean that ele has NONE because dele doesnt have a single unblockable burst skill trait. The closest would be the Arcane skills but even though they deal crit damage, they arent unblockable - does Ele even have any damage abilities that are unblockable? I know we have some CC abilities that are unblockable but that is about it.

    Not even close becuse weaver it self has good swiftness out put its just self only as well as one condi clear by it self even on a low cd is not that effective in dealing with real condi builds. So getting a reg ever 1 is not that powerfull with the cleaing water. You need to get a reg and a clear at least such as water 5 from staff. This is why dimon skin will never work as a 1 sec cd for 1 condi per getting hit. Its all to easy to spam cover condis. So even with air line it would not be enofe becuse its still one condi per switfness. The water line has other condis clears that will stack up and burst clear from the burst condi.

    YES if a traitline has no anty dmg migration like unblockable anty boons anty healing its not a real dmg line. Gw2 is a game of self support every class has it at some level some more then others but every class needs a line to deal with these self support ele is the one class in GW2 who has no counters to this self support. It was ok because these lines at its core and tempest where never seen as dmg lines. Weaver IS a dmg line but it lacks ever bit of tools that a dmg line needs to be viable in gw2. Raw dmg is meaningless and only works in pve (and often adding in unblockable effects boon strip even anty heals do not changes the balancing one bit in pve so these effects are pure pvp only). In pvp (the real gw2 i would suggest GW over all) raw dmg dose nothing.

    As things stand weaver is a tank line pure and simple. We got a tempest .9 or a tank spec that can only support it self or a down grind of the tempest class.

    Add on:

    Look ele is the only class in the game who dose not have a good set of unblockables good condi dmg any anty boons as a class. It the only thing that is unique to the class sadly. For this ele gets nothing not one effect over other classes weaver was the line that should at some level have these effects and it did not get them. There is something profoundly wrong with Anet and there views on the ele class. Why would anyone be so "angry" at there own creation to do such bad things is beyond me but the dev NEED to be called into question about there hate of ele class.

    @Karl McLain.5604
    Why is the only significant thing about the ele class is what it lacks and not what it has? You need to self reflect on this question and try to respond to it.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • MyPuppy.8970MyPuppy.8970 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Eles are cursed since launch for having twice as much skills than other profs. So halved damage/effect and double cd/cast time.

  • @Jski.6180
    Weaver has decent Swiftness, again if you use the right accompanying traits and abilities. But is it madness to want Condition removal that isnt reliant so heavily on other traits or skills? The sword does have it on the Air auto attack, however this again means reliant on having the right build. If you are hybrid or full condi then you'll be removing condis which is nice but you would be doing no damage as your threat comes from fire and Earth.

    Dagger has no access to Swiftness on the MH and only 1 skill on the OH on a 40second cool down. Scepter has NO access. Staff does have a 25second cool down Swiftness as well as a Lightening field so with the right finishers you could get some. Focus also has NO swiftness. You do get the Swiftness on Dual attack trait but again, this is more of a direct damage build trait but this then means if you're wanting to use them for the condi removal having to be reliant on the attunement cool downs and hoping the fight is going the right way to allow such constant attunement swapping.

    Does that mean that all the other new trait lines cant be called damage lines if they dont come with unblockable damage?

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 23, 2017

    @ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:
    @Jski.6180
    Weaver has decent Swiftness, again if you use the right accompanying traits and abilities. But is it madness to want Condition removal that isnt reliant so heavily on other traits or skills? The sword does have it on the Air auto attack, however this again means reliant on having the right build. If you are hybrid or full condi then you'll be removing condis which is nice but you would be doing no damage as your threat comes from fire and Earth.

    Dagger has no access to Swiftness on the MH and only 1 skill on the OH on a 40second cool down. Scepter has NO access. Staff does have a 25second cool down Swiftness as well as a Lightening field so with the right finishers you could get some. Focus also has NO swiftness. You do get the Swiftness on Dual attack trait but again, this is more of a direct damage build trait but this then means if you're wanting to use them for the condi removal having to be reliant on the attunement cool downs and hoping the fight is going the right way to allow such constant attunement swapping.

    Does that mean that all the other new trait lines cant be called damage lines if they dont come with unblockable damage?

    It gets most of its swiftness from burst skills if you build for it (all though it bets barrier on its burst skills build in but no benefit from having barrier or applying it and scorges gets condi clears from that!) your getting back to the problem of only 1 condi clear per effect its not enofe with out blut dmg -% condi dmg taken that ele as a class lacks. So even if it was swiftness clears and not the swiftness gives you reg something far weaker your not going to have the end all be on clear but it would be better then the worthlessness they added in.

    If the weapons that the line is made for has no unblockable anty boons or anty healing or effects in one way or another it is not a dmg class less then a non dmg line. It dose not have to have all 3 but it needs 1 of the 3 at least to be called a dmg line.

    @MyPuppy.8970 said:
    Eles are cursed since launch for having twice as much skills than other profs. So halved damage/effect and double cd/cast time.

    Eles are cursed by being defined as an balancing ideal by the lack of what they have not what they have.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • @Jski.6180 - What burst skills are you referring to out of curiosity?
    I think my idea of making it so that when you have Barrier up that you take no damage from conditions would be good, kind of like an active version of the old Diamond Skin trait. It would still need our Barrier traits and skills to be buffed as they are still very much trash.

    heres the part i was talking about Change Woven Strikes to Hexed Strikes:
    Hexed Strikes: You take reduced damage from Conditions when you have barrier active. Remove 1 condition every 1/2second when you have Barrier active.

    I would say making it an active version of the old Diamond Skin would be good. So you become immune to conditions while you have Barrier up and you remove condis with it being active. I think the reason this would be balanced is because we have really low access to Barrier unlike say Scourge. Along with this, i would buff Elemental Refreshment to make it at least 1k base and maybe improve the scaling for it because Ele has VERY low access to it and its meant to be pretty much our defense when in melee.

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:
    @Jski.6180 - What burst skills are you referring to out of curiosity?
    I think my idea of making it so that when you have Barrier up that you take no damage from conditions would be good, kind of like an active version of the old Diamond Skin trait. It would still need our Barrier traits and skills to be buffed as they are still very much trash.

    heres the part i was talking about Change Woven Strikes to Hexed Strikes:
    Hexed Strikes: You take reduced damage from Conditions when you have barrier active. Remove 1 condition every 1/2second when you have Barrier active.

    I would say making it an active version of the old Diamond Skin would be good. So you become immune to conditions while you have Barrier up and you remove condis with it being active. I think the reason this would be balanced is because we have really low access to Barrier unlike say Scourge. Along with this, i would buff Elemental Refreshment to make it at least 1k base and maybe improve the scaling for it because Ele has VERY low access to it and its meant to be pretty much our defense when in melee.

    The slow dmg ones? Out of 40 ish skills one is unblockable mud slide but its not a dmg skill. Unblockable is the only realy anty dmg migation ele as a class has. The slow moving or long cast burst skills need to be unblockable. But to just have one dam skill unblockable with out adding in any other effects like anty healing or anty boons is a joke for real dmg.

    Taking no condi dmg when you have barrier up is to much i think it needs to just be take less dmg from condi when you have barrier up. Barrier on weaver seems like its a core class effect not swiftness and super speed as its build in and not trated for so having barrier up should give you a few effects.
    The old diamond skin was to much with a class like tempest so much heal but as is the 1 condi clear per sec per hit realy dose not cut it on its own.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • @Jski.6180
    Given how the barriers can be killed with just a few auto attacks and given how fast they degrade i think it would be fine to have them so that they are immune to conditions while active. This would give the ele the chance to recover and the other person could even use other skills and attacks to help take down the barrier faster . This would still be an active use so it would be about the other person (the condi player) trying to save his/her big condi bombs after they have baited your barrier use with the auto attack spamming and other conditions, which most classes have on many, many abilities.

    The old diamond skin was SO easy to counter. It was simple: Don't be full condi bunker. It would take even now on my Ele 2k damage to get me below 90% health. No class should really win a fight if they cant deal 2,000 direct damage. Any Hybrid build countered Diamond Skin with ease. The only problem was that Anet made Condition builds focus on Bunker. They put every stat into Toughness/Vit and Condition damage. Now with stat combos like Grievers the Old Diamond skin wouldnt actually be that good, it was only good because 99% of condition builds were Bunker Condi.

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ArmageddonAsh.6430
    Its not just about the barrier from the weaver its about the barrier from the scorge. If your getting immune (and i dislike any thing that is giving out immune effects no real counter play so not fun to have) with a scorge you may never feel the effect of condis so it would be to powerful. I suggest a 15% or 20% dmg - vs condis when the weaver has barrier up as well as weaver doing more dmg.

    On stop of the slower / longer cast time bust effects becoming unblockable. Maybe even make some of the slower sword skills unblockable that are non burst say the 3ed hit in the chain as you must put a lot of time into getting to that 3ed hit.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • @Jski.6180 I should have added that it would ONLY be from Barrier that you apply to yourself. Barrier you get from anyone else doesnt affect the trait. This would stop the Scourge/Ele unkillable combo. Though, of course i am not sure how it would work. maybe have it that barrier you get from another class would be in a different colour or something so you could tell?

    Also remember, this would be a GM Weaver trait. Thus it wouldnt affect any other class.

    I think skills like Pile Driver, i am guessing hat is one of the main ones you are talking about would be a little too powerful if it was unblockable in group fights. I actually think that the Sword auto attacks should have their speed increased. No idea why the cast times are so slow for them :/

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:
    @Jski.6180 I should have added that it would ONLY be from Barrier that you apply to yourself. Barrier you get from anyone else doesnt affect the trait. This would stop the Scourge/Ele unkillable combo. Though, of course i am not sure how it would work. maybe have it that barrier you get from another class would be in a different colour or something so you could tell?

    Also remember, this would be a GM Weaver trait. Thus it wouldnt affect any other class.

    I think skills like Pile Driver, i am guessing hat is one of the main ones you are talking about would be a little too powerful if it was unblockable in group fights. I actually think that the Sword auto attacks should have their speed increased. No idea why the cast times are so slow for them :/

    I do not think there tech can do that a barrier is a barrier think on thoughs lines. So weaver needs to take some dmg from condis and be effected by them but having a barrier up should help them deal with the effects.

    Pile driver, Twin Strike, Gale Strike, Plasma Blast, and Plasma Beam should all be unblockable burst skills. That what you give to weaver or you give it anty healing or anty boons or just give it an unblockabe all attks stances like ALL OF THE OTHER CLASSES IN THE GAME. IT should be powerful as they take longer cast time and offten root you to cast them. You put up all the risk to land big hits where other classes just get all of there attks unblockable for x sec with out any though of how hard they hit there cast time or cd.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • Ashamir.9574Ashamir.9574 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 24, 2017

    I want to add some feedback after doing two map completions on weaver.

    I liked that I can now switch from water/earth to full water, for example. So If I need the defensive skills of an element I can get them with 1 swap, that helps a lot. Also the global CD is still hindering, and I still think it should be like 2 sec instead of 4 sec. No CD would definitely be too good, but at least having a trait that reduces CDs should have been a must if it isn't straight up changed.

    The traits... still feel lackluster. They're not memorable. The damage on the 3 skill, ok. The rest ¯_(ツ)_/¯

    What really gets to me is the missing damage. I'm full zeker, a total glass cannon, <12k HP, and I hit like a wet noodle. This is a melee spec and I stand right there dying with the veteran on 10% because he one-hit's me – like srsly there's a hero point in Desert Highlands that plain nukes me. That's not a l2p issue at that point.

  • foozlesprite.8051foozlesprite.8051 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 24, 2017

    The damage is what's missing on the sword, for sure. I feel far more survivable than I thought I'd be thanks to the movement skills, but sword/dagger just makes me feel sad since I love the concept of melee mages, yet my friend that plays a mesmer is in there beside me with axe+sword killing things almost twice as fast. I bought a sword because I want to cut someone with it, not slap them with the flat of the blade.

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I am doing my best to get weaver to work as dmg in wvw but it seems like even the highish dmg builds is not out dpsing tempest overloaded. You have better spike dmg but air overloads are soo much stronger then any thing weaver can do as a class its not worth runing. Anet did you even try a side by side game play to see if your just putting out something that is made for dmg that is weaker then something that was made for support. In the span of 4-3 years what did you really do to test this class out.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • Solori.6025Solori.6025 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Jski.6180 said:
    I am doing my best to get weaver to work as dmg in wvw but it seems like even the highish dmg builds is not out dpsing tempest overloaded. You have better spike dmg but air overloads are soo much stronger then any thing weaver can do as a class its not worth runing. Anet did you even try a side by side game play to see if your just putting out something that is made for dmg that is weaker then something that was made for support. In the span of 4-3 years what did you really do to test this class out.

    I agree with this.
    The weaver is so bad for dps it's actually better for me to stay as a tempest and just do water bot ele
    If this is a bruiser spec I want to know what we were supposed to be bruising.

    To reiterate feedback from a month ago,

    -The damage is not their on power sword.
    I could take any other light armored class with zerk stats and out perform the weaver at every turn

    -The sword AA attacks are too slow
    They are as slow as greatsword attacks and afaik the slowest single handed melee weapon in the game, on a class with the lowest health. REALLY?!

    Tingle my stingleberry

  • cgMatt.5162cgMatt.5162 Member ✭✭✭

    I still agree that post-launch PoF, sword damage is still too low.

    I sort of found a staff rotation that works for WvW that mostly involves avoiding attunement to Air, but if you do go to Air, then exit with Water for the chill unless you know you're in a good position/safe to use Earth/Air 3 Pile Driver because it roots you in place to cast. It still should be really strong and have good AOE pressure with all the dual skills. It doesn't really offer much to WvW zerg play outside of damage and hard/soft CC. It can be built like the classic squishy backline builds that can't reliably offer water fields on regroup without Unravel. I still want to test healing and condi damage scaling later, but right now I'm thinking cele staff or marauder might be okay.

  • My biggest gripe is that we only got 3 utility skills. "Don't use your elite spec gimmick for 5 seconds" isn't a utility skills, it should be the F5 for weaver with whatever cooldown.

  • Wolfric.9380Wolfric.9380 Member ✭✭✭

    Oh please don´t give regen again... Al plea for viable non water ele in sPvP and WvW ....

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