Holosmith Specialization Updates for the Path of Fire Launch — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Holosmith Specialization Updates for the Path of Fire Launch

Hey everyone. With Path of Fire only a few days away we wanted to give you a quick summary of the changes to Holosmith that we’ve made since the demo.

  • Photon Forge: Fixed an issue where Photon Forge skills did more damage in PvP than intended. PvP damage values reduced by about 20% as a result.
  • Sword Auto Attack: Retimed attacks in this sequence to flow better.
  • Radiant Arc: Reduced aftercast of this ability by around 1/4 second to better allow for Quickness usage.
  • Hard Light Arena: Now shares boons with allies in the arena at half duration.
  • Crystal Configuration Storm: Fixed a bug which allowed projectiles to be fired behind you. Lowered damage by 10% when compared to normal photon forge auto attacks. Changed projectile behavior to fire in straight lines rather than hovering relative to ground height.
  • Enhanced Capacity Storage Unit: Reduced might duration from 8 seconds to 6 seconds.
  • Photonic Blasting Module: This trait now shows a red ring for enemies (and a white ring for the caster) prior to detonation so you can see the affected area. Reduced damage by 20%. Fixed an issue with the damage fact not showing the correct values. Increased burn stacks from 1 to 2.

It’s fairly safe to say that Holosmith was doing a little too much damage during the demo weekend. A large portion of this imbalance came from a particular nuance of the PvP environment which scaled up the damage on Photon Forge. This has been corrected and forge damage will be consistent between game modes on release. A few other traits that we felt were overperforming have had their damage reduced as well. The rest of the changes were all aimed at improving flow between skills and addressing some missing functionality in a few areas.

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Comments

  • Arimas.3492Arimas.3492 Member ✭✭✭

    Nice. These are some solid changes. Will core engi be getting any changes in launch update?

  • @Arimas.3492 said:
    Nice. These are some solid changes. Will core engi be getting any changes in launch update?

    Pretty sure this was done in the last balance pass.

  • Arimas.3492Arimas.3492 Member ✭✭✭

    @Drago.4158 said:

    @Arimas.3492 said:
    Nice. These are some solid changes. Will core engi be getting any changes in launch update?

    Pretty sure this was done in the last balance pass.

    Yeah it was with every class. Figured I'd ask though cause on the warrior post it said it was getting additional changes to core warrior as well. Also new mechanic is coming to the game so some classes will get that too.

  • @Drago.4158 said:

    @Arimas.3492 said:
    Nice. These are some solid changes. Will core engi be getting any changes in launch update?

    Pretty sure this was done in the last balance pass.

    It was hinted at different class posts that core/HoT elites would get changes so yeah, maybe core engi gets something additional (hoping so too).

  • Solid changes, my only issue with Holosmith really was some of the toolbelts feeling lackluster and the sword feeling clunky now that it seems that has been fixed I can't wait to go back to main my first level 80

  • Xyonon.3987Xyonon.3987 Member ✭✭✭

    @Robert Gee.9246 said:

    • Photon Forge: Fixed an issue where Photon Forge skills did more damage in PvP than intended. PvP damage values reduced by about 20% as a result.

    Wasn't the bug that photon forge in pve used "blue item weapon damage" and therefore was too weak rather than vice versa? I really hope the damage is still fine :S We'll see in a day ^^

  • @Afearthenrut.9154 said:
    When will the other engi weapons get to be used with this new line? How can you absolve yourself of working it with other engi weapons when you do for all the other classes? Since kits are pointless, where is our weapon swap?

    Kits are not useless. you just need to be cognizant of your rotation. Going into Photon forge means you are committing to it for at least 6 seconds.

  • Xyonon.3987Xyonon.3987 Member ✭✭✭

    @Afearthenrut.9154 said:
    When will the other engi weapons get to be used with this new line? How can you absolve yourself of working it with other engi weapons when you do for all the other classes? Since kits are pointless, where is our weapon swap?

    Kit's aren't pointless, you just can't abuse Forge like a kit. You can still run kits and use them after 5s. While I also disagree that we need a weapon swap, I do agree that we need some Holosmith / heat synergy with older weapons.

    Shield still needs a lot of love, main hand pistol aswell and rifle barely made it to be a "good weapon" for just one (and a half) skills. All these weapons could use a boost with "above 50% heat".

  • @Arimas.3492 said:
    Nice. These are some solid changes. Will core engi be getting any changes in launch update?

    All other PoF elite spec change posts mention other changes to core and gen 1 elite specs that will be posted on the 22nd, I'm sure they simply forgot to mention it for the Engineer

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  • Xyonon.3987Xyonon.3987 Member ✭✭✭

    @lorddarkflare.9186 said:

    @Xyonon.3987 said:

    @Afearthenrut.9154 said:
    When will the other engi weapons get to be used with this new line? How can you absolve yourself of working it with other engi weapons when you do for all the other classes? Since kits are pointless, where is our weapon swap?

    Kit's aren't pointless, you just can't abuse Forge like a kit. You can still run kits and use them after 5s. While I also disagree that we need a weapon swap, I do agree that we need some Holosmith / heat synergy with older weapons.

    Shield still needs a lot of love, main hand pistol aswell and rifle barely made it to be a "good weapon" for just one (and a half) skills. All these weapons could use a boost with "above 50% heat".

    Ehh, the core weapons need buffs as part of the core class.

    Can't disagree with that statement either. The only really good weapon for core engi right now is the offhand pistol. :/

  • Adamantium.3682Adamantium.3682 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 21, 2017

    Love the Hard Light Arena change, thanks!

    I'm bummed heat mechanic is still limited to sword. We've made our case though, I feel this may happen in a future patch but the door is sort of closed for release.

    From the weekend we had with Holo in PvP I can see how that damage might need to be toned down. 20% seems steep, but I'm willing to see how the builds play out.

    I'm skeptical it will have enough damage in PvE (I think it should be at the top of power based damage since that's kind of the whole point of the spec) but I'm willing to wait and see on that. Based on what many have proved, transform damage is not where it should be in PvE and I hope that doesn't hurt the Holo. Maybe the 20% nerf in PvP was because it was tuned for PvE even including that bug? That would be nice.

    The other changes seem fair. There was never a need to stack THAT much might on ECSU, and PBM was getting ridiculous crits. Good to see the sword should flow better.

    It would be great if there were other changes to core and/or Scrapper you could share with us? I haven't read every single profession thread but it does appear that others got something in their core Profession and Engi certainly could use that.

    [TNO] Gizmo Gigawatt

  • Has photon forge weapon damage modifier been normalised in PvE to be in line with other kits?

  • @Robert Gee.9246 said:
    Hey everyone. With Path of Fire only a few days away we wanted to give you a quick summary of the changes to Holosmith that we’ve made since the demo.

    • Photon Forge: Fixed an issue where Photon Forge skills did more damage in PvP than intended. PvP damage values reduced by about 20% as a result.
    • Sword Auto Attack: Retimed attacks in this sequence to flow better.
    • Radiant Arc: Reduced aftercast of this ability by around 1/4 second to better allow for Quickness usage.
    • Hard Light Arena: Now shares boons with allies in the arena at half duration.
    • Crystal Configuration Storm: Fixed a bug which allowed projectiles to be fired behind you. Lowered damage by 10% when compared to normal photon forge auto attacks. Changed projectile behavior to fire in straight lines rather than hovering relative to ground height.
    • Enhanced Capacity Storage Unit: Reduced might duration from 8 seconds to 6 seconds.
    • Photonic Blasting Module: This trait now shows a red ring for enemies (and a white ring for the caster) prior to detonation so you can see the affected area. Reduced damage by 20%. Fixed an issue with the damage fact not showing the correct values. Increased burn stacks from 1 to 2.

    It’s fairly safe to say that Holosmith was doing a little too much damage during the demo weekend. A large portion of this imbalance came from a particular nuance of the PvP environment which scaled up the damage on Photon Forge. This has been corrected and forge damage will be consistent between game modes on release. A few other traits that we felt were overperforming have had their damage reduced as well. The rest of the changes were all aimed at improving flow between skills and addressing some missing functionality in a few areas.

    Definitely saw the nerf coming so this isn't a surprise at all and TBH I'm glad because it was way too high anyways. I like the other changes as well so thanks for doing this before we had an army of FoTM idiots rooming around like what happened during HoT with DH.

  • Holosmith was definitely too strong in PvP and WvW, but I never got the impression it was too strong in PvE. Granted it was very difficult to tell in open world maps but I was starting to doubt it would be that much of an improvement over regular base Engineer. Some of the quality of life changes are great and all but I do hope PvE isn't going to get dragged down because of PvP and the bug/issue that was present there.

  • Xyonon.3987Xyonon.3987 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 21, 2017

    @Bovan.9481 said:
    Holosmith was definitely too strong in PvP and WvW, but I never got the impression it was too strong in PvE.

    Afaik WvW used the PvE stats, so the lowered version unlike PvP. Tell me if I'm wrong tho ...

  • @Xyonon.3987 said:

    @Bovan.9481 said:
    Holosmith was definitely too strong in PvP and WvW, but I never got the impression it was too strong in PvE.

    Afaik WvW used the PvE stats, so the lowered version unlike PvP. Tell me if I'm wrong tho ...

    That's how it always used to be, but as far as I'm aware they now have the ability to split WvW and PvE as well. Even if that's not the case I didn't feel WvW was too overpowering either because of the nature of the gamemode. But I dare not say too much about WvW because I haven't spend much of my time testing outside of PvP and the first open world map of the expansion.

  • Xyonon.3987Xyonon.3987 Member ✭✭✭

    @Bovan.9481 said:

    @Xyonon.3987 said:

    @Bovan.9481 said:
    Holosmith was definitely too strong in PvP and WvW, but I never got the impression it was too strong in PvE.

    Afaik WvW used the PvE stats, so the lowered version unlike PvP. Tell me if I'm wrong tho ...

    That's how it always used to be, but as far as I'm aware they now have the ability to split WvW and PvE as well. Even if that's not the case I didn't feel WvW was too overpowering either because of the nature of the gamemode. But I dare not say too much about WvW because I haven't spend much of my time testing outside of PvP and the first open world map of the expansion.

    Yea I also believe pretty much everyone went full zerk for the beta anyway so yup - also seen some crazy Deadeye oneshots. :P We just need time to adapt and after that rebalance if necessary.

  • @Xyonon.3987 said:

    @Bovan.9481 said:

    @Xyonon.3987 said:

    @Bovan.9481 said:
    Holosmith was definitely too strong in PvP and WvW, but I never got the impression it was too strong in PvE.

    Afaik WvW used the PvE stats, so the lowered version unlike PvP. Tell me if I'm wrong tho ...

    That's how it always used to be, but as far as I'm aware they now have the ability to split WvW and PvE as well. Even if that's not the case I didn't feel WvW was too overpowering either because of the nature of the gamemode. But I dare not say too much about WvW because I haven't spend much of my time testing outside of PvP and the first open world map of the expansion.

    Yea I also believe pretty much everyone went full zerk for the beta anyway so yup - also seen some crazy Deadeye oneshots. :P We just need time to adapt and after that rebalance if necessary.

    Yeah, absolutely. I just believe that expressing concerns early on is a positive thing. I'm sure I can speak for everyone if I say that I'm concerned it's not quite going to hit the mark, and that I wish the best for the class and really want to make it work. I am super excited to see what the sword changes are going to feel like.

  • @Robert Gee.9246 said:

    @Arimas.3492 said:
    Nice. These are some solid changes. Will core engi be getting any changes in launch update?

    Yes, but mostly just bugfixes.

    We'll take bugfixes just fine, thank you very much for them! <3

  • A li'l disappointed there wasn't any rework to the heat benefits for the sword auto attack. Flat crit % is largely useless in harder content, so it looks like we'll just stick with rifle and bomb kit while cooling down. Unless "Retimed attacks in this sequence to flow better" makes it attack a fair bit faster, anywho, or the tooltips might've been incorrect during the stress tests (meaning 25/50% more crit damage instead of chance).

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Is there any possibility that other weapons will get a hit component added to them? This kinda hinders them compared to sword.

  • leviathan.2148leviathan.2148 Member ✭✭
    edited September 21, 2017

    @Robert Gee.9246 said:

    • Hard Light Arena: Now shares boons with allies in the arena at half duration.

    Could you please clarify whether it shares all player's boons or only boons generated by this skill? If it shared all player's boons it would be finally a good useful group utility for engi that wouldn't be passive. Also is there a person cap?

    I'm an engineer - a pianist of destruction! Now please go back to standing in my AOE.

  • @leviathan.2148 said:

    @Robert Gee.9246 said:

    • Hard Light Arena: Now shares boons with allies in the arena at half duration.

    Could you please clarify whether it shares all player's boons or only boons generated by this skill? If it shared all player's boons it would be finally a good useful group utility for engi that wouldn't be passive. Also is there a person cap?

    I am 99% sure that it applies the boons to non-player allies standing in the arena now.

  • @lorddarkflare.9186 said
    I am 99% sure that it applies the boons to non-player allies standing in the arena now.

    Well yeah, I'm just wondering whether it applies only boons it generates or it allows me to share i.e. 25 stacks of might I'll generate in Forge with my party.

    I'm an engineer - a pianist of destruction! Now please go back to standing in my AOE.

  • @leviathan.2148 said:

    @lorddarkflare.9186 said
    I am 99% sure that it applies the boons to non-player allies standing in the arena now.

    Well yeah, I'm just wondering whether it applies only boons it generates or it allows me to share i.e. 25 stacks of might I'll generate in Forge with my party.

    Well that's what I am saying, I doubt it does that. That would be brand new functionality and _much _more powerful than it was before.

    The other option makes a lot more sense.

  • Adamantium.3682Adamantium.3682 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 21, 2017

    Yes, there's no chance it does anything other than 1s of Fury/Protection/Regen per pulse to allies while we get 2s per pulse. Which is really awesome and more than I was hoping for when I posted in the other thread about this skill. Thanks again Robert for making this happen!

    I still would like to see heat bonuses on core weapons (and >100% on Exceed skills), but I appreciate the early mini patch notes. Looking forward to the full version on Friday.

    [TNO] Gizmo Gigawatt

  • Arimas.3492Arimas.3492 Member ✭✭✭

    @Adamantium.3682 said:
    Yes, there's no chance it does anything other than 1s of Fury/Protection/Regen per pulse to allies while we get 2s per pulse. Which is really awesome and more than I was hoping for when I posted in the other thread about this skill. Thanks again Robert for making this happen!

    I still would like to see heat bonuses on core weapons (and >100% on Exceed skills), but I appreciate the early mini patch notes. Looking forward to the full version on Friday.

    Agreed, and even at half duration its not bad considering the skill is at a 1s interval, so as long as they stay in the area they get the boons for the full duration of the skill. Also the allies is probably 5 but it would be cool if over 50% heat it was more, but that might be asking too much.

  • Well it would be nice if Holo could be an alternative to PS warrior with sharing might IMO. But yeah, I won't hold my breath for this.

    I'm an engineer - a pianist of destruction! Now please go back to standing in my AOE.

  • @leviathan.2148 said:
    Well it would be nice if Holo could be an alternative to PS warrior with sharing might IMO. But yeah, I won't hold my breath for this.

    Maybe the next elite spec, but you can't have the damage of Holo and the boonshare of PS War! Need to stay realistic :) The change to HLA is nice because it's a small bit of support that adds a bit of value, not enough to step on any toes of actual support builds.

    [TNO] Gizmo Gigawatt

  • @Adamantium.3682 said:

    @leviathan.2148 said:
    Well it would be nice if Holo could be an alternative to PS warrior with sharing might IMO. But yeah, I won't hold my breath for this.

    Maybe the next elite spec, but you can't have the damage of Holo and the boonshare of PS War! Need to stay realistic :) The change to HLA is nice because it's a small bit of support that adds a bit of value, not enough to step on any toes of actual support builds.

    Well it wouldn't be that good with the halved boon duration although I guess they'd have to adjust 1s ticks to longer intervals.

    I'm an engineer - a pianist of destruction! Now please go back to standing in my AOE.

  • guildabd.6529guildabd.6529 Member ✭✭
    edited September 21, 2017

    @Robert Gee.9246 said:

    • Crystal Configuration Storm: Fixed a bug which allowed projectiles to be fired behind you. Lowered damage by 10% when compared to normal photon forge auto attacks. Changed projectile behavior to fire in straight lines rather than hovering relative to ground height.

    Does that mean it uses your camera angle when you use it without a target?

  • hugo.4705hugo.4705 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 21, 2017

    So no weapons swap and editing heat to make her affect other weapons... This Spec is half done: Only three first skills from sword interact with heat, what about shield 4,5 and pistol 4,5, hum? I'm see where it's going, a sword with three skills with a skin of light saber, that is all? This spec is aethetic, maniable but not finished 100% for me. It's kinda unfair 3 skills changed when some others elite have 5 totally new skills with one weapon. Also worrying wbout the tone down change power, hope it's only for pvp, because if that the case in Pve it will be hell, prefer keep my scrapper if that!

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  • @hugo.4705 said:
    So no weapons swap and editing heat to make her affect other weapons... This Spec is half done: Only three first skills from sword interact with heat, what about shield 4,5 and pistol 4,5, hum? I'm see where it's going, a sword with three skills with a skin of light saber, that is all? This spec is aethetic, maniable but not finished 100% for me. It's kinda unfair 3 skills changed when some others elite have 5 totally new skills with one weapon. Also worrying wbout the tone down change power, hope it's only for pvp, because if that the case in Pve it will be kitten, prefer keep my scrapper if that!

    Any of the new specs feels unfinished. The "patches" showed, that anet doesn't care or thinks they are fine. I don't know what is worse.

  • You guys are making way too big of a deal over other weapons not having a heat modification. Realistically, the only things that could be added would be quite insignificant because the weapons need to stand on their own. We're talking about things like Rifle#1 gaining a short bleed on auto, Rifle#3 getting +1 bleed stack, Rifle#5 apply extra vulnerability and so forth. It's just not worth the trouble.

    The only thing that needs to be balanced properly is the damage output of Photon Forge. We're giving up a couple of things to be able to get Photon Forge and we are unable to use kits during it. Personally I'm very worried whether Photon Forge lives up to the DPS loss from not being able to use other kit skills in PvE. PvP modes I'm sure it will work out just fine through the sheer utility it brings.

  • @Bovan.9481 said:
    You guys are making way too big of a deal over other weapons not having a heat modification. Realistically, the only things that could be added would be quite insignificant because the weapons need to stand on their own. We're talking about things like Rifle#1 gaining a short bleed on auto, Rifle#3 getting +1 bleed stack, Rifle#5 apply extra vulnerability and so forth. It's just not worth the trouble.

    The only thing that needs to be balanced properly is the damage output of Photon Forge. We're giving up a couple of things to be able to get Photon Forge and we are unable to use kits during it. Personally I'm very worried whether Photon Forge lives up to the DPS loss from not being able to use other kit skills in PvE. PvP modes I'm sure it will work out just fine through the sheer utility it brings.

    I agree somewhat. Sword itself has a less than decent damage output without any accumulated heat, which is why it has a heat mechanic (makes sense because engineers wouldn't really have finesse with swords so they use technology to enhance it.) My problem with other weapons not having heat modifications is that engineers already lack weapon swap, so dealing with people that are far away from you is a burden with sword. Sure, Mortar Kit and Grenade Kit are a thing, but then you miss out on the exceed skills that come with the new specialization. So I think heat mechanics on other weapons, even if it's only on rifle, is justified.

  • Ardid.7203Ardid.7203 Member ✭✭✭✭

    "Photon Forge no longer puts kits on 6 second forced cool-down. Instead, Photon Forge heat freezes whenever you are on a kit."
    This is what I really would like to see in the patch notes...

  • @Xyonon.3987 said:

    Heya, I'm the guy who creates the Engi Spreadsheets on each patch and worry not, the Forge AA is already 25% stronger than the bomb AA. If they would have kept the PvP values for PvE, we'd have a 32k AA for Raids, which we probably all agree on would be op af. So the current Forge AA may be strong but we won't have a 100% uptime of it and sword AA being slightly lower than bomb AA, i think we're in a pretty good spot right now.

    The Holo Spreadsheets will be aviable within 7 days after PoF release. :)

    Hey how much lower is "slightly lower" by your estimation? Does sword have a longer after cast to account for? just accounting for cast times, sword looks a bit higher but I know cast times are very deceiving.

  • Vagrant.7206Vagrant.7206 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Robert Gee.9246 said:

    @Arimas.3492 said:
    Nice. These are some solid changes. Will core engi be getting any changes in launch update?

    Yes, but mostly just bugfixes.

    Can I ask why heat mechanics were not implemented for other weapons?

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  • guildabd.6529guildabd.6529 Member ✭✭
    edited September 21, 2017

    @Robert Gee.9246 said:
    Yes, but mostly just bugfixes.

    "- Fixed Med kit being kitten."

  • @Vagrant.7206 said:

    @Robert Gee.9246 said:

    @Arimas.3492 said:
    Nice. These are some solid changes. Will core engi be getting any changes in launch update?

    Yes, but mostly just bugfixes.

    Can I ask why heat mechanics were not implemented for other weapons?

    cuz other weapons are not exclusively holosmith weapons

  • @Xyonon.3987 said:

    @Bovan.9481 said:
    Holosmith was definitely too strong in PvP and WvW, but I never got the impression it was too strong in PvE.

    Afaik WvW used the PvE stats, so the lowered version unlike PvP. Tell me if I'm wrong tho ...

    You are correct.

  • What did the community ask for?

    "We want heat mechanics for all our weapons, not just sword!"

    What did we get?

    "Nerfs!"

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