Scourge Specialization Updates for the Path of Fire Launch — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Scourge Specialization Updates for the Path of Fire Launch

Greetings Necromancers,

As the sands of the Crystal Desert beckon several things have changed since the previews of the Scourge elite specialization.

  • Manifest Sand Shade: Reduced duration of shade from 25s to 20s. Reduced target cap from 5 to 3.
  • Nefarious Favor: Increased cost from 15% to 21% base vitality in life force.
  • Garish Pillar: Reduced cost from 50% to 40% of base vitality in life force.
  • Desert Shroud: Increased cost from 40% to 50% of base vitality in life force.
  • Harrowing Wave: Now grants 3% life force per enemy struck.
  • Serpent Siphon: Poison from 1 stack for 3s to 2 stacks for 5s.
  • Sand Swell: Increased duration of portal from 6 to 8 seconds. Increased number of allies that can use it from 10 to 20.
  • Trail of Anguish: Now grants stability in addition to swiftness.
  • Desert Empowerment: Reduced base barrier value and healing scaling granted from this trait by 27%.
  • Sand Savant: Reduced the increased number of targets on Manifest Sand Shade from 5 to 2. (So it now increases it to 5)

The cost of some profession abilities has been changed to better pair with their level of impact and some of the punishment skills received minor buffs to their non-corruption abilities.

Of major note Manifest Sand Shade (F1 by default) has had its target cap reduced to 3 per shade and is increased by the trait Sand Savant to 5 while wielding a greater shade. There are several reasons for this change, including:

• Potential 20 target caps in WvW blew things out. Compare this to 5 target caps on the vast majority of abilities with the rare 10 cap abilities.
• Sand Savant smooths out multi-party teams and offers greater control with an effective 10 target cap (at you and your shade).
• There is an effective 12 target cap if you and your three shades are all active, but it is deliberately not sustainable so you can have a period of increased power at the cost of lessened effectiveness later on.

We expect this change will reward more skilled use of shades while remaining effective area control in the vastness of Elona and beyond.

Hone your magics and command the sands!

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Comments

  • Arimas.3492Arimas.3492 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 21, 2017

    Nevermind my question was answered. Thanks for the information!

  • @Arimas.3492 said:
    Will there be a post like this for all classes? Thanks for the information!

    They're already all up.

    Plague Signet is the only skill in the game that is worse when traited.

  • Kam.4092Kam.4092 Member ✭✭✭

    Well, here's hoping Scourge isn't Reaper 2.0

  • kKagari.6804kKagari.6804 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Wait is the LF cost still a value or a percentage? i.e. scales with higher vitality?

  • I like all of these changes. The ceiling power level was reduced without directly touching any actual damage the class is capable of. On top of that, they gave us some of the Stability we were asking for. I think this is a good step forward, and I'm looking forward to seeing more come out of it with the release.

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  • kKagari.6804kKagari.6804 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:

    @kKagari.6804 said:
    Wait is the LF cost still a value or a percentage? i.e. scales with higher vitality?

    Excellent question!

    Life force costs for Scourge abilities have always been a percentage of your BASE vitality (pre-equipment). Which means that packing on more vitality lets you cast more skills and regain larger absolute values when things die or you use life force generating abilities since you gain life force as a percentage of MAX.

    Thanks for the reply. I made a chart for this in another topic, which in looking to update now. But at zero vitality and without +life force pool, nefarious favour the old cost was roughly 11%. Any chance you can provide the cost on numbers instead while i have your attention? Pretty please! Two days is too much to wait!

  • @Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:

    We expect this change will reward more skilled use of kitten while remaining effective area control in the vastness of Elona and beyond.

    Honing my inner kitten usage! Whatever that means!

  • I'm still not sure what the kitten's have to do with it but what ever ;D
    I admit that target cap was OP and so was Nefarious Favor. I'm very happy with the change to Harrowing Wave and Garish Pillar.
    However i'm skeptical towards the duration reduce on Sand Shades, the cost increase for Desert Shroud and the nerf to Desert Empowerment, the latter of which didn't even seem that great before. Also the buff to Serpent Siphon might not be quite enough while Trail of Anguish with stability might be a bit overtuned, depending on the values of course.

  • I'm sad that the minors weren't looked into at all. I get that they're meant to emphasize the importance of maintaining several shades at once, but to have two minors all about that doesn't seem like it promotes healthy play styles.

    To clarify, this means that in PvE bosses, if you want demonic lore for max damage, you will be trying to keep up two or three shades at once, despite the fact that only one of them will be doing anything. In PvP, this means that players will just tunnel into sand savant in order to easily maintain that juicy 45% damage reduction.

  • Exedore.6320Exedore.6320 Member ✭✭✭

    Was Demonic Lore fixed? During demo, if an ability applied multiple torment stacks at once, this trait would apply multiple burning stacks. Scepter #3 would destroy things.

  • @Kam.4092 said:

    @Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:
    Greetings Necromancers,

    As the sands of the Crystal Desert beckon several things have changed since the previews of the Scourge elite specialization.

    • Manifest Sand Shade: Reduced duration of shade from 25s to 20s. Reduced target cap from 5 to 3.
    • Nefarious Favor: Increased cost from 15% to 21% base vitality in life force.
    • Garish Pillar: Reduced cost from 50% to 40% of base vitality in life force.
    • Desert Shroud: Increased cost from 40% to 50% of base vitality in life force.
    • Harrowing Wave: Now grants 3% life force per enemy struck.
    • Serpent Siphon: Poison from 1 stack for 3s to 2 stacks for 5s.
    • Sand Swell: Increased duration of portal from 6 to 8 seconds. Increased number of allies that can use it from 10 to 20.
    • Trail of Anguish: Now grants stability in addition to swiftness.
    • Desert Empowerment: Reduced base barrier value and healing scaling granted from this trait by 27%.
    • Sand Savant: Reduced the increased number of targets on Manifest Sand Shade from 5 to 2. (So it now increases it to 5)

    The cost of some profession abilities has been changed to better pair with their level of impact and some of the punishment skills received minor buffs to their non-corruption abilities.

    Of major note Manifest Sand Shade (F1 by default) has had its target cap reduced to 3 per shade and is increased by the trait Sand Savant to 5 while wielding a greater shade. There are several reasons for this change, including:

    • Potential 20 target caps in WvW blew things out. Compare this to 5 target caps on the vast majority of abilities with the rare 10 cap abilities.
    • Sand Savant smooths out multi-party teams and offers greater control with an effective 10 target cap (at you and your shade).
    • There is an effective 12 target cap if you and your three kitten are all active, but it is deliberately not sustainable so you can have a period of increased power at the cost of lessened effectiveness later on.

    We expect this change will reward more skilled use of kitten while remaining effective area control in the vastness of Elona and beyond.

    Hone your magics and command the sands!

    Will we be getting base Necro changes too? Also have you all read the adding a Condition to Mainhand Dagger auto attack thread?

    "*Scourge Specialization Updates for the Path of Fire Launch"

    A City of Heroes never die... A City of Villains will never surrender... Neither City will be forgotten.

  • Kam.4092Kam.4092 Member ✭✭✭

    @HardRider.2980 said:

    @Kam.4092 said:

    @Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:
    Greetings Necromancers,

    As the sands of the Crystal Desert beckon several things have changed since the previews of the Scourge elite specialization.

    • Manifest Sand Shade: Reduced duration of shade from 25s to 20s. Reduced target cap from 5 to 3.
    • Nefarious Favor: Increased cost from 15% to 21% base vitality in life force.
    • Garish Pillar: Reduced cost from 50% to 40% of base vitality in life force.
    • Desert Shroud: Increased cost from 40% to 50% of base vitality in life force.
    • Harrowing Wave: Now grants 3% life force per enemy struck.
    • Serpent Siphon: Poison from 1 stack for 3s to 2 stacks for 5s.
    • Sand Swell: Increased duration of portal from 6 to 8 seconds. Increased number of allies that can use it from 10 to 20.
    • Trail of Anguish: Now grants stability in addition to swiftness.
    • Desert Empowerment: Reduced base barrier value and healing scaling granted from this trait by 27%.
    • Sand Savant: Reduced the increased number of targets on Manifest Sand Shade from 5 to 2. (So it now increases it to 5)

    The cost of some profession abilities has been changed to better pair with their level of impact and some of the punishment skills received minor buffs to their non-corruption abilities.

    Of major note Manifest Sand Shade (F1 by default) has had its target cap reduced to 3 per shade and is increased by the trait Sand Savant to 5 while wielding a greater shade. There are several reasons for this change, including:

    • Potential 20 target caps in WvW blew things out. Compare this to 5 target caps on the vast majority of abilities with the rare 10 cap abilities.
    • Sand Savant smooths out multi-party teams and offers greater control with an effective 10 target cap (at you and your shade).
    • There is an effective 12 target cap if you and your three kitten are all active, but it is deliberately not sustainable so you can have a period of increased power at the cost of lessened effectiveness later on.

    We expect this change will reward more skilled use of kitten while remaining effective area control in the vastness of Elona and beyond.

    Hone your magics and command the sands!

    Will we be getting base Necro changes too? Also have you all read the adding a Condition to Mainhand Dagger auto attack thread?

    "*Scourge Specialization Updates for the Path of Fire Launch"

    Other Professions got word of core changes.

  • Kam.4092Kam.4092 Member ✭✭✭

    @Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

    @Kam.4092 said:
    Was hyped, now I'm like ":/"

    Yeah, now I'm like "well, I'll unlock it because I have nothing else to do with my hero points."

    Guess Necro is supposed to be purely a WvW zerging profession.

    I'm used to playing a nonmeta profession. I love Necro, so I'll still Main it. It's just whatever.

  • "> @Oldirtbeard.9834 said:

    I'm sorry you guys got nerfed, this is why I decided to stay a Power Reaper since there's only one direction to go which is up." This is the truth, so happy i didn't bother chasing hero points or retooling gear for scourge.

  • Esprit Dumort.3109Esprit Dumort.3109 Member ✭✭
    edited September 21, 2017

    As said, I will see how it plays before I judge too much. I'm hoping that these changes still allow for a viable WvW Scourge build.

    Edit: I want to add that each class will have growing pains, similar to HoT, so it might take a balance or two before everything gets ironed out.

  • I think this was a good change. I have stated many times over the last few weeks that a 15-20 target cap just means 20 Reapers will hit 20 people 20 times on each F ability. There would be no reason to have anyone else in your squad except for scourge. The large Sand Savant should be the default, and the small Savant should be the GM trait. It is perfectly positioned now for you to fix this. You will need to lower the default cooldown on F1 (don't forget that if you make this change). Otherwise you are essentially tied into picking the 360 over the 180 every time, and the other GM traits are a waste. Reaper has like 2 builds currently and the other traits would be great if Deathly Chill wasn't required. So please allow there to be some diversity in builds. If DPS Scourge wants to run the smaller Shades so he can provide more barrier to a larger group he can select the smaller shades. If WvW scourge should be able to select one of the other GM traits for gaining boons or more condi dmg based on his build. This would make Scourge much more competitive across the board. Another option would be to make the 3 target shade a 240 radius shade, thus making it viable but with the cooldown issue you describe. As it is now a 180 radius ability takes minimal effort to avoid / dodge out of and will likely only ever hit 1 target that is not paying attention.

  • Kam.4092Kam.4092 Member ✭✭✭

    @maxwelgm.4315 said:
    All in all this is not the end of the world, but boy is it funny to see relevant bug fixes and plenty of buffs in every other post while Necro is the one getting nerfed as usual!

    I love being the neglected child in a big family.

  • kKagari.6804kKagari.6804 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I think the changes are OK, in terms of PvP.

  • Kam.4092Kam.4092 Member ✭✭✭

    @Recursivision.2367 said:
    There was no way this wasn't going to be the outcome at some point or another. It was completely broken for WvW. Not sure how it even made it this far. That being said, I was looking forward to being able to abuse it for a few weeks... ah well! Should still be strong, and likely a necessary component for WvW.

    To those complaining about WvW balance bleeding into PvE... how often do you actually need to hit 5-10+ targets? I don't think it's really a huge factor, but my PvE is weak.

    I'm most upset about the Duration nerf.

  • Crinn.7864Crinn.7864 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:

    @kKagari.6804 said:
    Wait is the LF cost still a value or a percentage? i.e. scales with higher vitality?

    Excellent question!

    Life force costs for Scourge abilities have always been a percentage of your BASE vitality (pre-equipment). Which means that packing on more vitality lets you cast more skills and regain larger absolute values when things die or you use life force generating abilities since you gain life force as a percentage of MAX.

    Which really needs to be changed because it pigeon-holes the entire class into stacking vitality all the time in PvP despite the fact that we lack the self-healing to sustain our massive health pool.

    Scourge ought to be running toughness in PvP because it's far better in terms of synergy with how the class works. Yet Scourge is stuck stacking vitality in order to mitigate how unmanageable our resource is.
    Please fix this

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  • Drarnor Kunoram.5180Drarnor Kunoram.5180 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 21, 2017

    @Recursivision.2367 said:
    There was no way this wasn't going to be the outcome at some point or another. It was completely broken for WvW. Not sure how it even made it this far. That being said, I was looking forward to being able to abuse it for a few weeks... ah well! Should still be strong, and likely a necessary component for WvW.

    To those complaining about WvW balance bleeding into PvE... how often do you actually need to hit 5-10+ targets? I don't think it's really a huge factor, but my PvE is weak.

    It's more along the lines of the friendly targets. Now, to throw up a raid-wide barrier or cleanse a condition in the same way, you need all three Shades up. This on top of the shorter lifespan (but cooldown is still 15 seconds per) means Necro support in raids is entirely ignorable.

    Plague Signet is the only skill in the game that is worse when traited.

  • MithranArkanere.8957MithranArkanere.8957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 21, 2017

    @Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:
    [....]
    • There is an effective 12 target cap if you and your three kitten are all active, but it is deliberately not sustainable so you can have a period of increased power at the cost of lessened effectiveness later on.

    We expect this change will reward more skilled use of kitten while remaining effective area control in the vastness of Elona and beyond.

    What are the kittens being censored?

  • kKagari.6804kKagari.6804 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The plural of shade.

  • kKagari.6804kKagari.6804 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Robert Gee.9246 said:

    @Kam.4092 said:
    Other Professions got word of core changes.

    All professions have a few core changes that will be in the update notes on the 22nd. The team was mostly focused on making adjustments from demo feedback so it's a fairly limited set of changes and mostly consist of bugfixes and QoL stuff (though there are a few balance adjustments). We will not be posting those changes here since these threads are only for PoF elite specialization changes.

    Can we have the word on whether deathly chill will change? Just a yes or no answer? pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

  • In what context could that possibly be a questionable word? I've only ever heard them in slang when referring to sunglasses. This is very confusing.

  • Kam.4092Kam.4092 Member ✭✭✭

    @kKagari.6804 said:

    @Robert Gee.9246 said:

    @Kam.4092 said:
    Other Professions got word of core changes.

    All professions have a few core changes that will be in the update notes on the 22nd. The team was mostly focused on making adjustments from demo feedback so it's a fairly limited set of changes and mostly consist of bugfixes and QoL stuff (though there are a few balance adjustments). We will not be posting those changes here since these threads are only for PoF elite specialization changes.

    Can we have the word on whether deathly chill will change? Just a yes or no answer? pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

    This please.

  • i dont like the nerfs at all, im calling the police. at least make the target cap wvw/pvp only
    also huge feeback was about barriers degenerating too soon and too fast, nothing was done about this?! why should i sacrifice 50% of life force for a barrier that fades out immediately if i can just enter shroud on other specialisation and have 100% life force degenerating slowly? thats not a good deal. to me the entire scourge specialisation is just a nerf to the core class instead of a buff.

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  • IMO with regards to sPvP, With the additional Shade Life Force cost coupled with the reduction in their effectiveness, I believe that Unending Corruption should now be Unblockable for better synergy with Nourishing Rot, since this would affect Manifest Sand Shade only and not the subsequent F2 - F5 skills. A few of those subsequent F skills already have a pretty significant Life Force cost, with only Corrupt Boon being the best candidate for use with Nourishing Rot. With this change, you may have to give Unending Corruption+Nourishing Rot the same kind of treatment you just gave to Manifest Sand Shade+Sand Savant. But right now, Scourge is going to have a problem with Life Force without reliable means for burst regeneration where deaths are few and far in-between.

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