Renegade Specialization Updates for the Path of Fire Launch - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums
Home Professions Revenant

Renegade Specialization Updates for the Path of Fire Launch

2

Comments

  • The issue with profession mechanics on renegade is that they compete for same resource with weapon and utility skills!
    No other profession does that! Profession skills are meant to enhance the gameplay and be gated with their own, specific mechanics (such as cooldowns or it's own resource pool).

    Else yes, you do offer more options but you do not make gameplay richer, as at the end of the day cost-return scenario kicks in and either you end up ignoring F skill completely, or using it always at expense of many others given it's energy cost.

    Much smarter choice would be to for example have F2-F4 skills prevent generation of new Kalla's Fervor stacks for a while. Then you can use them for burst scenarios with no new kalla's fervor after-effect. That's a choice. In case of energy cost you can't speak of burst as using Citadel Bombardment for example will gut your options to use other damaging skills and the results stays roughtly the same - continual damage instead of all-out scenario.

  • ZeftheWicked.3076ZeftheWicked.3076 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 21, 2017

    @Bramley.1943 said:
    I love these updates, just a quick design question.. Why does Icerazor's Ire do vulnerability damage and not chilling. The name ICE Razor... CHILLING damaged. It MUST of been planned at once stage- Was this overpowered so changed. Just wondering if there is a reason for this weird lack of skill names matching the skill? (I hope I explained this question okay)

    They are probs afraid of it getting way outta hand with "chilled to torment stacks" trait.
    Also applying 20 stacks of chill in a short time, while max stacks cap is 5 is bit...flimsy to say the least.

  • Jthug.9506Jthug.9506 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 21, 2017

    @sleight.9638 said:
    Has the Blood Fury bug been fixed, that prevented it from granting the Bleeding Duration Bonus?

    Great question, +1

  • Jthug.9506Jthug.9506 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 21, 2017

    @messiah.1908 said:
    does the vigor bug with brutal momentum fix?

    FTFY for clarity:
    Has the brutal momentum bug where increased critical chance was being inconsistently applied while at full endurance been fixed?

    Great question, +1

  • Jthug.9506Jthug.9506 Member ✭✭✭

    @LucianDK.8615 said:

    @Klypto.1703 said:
    I really like the changes the only potential problem I see is there is no swiftness available with any of the skills or traits. I guess the only problem will either be to choose innvocation for the small amount of swiftness or using speed sigil or traveller runes. Other than that looks excellent especially some condition management besides mallyx :D

    Mounts should fix the worries about lack of swiftness, as they are 100% increased movement speed.

    Overall good changes, though I have to agree that the Fskills seems way too costly still for what they do. Especially when considering that condi revenants usually rely on channeling their elites, then swapping legends. And the energy degen on soulceave is extreme at -9 pips.

    But perhaps Soulcleave is only meant to be situational? It would be good with a dev perspective on how they envision renegade to be played. Currently as it stands, most are only taking it for a shortbow swap to have a ranged condi wep and maybe using a spirit or two before having to swap legends while ignoring the costly Fskills. Especially when adding shortbow energy costs ontop on an already energy starved revenant.

    Also, could we get the message when out of energy changed? It says out of proffession specific energy. Why? just say Revenant energy, muchly jarring with that large message popping constantly.

    I would think that for condi you would go with Razorclaw and CB to burn energy while you wait to swap back to Mallyx, for a power build doing pve I would think you would use soulcleave and impossible odds on swap, for optimal rotations... I'm sure the community will figure out the optimal rotations for different specs within a week or two.

  • @Bramley.1943 said:
    I love these updates, just a quick design question.. Why does Icerazor's Ire do vulnerability damage and not chilling. The name ICE Razor... CHILLING damaged. It MUST of been planned at once stage- Was this overpowered so changed. Just wondering if there is a reason for this weird lack of skill names matching the skill? (I hope I explained this question okay)

    I Have a feeling that they wont do this due to the number of projectiles that Icerazor fires and the synergy with Abyssal Chill would easily stack too many stacks of damaging conditions to a single target. That's probably why they wont add the chill effect, though I do think that the first projectile he fires should be a chilling one, and the rest cripple. this would force some people to dodge or take a face full of the projectiles (which should hurt with the damage buff) so the chill would help counter their endurance regen and burn a dodge / condi cleanse out of them.

  • Looks better, but and apologies if it has been mentioned already.

    Shortbow auto attack really need to apply torment rather than bleed, it would improve the synergy with other traits and just have a better 'revenant feel' about it.

    I really dislike that we all of a sudden apply bleed when it's not been part of anything before.

  • Thank you for this update. Sounds like the energy rebalance will help the flow a lot. I can't wait to play my Ritualist! Oh wait... I mean Renegade! ;-)

  • It's not enough. All of the function skills are still too expensive for what they do. The utilities still are still too expensive for what they do. You didn't buff the shortbow, you just exchanged the negligible energy costs on the weapon for an increase in recharge time.

    "Self awareness is knowing when you're sitting at the throne of ignorance." --Leo G.

  • These small reductions to energy costs are only delaying the inevitable. You NEED to do an energy rework.

    1. Make the default out-of-combat energy stay at 100% instead of 50%.
    2. Remove energy costs from weapon skills.
    3. Add traits that either increase the size of the energy pool, rate of energy generation, or decrease the rate of energy expenditure on toggle skills.
  • Jthug.9506Jthug.9506 Member ✭✭✭

    @Cross Tobias.2680 said:

    @Bramley.1943 said:
    I love these updates, just a quick design question.. Why does Icerazor's Ire do vulnerability damage and not chilling. The name ICE Razor... CHILLING damaged. It MUST of been planned at once stage- Was this overpowered so changed. Just wondering if there is a reason for this weird lack of skill names matching the skill? (I hope I explained this question okay)

    I Have a feeling that they wont do this due to the number of projectiles that Icerazor fires and the synergy with Abyssal Chill would easily stack too many stacks of damaging conditions to a single target. That's probably why they wont add the chill effect, though I do think that the first projectile he fires should be a chilling one, and the rest cripple. this would force some people to dodge or take a face full of the projectiles (which should hurt with the damage buff) so the chill would help counter their endurance regen and burn a dodge / condi cleanse out of them.

    They could maybe just give him the same effect as the sigil of hydromancy.

  • I still think and feel that Renegade is lackluster.
    Also, without Glint/Herald, the rest of the Revenant core class feels underpowered and lacking in synergy.

  • @LoreChief.8391 said:
    These small reductions to energy costs are only delaying the inevitable. You NEED to do an energy rework.

    1. Make the default out-of-combat energy stay at 100% instead of 50%.
    2. Remove energy costs from weapon skills.
    3. Add traits that either increase the size of the energy pool, rate of energy generation, or decrease the rate of energy expenditure on toggle skills.

    Anet is intentionally avoiding nº3, as those traits would be mandatory. I also disagree with the popular opinion of removing energy costs from weapons, as that wouldn't fix the core problem, it would simply make energy management pointless. Having energy be at 100% instead of 50%, or decreasing (but not removing) the cost across all skills, seem like more interesting solutions to me.

  • Kidel.2057Kidel.2057 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 21, 2017

    Am I wrong or Razorclaw's Rage has been nerfed and hidden behind an ambiguous phrasing of the note? Now it allows allies to apply 50 max stacks of bleeding total, while it had no such limit before.

    So basically still high energy costs instead of huge energy costs + a nerf + a fix on the absurd stun break on healing. Nice.

  • messiah.1908messiah.1908 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kidel.2057 said:
    Am I wrong or Razorclaw's Rage has been nerfed and hidden behind an ambiguous phrasing of the note? Now it allows allies to apply 50 max stacks of bleeding total, while it had no such limit before.

    So basically still high energy costs instead of huge energy costs + a nerf + a fix on the absurd stun break on healing. Nice.

    its stop stacking if target hits over 50 stacks of bleeding . basically each player can do 10 stack of bleeding before the change as the skill timer is 10 sec with 1 sec interval. with 5 allies its 50 stacks. i think maybe with 2 renegade using this skill at the same time ti cap is 50 bleed or else you could stack 100

  • Kidel.2057Kidel.2057 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 21, 2017

    What's the advantage of having energy on Kalla? Every skill has its own cooldown, energy on Kalla is completely irrelevant. It just prevents from using skills when they are off cd.

    "Oh look, an enemy has stunned me during an upkeep, I'll just use Darkrazor's Daring to stunbreak"
    Not enough profession-specific energy. Of course since it's 30 energy cost.

    Please Irenio, acknowledge the fact that we basically have 50 energy, since you never reach 100 in a real fight unless you stop using skills for 5 seconds.

    Also all the skills that are too powerful to be spammed have high energy costs and no cd. If the energy cost is high you don't need to add cds. And vice-versa.

  • Kidel.2057Kidel.2057 Member ✭✭✭

    @messiah.1908 said:

    @Kidel.2057 said:
    Am I wrong or Razorclaw's Rage has been nerfed and hidden behind an ambiguous phrasing of the note? Now it allows allies to apply 50 max stacks of bleeding total, while it had no such limit before.

    So basically still high energy costs instead of huge energy costs + a nerf + a fix on the absurd stun break on healing. Nice.

    its stop stacking if target hits over 50 stacks of bleeding . basically each player can do 10 stack of bleeding before the change as the skill timer is 10 sec with 1 sec interval. with 5 allies its 50 stacks. i think maybe with 2 renegade using this skill at the same time ti cap is 50 bleed or else you could stack 100

    So having 2 renegades is useless. Yay even harder to find a group

  • messiah.1908messiah.1908 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kidel.2057 said:

    @messiah.1908 said:

    @Kidel.2057 said:
    Am I wrong or Razorclaw's Rage has been nerfed and hidden behind an ambiguous phrasing of the note? Now it allows allies to apply 50 max stacks of bleeding total, while it had no such limit before.

    So basically still high energy costs instead of huge energy costs + a nerf + a fix on the absurd stun break on healing. Nice.

    its stop stacking if target hits over 50 stacks of bleeding . basically each player can do 10 stack of bleeding before the change as the skill timer is 10 sec with 1 sec interval. with 5 allies its 50 stacks. i think maybe with 2 renegade using this skill at the same time ti cap is 50 bleed or else you could stack 100

    So having 2 renegades is useless. Yay even harder to find a group

    not at all as you can rotate skills. you put vulnerability while the other puts bleed

  • @Kidel.2057 said:
    Am I wrong or Razorclaw's Rage has been nerfed and hidden behind an ambiguous phrasing of the note? Now it allows allies to apply 50 max stacks of bleeding total, while it had no such limit before.

    It was utterly broken before. What it used to do was apply a bleed on every single hit for the people effected. Getting 200+ stacks of bleeding in a raid setting per cast really wasn't that unheard of. Even attacks that hit multiple targets would apply a bleed to every target hit, and that for every person effected by the spirit. You could tag entire enemy zergs by just putting down the spirit in WvW. The duration of those bleeds weren't all that long to be fair, but when I did some calculations it still did an absurd amount of damage for the cooldown and energy cost.

    It's still a very good skill, but now we're looking at 45-ish stacks of bleeding. Much more reasonable.

  • Euthymias.7984Euthymias.7984 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 21, 2017

    Not sure if its been said anywhere, but Short Bow needs a bit more utility on the movement side.
    Its just damage, damage, more damage, did you ask for damage (with slow), and a knockdown.
    Couldn't Sevenshot/Bloodbane at least be an evade while firing? You'll need some form of movement with a skirmishing weapon like a Shortbow since you wont have the safety of 1.2k range.

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Euthymias.7984 said:
    Not sure if its been said anywhere, but Short Bow needs a bit more utility on the movement side.
    Its just damage, damage, more damage, did you ask for damage (with slow), and a knockdown.
    Couldn't Sevenshot/Bloodbane at least be an evade while firing? You'll need some form of movement with a skirmishing weapon like a Shortbow since you wont have the safety of 1.2k range.

    It was mentioned before that neither SB or Renegade provide any mobility, evades and blocks. Not even swiftness. There has been no response at all in that regard.

    @messiah.1908 said:

    @Kidel.2057 said:

    @messiah.1908 said:

    @Kidel.2057 said:
    Am I wrong or Razorclaw's Rage has been nerfed and hidden behind an ambiguous phrasing of the note? Now it allows allies to apply 50 max stacks of bleeding total, while it had no such limit before.

    So basically still high energy costs instead of huge energy costs + a nerf + a fix on the absurd stun break on healing. Nice.

    its stop stacking if target hits over 50 stacks of bleeding . basically each player can do 10 stack of bleeding before the change as the skill timer is 10 sec with 1 sec interval. with 5 allies its 50 stacks. i think maybe with 2 renegade using this skill at the same time ti cap is 50 bleed or else you could stack 100

    So having 2 renegades is useless. Yay even harder to find a group

    not at all as you can rotate skills. you put vulnerability while the other puts bleed

    Or neither? Outside of the CC break why would you every waste you energy outside soul cleave? It out dpses both utilities and provide sustainability as well.

  • is shortbow rev good with condi or power?

  • @EnidLarr.1478 said:
    is shortbow rev good with condi or power?

    It just isnt all that good.
    Mace/Axe seems more likely to generate the bulk of your condi damage while SB would be something to keep some condi pressure going when you can't be in Melee range.

  • @Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:

    • Razorclaw's Rage: Added a removal limiter on the unique buff to prevent it from blowing out. Now has a maximum grant of 50 stacks of bleeding over 10 seconds if affecting 5 allies.

    So 10 stacks bleeding per ally?

  • @DiogoSilva.7089 said:

    @LoreChief.8391 said:
    These small reductions to energy costs are only delaying the inevitable. You NEED to do an energy rework.

    1. Make the default out-of-combat energy stay at 100% instead of 50%.
    2. Remove energy costs from weapon skills.
    3. Add traits that either increase the size of the energy pool, rate of energy generation, or decrease the rate of energy expenditure on toggle skills.

    Anet is intentionally avoiding nº3, as those traits would be mandatory. I also disagree with the popular opinion of removing energy costs from weapons, as that wouldn't fix the core problem, it would simply make energy management pointless. Having energy be at 100% instead of 50%, or decreasing (but not removing) the cost across all skills, seem like more interesting solutions to me.

    Having energy be at 100% when legend swapping, and not having energy drop back to 50% when going out of combat might help. I always am bothered when I conserve energy to get to 100% and run to the next foe only to be out of combat for just a moment before engaging that next foe and losing the top half of my energy bar.

  • @guildabd.6529 said:

    @Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:

    • Razorclaw's Rage: Added a removal limiter on the unique buff to prevent it from blowing out. Now has a maximum grant of 50 stacks of bleeding over 10 seconds if affecting 5 allies.

    So 10 stacks bleeding per ally?

    That appears to be the case. Also, I believe the Devspeak regarding the "removal limiter" means that the buff which applies the bleed won't be removed if your ally attacks while the buff is on its internal cd. Otherwise, an ally could "blow out" all their stacks without actually applying the bleeds.
    I am curious to know if the stacks will be removed when an attack is blocked/evaded, however. My assumption is that it will.

  • I am glad that they removed the BS from the heal and the reduced energy cost, but I think it's not enough, I feel like I have to choose between to use a Weapon Skill, Citadel Order Skills or Utility Skills because of the high cost. I really expected more EliteSpec changes and more Rev Core changes... I'm not sure to buy the expansion...

  • Zenith.7301Zenith.7301 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @messiah.1908 said:

    @Kidel.2057 said:

    @messiah.1908 said:

    @Kidel.2057 said:
    Am I wrong or Razorclaw's Rage has been nerfed and hidden behind an ambiguous phrasing of the note? Now it allows allies to apply 50 max stacks of bleeding total, while it had no such limit before.

    So basically still high energy costs instead of huge energy costs + a nerf + a fix on the absurd stun break on healing. Nice.

    its stop stacking if target hits over 50 stacks of bleeding . basically each player can do 10 stack of bleeding before the change as the skill timer is 10 sec with 1 sec interval. with 5 allies its 50 stacks. i think maybe with 2 renegade using this skill at the same time ti cap is 50 bleed or else you could stack 100

    So having 2 renegades is useless. Yay even harder to find a group

    not at all as you can rotate skills. you put vulnerability while the other puts bleed

    lol who needs vulnerability in a raid? It's passively capped just by class autoattacks. Chrono alone can maintain 12 stacks and power daredevil closes that.

  • Jthug.9506Jthug.9506 Member ✭✭✭

    @guildabd.6529 said:

    @Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:

    • Razorclaw's Rage: Added a removal limiter on the unique buff to prevent it from blowing out. Now has a maximum grant of 50 stacks of bleeding over 10 seconds if affecting 5 allies.

    So 10 stacks bleeding per ally?

    yup

  • Jthug.9506Jthug.9506 Member ✭✭✭

    @Orion Templar.4589 said:

    @DiogoSilva.7089 said:

    @LoreChief.8391 said:
    These small reductions to energy costs are only delaying the inevitable. You NEED to do an energy rework.

    1. Make the default out-of-combat energy stay at 100% instead of 50%.
    2. Remove energy costs from weapon skills.
    3. Add traits that either increase the size of the energy pool, rate of energy generation, or decrease the rate of energy expenditure on toggle skills.

    Anet is intentionally avoiding nº3, as those traits would be mandatory. I also disagree with the popular opinion of removing energy costs from weapons, as that wouldn't fix the core problem, it would simply make energy management pointless. Having energy be at 100% instead of 50%, or decreasing (but not removing) the cost across all skills, seem like more interesting solutions to me.

    Having energy be at 100% when legend swapping, and not having energy drop back to 50% when going out of combat might help. I always am bothered when I conserve energy to get to 100% and run to the next foe only to be out of combat for just a moment before engaging that next foe and losing the top half of my energy bar.

    To this end, if you are low on health and go out of combat for a split second does your health instantly go back to full? NO So it stands to reason that energy should drop to 50% at the about same rate as heath is replenished out of combat.

  • Nice changes. If I had OCD, those non-multiple of 5 energy costs would bother me though.

  • Did a few sums to quantify my suspicion that the energy costs for the citadel order skills are still way too high for the condition DPS support role this class was marketed on.

    Kalla, Mallyx and Jalis (the three legends available for the Renegade that best support this role) all have a powerful upkeep skill that provides the backbone of the Revenant's offence; QTFY recommends maintaining 100% uptime for the Mallyx and Jalis buffs, and to me the Kalla buff looks so strong that not maintaining 100% uptime on that would be a massive loss in group DPS. Doing the energy sums if the Revenant is staying in each legend for exactly 10 seconds in order to maximise energy then that gives the Renegade 100-10-90=0 energy for Kalla and 100-5-70=25 energy for Mallyx/Jalis to spare on weapon skills/utilities/citadel orders. This means that the Renegade cannot afford to cast any Citadel Order skills whilst using its elite spec legend, and cannot afford to cast its condi DPS Citadel Bombardment order skill in conjunction with either of its condi DPS legends. Moreover casting any other citadel order when using Kalla/Jalis legends will limit you to autoattacking, making them a net loss to group damage unless your DPS is abysmal and the DPS of your allies is insane. This state of affairs is... not ideal.

    I'll give some points for the shortbow and spirit changes, but I feel these citadel orders need another rethink. And I'd recommend slashing the cost of Soulcleave down at least to 75 if you'd like any freedom in the Renegade DPS rotation for the Kalla legend.

  • Jthug.9506Jthug.9506 Member ✭✭✭

    @Professor Sprout.1560 said:
    Did a few sums to quantify my suspicion that the energy costs for the citadel order skills are still way too high for the condition DPS support role this class was marketed on.

    Kalla, Mallyx and Jalis (the three legends available for the Renegade that best support this role) all have a powerful upkeep skill that provides the backbone of the Revenant's offence; QTFY recommends maintaining 100% uptime for the Mallyx and Jalis buffs, and to me the Kalla buff looks so strong that not maintaining 100% uptime on that would be a massive loss in group DPS. Doing the energy sums if the Revenant is staying in each legend for exactly 10 seconds in order to maximise energy then that gives the Renegade 100-10-90=0 energy for Kalla and 100-5-70=25 energy for Mallyx/Jalis to spare on weapon skills/utilities/citadel orders. This means that the Renegade cannot afford to cast any Citadel Order skills whilst using its elite spec legend, and cannot afford to cast its condi DPS Citadel Bombardment order skill in conjunction with either of its condi DPS legends. Moreover casting any other citadel order when using Kalla/Jalis legends will limit you to autoattacking, making them a net loss to group damage unless your DPS is abysmal and the DPS of your allies is insane. This state of affairs is... not ideal.

    I'll give some points for the shortbow and spirit changes, but I feel these citadel orders need another rethink. And I'd recommend slashing the cost of Soulcleave down at least to 75 if you'd like any freedom in the Renegade DPS rotation for the Kalla legend.

    Citidel orders probably only makes sense for a Ventari rev setup. My guess on proper condition rotation is to start on Kalla drop bombardment, auto till you can drop the bleed summon, go mallyx, use elite use mace axe 2,3,5 on cd till you swap back to Kalla, drop bleed summon, auto till co, use a few mace skills, drop bleed summon when mallyx is almost ready and switch to mallyx etc.

  • Professor Sprout.1560Professor Sprout.1560 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 22, 2017

    @Jthug.9506 said:

    @Professor Sprout.1560 said:
    Did a few sums to quantify my suspicion that the energy costs for the citadel order skills are still way too high for the condition DPS support role this class was marketed on.

    Kalla, Mallyx and Jalis (the three legends available for the Renegade that best support this role) all have a powerful upkeep skill that provides the backbone of the Revenant's offence; QTFY recommends maintaining 100% uptime for the Mallyx and Jalis buffs, and to me the Kalla buff looks so strong that not maintaining 100% uptime on that would be a massive loss in group DPS. Doing the energy sums if the Revenant is staying in each legend for exactly 10 seconds in order to maximise energy then that gives the Renegade 100-10-90=0 energy for Kalla and 100-5-70=25 energy for Mallyx/Jalis to spare on weapon skills/utilities/citadel orders. This means that the Renegade cannot afford to cast any Citadel Order skills whilst using its elite spec legend, and cannot afford to cast its condi DPS Citadel Bombardment order skill in conjunction with either of its condi DPS legends. Moreover casting any other citadel order when using Kalla/Jalis legends will limit you to autoattacking, making them a net loss to group damage unless your DPS is abysmal and the DPS of your allies is insane. This state of affairs is... not ideal.

    I'll give some points for the shortbow and spirit changes, but I feel these citadel orders need another rethink. And I'd recommend slashing the cost of Soulcleave down at least to 75 if you'd like any freedom in the Renegade DPS rotation for the Kalla legend.

    Citidel orders probably only makes sense for a Ventari rev setup. My guess on proper condition rotation is to start on Kalla drop bombardment, auto till you can drop the bleed summon, go mallyx, use elite use mace axe 2,3,5 on cd till you swap back to Kalla, drop bleed summon, auto till co, use a few mace skills, drop bleed summon when mallyx is almost ready and switch to mallyx etc.

    I think that Soulcleave is going to do significantly more damage per second unless nerfed than Razorclaw as it had no ICD during the beta. Most classes hit more than once per second (especially with quickness) making it a stronger buff, especially for certain attacks such as Mad King Runes or Jalis hammers.

  • Thank you for the timely efficient and thoughtful revisions anet, i cannot wait to play PoF and it feels like you guys are working harder than ever. It is super appreciated!

  • aimz.6287aimz.6287 Member ✭✭✭

    FOR EVERYONE SAYING THAT THE BLEEDS ISNT GOOD IS STUPID LOL, First thing is first, 50 stacks of bleed WILL ALWAYS happen you will always have 50 stacks, people hit 10 attacks at least every 10 secs easily 50 will stack condi warrior stacks 30 bleeds for 10k imagine 20 more bleeds.... ur gonna be doing like 15-18k bleeds guys.... stop complaining use ur Brain.... renegade REVENANTs dmg will be amazing in pve really really good. Now imagine 15k torment 12k burning 15k bleeds 4K poison 46k JUST CONDITIONS and revenants power dmg is also really impressive the dmg will be impressive all u haters will see you guys just don't open up ur mind

  • Milan.9035Milan.9035 Member ✭✭✭

    @aimz.6287 said:
    FOR EVERYONE SAYING THAT THE BLEEDS ISNT GOOD IS STUPID LOL, First thing is first, 50 stacks of bleed WILL ALWAYS happen you will always have 50 stacks, people hit 10 attacks at least every 10 secs easily 50 will stack condi warrior stacks 30 bleeds for 10k imagine 20 more bleeds.... ur gonna be doing like 15-18k bleeds guys.... stop complaining use ur Brain.... renegade REVENANTs dmg will be amazing in pve really really good. Now imagine 15k torment 12k burning 15k bleeds 4K poison 46k JUST CONDITIONS and revenants power dmg is also really impressive the dmg will be impressive all u haters will see you guys just don't open up ur mind

    I really dont think anyone is complaining about renegade damage in raids. Its the play style.

    Also it's next to useless in wvw and pvp. Like is it really hard to make some simple changes to the class right now to make it viable for pvp?

    Example:

    Trow an addition to a trait anywhere making when you summon a spirit you clear one or two condies

    Trow a mobility on short bow. I dont know make it when you do 7 shot it teleports you to their end location or something. Maybe not good idea but you get it.

  • Jthug.9506Jthug.9506 Member ✭✭✭

    @aimz.6287 said:
    FOR EVERYONE SAYING THAT THE BLEEDS ISNT GOOD IS STUPID LOL, First thing is first, 50 stacks of bleed WILL ALWAYS happen you will always have 50 stacks, people hit 10 attacks at least every 10 secs easily 50 will stack condi warrior stacks 30 bleeds for 10k imagine 20 more bleeds.... ur gonna be doing like 15-18k bleeds guys.... stop complaining use ur Brain.... renegade REVENANTs dmg will be amazing in pve really really good. Now imagine 15k torment 12k burning 15k bleeds 4K poison 46k JUST CONDITIONS and revenants power dmg is also really impressive the dmg will be impressive all u haters will see you guys just don't open up ur mind

    @aimz.6287 said:
    FOR EVERYONE SAYING THAT THE BLEEDS ISNT GOOD IS STUPID LOL, First thing is first, 50 stacks of bleed WILL ALWAYS happen you will always have 50 stacks, people hit 10 attacks at least every 10 secs easily 50 will stack condi warrior stacks 30 bleeds for 10k imagine 20 more bleeds.... ur gonna be doing like 15-18k bleeds guys.... stop complaining use ur Brain.... renegade REVENANTs dmg will be amazing in pve really really good. Now imagine 15k torment 12k burning 15k bleeds 4K poison 46k JUST CONDITIONS and revenants power dmg is also really impressive the dmg will be impressive all u haters will see you guys just don't open up ur mind

    This, a thousand times this.

  • @Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:

    @Set.7461 said:
    Can Spiritcrush be used behind you now or is that the same?

    Edit: also is the missing missles bug fixed with Sevenshot?

    Spiritcrush remains targeted and can only be used in a direction you can see.

    At least one bug with disappearing missiles was fixed with Sevenshot, so tentatively yes :)

    I was thinking about Spiritcrush and the issue with it right now is that if i'm running in a direction and I use spiritcrush in front of me and mid cast animation I cross over where I placed the aoe circle, it just cancels the skill all together. While I get the reasoning behind needing to see where I'm putting my arrows, it doesn't really make sense given that the theme of the profession is to be able to strike through portals and hit at weird angles and such. Thematically it feels weird that I can use bloodbane path while not facing my target but this cancels mid cast even though I'm clearly shooting my arrow through a portal to then open up over some other location and rain down hell on my enemies. Please consider changing this in future. It would be a huge QOL change and would definitely not make shortbow OP.

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @aimz.6287 said:
    FOR EVERYONE SAYING THAT THE BLEEDS ISNT GOOD IS STUPID LOL, First thing is first, 50 stacks of bleed WILL ALWAYS happen you will always have 50 stacks, people hit 10 attacks at least every 10 secs easily 50 will stack condi warrior stacks 30 bleeds for 10k imagine 20 more bleeds.... ur gonna be doing like 15-18k bleeds guys.... stop complaining use ur Brain.... renegade REVENANTs dmg will be amazing in pve really really good. Now imagine 15k torment 12k burning 15k bleeds 4K poison 46k JUST CONDITIONS and revenants power dmg is also really impressive the dmg will be impressive all u haters will see you guys just don't open up ur mind

    Lol... I can apply this logic to any shareable skill, including passive auras, and will get he same result if not even better. This is clearly not how you measure anything.

    First, this will never happen anywhere in PvP. In fact this utility in particular should never ever be used in PvP at all. If you are not reserving all your energy for daze + CC break utility you are not going to last very long.

    Second how does this compare to other alternative skills? This comes at the cost of soulcleave. Really hard sell to use here considering soulcleave damage and sustainability.

    Last, I do not care how many stacks of bleed you put. If the ally is not condi build the value drops to obsecurity real quick.

    I won't go as far as calling this utility terrible, but there is a much better alternative in almost every situation in every game mode.

  • It goes off of your condition damage. I'm in way too much pain to run the numbers, but so far it seems that the elite is going to out damage the summons under basically any circumstances. What I don't like is that the summons are wholly dependent on having teammates to support you. Jalis/Malyx can function solo.

    "Self awareness is knowing when you're sitting at the throne of ignorance." --Leo G.

  • aimz.6287aimz.6287 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 22, 2017

    @otto.5684. Okay listen man it was just me explain to idiots that 50 stack bleeds is really impressive, think of the 25% condition duration and the 20% more dmg to bleeds trait and then using kalla ferver 20% that's amazing!!! Don't get me wrong renegade is not going to be amazing in pvp functions but it's pve dmg will definitely be outstanding. With pvp I agree to an extent that it's going to be hard honestly I think the devs want a lot of diversity in the community herald could be for pvp/wvw renegade could be for pve if u use renegade for pvp and complain it sucksas a whole ur a joke because in all reality it's probably the best dmg in pve and vice Versa as in if you play herald in raids people are going to hate u because why would u make the team suck.... just go renegade.... does that make sense.... they are both elite specs renegade doesn't trump herald and herald doesn't trump renegade it's about what is best in that current situation Oh yea and they don't get the tick dmg u do they just supply it. As in for example if u throw down ur spirit and then ur allies start attacking they do not get the bleed ticks ALL 50 stacks is urs... I was in pvp with carrion gear I dropped my spirit down and literally just stood there IN PVP I WILL REMIND U WITH NO BUFFS GETTING 20k ticks because 5 people around me got the bleeds up to the 80s with that being said if u don't think the devs are being fair to the community get over ur self or go play bdo because we don't need your grief all 50 stacks is for the renegade u will do mega dmg... herald for pvp, renegade for pve it's all about the.......THE CURRENT SITUATION!!!!!!!!!! GET IT IN UR BRAIN..... DIVERSITY PEOPLE.... DIVERSITY.... Also I'm extremely tired right now so if I have grammar errors get over urself anyways I'm out PCE OUT SUCCERS HAHAHAHAHA.... fr tho pce out stop being a hater... k.... pce

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kidel.2057 said:
    What's the advantage of having energy on Kalla? Every skill has its own cooldown, energy on Kalla is completely irrelevant. It just prevents from using skills when they are off cd.

    "Oh look, an enemy has stunned me during an upkeep, I'll just use Darkrazor's Daring to stunbreak"
    Not enough profession-specific energy. Of course since it's 30 energy cost.

    Please Irenio, acknowledge the fact that we basically have 50 energy, since you never reach 100 in a real fight unless you stop using skills for 5 seconds.

    Also all the skills that are too powerful to be spammed have high energy costs and no cd. If the energy cost is high you don't need to add cds. And vice-versa.

    Welcome to reverant. This is not nothing new. Jails suffers from the exact same problem. So does shiro to a lesser extent. Kalla just takes the same bad logic and make it worse.. much worse.. Not only do utilities competed with each other and weapon skills on the same resource devs added f2-f4 skills just to kitten with us.

  • Ealandur.1876Ealandur.1876 Member ✭✭
    edited September 22, 2017

    @aimz.6287 said:
    @otto.5684. Okay listen man it was just me explain to idiots that 50 stack bleeds is really impressive, think of the 25% condition duration and the 20% more dmg to bleeds trait and then using kalla ferver 20% that's amazing!!! Don't get me wrong renegade is not going to be amazing in pvp functions but it's pve dmg will definitely be outstanding. With pvp I agree to an extent that it's going to be hard honestly I think the devs want a lot of diversity in the community herald could be for pvp/wvw renegade could be for pve if u use renegade for pvp and complain it sucksas a whole ur a joke because in all reality it's probably the best dmg in pve and vice Versa as in if you play herald in raids people are going to hate u because why would u make the team kitten.... just go renegade.... does that make sense.... they are both elite specs renegade doesn't trump herald and herald doesn't trump renegade it's about what is best in that current situation Oh yea and they don't get the tick dmg u do they just supply it. As in for example if u throw down ur spirit and then ur allies start attacking they do not get the bleed ticks ALL 50 stacks is urs... I was in pvp with carrion gear I dropped my spirit down and literally just stood there IN PVP I WILL REMIND U WITH NO BUFFS GETTING 20k ticks because 5 people around me got the bleeds up to the 80s with that being said if u don't think the devs are being fair to the community get over ur self or go play bdo because we don't need your grief all 50 stacks is for the renegade u will do mega dmg... herald for pvp, renegade for pve it's all about the.......THE CURRENT SITUATION!!!!!!!!!! GET IT IN UR BRAIN..... DIVERSITY PEOPLE.... DIVERSITY.... Also I'm extremely tired right now so if I have grammar errors get over urself anyways I'm out PCE OUT SUCCERS HAHAHAHAHA.... fr tho pce out stop being a hater... k.... pce

    Let's do a little Math before you call out people like that shall we ?

    Razorclaw's Rage is a Buff given to 5 people lasting 10 seconds, pulsing every Second. Having a 15 seconds CD and Costing 25 Energy.
    This Skills can get up to 27'350 damage (with 50 Stacks of Bleed), coming from 4s Bleeds at 547 Damage.

    Now, you do know that the Elite Soulcleave's Summit is COMPLETELY Overshadowing Razorclaw's Rage ?, I'm sure you do, BUT it is also overshadowed by another "Basic" Skill alone, which is Echoing Eruption (Mace 3).

    Now let us see why, shall we ?
    Echoing Eruption is at 16'293 Damage (only counting the Torment it puts), Coming from 5 Torment Stacks lasting 20 Seconds.
    It's costs are 5 Energy and 8 Seconds CD.

    Now, compare the two and tell me WHY I should waste my energy on Razorclaw's Rage.
    I hope for your own sake that you can see beyond the "Hype" and see Reality as it is, that being that Renegade is not that great besides the Kalla Stacks and the Elite, not that great at all.
    Oh and also, Power Revenant will get Power Creeped by the other Elites in PvP and WvW Environments.
    So in the end, yeah we can do Raids, but that doesn't mean we are in a good position, because in reality many of the core features of Revenant DO Need Buffs, at least enough to compensate the Nerfs that the Class got in these years.

    I don't want to finish on a bad note, so... have a Nice PoF Start !

    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vlAQJApnnXMjcNDlNjtND2ND8NDFUlKNAKgE4fETxXE-jVSAQBhU5XXVDYd7AERVfk2JAwLLPAgHAAbVCGQ9AkCAilVA-w
    For the Numbers, the Sigil of Agony is only there to see what we got when the Trait "Blood Fury" is active.

  • @Jthug.9506 said:

    @Cross Tobias.2680 said:

    @Bramley.1943 said:
    I love these updates, just a quick design question.. Why does Icerazor's Ire do vulnerability damage and not chilling. The name ICE Razor... CHILLING damaged. It MUST of been planned at once stage- Was this overpowered so changed. Just wondering if there is a reason for this weird lack of skill names matching the skill? (I hope I explained this question okay)

    I Have a feeling that they wont do this due to the number of projectiles that Icerazor fires and the synergy with Abyssal Chill would easily stack too many stacks of damaging conditions to a single target. That's probably why they wont add the chill effect, though I do think that the first projectile he fires should be a chilling one, and the rest cripple. this would force some people to dodge or take a face full of the projectiles (which should hurt with the damage buff) so the chill would help counter their endurance regen and burn a dodge / condi cleanse out of them.

    They could maybe just give him the same effect as the sigil of hydromancy.

    I reckon that would be a good idea, A small ice burst as he is summoned followed by the current set of cripples and vuln... would be pretty awesome :)

  • @ZeftheWicked.3076 said:

    @Bramley.1943 said:
    I love these updates, just a quick design question.. Why does Icerazor's Ire do vulnerability damage and not chilling. The name ICE Razor... CHILLING damaged. It MUST of been planned at once stage- Was this overpowered so changed. Just wondering if there is a reason for this weird lack of skill names matching the skill? (I hope I explained this question okay)

    They are probs afraid of it getting way outta hand with "chilled to torment stacks" trait.
    Also applying 20 stacks of chill in a short time, while max stacks cap is 5 is bit...flimsy to say the least.

    Then change the name!

  • @Cross Tobias.2680 said:

    @Bramley.1943 said:
    I love these updates, just a quick design question.. Why does Icerazor's Ire do vulnerability damage and not chilling. The name ICE Razor... CHILLING damaged. It MUST of been planned at once stage- Was this overpowered so changed. Just wondering if there is a reason for this weird lack of skill names matching the skill? (I hope I explained this question okay)

    I Have a feeling that they wont do this due to the number of projectiles that Icerazor fires and the synergy with Abyssal Chill would easily stack too many stacks of damaging conditions to a single target. That's probably why they wont add the chill effect, though I do think that the first projectile he fires should be a chilling one, and the rest cripple. this would force some people to dodge or take a face full of the projectiles (which should hurt with the damage buff) so the chill would help counter their endurance regen and burn a dodge / condi cleanse out of them.

    Or change the name to make more sense haha!

  • @Bio Flame.4276 said:
    I still think and feel that Renegade is lackluster.
    Also, without Glint/Herald, the rest of the Revenant core class feels underpowered and lacking in synergy.

    I don't think this is the case. I have glint exclusively for the speed boost between fights. I main in Rev and always have Mallyx for the condi damage. Im really excited by the new Legend, as Revs can now focus on condi damage. Both weapon sets and legends devoted to one thing, instead of every weapon and legends being focused in different areas

  • Lionwait.4815Lionwait.4815 Member ✭✭
    edited September 22, 2017

    I really like the changes and I cant wait to play it in WvW. The only thing that disappointed me was that spiritcrush still cant be cast behind me when running away. Not only do we have to wait for the cast time on it but the projectile flying in the air and then the ticks to even apply a bit of dmg. I don't understand why Anet is being a hard arss about fixing this problem. I mean hell the range on it is only 900. Even necro's staff marks you can cast behind them at 1200 range and have no projectile flying in the air to wait on. If I think about it.... I Can't come up with another dmg ground targeting skill that lets me run and cast it with such a BS limitation on it, can you?

  • Jthug.9506Jthug.9506 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ealandur.1876 said:

    @aimz.6287 said:
    @otto.5684. Okay listen man it was just me explain to idiots that 50 stack bleeds is really impressive, think of the 25% condition duration and the 20% more dmg to bleeds trait and then using kalla ferver 20% that's amazing!!! Don't get me wrong renegade is not going to be amazing in pvp functions but it's pve dmg will definitely be outstanding. With pvp I agree to an extent that it's going to be hard honestly I think the devs want a lot of diversity in the community herald could be for pvp/wvw renegade could be for pve if u use renegade for pvp and complain it sucksas a whole ur a joke because in all reality it's probably the best dmg in pve and vice Versa as in if you play herald in raids people are going to hate u because why would u make the team kitten.... just go renegade.... does that make sense.... they are both elite specs renegade doesn't trump herald and herald doesn't trump renegade it's about what is best in that current situation Oh yea and they don't get the tick dmg u do they just supply it. As in for example if u throw down ur spirit and then ur allies start attacking they do not get the bleed ticks ALL 50 stacks is urs... I was in pvp with carrion gear I dropped my spirit down and literally just stood there IN PVP I WILL REMIND U WITH NO BUFFS GETTING 20k ticks because 5 people around me got the bleeds up to the 80s with that being said if u don't think the devs are being fair to the community get over ur self or go play bdo because we don't need your grief all 50 stacks is for the renegade u will do mega dmg... herald for pvp, renegade for pve it's all about the.......THE CURRENT SITUATION!!!!!!!!!! GET IT IN UR BRAIN..... DIVERSITY PEOPLE.... DIVERSITY.... Also I'm extremely tired right now so if I have grammar errors get over urself anyways I'm out PCE OUT SUCCERS HAHAHAHAHA.... fr tho pce out stop being a hater... k.... pce



    Let's do a little Math before you call out people like that shall we ?

    Razorclaw's Rage is a Buff given to 5 people lasting 10 seconds, pulsing every Second. Having a 15 seconds CD and Costing 25 Energy.
    This Skills can get up to 27'350 damage (with 50 Stacks of Bleed), coming from 4s Bleeds at 547 Damage.

    Now, you do know that the Elite Soulcleave's Summit is COMPLETELY Overshadowing Razorclaw's Rage ?, I'm sure you do, BUT it is also overshadowed by another "Basic" Skill alone, which is Echoing Eruption (Mace 3).

    Now let us see why, shall we ?
    Echoing Eruption is at 16'293 Damage (only counting the Torment it puts), Coming from 5 Torment Stacks lasting 20 Seconds.
    It's costs are 5 Energy and 8 Seconds CD.

    Now, compare the two and tell me WHY I should waste my energy on Razorclaw's Rage.
    I hope for your own sake that you can see beyond the "Hype" and see Reality as it is, that being that Renegade is not that great besides the Kalla Stacks and the Elite, not that great at all.
    Oh and also, Power Revenant will get Power Creeped by the other Elites in PvP and WvW Environments.
    So in the end, yeah we can do Raids, but that doesn't mean we are in a good position, because in reality many of the core features of Revenant DO Need Buffs, at least enough to compensate the Nerfs that the Class got in these years.


    I don't want to finish on a bad note, so... have a Nice PoF Start !


    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vlAQJApnnXMjcNDlNjtND2ND8NDFUlKNAKgE4fETxXE-jVSAQBhU5XXVDYd7AERVfk2JAwLLPAgHAAbVCGQ9AkCAilVA-w
    For the Numbers, the Sigil of Agony is only there to see what we got when the Trait "Blood Fury" is active.

    The reason to use razorclaw's is simple, it sticks around when you switch to mallyx, the elite doesn't. My guess is that you will want to have razorclaw up all the time. The elite is nice burst but I seriously doubt it will ultimately be more dps to dump all your energy into it when it's upkeep is at -9, the training dummy will give us the answers, and QTFY will be at the bottom of this within a few weeks at most I am sure.