Why I Keep Leaving GW2

I've been a long-time fan of Guild Wars, having played since the original beta for GW1. I decked out my Hall of Monuments in great anticipation for the release of what seemed to be the next generation MMO the genre desperately needed. And for the most part, Anet succeeded in creating something entirely fresh and different from the usual formula. But I believe a number of their innovations were detrimental to the gameplay, and I'm ready for yet another long break. Here's why:

1. This is the most asocial MMO I've ever played. There are so many reasons for this, but I think the first problem I noticed was how people can join multiple guilds. This killed my guild I started during launch, as it was a relatively smaller guild, and the larger guilds and their enticing bonuses swallowed up my members. The lack of a need to "commit" to a guild really ruined the sense of community. My members could try out another guild without having to leave mine, and once they saw it had more to offer (charming as my little guild was) they disappeared.

Secondly, there is no incentive to party up with anyone. You solo through the majority of PvE content, and any time you need another person you just hop on a zerg train and join the DPS blob where you don't need to communicate. And because people can fast travel instantly at any time, you miss out on a lot of opportunities to run into other people like in other games. I'm not going to name any of these other games, but we'll go ahead and say that in a more traditional MMO you will have long stretches of empty space that you must travel by foot or mount to get from one point to another. I can't tell you how many times I've socialized and made buddies with someone during these moments. Making fast travel cost more could help; the amount you currently have to pay is absolutely trivial in relation to how much gold people have nowadays. Or perhaps incorporate some kind of cooldown. Now that there are mounts, we really don't need so much fast traveling anymore. But, that would be inconvenient, which I'll be discussing in point #2.

Thirdly, there is very little downtime in this game where people just hang out and socialize. In Guild Wars 1, so many city hubs had people dancing, chatting, drinking (which you would actually notice in GW1), showing off minis, and people made friends quite easily. The mission design also forced people to work together (at least, before Nightfall came around and introduced heroes). Introducing more chill activities like fishing would really help with this--especially if a social mechanic were implemented, like requiring two people to work together to catch a larger fish. Or maybe bug catching--that'd be pretty different. Or at least creating emotes where people can sync together, such as music (think Asheron's Call 2--I can mention that one because it's dead) where someone can type /music1 or some such and beatbox, the next person can type /music2 and hum a melody over that, etc. How about having some two person mounts? Or housing, with incentives to bring people into your home? This would be a great opportunity for Anet to really show their unique and innovative creativity.

2. The game seem terrified of inconveniencing anyone. From having almost no penalty for dying to letting players get the full reward for killing a mob even if they only hit it once, to even getting rewards for failing an event, Anet does not want you ever feeling a whole lot of tension, or conflict with other players. I believe that's why this community is one of the friendlier MMO communities, because outside of PvP (which is its own separate thing) we are never in competition with each other--and everyone wins, all the time. But there should be competition. I want to know that, because I put more effort into a battle and did more damage or healing than Bob in the back who just spammed autoattack the whole time, I'll be rewarded more than he will. I think that's healthy competition and creates more incentive to try your best. Otherwise, why not just perform at the bare minimum required?

3. Inventory management. Inventory management. Inventory management.

Please, enough with the trash blues and greens already. I spend far too much time after every meta event playing Inventory Wars 2, salvaging my free time away. I hate it. I absolutely freaking hate it. Give us fewer items that are better. There is no reason at all why we need to keep having to delete all these garbage green runes after every meta event in a max level expansion area. I would happily give up all the copious amounts of lesser loot in Auric Basin for ONE chest that has something of greater value. Seriously, the inventory and itemization in this game are an absolute mess and need to be finally addressed.

4. Level scaling. This is a very controversial one. While I appreciate the innovation of it, I don't personally care for it. I like being able to come back to a previous area I had some trouble with and obliterate all the mobs there--if I want to. Maybe it seems selfish, but this is how MMOs all used to be, and I feel no shame in saying that I still thoroughly enjoy it. Witnessing how far my character has progressed is one of the things I love about RPGs, and it's fun to help players smash through difficult areas (or ask someone to do the smashing). With level scaling it always feels like you're fighting the same battle no matter how far in the game you get; you don't ever feel like you're getting truly powerful. I think giving us the choice to scale down would be a better option, but that's just me. I have a feeling this is yet another feature that was implemented to prevent people from being inconvenienced, and I know it will never be removed, but I figured I'd mention it anyway since it is something that has always bothered me.

5. Tying skills to weapons resulted in players using largely the same skills the entire game, whereas in GW1 you could use any skill you wanted. It was amazingly free and you could get really creative with it. I remember just daydreaming about the kinds of classes I could make. Especially now that I have a legendary bow (Kudzu); of course I want to keep using that weapon because I worked so hard for it and it's beautiful, which means the same five bow skills over...and over...again.

6. Soulbeast and the dagger wielding that came with it are both awful. So disappointed, as my main is a ranger. Base spec continues.

7. Can we get someone to blow up LA again so we can get the old design back? That'd be great.

Seriously though, this game has so much potential. Just a little change could go a long way in creating a more immersive and addictive experience. As it stands, I find myself getting annoyed a little too often for my liking, and I'm unable to feel fully immersed like with other MMOs. If the goal is to make a singleplayer game with a chatbox and other players running around, well, the content just isn't compelling enough to compete with an actual singleplayer game. I know people are very satisfied with how the game is now, and that's great--I'm not trying to ruin it for them. But as someone who generally doesn't post on forums, I just want to chime in and give my own personal thoughts in hopes that they represent others who also aren't so vocal. You can decide to do what you want with them. Cheers.

For me is the lack of incentive. Im at the point where getting shiny stuff doesnt ring to me and the content doesnt provide any meaningful gear which is due to the way ane developed this mmo.

I also agree with your idea on community the gane hardly makes any effrot to get you to know other ppl all in the effort to make it casual friendly.

I disagree with the comment on scaling zones the feature is great while still allowing you ro demolish every enemy once max lvl for that zone.

It's funny most of the things that you don't like about the game are strong points for the people that stick around. It's almost as if you're not the intended audience for this particular MMO.

@Lunateric.3708 said:It's funny most of the things that you don't like about the game are strong points for the people that stick around. It's almost as if you're not the intended audience for this particular MMO.

Well I loved Guild Wars 1 and put over 2,000 hours into it, so I believe I may have been part of the intended audience?

Literally the exact opposite experiences as me. I am in multiple guilds and still manage to be social in all of them. My smaller guild is still around and kicking, it even has a guild hall and some upgrades. Parties are for friends. But there is plenty of situations where squads are very useful and encouraged for people to join. I never had an issue with not running into people. There is a lot of downtime where people chill and chat. The main location for this is Lion's Arch. I have actually sat and talked to people there for hours when I had originally planned to go do other content.

"I think that's healthy competition" No, that's a recipe for toxicity.

I do not have this problem. I very very very rarely fill my bags.

Going back to a low level area and killing a trash mob does not make me feel powerful at all. Going into raids and killing a hard boss with my blood, sweat, and tears makes me feel powerful.

Weapon swapping is a thing. If you insist on using only one weapon but wanting different skills. Play a different class that uses that weapon for a while. While I can agree that having traits change some of the weapon skills would be interesting, it would also be complex and hard for the devs to work with and keep balanced.

I do not even know how to respond to this. First, you do not have to use the weapon that came with an elite spec when using that elite spec. Also, I still play a lot on my base engi because I do not like it's elites. This is not a reason to leave the game. It's barely even worth talking about.

I like the new LA.

@Jaunty.6018 said:

@Lunateric.3708 said:It's funny most of the things that you don't like about the game are strong points for the people that stick around. It's almost as if you're not the intended audience for this particular MMO.

Guildwars 1 and 2 are completely different games and their design philosophy is also completely different. The only thing they share is the name and the lore.

@Jaunty.6018 said:

@Lunateric.3708 said:It's funny most of the things that you don't like about the game are strong points for the people that stick around. It's almost as if you're not the intended audience for this particular MMO.

2000 hours? Those are rookie numbers, GW2 is half as old as GW1 was when GW2 released, i already have twice those hours, and i've taken big breaks, plus work...As for GW1 vs GW2 they are incredibly different games, so it's very possible that you were the intended audience for GW1, a MORPG (notice the lack of an M) with 100% instanced content, made for a single player experience with optional small groups in PvE, and with some interesting PvP options.Vs GW2, a full fledge MMORPG, with mostly open world pve, and events intended for large groups, with massive WvW and small scale PvP.

I also don't love the lack of commitment they had to the guild system, the multi-guild option does hinder the game in several aspects, and does cripple smaller guilds (like mine as well -although still functional since launch), there's barely anything to do as a guild, and what there is is old, stale and incredibly repetitive at this point.

But the quality of the rest far surpasses that of just about any MMORPG out there. Although if i'm being Honest, everything that GW2 does wrong in terms of the social aspect of the game BDO does pretty good. Honestly the perfect MMORPG would probably be GW2 with the social and economical features of BDO.

@"Mewcifer.5198" said:

1. Literally the exact opposite experiences as me. I am in multiple guilds and still manage to be social in all of them. My smaller guild is still around and kicking, it even has a guild hall and some upgrades. Parties are for friends. But there is plenty of situations where squads are very useful and encouraged for people to join. I never had an issue with not running into people. There is a lot of downtime where people chill and chat. The main location for this is Lion's Arch. I have actually sat and talked to people there for hours when I had originally planned to go do other content.

Talking in squads or on map chat is not the same. Can't remember one single time in my 1,000+ hours when I became friends with someone just by gabbing on map chat. Mostly people want to spout off a bunch of junk publicly because they're bored and seeking attention.

2. "I think that's healthy competition" No, that's a recipe for toxicity.

How is that a recipe for toxicity? To be rewarded more for putting in more effort? If you're arguing that autoattacking Bob would become vocal about not being rewarded as much as me, well, should we design the whole game around autoattacking Bob? Should we cater to him and give him a pat on the back for simply showing up? I say no. Anet says yes. That's where we differ.

3. I do not have this problem. I very very very rarely fill my bags.

I'm sorry, are we playing the same game? My bags are constantly full.

4. Going back to a low level area and killing a trash mob does not make me feel powerful at all. Going into raids and killing a hard boss with my blood, sweat, and tears makes me feel powerful.

That's fine. I expect many people to disagree with me there.

5. Weapon swapping is a thing. If you insist on using only one weapon but wanting different skills. Play a different class that uses that weapon for a while. While I can agree that having traits change some of the weapon skills would be interesting, it would also be complex and hard for the devs to work with and keep balanced.

Really? I had no idea weapon swapping was a thing. Thank you for enlightening me.

Also, "that would be hard" isn't really a great reason for Anet not making changes.

6. I do not even know how to respond to this. First, you do not have to use the weapon that came with an elite spec when using that elite spec. Also, I still play a lot on my base engi because I do not like it's elites. This is not a reason to leave the game. It's barely even worth talking about.

I'm very well aware that you don't have to use the weapon that came with an elite spec when using that elite spec. I simply don't like the dagger abilities and I don't find daggers to be a desirable weapon choice for a ranger. And if I were excited to try a new elite spec in order to change up the monotony of my favorite class, then yes, it could very well be a good reason to leave the game. Of course, it's not my sole reason, as you can see. But it's worth mentioning.

7. I like the new LA.

That's great.

@ReaverKane.7598 said:

@Jaunty.6018 said:

@Lunateric.3708 said:It's funny most of the things that you don't like about the game are strong points for the people that stick around. It's almost as if you're not the intended audience for this particular MMO.

Your numbers might be bigger than my numbers, but 2,000 hours is still a massive amount of time and plenty more than enough to understand the game.

But the quality of the rest far surpasses that of just about any MMORPG out there. Although if i'm being Honest, everything that GW2 does wrong in terms of the social aspect of the game BDO does pretty good. Honestly the perfect MMORPG would probably be GW2 with the social and economical features of BDO.

The production values certainly are fantastic, and that's part of what keeps me coming back. But, production values only keep me interested for so long. And BDO is a very interesting game, but it's a different kind of MMO entirely. I don't mind GW2 being a theme park MMO; doesn't mean it can't be more immersive and socially minded.

Okay. Bye. See you when you get back.

I despise the notion that everything always seems to have to be competitive all the time. I prefer to do things together with others in an unforced way. The way GW2 lets you jump in, what you call a 'zerg', seems way more like natural human behavior than the straight jacketed 'grouping up' where you are expected to play your role perfectly or else you get kicked.

I disagree with most of what you said OP and would say that all your gripes and disagrees come from having different personal preferences that are better served in most of the other MMO's out there.

I do agree that this game could do with a fishing rod and some lures though... B)

@Lunateric.3708 said:It's funny most of the things that you don't like about the game are strong points for the people that stick around. It's almost as if you're not the intended audience for this particular MMO.

Sums it all up perfectly and hits the nail right on the head imo.

well I can't speak for anyone else, but my take away was that you keep coming back

@"Jaunty.6018" said:

1. This is the most asocial MMO I've ever played. There are so many reasons for this, but I think the first problem I noticed was how people can join multiple guilds. This killed my guild I started during launch, as it was a relatively smaller guild, and the larger guilds and their enticing bonuses swallowed up my members. The lack of a need to "commit" to a guild really ruined the sense of community. My members could try out another guild without having to leave mine, and once they saw it had more to offer (charming as my little guild was) they disappeared.

This is not an asocial MMO to me. I play with friends when I want and by myself when I want. I enjoy meeting new friends here without being forced too. Also I love the fact that I can join multiple guilds. Right now I am on 3 guilds which I chat with friends and do stuff with occasionally. I refuse to join guilds that want me to commit to one because it ruins diversity. Also if your little guild has nothing to offer then that is your problem not the game's. In fact small guilds can be better than big ones if you organize events and get your friends in guild involved in them since less people means more people know each other better and more likely will do things with each other while as big guilds most people at times don't know each other from my experience.

Secondly, there is no incentive to party up with anyone. You solo through the majority of PvE content, and any time you need another person you just hop on a zerg train and join the DPS blob where you don't need to communicate. And because people can fast travel instantly at any time, you miss out on a lot of opportunities to run into other people like in other games. I'm not going to name any of these other games, but we'll go ahead and say that in a more traditional MMO you will have long stretches of empty space that you must travel by foot or mount to get from one point to another. I can't tell you how many times I've socialized and made buddies with someone during these moments. Making fast travel cost more could help; the amount you currently have to pay is absolutely trivial in relation to how much gold people have nowadays. Or perhaps incorporate some kind of cooldown. Now that there are mounts, we really don't need so much fast traveling anymore. But, that would be inconvenient, which I'll be discussing in point #2.

I always party with my friends when I play with them. And there is incentive to party with friends. Partying with them helps you keep track on where they are while playing together through the minimap and it allows you to enter each other's instances like story, dungeons, fractels , raids, guild missions and just exploration/jumping puzzles. Yes you can solo majority of content and that is what makes this game great! You can play by yourself when you need a break from people, and you can play with friends when you feel like socializing. Also while doing events I find it really fun when people come and help me with them. Also fast travel is awesome and I love it. It makes it easier to get to places you need to be and helps you meet up with friends quicker for things you wanna do. I'm so glad GW2 isn't a traditional MMO, I rather be playing the game than running long stretches of empty spaces by foot. Fast travel costing more is terrible idea. This isn't FF14.... This is GW2!

Thirdly, there is very little downtime in this game where people just hang out and socialize. In Guild Wars 1, so many city hubs had people dancing, chatting, drinking (which you would actually notice in GW1), showing off minis, and people made friends quite easily. The mission design also forced people to work together (at least, before Nightfall came around and introduced heroes). Introducing more chill activities like fishing would really help with this--especially if a social mechanic were implemented, like requiring two people to work together to catch a larger fish. Or maybe bug catching--that'd be pretty different. Or at least creating emotes where people can sync together, such as music (think Asheron's Call 2--I can mention that one because it's dead) where someone can type /music1 or some such and beatbox, the next person can type /music2 and hum a melody over that, etc. How about having some two person mounts? Or housing, with incentives to bring people into your home? This would be a great opportunity for Anet to really show their unique and innovative creativity.

Lions Arch and PvP Lobby has a lot of people chatting in map. Also as an RPer I find a lot of RP people chatting In character and out of character at the bar and such. There are plenty of minigames in GW2 in forms of adventures which have score boards too. Those are fun.

2. The game seem terrified of inconveniencing anyone. From having almost no penalty for dying to letting players get the full reward for killing a mob even if they only hit it once, to even getting rewards for failing an event, Anet does not want you ever feeling a whole lot of tension, or conflict with other players. I believe that's why this community is one of the friendlier MMO communities, because outside of PvP (which is its own separate thing) we are never in competition with each other--and everyone wins, all the time. But there should be competition. I want to know that, because I put more effort into a battle and did more damage or healing than Bob in the back who just spammed autoattack the whole time, I'll be rewarded more than he will. I think that's healthy competition and creates more incentive to try your best. Otherwise, why not just perform at the bare minimum required?

Good, I dont want to play a game that is inconvenient. I want to play a game that is conveniently accessable and fun. The pentalty for death is just fine the way it is. It's not annoying enough to a point where you feel punished for playing and it's not useless enough where you feel like you're God. I wouldn't change it personally. Also you should get full reward for contributing by hitting mobs, even if you don't do the most damage because it's not all about who does the most damage. It's about survival too. The reward for killing is fair and the reward for failing is also fair. You get more be winning the event obviously so winning is always better than losing. Also I don't want to have any conflict or tention with other players when playing PvE content. I want to make friends while exploring and having fun. The fact that I am glad to see other players participating in the same event I am because they are helping me makes me feel great! I don't play PvE to be in a "competition"... If I want to compete then I will go play PvP. What you're asking for breeds toxic community and it's not healthy for PvE at all. I choose to play GW2 because it doesn't do that and I'm glad an MMO like this exists for people like me who love rare games like this that eliminates the most annoying aspects of other MMOs.

3. Inventory management. Inventory management. Inventory management.

I have that Mastery were everytime I kill mobs, it auto-loots yet I never have to worry about inventory management. Maybe you need to buy bigger bags?

Please, enough with the trash blues and greens already. I spend far too much time after every meta event playing Inventory Wars 2, salvaging my free time away. I hate it. I absolutely freaking hate it. Give us fewer items that are better. There is no reason at all why we need to keep having to delete all these garbage green runes after every meta event in a max level expansion area. I would happily give up all the copious amounts of lesser loot in Auric Basin for ONE chest that has something of greater value. Seriously, the inventory and itemization in this game are an absolute mess and need to be finally addressed.

I actually just salvage all the trash loots for valuable materials which I store for crafting later. Plus you get a lot of Luck essense which are great!

4. Level scaling. This is a very controversial one. While I appreciate the innovation of it, I don't personally care for it. I like being able to come back to a previous area I had some trouble with and obliterate all the mobs there--if I want to. Maybe it seems selfish, but this is how MMOs all used to be, and I feel no shame in saying that I still thoroughly enjoy it. Witnessing how far my character has progressed is one of the things I love about RPGs, and it's fun to help players smash through difficult areas (or ask someone to do the smashing). With level scaling it always feels like you're fighting the same battle no matter how far in the game you get; you don't ever feel like you're getting truly powerful. I think giving us the choice to scale down would be a better option, but that's just me. I have a feeling this is yet another feature that was implemented to prevent people from being inconvenienced, and I know it will never be removed, but I figured I'd mention it anyway since it is something that has always bothered me.

I love level scaling. I love the fact that I can come back to lower level areas, keep all my skills and traits and fight again without it being too easy. But if you want to feel like a bad ass, I recommend you play challenging content at higher levels... Also I like getting exp at lower level content/areas I haven't explored on my alts that are lvl80. ArenaNet done a wonderful job with level scaling, but I would prefer if they scaled you more down so the low level mobs would be a little more tougher too kill. It would make low level areas more challenging if they did and it should be more challenging since I have more skills than before.

5. Tying skills to weapons resulted in players using largely the same skills the entire game, whereas in GW1 you could use any skill you wanted. It was amazingly free and you could get really creative with it. I remember just daydreaming about the kinds of classes I could make. Especially now that I have a legendary bow (Kudzu); of course I want to keep using that weapon because I worked so hard for it and it's beautiful, which means the same five bow skills over...and over...again.

I love how skills 1-5 are tied to weapons, and I love weapon swapping. On Engineer I swap weapon kits a lot and on Elementalist I swap a lot on attunments which gives even more skills to juggle. Also I love how I can change up utility skills too. I love the combat system in this game so much that I even wrote a guide on it here:https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/806/gw2-combat-system-build-101-guide

6. Soulbeast and the dagger wielding that came with it are both awful. So disappointed, as my main is a ranger. Base spec continues.

I don't think they are awful... They are kinda fun in my opinion but if you don't like it, you dont have to use them. =) Best part of GW2 is you can build your class however you prefer to play and still be fine playing majority of content it has to offer!

7. Can we get someone to blow up LA again so we can get the old design back? That'd be great.

No!!! I like the new LA! But... the new soundtrack kinda sucks... In my opinion they should change the soundtrack to this:

Seriously though, this game has so much potential. Just a little change could go a long way in creating a more immersive and addictive experience. As it stands, I find myself getting annoyed a little too often for my liking, and I'm unable to feel fully immersed like with other MMOs. If the goal is to make a singleplayer game with a chatbox and other players running around, well, the content just isn't compelling enough to compete with an actual singleplayer game. I know people are very satisfied with how the game is now, and that's great--I'm not trying to ruin it for them. But as someone who generally doesn't post on forums, I just want to chime in and give my own personal thoughts in hopes that they represent others who also aren't so vocal. You can decide to do what you want with them. Cheers.

Yes the game has a lot of potential to be better than it already is. But to me it is the best MMORPG out there in the market. But I dont agree with the little changes you desire since it goes against so much of what I love about this game as it is currently. If you are unable to feel fully immersed like with other MMOs, then maybe play other MMOs? This is an RPG game in an MMO World... where you can play solo or with others and it's designed so you can play however you desire.

Thank you for sharing your opinion with us! =) These are just my opinion I wanted to share myself.Have a wonderful day/night!

3. You know what I do with those low level Runes and Sigils...sell them to the Merchant for 16 c...do I need the copper, not at all, but that pays me back for all the salvaging costs with the Copper-Fed for the most part.

As for the social aspects, MMO doesn't mean that you have to be friends with everyone or anyone for that matter, it just means that there are a lot of people playing the same game as you...grouping up, entirely optional which is exactly how the game was advertised, there's even a few supposed Group events that can be done solo...and I find that enjoyable. Also it helps to find people that enjoy the same activities as you in game, and happen to play around the same time...that's how it starts, but to each his own.

Even the ArenaNet developers that worked on GW1 stated what a nightmare it was to balance all those hundreds of skills they developed, which is why they chose the direction they did for GW2. Are players happy, far from it, is the game balanced...it depends on what mode you play and what each individual person considers balance. In the end the only thing that matters is whether or not ArenaNet considers the game balanced, it's their game after all.

Here's the kicker...the game was specifically designed with the intention of people coming and going at their whim, so leaving and coming back is exactly what ArenaNet wants and it's what they get for the most part. They don't want anyone thinking they have to log in every single day and play, even with the implementation of Daily Log-in rewards, no matter how contrary that might sound(why do you think it doesn't reset if you miss a day or two or a week or a month?).

I hope you guys understand I can't reply to all the comments, but I appreciate you taking the time to read my post and voicing your own opinions. Maybe you don't agree with what I wrote, which is fine, but that doesn't invalidate my views--views that plenty of others who also are unsatisfied with the game have had, having glanced around forums via Google. I don't expect this game to be FF14 or WoW or anything of that sort; I think it can continue to be Guild Wars 2 and unique and yet also cater to those who desire a bit more immersion in their MMOs. There is a balance that can be achieved. Implementing more non-combat social activities would particularly be fantastic. I think most of us could agree on that.

While I don’t disagree that your views are valid, at the end of the day there comes a point where you have to admit to yourself that what you want to change is drastic enough to the core game that maybe it just isn’t what you are looking for. I hate that, because I hate seeing people go who have been in the game as long as you, but some of your ideas would change what GW2 is at its core, and that just won’t happen.

This is a very open world friendly game, so the idea of punishing players for having less dps than others in the open world will never happen. It would lead to far too much “quit kill stealing!!” drama that simply does not exist now, and serves no valid purpose in the current design of the game. This game’s PvE wasn’t meant to pit players against each other; it is meant to make them work together. Anet won’t be changing that now.

Level scaling is in the same boat. The world is meant to feel seamless, and allow you to experience some form of “challenge”, albeit not much of one once you are geared, at any level in any zone. It is one of the most popular features discussed in this game, and one that other MMOs are adopting. Better chance of them renaming it “World of Guild Fantasy XIV” and adding Night Elf Moogles to the game than seeing that removed.

The skills tied to weapons is so engrained that I’m not sure they could even justify the development expense to replace that, and again it’s a core feature of the game. It keeps people like me, who were major theory crafters and build makers in Guild Wars 1, from recreating the balance nightmare that existed for so long in that game.

I do agree with the inventory management being needed, though. I can’t figure out why they haven’t really tackled that one yet. And poor soul beast has so much potential but totally boring.

Anyhow, I’m sorry those features bother you so much, but I’m afraid your best hope of seeing that happen is to win the lottery and buy out ArenaNet.

Well bye for now. See ya in a few months,since "you keep leaving". Or you can stay and play the game for what it is. You will never find a MMO that you like everything about it. There is always something. the things you like may not agree with what everybody else wants. " You can please some of the people some of the time, but not all the people all the time".

Most of these issues can be fixed by joining a wvw guild and doing pvp. Also map chat is super active in all the major cities, go ahead, start a conversation with someone in rata sum or divinity's reach. Also why would you want to get stripped of anything over dying in an MMO: do you want to get robbed?

What I will say is the blues and greens dropping more often has something to deal with the economy. I think John Smith has spoken about it before in the old forums. And yes you are right the recreation of lions arch is grade A evil.

Ill agree that there is nothing to play for. There is no end-game.There is no real incentive to do anything once you are lvl 80 fully ascended.Legendary gear is purely convenience. Outside of that there is nothing to do.

If I am not mistaken....the event hearts have participation tiers....bronze, silver, gold...so people that do more get higher rewards

GW2 is not for everyone. Despite the fact that you've said you've put in 2000 hours, there's something to be said if there are so many features in the game that continue to bother you. Entertainment is subjective, and if what GW2 has to offer isn't working for you, then it isn't working for you, and that's okay (even though I disagree entirely that GW2 is an asocial game from personal experience).

Personally, I love how the game is structured. I love that it heavily implements mechanics which require cooperation and teamwork, and I love the community that it fosters because of it. I've tried WoW a couple of times. I realized right away that I didn't like the overly competitive aspect of it, the system itself just never really appealed to me, and I didn't much care for the general community. Therefore, I discovered that maybe WoW just isn't for me, even though I love the concepts the game implements.

I have a couple of longtime IRL friends who have both put effort into GW2 so they can play it with me. Both of them have had their reasons for not enjoying it, and I hold no grudge against them for something not being to their liking. We're all individuals with different opinions and taste.

Looking at your original post, it looks like there are a lot of things you want to see from the game that simply won't be implemented for one reason or another, and what you want would require a major restructuring of the game. The system they have now works for plenty of people, and it seems like you just aren't getting much out of that system.

If you want to take a break, then take a break. I would suggest, however, maybe taking an objective look at how you feel about the game and asking yourself if it's really worth it to come back if you're just going to end up back in this situation again.

No matter what happens, I hope you find what you're looking for. :)

For me, points 4 to 7 are personal opinions. There is nothing wrong or right with those. Either we agree or not, based on own opinion, that's all. Each could probably deserve a separate thread for talking about.

Points 1 to 3 are more related to own experience. My is different from that described in OP:

1. I am in two guilds and committed the same to each. One is less than 10 persons, the other has about 500. Regularly, the big one come to help the small one, that's very nice. Aside of that, several of my friends are in several guilds (each specialized in a specific activity like WvW, raid...) and committed to each of them for the specific activity. I find that very much OK. That's what allows that guild can be specialized in one activity.
2. Regarding rewards: They are scaled according to participation (different level of chests, different drops). For the drops, I experience it myself regularly: If I arrive too late at an event: What I get is by far less than what I get when I take part fully. And if I am low in killing foes, I get no drops at all, or peanuts. As for competition mind: The way we play in this game is free. Each shall chose his/her own approach. If you want to play competitive, this is possible (adventures, challenge mode in primaries, PvP, ...), but of course, it needs to find players who want to be competitive too. Since GW2 is a RPG, I can imagine that a majority of players have a team mind and search else than competitive. So you are probably right, but I see nothing wrong in that. GW2 is intended to be like that. At least, I believe so.
3. Me too I spend lot of time with inventory. However, I like it the way it is: It gives us an enormous flexibility about what we want to do with what. That's really inventory "management" , and for me, part of the game. It is true that some more features easing to do it would be great. Typically, that with the minor green runes: I would like to have a button "sell rest" aside of the "sell junk" button. That way, I would empty inventory, and once only green runes remain, I would click "sell rest" and they would be gone all at once. And there are certainly more little things of this type that could be improved, but overall, I like to manage my inventory.

@ OP, I believe you that it is difficult to maintain a small guild. The small guild I am in is surviving because we are friends in real life, and that our objective is only to be together as friends. But it is not really a gaming guild. That's why aside of that, each of us is member of a bigger guild for gaming purposes. Our commitment is real, but on one side, it is a friendship commitment, on the other side, a gaming commitment. Without the possibility to be in several guilds, we would be very limited in what we can do.

For the rest of your issues, as said above, this is a matter of personal expectations and if GW2 is not fulfilling what you would like to have - especially since you seem to dislike core mechanic of the game like the skills tight to weapons - then yes, maybe that to change game is the solution for you. I wish you good luck and hope you will find what you want. :)

@"Jaunty.6018" said:I've been a long-time fan of Guild Wars, having played since the original beta for GW1. I decked out my Hall of Monuments in great anticipation for the release of what seemed to be the next generation MMO the genre desperately needed. And for the most part, Anet succeeded in creating something entirely fresh and different from the usual formula. But I believe a number of their innovations were detrimental to the gameplay, and I'm ready for yet another long break. Here's why:

1. This is the most asocial MMO I've ever played. There are so many reasons for this, but I think the first problem I noticed was how people can join multiple guilds. This killed my guild I started during launch, as it was a relatively smaller guild, and the larger guilds and their enticing bonuses swallowed up my members. The lack of a need to "commit" to a guild really ruined the sense of community. My members could try out another guild without having to leave mine, and once they saw it had more to offer (charming as my little guild was) they disappeared.

Secondly, there is no incentive to party up with anyone. You solo through the majority of PvE content, and any time you need another person you just hop on a zerg train and join the DPS blob where you don't need to communicate. And because people can fast travel instantly at any time, you miss out on a lot of opportunities to run into other people like in other games. I'm not going to name any of these other games, but we'll go ahead and say that in a more traditional MMO you will have long stretches of empty space that you must travel by foot or mount to get from one point to another. I can't tell you how many times I've socialized and made buddies with someone during these moments. Making fast travel cost more could help; the amount you currently have to pay is absolutely trivial in relation to how much gold people have nowadays. Or perhaps incorporate some kind of cooldown. Now that there are mounts, we really don't need so much fast traveling anymore. But, that would be inconvenient, which I'll be discussing in point #2.

Thirdly, there is very little downtime in this game where people just hang out and socialize. In Guild Wars 1, so many city hubs had people dancing, chatting, drinking (which you would actually notice in GW1), showing off minis, and people made friends quite easily. The mission design also forced people to work together (at least, before Nightfall came around and introduced heroes). Introducing more chill activities like fishing would really help with this--especially if a social mechanic were implemented, like requiring two people to work together to catch a larger fish. Or maybe bug catching--that'd be pretty different. Or at least creating emotes where people can sync together, such as music (think Asheron's Call 2--I can mention that one because it's dead) where someone can type /music1 or some such and beatbox, the next person can type /music2 and hum a melody over that, etc. How about having some two person mounts? Or housing, with incentives to bring people into your home? This would be a great opportunity for Anet to really show their unique and innovative creativity.

2. The game seem terrified of inconveniencing anyone. From having almost no penalty for dying to letting players get the full reward for killing a mob even if they only hit it once, to even getting rewards for failing an event, Anet does not want you ever feeling a whole lot of tension, or conflict with other players. I believe that's why this community is one of the friendlier MMO communities, because outside of PvP (which is its own separate thing) we are never in competition with each other--and everyone wins, all the time. But there should be competition. I want to know that, because I put more effort into a battle and did more damage or healing than Bob in the back who just spammed autoattack the whole time, I'll be rewarded more than he will. I think that's healthy competition and creates more incentive to try your best. Otherwise, why not just perform at the bare minimum required?

3. Inventory management. Inventory management. Inventory management.

Please, enough with the trash blues and greens already. I spend far too much time after every meta event playing Inventory Wars 2, salvaging my free time away. I hate it. I absolutely freaking hate it. Give us fewer items that are better. There is no reason at all why we need to keep having to delete all these garbage green runes after every meta event in a max level expansion area. I would happily give up all the copious amounts of lesser loot in Auric Basin for ONE chest that has something of greater value. Seriously, the inventory and itemization in this game are an absolute mess and need to be finally addressed.

4. Level scaling. This is a very controversial one. While I appreciate the innovation of it, I don't personally care for it. I like being able to come back to a previous area I had some trouble with and obliterate all the mobs there--if I want to. Maybe it seems selfish, but this is how MMOs all used to be, and I feel no shame in saying that I still thoroughly enjoy it. Witnessing how far my character has progressed is one of the things I love about RPGs, and it's fun to help players smash through difficult areas (or ask someone to do the smashing). With level scaling it always feels like you're fighting the same battle no matter how far in the game you get; you don't ever feel like you're getting truly powerful. I think giving us the choice to scale down would be a better option, but that's just me. I have a feeling this is yet another feature that was implemented to prevent people from being inconvenienced, and I know it will never be removed, but I figured I'd mention it anyway since it is something that has always bothered me.

5. Tying skills to weapons resulted in players using largely the same skills the entire game, whereas in GW1 you could use any skill you wanted. It was amazingly free and you could get really creative with it. I remember just daydreaming about the kinds of classes I could make. Especially now that I have a legendary bow (Kudzu); of course I want to keep using that weapon because I worked so hard for it and it's beautiful, which means the same five bow skills over...and over...again.

6. Soulbeast and the dagger wielding that came with it are both awful. So disappointed, as my main is a ranger. Base spec continues.

7. Can we get someone to blow up LA again so we can get the old design back? That'd be great.

Seriously though, this game has so much potential. Just a little change could go a long way in creating a more immersive and addictive experience. As it stands, I find myself getting annoyed a little too often for my liking, and I'm unable to feel fully immersed like with other MMOs. If the goal is to make a singleplayer game with a chatbox and other players running around, well, the content just isn't compelling enough to compete with an actual singleplayer game. I know people are very satisfied with how the game is now, and that's great--I'm not trying to ruin it for them. But as someone who generally doesn't post on forums, I just want to chime in and give my own personal thoughts in hopes that they represent others who also aren't so vocal. You can decide to do what you want with them. Cheers.

OP, I think I will be the only one to agree with you in midst of all these people.

I have not played gw1, but I think every single one of your points holds a lot of value for anyone who has played mmos from the early 2000s (aka no one in this thread).

This IS the most asocial mmo I have ever played. Period. There is zero sense of commitment to a guild. Every single time I have joined a guild, I've found most of their members representing elsewhere, jumping around back and forth as it seemed more convenient. Some people might think this is versatile and comfy to their needs, which it is, except it completely destroyed any sense of loyalty for the system. In previous mmos we'd see people who stick with the same clan / guild through good and bad times, always repping them, known players, and it would be a shock if they somehow left or were found in a different one. Here? It doesn't freaking matter! Bonus: all small guilds got murdered in favor of joining mindless blobs of people where you're just another little bunny hopping through guild missions and pointless activities where the main focus might be rewards, content, but rarely bonding.

Join HP train, bounty train, anything train, anything PUG and just kill stuff. People rarely talk, I haven't met a single friend in this manner through 5 years of gw2. Unlucky? maybe, but having the system nullify most interactions in gameplay (as they're deemed unnecessary) doesn't help.

For #2, it's more on how society behaves these days and less on ANet's end. People WILL defend this until the end. We must stop toxicity and elitism, so for that we'll cater to the lowest common denominator, even if that denigrates all of us! We're no better than downstate jim or Never-CC-when-asked lars, and these people who refuse to play better WILL get the same rewards as everybody else. Perfect. Asking them to improve? Not happening. Giving something slightly better to those that excel? Nuh uh. We're in the participation trophy era, let's all be as mediocre as we can, for great justice!

I have a hard time believing people justify #3 lol. Are we playing the same game? Maybe you guys have magical bags that auto-eliminate those annoying ass minor runes and sigils? Or the junk items that literally nobody asked for, and could just be given as liquid copper / silver rewards? Can I buy one of those magic bags plz?

Agreed with #4 as well, though it's not a severe issue. I remember on release, the main argument that people would use against this is that "nobody wants to be peacefully hunting and then suddenly a level 80 comes and nukes the whole area in 1 second". Except, that wouldn't matter because everyone gets participation for doing the most minimal of tagging. Everyone is just so scared of extreme edge cases of toxicity that as a consequence, the game is severely limited in many areas not so that everyone can be happy, but instead so that no one can get sad. And that is sad.

5. I haven't played GW1, but I heard that you could customize your skill bar with the abilities you wanted out of a pool of 40 or so. That sounds wicked man. Customization, possibilities to be unique, obscure builds, etc. Things like that are what make games fun for me. The ability to play a character or class in dozens of different ways. That's not to say gw2 doesn't have that but, it's limited, again. Probably because it's somehow toxic to have to think so much to come up with a working build? Unlikely but hey, that could be the case.

I like weaver and lastly, old LA was superior. This one feels lifeless and has a dumb theme to it lol. I feel for ya though OP, we're a dying breed of mmo fans. Just gotta turn our eyes towards asian mmos, they seem to remain grind happy, too bad they get everything else wrong.

1. On the point of guilds I do agree that this game does lose a sense of community due to the way things are set up, not needing to commit to a guild. Not all players are looking for massive guilds though. Some players absolutely despise the idea of being swallowed up in 500+ guilds so I think it is a little bit of a generalization to say that all players want is big guilds with their bonuses.

A better option I think would be to have more activities involving guilds. There hasn't been a guild mission update in ages and there doesn't seem to be anything on the horizon and that would require dev time and resources.

2. In terms of inconvenience, we have already seen that world with punishment for defeat in GW1. Death Penalty and the possibility of a mission going poorly due to how small your health and magic pool could become. Arenanet was fairly clear from the beginning on the mentality for GW2 and what it means to be defeated. Being defeated is punishment in itself because it means removal from play and loss of a desirable objective. Defeat itself is the punishment. We are asking for a punishment on top of punishment then, which is the world of GW1 and that means runs and missions becoming untenable in the event a player dies too much.

Also I am sorry but you do not get credit for hitting a mob a single time. I have literally done just that and it does not happen. Saying otherwise would be cases of hyperbole. The world of MMO games lives off of the building and support of communities. It doesn't make sense to make your game which has been designed from the ground up, ask many players come together in your game and achieve a goal that cannot be done by a single player, work together and then at the end ask them to fight over the rewards?

Fight over resource nodes? Mob tagging? Loot drops and rolls? We already know that world. It means bots and gold sellers. That world is sitting around and waiting for content to begin because we want to be there first. That's the world where the party spell user gets to roll for rare heavy armor drops and get it just because. Yes maybe you are contributing more that Joe-Schmoe over there just doing AA to win. So what? I am likely to survive and play better in general and less likely to be defeated because I am playing actively.

3. I agree. It's basically a meme for our game. It's not Guild Wars it's Inventory Wars. One way this has been somewhat remedied is with PoF Unidentified Gear. You save so much more space and incentivizes players to either sell off the gear or try and build their magic find. I only wish they would retroactively put those drops in the rest of the game.

4. I understand this sentiment but the way you've expressed your point makes it seem as though it does not happen at all. You definitely can see a difference in power and ease of how quickly mobs can be slain by a player with fully optimized gear vs. one with starter equipment, regardless of scaling. Perhaps satisfaction in this department for GW2 players needs to come from the idea of how easy is this mob, enemy or encounter now compared to when I first did this? I can say I still recall mobs that beat me down the first time I fought them, only to mop the floor with them now even with the same gear. The difference is my experience with the encounter.

5. GW2 has a lot less build diversity to be sure than its predecessor but in GW1 weapons were sometimes an afterthought as we had to rely exclusively on our skill bar to do anything. Weapons were often just there to extend our magic bar as oppose to attacking with them, and that worked because the battle system was not nearly as active. Yes with the way things are we are stuck playing the same way unless we decide to try something else, but the good news is that it means each weapon on each profession has a unique feel to it then as oppose to just being there.

6. I do not really play ranger as much but condition rangers needed a weapon that was not projectile based. That's going to come down to personal play style. You're always welcome to try another weapon set.

7. This is a matter of personal preferences. You'll hear people on both sides on whether or not they like the new LA or the older one.

I see where you're coming from on some of your points but a lot of those things were changed after what would have to be carefully thought out and discussed. GW2 was aiming to break a lot of what was considered the norm in MMOs so there had to be changes and certain aspects of the genre had to be altered or culled away altogether to make it work.

At the very least it seems that this is not your first time stepping away from the game and that fine. That's one of the nice things about it. This one of the easiest MMOs to take breaks from. Your Kudzu will still be the max stats a longbow can have. Your level 80 ranger will still be the highest level a ranger can be. Your gear will still be the max stats when you decided to pick it back up again, or at the very least you can change the stats with relative ease.

I do not agree with OP's points, yet I got the feeling that this game is losing momentum. Most of my alliance members rarely set foot into PoF maps. I regularly check who's on in the guild tab and almost never see anyone in any of the PoF maps. I know, it's only my guild, and you don't have to point out the thousands of players who roam through PoF maps on a daily basis (they don't :P).

So I think the expansion is running out of steam, or already has. I still enjoy fractals and the one or other HoT event. I keep myself busy, right now I'm finally ditching my Thief, out of respect for my guild mates who play fractals and raids with me. With Holosmith, I think I can be more useful and don't be a deterrent for pugs anymore. Another point I am not happy with. Big changes are coming for a class that simply works fine, while there are classes that really need some love. If anyone ever tells me again on these forums that something cannot be done because it would take away developer resources from more important things, I'll remind him that they spent hours over hours reworking a class that nobody had a problem with, that was accepted in every group and that is happily being played by lots of people, basically the most versatile class in this game. And that they will have to spend even more time on it in the future to balance the changes out.

Well, rant over, my guild mates feel the same way, some of them only do fractals and raids these days, or learn a class they haven't played before. But we could have done that before the expansion. It gave us mounts, that's fine. But that's it ^^