Commanding WvW, How to get better?

I am learning to be a good descent commander, while some of the sarcasm and bad talking is annoying, I try and not to get discouraged. What is the best way to learn to command? I have been playing WvW for a long time. I know the basics and in a guild that commands and also been with commanders.

Any suggestions?

I am a n00b when it comes to commanding.

To me the hardest part is getting people to follow you. You will need to build up their confidence in you.

Mix it up- Don't just PPT or look for fights. Keep your group vocally engaged while attacking a structure.

There's a whole bunch more but it depends on your group whether they're experienced or not. Teach them positioning and such.

Yea thats what I intend. Getting camps, smc, talking to my squad, teaching them to stick together, keep close, were better when we are together to take down zergs and camps.

tldr: make a plan, stick to it no matter what people say, and adjust based on the results of your execution.

in steps:

1. plan it in advance and be in voip so you dont have to adlib
2. have a steady schedule. so players will know when to find you.
3. do it in regular intervals. so your followers will grow.
4. reward positive aggressive moves. so your followers learn to fight and defend and master their roles.
5. make iterations over time. so you are able to adapt based on the situation

oOo

what made me well followed is because i am nice and because i am effective. may it help you too, fellow soldier and leader.

You get better the more you do it. And if you tag often enough, pugs will begin to recognize you as a familiar name and join more frequently.

3 basic rules I usually go by are:

1. Never stop talking during a fight, silence is deadly. Encourage your squad members to call out their abilities as well.
2. If we wipe, it's my fault. Never blame the squad when you are the one directing movement.
3. Even if it's not a meta class- I would rather someone join with a class they know, then me ask them to try a class that they dont. They will always play better on something they're familiar with.

And that's seemed to work for me pretty well, at least I think people have fun when they run with me. And I definitely find enjoyment from tagging up.

There are things you need to be careful of, typically they come in this order:

• Being too afraidMeans you are too afraid to lose towers/keeps or the fighting the enemy groups in general. Leading you into too defensive "tower sitting mode". Lot of times enemy shows weakness and you can push them. Sitting on acs is just bad because enemy will just push you and get advantage. Typically zerg that makes the first move during fight, wins it.
• Getting too cockyMaking mistakes yourself, overestimating your numbers. Saying things like "yes we could have won this but you guys suck". Leading you into raging at your allies or being excessively salty towards enemy. It isnt nice attitude to have because it stops you from improving as commander. WHENEVER YOU LOSE A FIGHT, IT IS YOUR FAULT. DON'T FORGET THAT SOME FIGHTS YOU TAKE ONLY FOR FUN, NOT TO WIN. HAVING FUN IS THE KEY TO HAVE PLAYERS THAT ALLOW YOU TO WIN BUT LOSING ISNT FUN.
• Not following other commanders/guildsNow this is what is the thing that separates bad commanders from good ones. Some commanders are just incapable of having fun following someone else than themselves/their guild meaning they become inbred with lot of inherent problems that will never get fixed without outside information. THEY ARE LIKE SUPERADDICTED TO LEADING, MEANING YOU CANT EXPECT ANY IMPROVEMENT FROM THEM. So lets say you have a terrible lead on tuesday inside SM, then you follow a decent commander on wednesday inside SM that does the same thing better and you realise what mistakes you/your guild made. Pay attention to things like movement and how the other commander keeps the people aware on voice comms.. It is very important to point out the important movement in a correct way which can be tune of voice or changing your way of talking. Leading often is also very important, leading regularly like 3-4 times a week while improving from other commanders is essential way of keeping the smart gameplay where you use brains instead of "Hey, I am here, it should be enough to have fun" - attitude.
• Being unaware of things happeningNow there are topics to talk about for fun and otherwise on teamspeak for casual talk. For example the new world change and stuff. So it is important to keep track of them. But this also includes things like knowing which enemy commander/server are you facing, what qualities he has and what is your win condition against them. These are basically things that are constantly changing: Enemy, allied composition, builds, chat, teamspeak, general changes etc. Now this requires ton of knowledge about the gamemode and your server in general like who is reliable player, who do you put in which party etc.
• Being too niceNow, there is still thing called improvement. But lot of commanders are afraid to point out faults in their zerg. Too many rangers? Say it! Melee not on tag? Say it! Got a build spreadsheet? Like metabattle builds? Say it! Now this is typical fault in guilds that play for fun and have like regular raids every week. They stop improving because they just think it is natural to lose to some groups... It is very important to point out when people are performing badly and when you are performing badly. Overly positive attitude makes you unqualified as leader. This also includes putting bad players (no matter how veteran and how much of a friend they are) outside "the good parties".

TLDR; To improve, follow other commanders mistakes/correct movement while still leading yourself. Dont be too nice, even to your friends.Point out errors made during fight, know correct builds. Dont lose your mental balance and start raging/salting at people who are trying their best. Be agressive, dont beat yourself up for losing a fight, but say outloud why you think you lost and how you can win next time. It is not "they were too many". Be confident enough to punish enemy for their mistakes.

Allright here goes my tips and ive been a fighting commander since 2013-2014.

There are a lot of things you have to understand to actualy be good at commanding and one of those things is that you have to know most of the classes good that are mained in zerging. The more clear the overview on how each class works in terms of fights, the easier it will be for you to call skills on an estimation when they might be available. Meaning if you called certain skills at 1 point during a fight then you cant blindly expect the same skill set to be available again when needed if you have no indication at all of the availability, thats why having some overview on classes you order during commanding is vital to know.Honestly the best way to get in touch yourself with this is to play the classes yourself while following an other tag.

One of the other THE MOST important factors that many commanders havent learned nor cant comprehend is that the area aka terrain where you fight is very very important to success. For example if i know that the people following me are playing very melee heavy then for me its telling that in tight/closed areas where there isnt a big wide open field, i will shine with my offensiveness due to enemies being nicely stacked together and i will have the pushing + tanking power due to running melee heavy blob. With this knowledge i know that fighting in towers, keeps is a certain bonus to me and if im not choosing to fight there then on the spot where i meet enemies, ill try to find areas nearby where enemies will be nicely stacked for my melee train, bait them or simply push them there using some light DPS and go in for the vital push.

On the other hand if i have little amount of melees on me but im running with lots of ranged classes then i know that i will have an advantage on open field areas due to having the luxury to have my ranged flank enemies while theyre ignorantly stacked together. I do not keep my ranged stacked in cases like those. In fact keeping your ranged stacked all the time in any case is complete bollocks and any commander that says that they have to be are the ones who fail at commanding. Many commanders are blind to see the difference ranged classes can make when they can constantly flank and play more individually. Many commanders dont often realize that the enemy commanders aim allways for the most stacked up groups and if they see ranged stacked, they will not hesitate to use this position. Ironicaly ive seen many cases over the years of blobs being shred to pieces cause the enemy commanders keeps their blobs stacked tightly while the enemies play roamer style as in play individually, avoid stacking with eachother and poke enemies down 1 by 1 and if the enemy commander aims to go for a push then its futile cause instead of having the option to chase stacked up groups of enemies, he can only chases 1-3 players at a time while being poked down from all sides. So throw out that "everyone stuck on me 24/7" cause any real good commander that understands fights know what a complete bollocks this is.So as i was saying, terrain matters craptons a lot so dont hesitate to pick where you fights. These days there arent many good commanders left at all so many enemy commanders often times fall to the locations you choose to fight.

Dont be afraid to run when needed. For example if you know the enemies have very strong blob and the people following you simply arent that good, organized or your teamspeak numbers are simply crumbling then again choose where you fight - get the enemies in to your map corner where its easier to fight for you. If you get shred slowly then draw the fight closer to your spawn so people can constantly respawn. With this knowledge you know that each enemy you take down, they will spawn at the far side of the map but your people who die, they will spawn and come back to you much much faster so stall the fights to the point where enemies simply die 1 by 1 and you will win due to nearby spawn. Stalling can also be used to hold off an enemy group on a tight area long enough for a 2nd tag to make it to you if you have multiple groups on your side on the map.

Honestly there are just too many ways to fight and it will take forever to write everything down from my experience and knowledge so ill go for the next tips that doesnt involve talking about fighting techniques:

Keep an constant eye on your teamspeak numbers cause as a public commander the number of people present in teamspeak impacts the quality of your blob a lot. So if for example i got 25 in ts and i got a map queue then i know for certain that atleast half of my blob will be utterly clueless on what to do so me getting wiped will be surely guaranteed if enemies themselves have atleast 40 in their teamspeak. Due to this i have to be far more careful where i choose to fight and may have to use cliche cases where enemies will have to push through tight areas where they will be utterly stacked while walking into my dps + warrior bubbles. On the other hand if i have 40 in teamspeak then i have an estimation that far majority of my blob knows what to do and cause of that i have almost full co operation with me and due to this i wont have to take in the risk factor that some of my commanding moves i can use will fail due to people being clueless.

Learn to predict enemy movements during fights. This mostly comes after years of fighting experience and in time it grows bigger. With that said then one other thing is that also give some estimation to the people following you what youre aiming to do before the fight and also give them a countdown when youre gona stack for heals for example. Also saying the healing part, keep eyes open on the people following you constantly on the amount of HP they have cause even if you have full hp and 5-10 melees around you also, your ranged classes may be very low on hp and need that sustain. So dont only think about the classes stacked on you but widen your eyes more. That tip counts the most during a fight when you need to replenish your sustain.

Learn to read the map. By having the map open often times and seeing whats going around there, you can actualy learn to read enemy movements using it. Orange swords as allways are indicators that blobs are present on X area but white swords that keep areas contested can be also read as a sign. In EB its a lot easier to read this but in borderland maps its a bit tougher. But to make things easier then think from enemy side that what would you do if you were them on the map? For example lets say youre playing on Vabbi and the Hills keep is nearby you then you know that in your server often times people want to upgrade that keep to T3 due to the unstoppable defensive options it gives you. So with this knowledge when you switch back to your side you will know that ahah okay Vabbi wants to upgrade this keep and at 1 point they may use a blob to do this. Usualy this example applies mostly for resets.In other words also learn to know your enemies and what they commonly do and based on that you can read the map bit better and also choose next actions to do.

Now in terms of getting people to join teamspeak then sadly thats gona be very hard for new commanders. Many people prefer joining teamspeak on commanders that they know are good. It takes time for commanders themselves to get a following group of their own who will be present there in ts to help you. Though these days its even harder then it used to be due to many WvW players leaving the game over the years cause of anets botching up so often times you have PVE players in WvW who are there for the pips and karma. So due to that attracting in people is tougher cause players these days have different goals and most fighting lovers have gone away.What i can say for certain is that if you have charisma and are fun to be around then getting people to teamspeak is easy but if you dont have and are like me then you have to rely on your knowledge and experience as a commander to make it look like "im the guy who knows and seen shiet, so if you want to get stuff done then its best to be hearing what i got to say". So give it time.

There ofcourse planty more to say but i got to go to work and i doubt many people manage to read this far even lol. Best of luck in your commanding and dont worry, time will give you the knowledge and experience.

Wow thanks for the tips. I want to be a fun commander. Make it enjoyable. Learn from each others mistakes including my own. We all make mistakes, were not perfect, :)

TL;DR create a minstrel/bunker firebrand. Tag up.

Gratz you are now a commander and up there with the top 10 on your server.

Try to use any other class and people will just tell you to tag down or switch to fb.

@Gandalf.1537 said:Wow thanks for the tips. I want to be a fun commander. Make it enjoyable. Learn from each others mistakes including my own. We all make mistakes, were not perfect, :)

good. =) now go and lead. o7

@Dawdler.8521 said:TL;DR create a minstrel/bunker firebrand. Tag up.

Gratz you are now a commander and up there with the top 10 on your server.

Try to use any other class and people will just tell you to tag down or switch to fb.

Mmm... safe observation.

Sb and scourge and dh and herald are good options to.

@Sovereign.1093 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:TL;DR create a minstrel/bunker firebrand. Tag up.

Gratz you are now a commander and up there with the top 10 on your server.

Try to use any other class and people will just tell you to tag down or switch to fb.

no

@Ovalkvadratcylinder.9365 said:

@Sovereign.1093 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:TL;DR create a minstrel/bunker firebrand. Tag up.

Gratz you are now a commander and up there with the top 10 on your server.

Try to use any other class and people will just tell you to tag down or switch to fb.

1/4 commanders are SBs, some of them are scourges and heralds, but u denied their existence, so...

The best team lead i've met in the fields is a sb. =)

Well to each their own.

Don't hesitate too long, it sucks to follow someone who's dodging a fight only to get jumped upon.

First thing to remember, YOU WILL GET YOUR SQUAD KILLED don't stress out over it. As a few others have pointed out, don't stress out about getting killed or getting your zerg killed. It doesn't matter who is at fault in your zerg getting wiped, you still take the blame. I've seen this happen too many times where some pugmander gets upset at the zerg/map about them getting wiped. It just discourages your group, don't play the blame game (it's one thing if you're a hardcore wvw guild, but a pugmander should never get upset at their squad). Every failure is a chance to teach. Be an open squad with open invites, don't be the commander that says "only if you're in voice comms" they're still going to follow you so you might as well have them in squad so you at least know how much supply they have. Another thing to keep in mind that you don't really see too many commanders talking about is your squad's morale, if you keep beating your head against a wall or throwing the enemy zerg your bags you'll eventually start to wear your squad's morale down. Yes you'll lose a few towers but defending a tower that's already breached with 10-25 people against a map blob and just keep coming back and feeding the enemy zerg bags isn't the way to go.

1. Know your server

Know the players know what they tend to run plan accordingly. You should assume that the feedback you get in this thread is as much a reflection of the server they're playing on as the commander himself.

2. Know yourself

Know what you're good at and what you're not good at. My focus is primarily on rotating into good fights. I try to put people in a position where winning is relatively easy first and foremost. Also I'm a more damage oriented commander, one of the few I know of. Most are sustain oriented. I don't know how to play that way so I don't even try to.

3. If you're on Maguuma, don't ever get in coms

The minute you get in coms you're going to be inundated with pointless conversation. People are going to want to be your friend. People are going to want your feedback on their build or whatever other dumb thing. But you're not their friend. You're not there to give people builds. Your job is to put your people in a place where they'll win fights, nothing more nothing less.

4. Keep Trying

Failure is inevitable but it's also the only way anyone ever learns anything. Accept that you will die and that sometimes you will get everyone killed. It's not a big deal just take responsibility and try again.

Co ordinate your tag time with the other world commanders so you don't overlap- if you overlap an already popular comm then you will find people deserting your squad pretty fast.

Try and learn who your reliable scouts are - whether in voice comms or not. Scouts make your job a lot easier as you can base your movement on their reports. Some random blurting out in map 'their zerg is here' isn't that useful, but having a scout report '25 enemy moving east past X' or '15 at X, 3 rams up, gate 80%' or 'map blob at outer se sm, 6 rams up' gives you useful intel. If you have 25 people on you then you know you can engage the first two, the third is a judgement call based on how decent you are at defending and how much siege is around.

Knowing how big and where the enemy are is most of the battle- then learning who your strong and weak players are, who's regularly on around the same time as you, who you can trust to make decent groups within the squad, how decent the general players you have are and how closely they follow directions and how likely are they to run away from fights that you could have won if they had committed.

Also, weekend players are very different to weekday players- as are players at 6pm compared to 11pm (in general). Adapt to the type of player you are likely to get.

@intox.6347 said:

@Ovalkvadratcylinder.9365 said:

@Sovereign.1093 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:TL;DR create a minstrel/bunker firebrand. Tag up.

Gratz you are now a commander and up there with the top 10 on your server.

Try to use any other class and people will just tell you to tag down or switch to fb.

No I simply disagree that any of the classes stated are good to command on, unless you wanna ppt

Find one or two veteran commanders on your server and ask them for advice. I know a lot of commanders who would love to mentor newer commanders. In fact on GoM server we have a "Commander Mentorship" program just for that purpose.

To learn how to be a great commander you need to follow the greats and take what they do best and put it into your commanding package. There is really no commander guide or tutorial video you can watch. Being a PPT commander is ezpz. Being a fight commander is what you should strive for.

@"Ovalkvadratcylinder.9365" said:No I simply disagree that any of the classes stated are good to command on, unless you wanna ppt"I'm only good at commanding on one class, therefore anyone who is good at commanding on other classes shouldn't be doing it, everything is proportional to what I think"

Commanding on a tanky scourge with 3k armour and 30k vitality w/ self-stab while being in the top 5 DPS is a lot more effective than doing 2-4k DPS on a minstrel firebrand while allowing everyone behind you to face-tank damage because you're condi cleansing/healing everything for them. If you get your squad to bomb on-target while your commander bombs at the same time at the very least you will stop them from full-pushing at which point you can swing around to hit their backline and repeat. If you disagree then you haven't tried it or haven't yet seen someone who can pull it off. It's very do-able.

OP, if you want to get good at commanding, all you have to do is tag up on a Friday 1 hour before reset and command badly. I mean, try your very best of course, but just get it over with - command poorly, because if it's your first time doing it, you will, but that's ok, because it's 1 hour to reset and it doesn't matter and very few people will care enough to complain about it. You get better at it by doing it.

Creativity.

While many others can tell you this and that but there is a limited amount of things that will be told to you, a lot of other things will be left out. As a commander, or even as a successful person, one need to be creative, to able to think in different ways possible to achieve one goal. Note that you will have numerous goals as a commander, or even as a person.

Congrats on effort to be good commander :) Don't let people discourage , just learn and move on! Having said that here is just one thing that is very important that separates a good commander from a bad one and that is Positioning. Knowing where to be and when to be there is the key :) Good luck and keep it up!

ive seen a commander do well on a bunker staff daredevil, you can command on anything if people have faith in you. I would stick to a meta build for commanding though so ppl can build up their trust in you.