Thief Balance Patch Notes — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Thief Balance Patch Notes

arenta.2953arenta.2953 Member ✭✭✭

Thief

We felt that the current offering of stolen items wasn't scaling well enough with the difficulty of raid bosses, so we added a selection of new stolen items that have effects tailored to the needs of a raid party. The deadeye's malice generation, while appropriate for normal enemies, ended up scaling poorly against larger bosses with lots of health. Losing malice because of a mark time-out in a long fight felt disappointing, so we updated Deadeye's Mark to preserve malice stacks when marking the same target again. We also increased the power of several rifle skills to account for the higher health of PvE enemies.

Consume Plasma (Stolen Skill): This skill now grants alacrity for 3 seconds in addition to its previous boons.
Deadeye's Mark: This skill no longer drains malice when marking the same target again. Reduced the recharge from 30 seconds to 25 seconds. Increased the mark duration from 25 seconds to 30 seconds.
Deadly Aim: Increased damage in PvE by 25%.
Spotter's Shot: Increased damage in PvE by 21%.
Three Round Burst: Increased damage in PvE by 15%.
Death's Judgment: Scaling per malice increased from 15% to 20% in PvE.
Bountiful Theft: This trait will now grant alacrity to nearby allies for 3 seconds if it removes alacrity from enemies.
Fire for Effect: Reduced internal cooldown on this trait from 1 second to 0.5 seconds to better sync with stolen-skill recharge.

The steal table has been updated with raid-specific skills in raid areas of the game. These skills are as follows and have been placed on certain creatures and bosses throughout each section:
*Unstable Artifact: Shadowstep to an area and deliver a large immobilizing strike. If a downed ally is in your targeted area, you will instead shadowstep that ally to your location and partially revive them.
*Detonate Plasma: Activate this skill to apply many boons to nearby allies.
*Soul Stone Venom: Use a corrupted soul stone to immediately remove all conditions from nearby allies, converting each unique condition removed into an instance of Soul Stone Venom on that ally. When attacking while this venom is active, an additional strike that's sourced from the applying thief will be applied to all of your successful hits.
*Magnetic Bomb: Throw a magnetic bomb that continuously damages and pulls enemies to a point.


Quite the dmg boost for PvE
Sadly not much change for PvP....oh well i'll take this as a win

<1

Comments

  • No nerfs! =D

  • arenta.2953arenta.2953 Member ✭✭✭

    @omgdracula.6345 said:
    No nerfs! =D

    yep. no pvp buffs.
    but no pvp nerfs. so win =D

    bad news is....mesmer still gonna mind wrack slaughter us X.x (unless i misunderstood their patch notes)

  • dDuff.3860dDuff.3860 Member ✭✭✭

    I'm unhappy about changes.
    Like really, PvE buffs?.

  • arenta.2953arenta.2953 Member ✭✭✭

    @dDuff.3860 said:
    I'm unhappy about changes.
    Like really, PvE buffs?.

    to be fair, we needed it.
    with our lack of pierces, unblockables, AoEs, and loss of our mobility. our dmg really was reduced compared to other range.

    so this will really help in PvE (though i still say we should have gotten a pulsing stability on kneel)

    but it isn't going to help us at all in PvP =/
    pitty they didn't touch it at all for that..

  • MUDse.7623MUDse.7623 Member ✭✭✭✭

    permanent max malice could be fun if you want to annoy people in WvW ..

    read this, become a better player now.

  • Theocraft.6053Theocraft.6053 Member ✭✭✭

    maybe now I won't be ashamed of using my fav DE rifle in instanced PvE

  • Turk.5460Turk.5460 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Great buff for me in WvW with the Malice loss removed upon remark. The Malice stacks have always been secondary to the Mug/Bountiful Theft/Daze/Stun for me, in which I use Mercy liberally for - now I will retain the growing damage to finish off the targets quicker!

    Fort Aspenwood
    Jekkies

  • arenta.2953arenta.2953 Member ✭✭✭

    @MUDse.7623 said:
    permanent max malice could be fun if you want to annoy people in WvW ..

    still no stability though =(

    even the buff to consume plasma doesn't help as we don't get that as a steal option =(

  • Elxdark.9702Elxdark.9702 Member ✭✭✭

    flanking strike untouched, deadeye buff no nerf to daredevil, plasma buffed again, condi mirage deleted.

    best patch

    Trash NA thief HITZER
    twitch

  • MUDse.7623MUDse.7623 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 6, 2018

    @arenta.2953 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:
    permanent max malice could be fun if you want to annoy people in WvW ..

    still no stability though =(

    even the buff to consume plasma doesn't help as we don't get that as a steal option =(

    yes but now you can run a s/x DE build with swindlers equilibrium without losing the damage bonus, wich is nice. or trickery..

    read this, become a better player now.

  • @Elxdark.9702 said:
    flanking strike untouched, deadeye buff no nerf to daredevil, plasma buffed again, condi mirage deleted.

    best patch

    Yeah, I was pretty shocked flanking strike was untouched.

  • arenta.2953arenta.2953 Member ✭✭✭

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @arenta.2953 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:
    permanent max malice could be fun if you want to annoy people in WvW ..

    still no stability though =(

    even the buff to consume plasma doesn't help as we don't get that as a steal option =(

    yes but now you can run a s/x DE build with swindlers equilibrium without losing the damage bonus, wich is nice. or trickery..

    true. very true =D

    though i'm more surprised Pistol Whip wasn't touched xD as spammable as ever

  • Imperadordf.2687Imperadordf.2687 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Get ready peeps
    Get ready for the “Dedaye too Opee nerf plz it oneshotz me evrytim” from plebs of WvW.

    This is the only patch we’ve had without Thief nerfs in like.. a long time.

  • @arenta.2953 said:

    @omgdracula.6345 said:
    No nerfs! =D

    yep. no pvp buffs.
    but no pvp nerfs. so win =D

    bad news is....mesmer still gonna mind wrack slaughter us X.x (unless i misunderstood their patch notes)

    Actually, the Malice change is a PvP and WvW buff too.

  • This.... this is beautifull... An actuall thief buff without any hidden nerfs... oh glorious day i thought you'd never come! Praise the heavens (and the devs)

    Born of graves and left below
    Painted ashes, painted snow
    When the dark awakens
    Fires of our hope are getting low.

  • arenta.2953arenta.2953 Member ✭✭✭

    @Imperadordf.2687 said:
    Get ready peeps
    Get ready for the “Dedaye too Opee nerf plz it oneshotz me evrytim” from plebs of WvW.

    This is the only patch we’ve had without Thief nerfs in like.. a long time.

    anyone who says that can go meet insta death mesmer mindwrack <.<

  • Imperadordf.2687Imperadordf.2687 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @arenta.2953 said:

    @Imperadordf.2687 said:
    Get ready peeps
    Get ready for the “Dedaye too Opee nerf plz it oneshotz me evrytim” from plebs of WvW.

    This is the only patch we’ve had without Thief nerfs in like.. a long time.

    anyone who says that can go meet insta death mesmer mindwrack <.<

    Well, yeah but I’m not upset about those Mesmer changes since I main Mesmer too :P

    But I think Death’s Judgement will be almost always max. damage if I understood the patch notes correctly. Otherwise, I’m so happy Thief didn’t get nerfed for once.

  • They forgot to address the Perfectionist issue with this perma-max malice change.

  • arenta.2953arenta.2953 Member ✭✭✭

    @Iyomi.5374 said:
    They forgot to address the Perfectionist issue with this perma-max malice change.

    good point

    will using mark when you maxed immediately give it to you......or will it have a background counter

    or do you not get it...

  • TwiceDead.1963TwiceDead.1963 Member ✭✭✭

    @arenta.2953 said:

    @Iyomi.5374 said:
    They forgot to address the Perfectionist issue with this perma-max malice change.

    good point

    will using mark when you maxed immediately give it to you......or will it have a background counter

    or do you not get it...

    You only get it once per max-malice stack. If you want it again, you have to reset your stack.

  • @arenta.2953 said:

    @Iyomi.5374 said:
    They forgot to address the Perfectionist issue with this perma-max malice change.

    good point

    will using mark when you maxed immediately give it to you......or will it have a background counter

    or do you not get it...

    Tried it while killing a TM, I retained all malice but it never procced again after the initial one.

  • MrForz.1953MrForz.1953 Member ✭✭✭

    @Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:
    I no longer feel like I am forced to commit into a bad situation in WvW thanks to the malice changes! I can just follow them around while they nervously shuffle. Death is patient. Death comes on swift wings. And death... always gets the last laugh you bastards.

    Yeah, that is, if your target hasn't cleaned the camp and left somewhere else. :bleep_bloop:

    Disgruntled Charr Engineer and Pirate - Jade Quarry

  • Sir Vincent III.1286Sir Vincent III.1286 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 6, 2018

    When reading the patch note, I don't just look at the changes to the Thief rather what changes to other professions that will affect the Thief. Thus, regardless of the (lack of) nerf directed at the Thief, Mesmer will continue to overshadow this profession. The changes to Mesmer is just insane. I can have 3 clones and 3 phantasms at the same time, shatter the clones before the phantasm breaks, then shatter again. With Chronomancer, the Mesmer can cycle through all shatters really well. So why bring the Thief again? /facepalm

    I'm happy for the Mesmer since this is a very nice upgrade, but I guess the Thief will have to warm the bench longer.

    Edit: thoughts were faster than my fingers

    Thief F1 must remain an instacast Steal skill. DE will simply apply DE Mark on target on Steal.
    Malice build-up independently from DE Mark. Mark only speed up the build-up, not be the pre-requisite.
    http://sirvincentiii.com ~ In the beginning...there was Tarnished Coast...

  • Finally the Deadeye has been added to the game. Welcome, Deadeye!

  • arenta.2953arenta.2953 Member ✭✭✭

    @Kain Francois.4328 said:
    Finally the Deadeye has been added to the game. Welcome, Deadeye!

  • Has P/P thief also benefited from this or mainly rifle?

  • saerni.2584saerni.2584 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Deadeye generally gets the buffs to Deadeye Mark and Consume Plasma if running core.

    Malice does improve base damage somewhat so P/P benefits from 100% uptime. In PvE the rifle buffs may outshine the ability of P/P to do DPS though—but that remains to be parsed.

    Northern Shiverpeaks (NSP)
    Deadeye (Thief)
    Commandant of P/D and Apex Predator

  • @saerni.2584 said:
    Deadeye generally gets the buffs to Deadeye Mark and Consume Plasma if running core.

    Malice does improve base damage somewhat so P/P benefits from 100% uptime. In PvE the rifle buffs may outshine the ability of P/P to do DPS though—but that remains to be parsed.

    Yea i am mainly interested in PVE. I guess will have to wait till someone test it out. Thnx for info :)

  • Tails.9372Tails.9372 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 6, 2018

    @saerni.2584 said:
    In PvE the rifle buffs may outshine the ability of P/P to do DPS though

    Not even close, +20% might sound like much but it really isn't. P/P does still more dmg overall and is more cost effective.

  • saerni.2584saerni.2584 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I’m just waiting for some benchmarks. I agree that P/P is likely higher damage due to initiative refund on Unload.

    Northern Shiverpeaks (NSP)
    Deadeye (Thief)
    Commandant of P/D and Apex Predator

  • @arenta.2953 said:

    @Kain Francois.4328 said:
    Finally the Deadeye has been added to the game. Welcome, Deadeye!

    I demand the name of the artist!

  • Aplier.7829Aplier.7829 Member ✭✭✭

    @saerni.2584 said:
    I’m just waiting for some benchmarks. I agree that P/P is likely higher damage due to initiative refund on Unload.

    My P/P sustained dps with deadeye pre-patch was topping out around 22k. Other people have been hitting around 30k dps with realistic buffs from kneeling rifle. I dont have a computer in front of me to test P/P now but I can state for a fact that its not gaining more than 25% dps just from the mark/malice changes (which accounts for roughly a 4-5% average dps increase for P/P).

    On the other hand this is still a small net buff to P/P, and it sustains that damage regardless of positioning or movement, which is really the only reason for a thief to run a ranged build in raids, whereas Rifle really only does it's max damage while it can stay rooted in place.

  • @Aplier.7829 said:

    @saerni.2584 said:
    I’m just waiting for some benchmarks. I agree that P/P is likely higher damage due to initiative refund on Unload.

    My P/P sustained dps with deadeye pre-patch was topping out around 22k. Other people have been hitting around 30k dps with realistic buffs from kneeling rifle. I dont have a computer in front of me to test P/P now but I can state for a fact that its not gaining more than 25% dps just from the mark/malice changes (which accounts for roughly a 4-5% average dps increase for P/P).

    This is the reason;
    Deadly Aim: Increased damage in PvE by 25%.
    Spotter's Shot: Increased damage in PvE by 21%.
    Three Round Burst: Increased damage in PvE by 15%.
    Death's Judgment: Scaling per malice increased from 15% to 20% in PvE.

    The auto-attack alone is a big bump to DPS.

    Thief F1 must remain an instacast Steal skill. DE will simply apply DE Mark on target on Steal.
    Malice build-up independently from DE Mark. Mark only speed up the build-up, not be the pre-requisite.
    http://sirvincentiii.com ~ In the beginning...there was Tarnished Coast...

  • arenta.2953arenta.2953 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 7, 2018

    @Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:

    @arenta.2953 said:

    @Kain Francois.4328 said:
    Finally the Deadeye has been added to the game. Welcome, Deadeye!

    I demand the name of the artist!

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/20119/gold-commissions-offering-sketch-busts

    they freaking epic

  • Kinda sad they didn't directly buff traits like Maleficent Seven slightly to bring it up on par with BQoBK. But no nerfs for the first time after a patch is a win.

  • Link.1049Link.1049 Member ✭✭✭

    @omgdracula.6345 said:
    No nerfs! =D

    It was a nerf by inaction.

  • Cynz.9437Cynz.9437 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 7, 2018

    From pvp stand point:
    I agree with Sir Vincent, buffs/nerfs to other classes affect us too. Mes gonna be an issue. So do druids/sb.
    Also i actually see alacrity on plasma as semi nerf to a thief because it does nothing for weapon skills (doesn't affect ini regen) and doesn't help you much if you run improv anyway. Surely it helps to get steal back faster but all honestly, who uses steal off-Cd every time?
    On other hand it is another boon we gain that can be corrupted so, imo, it is indirect buff to necros and anything with boon corruption.

    More so, yet another patch that dumps everything into steal. Is anyone else tired of relying on steal so heavily? You land steal -> you might win; you don't land steal -> might as well run. The spell is so overloaded and so important for the thief that it overshadows every other spell thief has. I personally don't find this dependency on steal so great.

    GW is P2Win. We are always lied to.

  • TiNG.3964TiNG.3964 Member ✭✭

    No changes to cloak and dagger being made unblockable makes me sad.

  • Despond.2174Despond.2174 Member ✭✭✭

    I appreciate the rifle buffs, but PP is still better from what I've read and tested plus it's smoother gameplay. I'll be sticking to PP if I am using DE for now, but maybe I've missed something, we'll see.
    I have to leave, a power mesmer is after me! flees

  • arenta.2953arenta.2953 Member ✭✭✭

    @Despond.2174 said:
    I appreciate the rifle buffs, but PP is still better from what I've read and tested plus it's smoother gameplay. I'll be sticking to PP if I am using DE for now, but maybe I've missed something, we'll see.
    I have to leave, a power mesmer is after me! flees

    .....kitten mesmer <.<
    goes back to whispering "Nerf Mesmer" to Anet employees in their sleep

  • saerni.2584saerni.2584 Member ✭✭✭✭

    So the changes to Malice make getting a max Malice Binding Shadow easier. In other words, 3 second knockdown with a 50–70% duration increase is more consistent. Saving BS for full Malice is no longer a short predictable window opening up more options.

    The quality of life on Mark with 25 second cooldown and 30 second duration is nice in this regard. That said you do need to remark within the five seconds or you lose Malice like normal.

    Not too many changes directly for us but a few observations.

    Mesmer: need to play a very careful burst, hit and stealth. Power shatter hurts if they have time to react. Probably not a good team fighter if there is enough AoE pressure to kill those clones.

    Scourge: easier now but how much easier is still wip.

    Weaver: watch for the DBZ burst. Little animation where they build up then flash to you. Hits like a truck upwards of 40k if everything connects. Squishy, but can obliterate even bunkers in one burst. Have to be careful if they are running this build. Otherwise, wait out the evades and cut down their hp.

    Holo: still strong and good damage. But not sure how well it will survive. Top billing also means getting focused and Holo isn’t that survivable.

    Druid/SB: still nice sustain on Druid but it was never oppressive unless you had too many support and not enough DPS to focus them down. Same target for thief.

    Warrior/SB: still strong if well played. Hard to say too much while meta works itself out and people decide whether SB is good for fighting power mes (which barring a post-patch nerf will be important for at least a few weeks).

    Revenant: Not sure if the “nerf” to this matters. Anet will revert some of it after an outcry and the rest were buffs. No idea if this addresses the problems average players have but...a good Rev is strong and an average Rev is not great. So much comes down to skill that I won’t predict much for them at this point.

    Guardian: saw a few DH and one FB so far. Really not sure if the sustain changes did enough but will need to see more to decide. I think we may see more DH just because the Scourge meta is less oppressive. Deadeye faces more trouble here because DH has good projectile denial and counter projectiles.

    Still with the burst meta going strong I feel bunkers will be fighting an uphill battle the rest of the season.

    Northern Shiverpeaks (NSP)
    Deadeye (Thief)
    Commandant of P/D and Apex Predator

  • Turk.5460Turk.5460 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @saerni.2584 said:

    Scourge: easier now but how much easier is still wip.

    If you're referring to solo, they continue to be a free bag for Rifle DE's, just as they were before the patch xD

    Fort Aspenwood
    Jekkies

  • AikijinX.6258AikijinX.6258 Member ✭✭✭

    Am I missing something? Im in WvW and I just tried seeing if malice stacks would stay after both:

    Using mercy at full stacks, on same target (Malice stack refreshed)
    And
    Marking target, and waiting for malice timer to run out. (Malice stacks refreshed)

    Also on the Mark tool tip, it does not say anything about Malice remaining?, did they not update tool tip

  • Turk.5460Turk.5460 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @AikijinX.6258 said:
    Am I missing something? Im in WvW and I just tried seeing if malice stacks would stay after both:

    Using mercy at full stacks, on same target (Malice stack refreshed)
    And
    Marking target, and waiting for malice timer to run out. (Malice stacks refreshed)

    Also on the Mark tool tip, it does not say anything about Malice remaining?, did they not update tool tip

    I don't think it was intended for Malice stacks to remain after the mark is gone. Meaning if your target is not marked again while they are still currently marked then you will lose your stacks. And since Mercy removes the mark from your target completely, it functions the same as if you let the 30s mark timer run out on your target. It would be awesome if mercy/remark retained your stacks, but I don't think that's what they wanted from this.

    Fort Aspenwood
    Jekkies

  • reddie.5861reddie.5861 Member ✭✭✭

    thief got nothing unless ur going into PvE mode, even a nerf would make me more happier then the "balance" patch i just saw..

    thief is so beyond kitten nowadays compare to other classes, yes we can still kill etc. but we have to be FAR FAR more aware of situation compare to most other toons out there that just go like yolo and run tru everything.

  • Turk.5460Turk.5460 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @reddie.5861 said:
    thief got nothing unless ur going into PvE mode, even a nerf would make me more happier then the "balance" patch i just saw..

    thief is so beyond kitten nowadays compare to other classes, yes we can still kill etc. but we have to be FAR FAR more aware of situation compare to most other toons out there that just go like yolo and run tru everything.

    Eh, maybe if you're D/P or P/D. But Thieves can YOLO pretty effectively as S/D, Rifle and Staff. Sure it's not as brainless as SpellBreaker, but I wouldn't say we need to be FAR more aware...

    Fort Aspenwood
    Jekkies

  • arenta.2953arenta.2953 Member ✭✭✭

    @Turk.5460 said:

    @reddie.5861 said:
    thief got nothing unless ur going into PvE mode, even a nerf would make me more happier then the "balance" patch i just saw..

    thief is so beyond kitten nowadays compare to other classes, yes we can still kill etc. but we have to be FAR FAR more aware of situation compare to most other toons out there that just go like yolo and run tru everything.

    Eh, maybe if you're D/P or P/D. But Thieves can YOLO pretty effectively as S/D, Rifle and Staff. Sure it's not as brainless as SpellBreaker, but I wouldn't say we need to be FAR more aware...

    eh....i wouldn't say you can yolo with a rifle.

    because you gotta kneel for the full dmg, and for that its best to have some distance.

    then again....yolo doesn't imply success xD

  • Turk.5460Turk.5460 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @arenta.2953 said:

    @Turk.5460 said:

    @reddie.5861 said:
    thief got nothing unless ur going into PvE mode, even a nerf would make me more happier then the "balance" patch i just saw..

    thief is so beyond kitten nowadays compare to other classes, yes we can still kill etc. but we have to be FAR FAR more aware of situation compare to most other toons out there that just go like yolo and run tru everything.

    Eh, maybe if you're D/P or P/D. But Thieves can YOLO pretty effectively as S/D, Rifle and Staff. Sure it's not as brainless as SpellBreaker, but I wouldn't say we need to be FAR more aware...

    eh....i wouldn't say you can yolo with a rifle.

    because you gotta kneel for the full dmg, and for that its best to have some distance.

    then again....yolo doesn't imply success xD

    With Rifle I mean just running and spamming mark/2/3. Not leaping into the fray like a holosmith. With SS, Withdraw, RFI, and Shadow Meld we've got some great avoidance when someone notices us pew pewing their beloved Firebrands and Scourges.

    Fort Aspenwood
    Jekkies

  • arenta.2953arenta.2953 Member ✭✭✭

    @Turk.5460 said:

    @arenta.2953 said:

    @Turk.5460 said:

    @reddie.5861 said:
    thief got nothing unless ur going into PvE mode, even a nerf would make me more happier then the "balance" patch i just saw..

    thief is so beyond kitten nowadays compare to other classes, yes we can still kill etc. but we have to be FAR FAR more aware of situation compare to most other toons out there that just go like yolo and run tru everything.

    Eh, maybe if you're D/P or P/D. But Thieves can YOLO pretty effectively as S/D, Rifle and Staff. Sure it's not as brainless as SpellBreaker, but I wouldn't say we need to be FAR more aware...

    eh....i wouldn't say you can yolo with a rifle.

    because you gotta kneel for the full dmg, and for that its best to have some distance.

    then again....yolo doesn't imply success xD

    With Rifle I mean just running and spamming mark/2/3. Not leaping into the fray like a holosmith. With SS, Withdraw, RFI, and Shadow Meld we've got some great avoidance when someone notices us pew pewing their beloved Firebrands and Scourges.

    true...but without stability you always gotta be a bit cautious as it can quickly go to kitten xD

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