Thermal Vision discussion and questions

A new trait was added called Thermal Vision, it gives:

• 5% more damage
• 180 expertise

It seems to be on the same tier PPD and No Scope are so my main questions are:

• Is it a condition damage modifier?, a power damage modifier with expertise would make little sense and you get a power trait on that tier already.
• If it isn't a condi damage mod, why would you say it shouldn't be?, it would be a direct upgrade on No Scope since 5% mod >> 150 Ferocity.

Really hope it is a condi mod, else thats just retarded, idk...

Even if it affects condi - it is in the same line as pinpoint distribution. They should have put it in explosives adept or master traits.

edit: either switch it with Aim Assisted Rocket, or merge it with Glass Cannon. I'd take this over Short fuse :'(

hybrid. I think it's intended for hybrid play.

Currently condi engi gets to like 92% condition duration without expertise infusions - with this trait, it would be about 100%.

So to me it looks like they tried to bridge that gap, which would have ben perfect (especially if the %increase would be condi).But since that thing has to compete with pinpoint that is rather meh.

Edit: nvm its 12% condidurationwhatever the 5% will bring selfish power holo up to 35k and not affect condi builds at all+alacrity change fucks condi engi rota :(

GG

Ah and yes, hybrid is probably what they want - since you have to drop modified ammunition to take incendiary ammo.

You could use it with either power or condi but primarily I'd use it with power, with the expertise giving a minor increase to bleeding duration on top of the existing 33%. Works out to be an extra second on Blunderbuss's bleed and 1/4 second on the Sharpshooter minor trait.

Rifle + FT. It will work with my hybrid build.

^^ That's for sure. In fact, if you have been watching the changes, it's clear Anet is pushing some builds to a mix of power/condi, not just one or the other. My speculation? It's on purpose to give more effectiveness between swapping kits and weapons.

I think the big choice for players is if you want to proc a boon or just get a flat damage increase. There are some reasons to do either, so I think it's rather NICE that you get two damage traits in the same spot that allow you this choice.

Imho it should have been added on explosives or another not so heavily contested tier, PPD and No Scope are there too, but will wait and see how things develop and what benchmarks say. Hybrid won't be a thing if the hybrid traits are competing with each other, that's the particular case of modified and incendiary ammo.

Now we got no rifle trait... Would be nice if they added rifle to the pistol trait, it is not like you can use both at the same time anyway.

UPDATE: Seems the buff is a flat 5% power AND condi increase. May be the time to say....

WELCOME BACK 4 kit Vanilla condi engi!

Well, if they put it in place of something in explosives (adept or master).But i cant see why you would take a condi engi with this trait over a power holo with it..

@Geisterlicht.6083 said:Well, if they put it in place of something in explosives (adept or master).But i cant see why you would take a condi engi with this trait over a power holo with it..

180 expertise is 12% duration, you get 45% duration on burning and bleeding just from traits (kinda similar to how condi warrior is right now), then you add in the mod for condi damage and I think that alone is good enough to push vanilla condi engi into the 35-36k DPS threshold though it may be higher, and it kitten deserves to be there.

I think the alacrity nerf hit condi engi rather hard.I dont think it will be higher than 32k-33k.Ofc i would be more than happy if your numbers are correct. :)

Okay. Today i did a few test runs for condi holo, and it looks like it got trashed.

With the old setup i now get about 30.6k on a consistent basis (down from 31.8k), with grind probably 31k (previously 32.2k).With adjusted gear + Thermal Vision i now get up to 31.5k, but thats it.I do not feel like grinding, since for me its obvious that its gotten worse than before.

I have not tested vanilla condi engi, but i am certain it wont be much better - maybe 1.5k more than cHolo, since it had more auto attacks in its rotation.

rip

edit: (cHolo used no auto attacks, guess that is why it lost so much dmg through the alacrity nerf)

@spiritualabyss.7016 said:Okay. Today i did a few test runs for condi holo, and it looks like it got trashed.

With the old setup i now get about 30.6k on a consistent basis (down from 31.8k), with grind probably 31k (previously 32.2k).With adjusted gear + Thermal Vision i now get up to 31.5k, but thats it.I do not feel like grinding, since for me its obvious that its gotten worse than before.

I have not tested vanilla condi engi, but i am certain it wont be much better - maybe 1.5k more than kitten, since it had more auto attacks in its rotation.

rip

edit: (kitten used no auto attacks, guess that is why it lost so much dmg through the alacrity nerf)

Condi Holo is a meme though. Not sure how you get less DPS either if no other trait or weapon skill got changed and the ones that did got buffed, and thermal vision is overall bigger DPS than PPD.

@Lunateric.3708 said:

@spiritualabyss.7016 said:Okay. Today i did a few test runs for condi holo, and it looks like it got trashed.

With the old setup i now get about 30.6k on a consistent basis (down from 31.8k), with grind probably 31k (previously 32.2k).With adjusted gear + Thermal Vision i now get up to 31.5k, but thats it.I do not feel like grinding, since for me its obvious that its gotten worse than before.

I have not tested vanilla condi engi, but i am certain it wont be much better - maybe 1.5k more than kitten, since it had more auto attacks in its rotation.

rip

edit: (kitten used no auto attacks, guess that is why it lost so much dmg through the alacrity nerf)

Alacrity got nerfed. And condi engi relied heavily on it since he almost did no aa. Now you have to do much more aa's per rotation so its just not worth it anymore. Thermal vision directly competes with ppd. It ends up that the alacrity nerf hurts more than the gain from Thermal Vision.

It's usefull to flamethrower, lazer disc, pistol, rifle, photon forge, bomb, grenades and incendiary powder.Make easiest get 100% burn duration, for example.