Personal Feedback to 06.02. patch

I know, the final result from this Balance pitch will firstly shown after some weeks of testing, but this patch already hurt. And there is much more that hurt necromancers i want to say.But lets start with the patch notes:

Scourge: Added a 0.5-second warning to enemy players on each shade and on the player when activating a shade skill.

compare to other classes (thief, mesm, ele, etc.) that also have instant casts i dont know why this scourge skills get very very predictable while the some other classes still may insta burst you down. thiefes and mesmers that one shot you out of invis and still able to do tha WHILE being invul or invis...you are on necromancer the slowliest class, without blocks invuls etc. and your skills are everytime so predictable that every newish Player already can easily dodge it.

Feed from Corruption: This trait now grants 3 seconds of alacrity when corrupting alacrity from a foe.

a trait that no one Plays because wvw and pvp Player Need greater shades to be able just 1 target. the small shades are not viable against very mobile classes that ez move out of your small circles.

Vampiric Presence: The power contribution from the necromancer to the damage portion of this trait has been increased by about 1,200%. The healing-power contribution from the necromancer has been increased by about 560%. The functionality of this trait has been modified and currently increases its effectiveness by 100% when in shroud. This effect now has a 0.5-second cooldown.

why an internal cooldown that take down the buffs you gave that trait? finally its in the same state like before. maybe a little bit weaker because of that icd.

Sand Swell: Increased the speed of the portal's formation once the skill has been cast, and altered the effect so it doesn't get culled when in high-density situations.

necromancer have so bad lf reg that they Need their Utility skills for lf reg. sand swell is a 900 range port with 35 sec cooldown. look thief shortbow 5 that have max cd ( because of initiative reg) of 6 sec. mesmer blinck have just 30 sec cd + stunbreak + without casttime + 1200 range. i can continue that on many classes. sand swell is a very weak Version of other classes ports.

Nefarious Favor: Reduced the number of conditions converted to boons from 2 to 1 in all game modes. Increased the cooldown of this skill from 8 seconds to 10 seconds in WvW and PvP.

THAT i really dont understand. i think NO one complaint about HUGE scourge condi removals. your patchnotes Showed us that you try to move scourge from DD-Space to Supporter-Space. but this note is the exactly opposite. unnessecary and also a havy nerf to scourge.

Path of Corruption: Reduced the number of boons converted to conditions from 2 to 1 when coupled with the scourge specialization.maybe needed, but where is the compensation for that? scourge have just 1 defense mechanic. thats barrier. barrier is a mechanic where you have to predict enemies attacks to negate dmg. and furthermore barrier negate less dmg than most other sustain skills in the game (like endure pain, sigill of Stone, distortion etc.)

Sand Cascade: Increased the cooldown of this skill from 8 seconds to 10 seconds. Increased the barrier granted by this skill by 15%.

this is a good example for compensation i spoke above.

Punishment Skills: The torment durations of this skill category have been reduced from 10 seconds to 8 seconds. The cripple duration has been reduced from 3 seconds to 2 seconds.

most punishment skills are so weak that i personally dont Play them. i only Play Trail of anguish, for stunbreak+stability, not for cripple and torment and ghastly breach. so i think this nerf dont hit the scourge very hard.

Bugfixes:

Abrasive Grit: Fixed a bug that prevented this trait from granting might and cleansing a condition on allies who already have barrier.Unending Corruption: Fixed a bug in which Manifest Sand Shade was not updated to reflect the boon conversion from this trait.

Here i dont understand why no changes to the obstructed bug. you told us you are investigating some other Solutions to make shades more viable in free Terrain. on the walls in wvw ele Meteors does way more dmg than scourges ever did.

To sum up:Booncorrupt get reduced.the possibility for scourge to Counter high mobility, fast casting classes decrease to 0. the "warning time" on sand shades + the amount of invuls and blocks and dodges and mobility other classes have bring scourge in a big disadvantage for 1 on 1 Scenarios.

If i watch to the 4 Major game modes in the game (PvE, WvW Small Scale, WvW Zerg and sPvP):

in PvE still useless. cause i see no buffs for that.

wvw smalls scale is dominated by mobility, sustain and burst dmg.in mobility necro is the last class.in sustain necros have barrier (7k), all other classes have invuls blocks, dodges and more for negate 50,60,70k dmg Spikes from enemy Teams. so necro is again in a big disadvantage.burst dmg is reduced since 12.12.scourge is useless in any 1 on 1 or 2 on 2 Situation.

in wvw zergs scourge will be stills trong because there are spiking 20 scourges at once one Point. the "stacked" dmg of 20 People against 5 People at that Position is still strong. but revenants, warriors, eles etc. have same amount of AOE dmg like scourge + way more Support (rev glint form, ele heal and booncast). so i dont udnerstand nerfes because of any zerg Situation because there are also other OP skills in zergfights (rev hammer, ele Meteor) that didnt get nerfed.

in sPvP scourges needed Babysitters and now Need more Babysitters.if you have a good Team you can be strong otherwise you are free baggy.

IMO anet destroyed last viable necro in the game. because reaper is still not viable in comparison to mesmers, thiefes, warriors, holosmiths, rangers.reaper have the same amount of dmg like the other classes.other classes have a lot of invuls, blocks, dodges for sustain. reaper shroud decayed very fast and cant take that dmg invuls, blocks, dodges can negate.

necros are in a big disantvantage in sustain...

an what about heal? vampiric presence isnt beter than before... the only real heal power necros have is their heal skill. 4k heal every 25-30 sec? every other class in the game has more heal.the most heal does necros have on conditions with vampiric contagion. but while anet reducing the dmg Output of condi necs, they also reduce the the sustain heavily.

compensation could be e.g. 15 % heal from condi dmg on that trait. but this patch brought nothing of those compensations.

like some one wrote in another thread, weapons are a big Problem of necros. because weapons mainly Regenerate LF. in comparison to other classes weapons, necros weapons have a very small amount of dmg (except axe). most classes have mobility and suatin on weapons, necro only lf reg.also necro weapons works terrible, just watch to staff 1 or Focus 4 that have a range of 1200 but cant be realistic used for a range above 400 range.you also cant use half of necromancer skills against downed enemies, marks dont work, fear dont work, booncorrupt dont work against downed enemies.

i see very OP mesmers get a rework instead of nerf. very OP thiefes dont get nerfes in mobility or dmg. OP ele Meteor didnt get nerfed. OP warrior sustain didnt get nerfed. holosmith dmg didnt get nerfed. OP rev hammer didnt get nerfed. why they nerfed ONLY scourge?

IMO this Balance patch Shows what Balance is about:anet is a company to make Money, most People complaint about scourge, so its correct for a company to nerf the "Problem" out of the game for customer success. so Balance is not for bringing classes on an equal lvl, its for customer success.

i am a roamer and for me there is no necro left for roaming. so i hope other (better) Player than me find a way to stay with necros in the game, but at the Moment there is no way to fight rangers, thiefes or mesmers that heavily dominates roaming. maybe changing class could be the solution. idk atm. let us see what happened.

(arguably) pro tip: If you use instant cast aoes, the tell for f1 will appear at your starting cast mouse location rather than your actual casting point.

@"Zero.3871" said:

Nefarious Favor: Reduced the number of conditions converted to boons from 2 to 1 in all game modes. Increased the cooldown of this skill from 8 seconds to 10 seconds in WvW and PvP.

This is the reason why they did itAnd now, the skill is bugged too and do not always remove a condition.

Sand Cascade: Increased the cooldown of this skill from 8 seconds to 10 seconds. Increased the barrier granted by this skill by 15%.

The cooldown is still 8 sec.

@Sitael.4680 said:

@"Zero.3871" said:

Nefarious Favor: Reduced the number of conditions converted to boons from 2 to 1 in all game modes. Increased the cooldown of this skill from 8 seconds to 10 seconds in WvW and PvP.

Sand Cascade: Increased the cooldown of this skill from 8 seconds to 10 seconds. Increased the barrier granted by this skill by 15%.

Unequip Vital Persistence, then tell me that.

"Slow deliberate clap".Well i for one am happy as larry as when purchasing pof i refrained from main speccing scourge. I knew itd be opd as a way to get the mindless to go edgy nec which was now able to give grief. Waited it out for the sook brigade to do their job, anet obliged and sent it back to its predestined home. They didnt give me a reason to burn more of my time, excellent! So I sat happily in reapersville fully minmaxed/eternity stays and ive got more time to do chest biceps and ignore legs. Play how you want to play lol...class performance or effectiveness has never been guaranteed so dnt ever look for it.

I think PvP wise Reaper will still be pretty okay. I've been having moderate success on Reaper power wells going far point at low plat level.I dislike the blood icd though. Prevents stacking burst healing and damage. That is something I'll can prob adapt my play style to though.

At this point for WvW roaming, my own sentiment is to play the spec you enjoy most and put aside the matter of performance because you're right. Necro doesn't have a single all round general purpose viable build for roaming right now.

The nerf to Nefarious Favor is really hurting necros in fractals. Either the skill needs to be split between competitive and PvE or the life force cost needs to be cut in half. After all, it only converts one boon now.

I haven't even started to think about how this is going to mess with condi-heavy raids like Slothasor and SH. This change was completely unnecessary for PvE.

@SlothPowah.1072 said:The nerf to Nefarious Favor is really hurting necros in fractals. Either the skill needs to be split between competitive and PvE or the life force cost needs to be cut in half. After all, it only converts one boon now.

I haven't even started to think about how this is going to mess with condi-heavy raids like Slothasor and SH. This change was completely unnecessary for PvE.

The change to Nefarious Favor was completely unecessary period.

This is a great summary of this balance patch.

Like for real. Its way easier to give 100% alacrity uptime in raids now. So mesmer was buffed heavyly.Even though it always was strong.

We really needed a pve buff. Instead, this was actually a nerf cause alacrity only gives 25%cdr now. Ok, every class got this nerf.

But other classes got some buff as well.

The only class, that didnt get a single buff was necro.

Increasing f3 cd and buffing it equals out.

And 1 other thing nubers got changed is vampiric presence.

Which is only good for necro himself. Cause he isbt able to hit enemys more often than 1 to 2 times in a second.

But if you want to do dmg, noone takes bloodmagic.

And from a wvw point of view.I saw that its nessesary to nerf scourge.But thats way to many nerfs at once.

If you do this shade prewarning shit, then you need to do it for every fcking class in the game.

Like common. In a 1v1 noone cared for shades, cause no class had any problems with mobility to just move out of them. Now its even easier to dodge shades, the only real offensive mechanic scourge has.And scourge was a easy kill. Even for a power reaper, that doesnt have much good condi cleanses.

And for zergplay it doesnt matter as well, cause there are so many aes. That will just destroy wvw, cause my eyes will get cancer from all the prewarnings.

I said it and i will do as i said. Im quitting the game because necro problem didnt get attention for years now. Only the "problems" when necro accidentally did more dmg than intended.

I will still raid with my group. But i wont do more than raid 2 times a week. Where i wont play fcking necro anymore. Cause i just played it fore some ae.But since no problem got solved, or anet didnt even try to solve the problems. The only fun class to play for me, my necro, is dead. So guildwars is dead for me as well.

Gonna login daily to get my free gold.

But thats it.

Maybe it gets playable next balance patch in 3 months.So even though i love the community. Its not fun to play guildwars anymore. So maybe we will see us again in 3 months. But i dont think so, cause anet never listens to the necro forum.

So: goodbye community.

Thank anet for destroying the game for all necro mains out there.

There has to be some way players and Arenanet can come to an understanding of where and what Necromancers stand for in this game. Yeah these changes are not pretty and it basically buffed a line that is seldom used and even when it's used for support options the spec line is and Necromancer is awful at providing support.

What does Arenanet want with Necromancers? Where do they see the profession going and what are they going to do to get it there? What about us as players? What do we expect from the profession and how would we like to see things go? Things don't go anywhere if there is no dialogue at the very least.Again I'm not happy with the changes either because the way I see it, Necromancer is capable and viable profession but has very middle of the road, jack-of-all-trades right now.

This leads to a poor outlook from those who are looking for optimization. Yeah you won't find Necromancer on any speed clears or "Highest" DPS charts but it doesn't mean its bad.

I just want to at least keep the stance that maybe we pulling while Arenanet wants to push. We just need to make sure we are all pushing in the same direction.

Sorry confusing post finished.

@"rrusse.7058" said:There has to be some way players and Arenanet can come to an understanding of where and what Necromancers stand for in this game. Yeah these changes are not pretty and it basically buffed a line that is seldom used and even when it's used for support options the spec line is and Necromancer is awful at providing support.

What does Arenanet want with Necromancers? Where do they see the profession going and what are they going to do to get it there? What about us as players? What do we expect from the profession and how would we like to see things go? Things don't go anywhere if there is no dialogue at the very least.Again I'm not happy with the changes either because the way I see it, Necromancer is capable and viable profession but has very middle of the road, jack-of-all-trades right now.

This leads to a poor outlook from those who are looking for optimization. Yeah you won't find Necromancer on any speed clears or "Highest" DPS charts but it doesn't mean its bad.

I just want to at least keep the stance that maybe we pulling while Arenanet wants to push. We just need to make sure we are all pushing in the same direction.

Sorry confusing post finished.

Yeah a dialogue would be nice. But that depends on speaking with each other.But i never ever saw any known anet dev saying anything in the necro forum.

So i have to assume. Anet doesnt want a dialogue with us necro players

@Nimon.7840 said:Yeah a dialogue would be nice. But that depends on speaking with each other.But i never ever saw any known anet dev saying anything in the necro forum.

So i have to assume. Anet doesnt want a dialogue with us necro players

Okay let's get on it! the most we can do is 50% of the work in establishing a dialogue with Arenanet. We can make threads asking other players where and what they want to see from Necromancer and the more we talk on it the more diverse the conversation and the more attention it gets. It's bound to get the attention of the devs so they at least see that players are seeing what Arenanet sees.

The least they can do is give is a vague idea of where they are coming from and perhaps where they want to take it in the future.

I also dint see the point In nerfing Punishment skills and Nefarious Favor. Punishments are weak and F2 only converting/removing 1 condi is just pathetic. At least half its Life force cost... almost useless now...

I now need the Plague signet to deal with the conditions in this game. I can't even cleanse the conditions from the upgraded corruption skills on myself by spamming the skill that was initially designed to cleanse conditions for the entire team. Which now means I have to get rid of another source of dmg as a utility skill.

It's such a garbage shroud skill I won't even use it from now on. I just spam barrier, but oh, this got also nerfed in barrier uptime, because Scourge was an all to powerful support AND dmg spec in PvE that consistently since the release of the expansion shaped the meta. /s

I highly doubt that anyone in the balance team even plays a Scourge in PvE with a serious build and basic understanding of how that thing works.

Stuff like this is why I don't play my necro anymore, loved HoT with Reaper. Even beginning of PoF Scourge was good, and then you bring out the nerf hammer because necro can't possibly have anything good. At this point you really need to take a hard look at Necro and rework it from the ground up. An AoE warning for players standing in a shade, seriously? If a player in PvP or WvW doesn't know how to get out of a red circle then I don't think they should be playing in those game modes. This also clutters up the ground even worse in WvW, it hides other marks and skills that are on the ground, making it harder to discern what is going on. Necro boon corrupt was in a fine spot up until now. You've made Scourge's condi damage abysmal after this because a lot of it came from those boon corrupts. Especially since a good firebrand can crap out boons left and right and sustain them. Now I guess we will have to more heavily rely on Spellbreakers in WvW to compensate for this change. Barrier is an absolute garbage mechanic, its damage mitigation at best. Healing power scales for crap on necro making it worthless to invest in a support version that can sustain/pump out more barrier. It is also capped by the target's vitality. The scourges I know all give out barrier after they've used their full damage rotation so when you have barrier is after you've used all your offensive options. I've been hearing some necro's saying they get better numbers on a power main variant of Scourge vs Condi now, which defeats the whole purpose of this elite spec, its supposed to be condi oriented. You already have a power based elite with Reaper.

@Adenin.5973 said:I now need the Plague signet to deal with the conditions in this game. I can't even cleanse the conditions from the upgraded corruption skills on myself by spamming the skill that was initially designed to cleanse conditions for the entire team. Which now means I have to get rid of another source of dmg as a utility skill.

It's such a garbage shroud skill I won't even use it from now on. I just spam barrier, but oh, this got also nerfed in barrier uptime, because Scourge was an all to powerful support AND dmg spec in PvE that consistently since the release of the expansion shaped the meta. /s

I highly doubt that anyone in the balance team even plays a Scourge in PvE with a serious build and basic understanding of how that thing works.

Yeah. Thats what i guessed as well some months ago. They just play minionmaster pve. And do test them in actual highend pve

@Zephyr.8015 said:Stuff like this is why I don't play my necro anymore, loved HoT with Reaper. Even beginning of PoF Scourge was good, and then you bring out the nerf hammer because necro can't possibly have anything good. At this point you really need to take a hard look at Necro and rework it from the ground up. An AoE warning for players standing in a shade, seriously? If a player in PvP or WvW doesn't know how to get out of a red circle then I don't think they should be playing in those game modes. This also clutters up the ground even worse in WvW, it hides other marks and skills that are on the ground, making it harder to discern what is going on. Necro boon corrupt was in a fine spot up until now. You've made Scourge's condi damage abysmal after this because a lot of it came from those boon corrupts. Especially since a good firebrand can crap out boons left and right and sustain them. Now I guess we will have to more heavily rely on Spellbreakers in WvW to compensate for this change. Barrier is an absolute garbage mechanic, its damage mitigation at best. Healing power scales for crap on necro making it worthless to invest in a support version that can sustain/pump out more barrier. It is also capped by the target's vitality. The scourges I know all give out barrier after they've used their full damage rotation so when you have barrier is after you've used all your offensive options. I've been hearing some necro's saying they get better numbers on a power main variant of Scourge vs Condi now, which defeats the whole purpose of this elite spec, its supposed to be condi oriented. You already have a power based elite with Reaper.

Well you know. Reaper was intended to be power. But it took them 2 years, to give it at least a bit of power. Nowhere near being good power but at least a bit of power

@"Zephyr.8015" said:Stuff like this is why I don't play my necro anymore, loved HoT with Reaper. Even beginning of PoF Scourge was good, and then you bring out the nerf hammer because necro can't possibly have anything good. At this point you really need to take a hard look at Necro and rework it from the ground up. An AoE warning for players standing in a shade, seriously? If a player in PvP or WvW doesn't know how to get out of a red circle then I don't think they should be playing in those game modes. This also clutters up the ground even worse in WvW, it hides other marks and skills that are on the ground, making it harder to discern what is going on. Necro boon corrupt was in a fine spot up until now. You've made Scourge's condi damage abysmal after this because a lot of it came from those boon corrupts. Especially since a good firebrand can crap out boons left and right and sustain them. Now I guess we will have to more heavily rely on Spellbreakers in WvW to compensate for this change. Barrier is an absolute garbage mechanic, its damage mitigation at best. Healing power scales for crap on necro making it worthless to invest in a support version that can sustain/pump out more barrier. It is also capped by the target's vitality. The scourges I know all give out barrier after they've used their full damage rotation so when you have barrier is after you've used all your offensive options. I've been hearing some necro's saying they get better numbers on a power main variant of Scourge vs Condi now, which defeats the whole purpose of this elite spec, its supposed to be condi oriented. You already have a power based elite with Reaper.

Yes and while I get all the "condi corrupt" hate and nerfs in PvP and WvW, no one has ever complained about the "boon spaming". On some skills and classes boons come passively but this doesn't change the fact, that there are classes out there that just spam boons.

If condi spam is bad why is boon spam considered good? Scourge was in PvP the class that profited from the never adressed and completely ridiculous mindless boonspam in zerg gameplay.Also, ppl continously complain about condition spamming in WvW and then Anet takes condition cleanse/conversion and makes it 70% less efficient on the class that cleansed conditions for 10 ppl. Who was getting rid of half of the conditions in WvW zergs? Guess what, no more.

And PvE, we won't even talk about that. Just did a fractal with my necro and it felt terrible to play. I will now go back to my ranger. At least this class hasn't seen any substantial changes for ages.

There is definitely an issue with conditions.I remember before pof when condi reaper was a pvp spec, i would still get stunned and a bajillion conditions that i would have to eat and i'd die eventaully because i couldn't cleanse fast enough.

Condis are definitely a problem.

@Adenin.5973 said:

@"Zephyr.8015" said:Stuff like this is why I don't play my necro anymore, loved HoT with Reaper. Even beginning of PoF Scourge was good, and then you bring out the nerf hammer because necro can't possibly have anything good. At this point you really need to take a hard look at Necro and rework it from the ground up. An AoE warning for players standing in a shade, seriously? If a player in PvP or WvW doesn't know how to get out of a red circle then I don't think they should be playing in those game modes. This also clutters up the ground even worse in WvW, it hides other marks and skills that are on the ground, making it harder to discern what is going on. Necro boon corrupt was in a fine spot up until now. You've made Scourge's condi damage abysmal after this because a lot of it came from those boon corrupts. Especially since a good firebrand can crap out boons left and right and sustain them. Now I guess we will have to more heavily rely on Spellbreakers in WvW to compensate for this change. Barrier is an absolute garbage mechanic, its damage mitigation at best. Healing power scales for crap on necro making it worthless to invest in a support version that can sustain/pump out more barrier. It is also capped by the target's vitality. The scourges I know all give out barrier after they've used their full damage rotation so when you have barrier is after you've used all your offensive options. I've been hearing some necro's saying they get better numbers on a power main variant of Scourge vs Condi now, which defeats the whole purpose of this elite spec, its supposed to be condi oriented. You already have a power based elite with Reaper.

Spot on mate. As a reaper that generates buggah all boons seeing those other classes just haemorrhage boons continuously in a fight does my head in. Funny how people just view stuff from a one eyed perspective.

If you use F2 and F3 while moving, these skills will miss you because the shade skill drops where you cast the skill and then goes off after the delay. Awful.

My heart did stop a bit when I read:Path of Corruption: Reduced the number of boons converted to conditions from 2 to 1 ...Then I read: when coupled with the scourge specialization.

I'm ok with this.

I mostly like the huge red pulsing circles telling me get the hell away from this monstrosity.I slightly survive better vs scourge with core necro and have a small window to use my stability before it corrupts into.. fear..? still?

@"Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046" said:My heart did stop a bit when I read:Path of Corruption: Reduced the number of boons converted to conditions from 2 to 1 ...Then I read: when coupled with the scourge specialization.

I'm ok with this.

I mostly like the huge red pulsing circles telling me get the hell away from this monstrosity.I slightly survive better vs scourge with core necro and have a small window to use my stability before it corrupts into.. fear..? still?

Look that's exactly the thing I meant with "mindless boon spam".

You already know what stability converts to, you already know you're fighting a scourge. Let yourself get hit by fear and use a stunbreak, can't corrupt that. Even necro has access to stun breaks. Don't use stability while you fight against someone that corrupts it and then come here and tell everyone how op scourge is even after the nerf.

And I don't mean directly you because this "attitude" of "my boons can't do sh*t against scourge" is a general problem in this community. A community that continuously complains about condition spam and at the same time runs around buttonsmashing every skill that grants any sort of boon, but somehow manages to not see boon spamming as any sort of problem because "conditions are bad" and "boons are good", when in fact a boon on your enemy can be pretty "bad".

@"Adenin.5973" said:Look that's exactly the thing I meant with "mindless boon spam".

You already know what stability converts to, you already know you're fighting a scourge. Let yourself get hit by fear and use a stunbreak, can't corrupt that. Even necro has access to stun breaks. Don't use stability while you fight against someone that corrupts it and then come here and tell everyone how op scourge is even after the nerf.

It's true!I was a bit lazy , didn't read about the new boon conversion at all.Don't use stability traits for shroud & My utilities are nothing but stunbreaks :)

And I don't mean directly you because this "attitude" of "my boons can't do kitten against scourge" is a general problem in this community. A community that >continuously complains about condition spam and at the same time runs around buttonsmashing every skill that grants any sort of boon, but somehow manages to not >see boon spamming as any sort of problem because "conditions are bad" and "boons are good", when in fact a boon on your enemy can be pretty "bad".

I know you don't mean me.You should have seen me rage against the exact same idea when they took epidemic away.I am just happy that reaper has a window of opportunity that still is an "all in" when dealing with scourge close range due to this specific change that didn't affect reaper or core.

Do we really need that red pulsing areas ? That's just made me rage quit. It's draining our fps one by one. Actually impossible to play WvW. I was getting 30 fps in WvW now im getting 7-8 fps in blob fights. Please fix this or just put a option for this. It is really impossible to play like that.