Griffon Mount Pull Up Broken

Since yesterday's patch, the pull up skill on the Griffon mount does nothing anymore during dives. This basically means, that you have no way to cancel a dive and pull up early and also need a much higher starting point to speed up your Griffon. People who learned how to control their Griffons properly with its pre patch movement mechanics now hit the ground left and right because of this.

According to this reddit post, the change was intentional/part of a bug fix.

In my eyes though, the current behaviour is buggy and should get the attention it deserves. This changes the previously fluent (=fun) movement behaviour of the Griffon into a clunky mess. In other words: somthing that did not feel broken before, now does.

You had created such a great movement experience with the Griffon, but this patch broke it for many of us. Please revert this. :(

EDIT: Changed wording based on a comment of @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" - hope this is better

another EDIT (08.02.2018): The change is now documented in the late patch notes and the problem regarding the pull up button not doing anything at all during a dive was apparently fixed in a hot-fix patch. There is now supposed to be an 800ms delay for pull ups during dives, but according to some players the actual delay appears to be higher than that. I will test this myself once I get home though.

I was not aware anything was altered on the Griffon flight until I tried doing the races. After slamming my face against the ground multiple times and restarting the game I came to the conclusion "something is not right..". That is when I came here and searched for any topics relating to this. Honestly, I am disappointed that is was an intentional so called 'fix'. This makes the Griffon flight harder and less enjoyable. I do hope they revert it back soon.

Kinda wish I'd known about this bug when I went through and got gold on all the flight courses. Just went through and got gold on a few of the master courses, though, and nothing feels any different, so all the content is still definitely very possible.

After a bit more testing, you can still gain height, too.

@"RoughDraft.9514" said:Kinda wish I'd known about this bug when I went through and got gold on all the flight courses. Just went through and got gold on a few of the master courses, though, and nothing feels any different, so all the content is still definitely very possible.

After a bit more testing, you can still gain height, too.

This change affects "only" a certain technique which isn't needed for the Griffon adventures - so it doesn't surprise me at all that some players don't notice it. That depends heavily on how you use your Griffon and if you use well timed pull ups mid dive close to the ground a lot.

You could read through the reddit posts (including the dev post confirming and describing the change) and respective player feedback over there to get an idea what exactly is affected by the bug. Being able to "get gold on all courses" has little to do with the issue at hand, since none of those adventures require an early pull up mid dive.

Can confirm the issue, makes it a lot more likely to simply crash into the ground when trying to build up momentum during a dive and not be able to pull up. However if you dive without using the boost from Aerial Finesse mastery, it seems to work fine, but at a great loss of speed.

I noticed it right away after the patch. I asked in map chat if anyone else had noticed or was experiencing the same issue, and no one could relate. It's rather frustrating. Having gotten use to flying with the griffon a certain way, this takes time to adjust to the new behavior.

@"Rayti.6531" said:

According to this reddit post, the change was intentional.

In my eyes though, this is a bug

If the developers intended it, it cannot possibly be considered a bug, not by any reasonable definition of the word. Accordingly, I think you proposal would have more weight if you rephrased it as a suggestion.

In particular, the devs want us to choose whether we want speed or height. It's reasonable to argue that it's more fun if we don't have to decide (especially for those of us less skilled at the adventures), but it's not fair to claim that the devs were unreasonable in establishing a different balance for mounted flight.

Seems to only affect the first dive. If you do another dive straight after, you can pull up immediately

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@"Rayti.6531" said:

According to this

reddit post

, the change was intentional.

In my eyes though, this is a bug

I posted this topic shortly before I discovered the dev post on reddit (or at least before I realized this was an official post there), but failed to mark my edits properly...However, at that point it was still a bug, since the change was not mentioned anywhere on the official forums nor in the patch notes... Putting this little fact aside:

In the reddit post the dev claimed that the bug fix does not work as intended yet, and is in fact buggy -> so I guess this post in the bug subforum has still its place somehow...? However, I changed the wording to better reflect that the behaviour as a whole is buggy.

What I find particularly sad is, that this kind of information always has to be referenced from reddit, where a huge part of the player base doesn't even go when looking for an explanation, why xy (in this case their mount) acts differently all of a sudden. I understand very well that most of the devs post on reddit in their free time and I appreciate that very much. I have rarely seen devs of a game being so involved with their community. But it would still be nice if someone at ANet at least could link to things like that in their official forums (or mention changes like this in the patch notes to begin with)... However, that's a totally different topic.

@"Rayti.6531" said:In the reddit post the dev claimed that the bug fix does not work as intended yet, and is in fact buggy -> so I guess this post in the bug subforum has still its place somehow...? However, I changed the wording to better reflect that the behaviour as a whole is buggy.The bug is something else. It's that if you are pressing the "pull up" key when the cooldown expires, today we don't automatically pull up. You have to wait for the cooldown then press, which was not intended.

Regardless, let me try to rephrase:

I strongly encourage you to start a new thread entirely, where you request that ANet revert to the original behavior, even if that wasn't their original intention. The argument would be: it's more fun the old way, there doesn't seem to be any serious exploit of concern, and did we mention that it's more fun the old way?

I think you'd get much more traction from other players and from ANet, if you separate the "bug" concern from the suggestion.

What I find particularly sad is, that this kind of information always has to be referenced from reddit,It's not always, just sometimes. Some developers prefer Reddit, for a variety of reasons. Whenever they post at all, it's on their own time.

...it would still be nice if someone at ANet at least could link to things like that in their official forums (or mention changes like this in the patch notes to begin with)...Indeed it would be nice.

@"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:The bug is something else. It's that if you are pressing the "pull up" key when the cooldown expires, today we don't automatically pull up. You have to wait for the cooldown then press, which was not intended.

Yep - and that's what you call a "broken pull up" skill. "Not doing anything during dives" is about the same thing as "you have to wait for the CD to end until you finally can press the button for it to actually do something" but worded differently.

Maybe the change isn't even that bad once the buggy part is fixed -> difficult to tell right now.

@"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:Regardless, let me try to rephrase:...

No need to rephrase, thank you. I understood very well what you wanted me to do, it's just that I don't agree with it -> there is already a thread in the discussions section of this very forum where the specifics of the new (mis?)behaviors of the pull up skill are being discussed and reverts are already being "suggested" there. Not as vocally as on reddit, but I'm quite sure it has been heard/read by the right people in either place. It just remains to be seen if ANet agrees it should be reverted.

However, I'm not going to create duplicate suggestion threads left and right, since I know how messy the merging can get. What I wanted to point out is that - even though the change apparently was intended - something feels broken about it and might need looking at. It's not like this is the first time something got broken while something else was "fixed". Without people raising those issues, they probably won't be detected/fixed at all. And that's what a bug subforum is there for.

@"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

I strongly encourage you to start a new thread entirely, where you request that ANet revert to the original behavior, even if that wasn't their original intention. The argument would be: it's more fun the old way, there doesn't seem to be any serious exploit of concern, and did we mention that it's more fun the old way?

I think you'd get much more traction from other players and from ANet, if you separate the "bug" concern from the suggestion.I already did that over here

People will just have to learn to use it the way it was intended. I got gold on the adventures without any issues with how it is now.

@Ayrilana.1396 said:People will just have to learn to use it the way it was intended. I got gold on the adventures without any issues with how it is now.

Getting gold in all adventures isn‘t the issue here (and also doesn‘t require any particularly high skill level to begin with).

It‘s the „feel“ of the whole movement mechanic that‘s changed and what most critics of the change are concerned about. The „having to learn“ the new behavior is just an inconvenience on top of it.

It's in the Patch Notes Update now--

**Mounts

Fixed a bug in which weapons were hidden while mounted.Fixed a bug in which griffons could interrupt the delay that occurred after performing a diving wing flap by immediately pitching up.Fixed a bug in which jackals remained invisible to other players when blinking through sand portals.Sulphuric water in Draconis Mons will no longer damage players mounted on skimmers.**

The Draconis Mons change is good to hear, anyway.https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/389839#Comment_389839

@Rayti.6531 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:People will just have to learn to use it the way it was intended. I got gold on the adventures without any issues with how it is now.

The “feel” was, and still is, fine but then I have been doing it this way since September. It’s on the player for relearning how to do something the intended way.

@"Cragga the Eighty Third.6015" said:It's in the Patch Notes Update now--

**Mounts

Fixed a bug in which weapons were hidden while mounted.Fixed a bug in which griffons could interrupt the delay that occurred after performing a diving wing flap by immediately pitching up.Fixed a bug in which jackals remained invisible to other players when blinking through sand portals.Sulphuric water in Draconis Mons will no longer damage players mounted on skimmers.**

The Draconis Mons change is good to hear, anyway.https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/389839#Comment_389839

This was also in the patch notes at the bottom for anyone who may have missed it.

"Improved the responsiveness of the griffon's pitch-up ability in some cases."