Will 3rd Expansion happen at all? - Page 5 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Will 3rd Expansion happen at all?

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  • kharmin.7683kharmin.7683 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Astralporing.1957 said:
    Except that is not what is happening. The game is not gaining players, and is not even able to retain the ones it had. Lack of the clear vision for the game's future causes it to hemorrhage players even faster than during the expansion times.

    Not trying to argue for the sake of arguing, but where is the proof behind these statements? Do we have actual numbers from ANet or is this conjecture based on subjective analysis?

    I am a very casual player.
    Very.
    Casual.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 17, 2019

    @kharmin.7683 said:
    Not trying to argue for the sake of arguing, but where is the proof behind these statements? Do we have actual numbers from ANet or is this conjecture based on subjective analysis?

    Game started with at most 200 employees (probably lower) according to http://web.archive.org/web/20120625140335/https://www.linkedin.com/company/arenanet
    (Company Size 51-200 employees) same was reported by media outlets at the time of the game's release.

    Game reached 436 employees total in early 2019 (before the layoffs), then went down to 293 after they laid off 143 (https://www.geekwire.com/2019/guild-wars-2-developer-arenanet-confirms-layoffs-canceled-projects/) employees.

    The number 293 is from the time of the layoffs, I got it from linkedin (page not available on the archive), 293+143 = 436
    Currently Arenanet has 281 employees on linkedin (still more than they had on release)
    Actually they have about 50% more employees now than they had when the game was released.

    From the March 2016 AMA:
    http://dulfy.net/2016/03/05/gw2-reddit-developer-ama-summary/

    120 devs working on live game, 70 devs on expansion 2, 30 devs on core teams that support both.

    So about 220 developers a few months after the launch of Heart of Thorns.

  • kharmin.7683kharmin.7683 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Thanks, @maddoctor.2738 but I was asking for statistics from what @Astralporing.1957 posted regarding the player base retention and the statement that the game is hemorrhaging players.

    I am a very casual player.
    Very.
    Casual.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @kharmin.7683 said:
    Thanks, @maddoctor.2738 but I was asking for statistics from what @Astralporing.1957 posted regarding the player base retention and the statement that the game is hemorrhaging players.

    woops my bad.

    I posted statistics from gw2efficiency earlier that show player reduction, or at least gw2efficiency player reduction:
    91.5% started Heart of Thorns, 66.2% killed Mordremoth
    67.2% started S3E1, 59.7% finished it
    62.4% started S3E2, 57.2% finished it
    63.3% started S3E3, 55.7% finished it
    59.6% started S3E4, 50.8% finished it
    56% started S3E5, 49.9% finished it
    52.7% started S3E6, 46.8% finished it
    79.9% started Path of Fire, 62% killed Balthazar
    57% started S4E1, 47.1% finished it
    47.9% started S4E2, 42.3% finished it
    48.7% started S4E3, 39.9% finished it
    40.6% started S4E4, 35.8% finished it
    36.3% started S4E5, 31.7% finished it
    32.8% started S4E6, 29.6% finished it

    It's as "official" as it can get (note they are from 5 months ago)

  • Unless they start adding hero points, etc to the icebrood saga maps, we won’t see elite specs in LS. That said, most likely 3rd expansion will come after IBS including new maps, hero points, elite specs as most people want/need that type of content.

  • ugrakarma.9416ugrakarma.9416 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 17, 2019

    The Mad Doctor shows the "hidden" failure of expansion model: is that after expansion the demand for new content increase instead of decrease. Old players that return only because of expansion will be the first to finish the content first to leave and then, increases the perception that the game is dying. The more Anet decrease the gap between expansion/LS episodes more ppl will come to say the game is dying.

    Between HoT and first LS3 episode was near 1 year without new content, and between POF and first LS4 episode was only 2 months. More ppl started S3E1 than S4E1. and S4 general had a lower engagment, a season delivered(With few exceptions) at 2 months cadence between each episode, meanwhile S3 had near 3 months on average between each episode.

    Problem ANEt realized that being drive by the hype snowball is a error, if they drop a big expansion tomorrow the demand for new content will be even shorter: will take less than 1 year.

    The LS1 fiasco "unrepeatable" content, is a direct result of the attempt to satisfy the hype snowball.

    main pvp: Khel the Undead(power reaper).

  • kharmin.7683kharmin.7683 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    It's as "official" as it can get (note they are from 5 months ago)

    Thanks. So it is subjective analysis (not trying to be snarky). While I can agree that the stats shown from GW2Efficiency support your point, they admittedly do not represent a proper sampling of the player base let alone the entire player base. The claim that the game is hemorrhaging players can't be substantiated. Only ANet knows the true numbers.

    I am a very casual player.
    Very.
    Casual.

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Astralporing.1957 said:
    Except that is not what is happening. The game is not gaining players, and is not even able to retain the ones it had. Lack of the clear vision for the game's future causes it to hemorrhage players even faster than during the expansion times.

    few years I am play on some mmo rpg where was 20 "donaters", 350-400 players, 40 bots, and was happy. Content size is 30%-50% if current gw2.
    Left only because the merge server wiht other players and I don't like so much players.
    So we have different vision about optimal players count.

    In short, expansions might not have been doing all that great, but the expansionless approach is doing even worse. And, while expansions did have at least a chance of turning things around (even if that chance didn't get realized for HoT or PoF), the current approach doesn't have a sliver of hope of doing that.

    NO. Any expansion currently will be accepted like LS6.

    You complain about the useless "bumps", and see no point in that, without realizing that the LS cannot even do that. Yes, pure LS mode is cheaper, but it is for a reason: "cheaper" also means "lower quality".

    I am not see any "lower quality"

    Basically, what you say (even if you don't realize it), is "there's no reason to invest resources in this game, it is pointless, better to just leave it alone and let it die a slow but certain death".

    I say current content enough to play this game 20 years without any update till virtual reality world eat everything.

    I'm sorry, but the brutal truth is that lower investment will practically always mean worse results. And, what it worse, it also sends a message, saying "we're not willing to put as much effort in this game as before". And if you think that many players won't be able to see that (and react accordingly) then you're naive.

    And I will be very glad if they left. Because for example: I am play on wvw on weekends and to much people on servers, to long queue.

  • ProtoGunner.4953ProtoGunner.4953 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 17, 2019

    Not sure if the game can be 'saved'. Expansion would be nice, but I lost interest. Haven't even finished the first episode of icebrood and all my friends I know in real life quit playing. I think the game is in a pretty dire state, we just don't have any official stats.

    The only thing I can imagine is some nostalgia thing like Cantha with a full fledged expansion which means: new races and professions (classes - or at least subclasses), 5-10 new maps, new raids and fractals/dungeons, new crafting discipline etc. You know the thing you expect from a AAA MMO. This never happened, not with HoT or PoF and least of all with Iceberg (er sorry Icebrood) Saga.

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭

    so who can say what we not will have these numbers:
    65.0% started 2020 magic expansion, 50% killed Magic unicorn
    47% started S6E1,
    38.9% started S6E2,
    33.7% started S6E3,
    25.6% started S6E4,
    12.3% started S6E5,
    5.8% started S6E6, 2.5% finished it

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @kharmin.7683 said:
    Thanks. So it is subjective analysis (not trying to be snarky). While I can agree that the stats shown from GW2Efficiency support your point, they admittedly do not represent a proper sampling of the player base let alone the entire player base. The claim that the game is hemorrhaging players can't be substantiated. Only ANet knows the true numbers.

    And the lack of actual official numbers can be interpreted in certain ways as well.
    Many hypothesize that Blizzard not revealing WoW numbers means the playerbase is dwindling strongly.
    The same could be hypothesized about GW2 or FF14 (or any other game).

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 17, 2019

    @ugrakarma.9416 said:
    Between HoT and first LS3 episode was near 1 year without new content, and between POF and first LS4 episode was only 2 months. More ppl started S3E1 than S4E1. and S4 general had a lower engagment, a season delivery(With few exceptions) at 2 months cadence between each episode, meanwhile S3 had near 3 months+between each episode.

    I think you should check the releases page on the wiki: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Release

    Season 3
    Out of the Shadows: July 2016
    Rising Flames: September 2016
    A Crack in the Ice: November 2016
    The Head of the Snake: February 2017
    Flashpoint: May 2017
    On Path Ends: July 2017

    6 episodes in almost exactly 12 months (1 year), or 1 episode every 2 months on average.

    Season 4
    Daybreak: November 2017
    A Bug in the System: March 2018
    Long Live the Lich: June 2018
    A Star to Guide Us: September 2018
    All or Nothing: January 2019
    War Eternal: May 2019

    6 episodes in 18 months (1.5 year), or 1 episode every 3 months on average

    Release cadence during S3 was far superior to the release cadence of S4.
    Between the release of Heart of Thorns (October 2015) and the start of Season 3 (July 2016) we have 9 months, during which we got 3 raid wings, a PVP league and the Winter/Spring Quarterly updates . Meanwhile between the release of Path of Fire (September 2017) and the start of Season 4 (November 2017) we had 2 months of absolute nothing. Even if you add up the totals: 21 months in HoT/S3 vs 20 months in PoF/S4 the difference is negligible, but Season 3 had more varied content, and once the Season started way faster episodes.

  • @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:
    the core game is free, so they wont make much money on that . and the last maps in core are very disappointing, compared to the rest (IMO)
    the people, who like core are generally not fans of the expansions, and vise versa
    that is why most expansions give the casuals something too..new race or class

    The core game might be free but the gem store isn't, that's like saying free to play games make no money. Expansions are things to chase further down the line, but if the game is suffering from retention issues it's not because expansions are hard, it's because the core game wasn't good enough to keep the player attention until they got to the expansion in the first place. The majority of players that quit the game were because of the core game and Arenanet has been trying to play catch up and stop the exodus since November 2012 (one of the reasons they gave for the introduction of Ascended gear). I'm not sure those who like the core are enough to sustain the game alone.

    if the core game was bad, it would have shown much more, they didnt implode like swtor did.
    expansions sold much less, than the core game. if over 5 mio cant keep the game going, how would it be possible with much fewer?
    zhaitan is one of the bigger issues, the build up is WAY too long, and the ending is like a wet fart

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 18, 2019

    @battledrone.8315 said:
    expansions sold much less, than the core game.

    Most of the people that were still active when HoT arrived bought it, and it brought a number of players back. Additionally, mere information of its coming release was enough to stop a lot of players from quitting. Although, of course, some of the players ended up leaving due to some problems with HoT maps and metas (that were ultimately only partially fixed, and only after quite a lengthy delay). If devs listened a bit more before expansion launch, and adjusted things then (instead of waiting for half a yar after launch), things might have been better.

    PoF had similar problem, but in the other direction - basically, their understanding of what players disliked in HoT was very shallow, and, as such, they adjusted wrong things. Which resulted in an expansion that was quite bland, and had very limited value for longterm play.

    zhaitan is one of the bigger issues, the build up is WAY too long, and the ending is like a wet fart

    Zhaitan, if you don't remember, is part of the core game

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @battledrone.8315 said:
    expansions sold much less, than the core game

    Maybe, just maybe, that's because the core game didn't keep those players entertained enough for long? Plus over-hype for the game as it was presented on every media outlet out there. Then the internet lost interest in the game and it lost its relevance. Is that a fault of the expansions? Also, a player that bought the core game but quit before even reaching level 80, or even before exiting the tutorial (!!!), wouldn't be interested in an expansion for that same game.

    if the core game was bad, it would have shown much more, they didnt implode like swtor did.

    If I recall the reason they introduced Ascended gear in the first place was to stop the exodus of players back then, players that were leaving in huge numbers stating "there is nothing to do", if this change in policy, and going against the very idea of "easy to acquire end-game gear stats, only play for cosmetics" isn't enough of a clue that something wasn't going well, then I don't know what is.

  • Kelly.7019Kelly.7019 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 18, 2019

    I would think with the way things are going announcing a Cantha xpac (once its well underway) would create a lot of excitement for the game. (even though i personally don't care about going back to a GW1 area, i'd rather go to new places GW1 never went.) I can see the interest there with the community like Blizzards Classic Wow. But can GW2 do everything anet would hope for with a Cantha reboot in 2021 or is that something for GW3. A GW3 CANTHA start could reboot the game and game engine, but does it have to go there? Couldn't they just add a new engine to GW2? resources, human power, blah , blah , blah. It feels like GW2 needs a shot of adrenaline because the players feel like its slowing down.

    I'd hope "saga" is just anet trying to do something new instead of an xpac for now. Same idea, different implementation.
    However i think its more like "saga" = slowly adding content while not spending too much and making money from the gemstore.

  • Kelly.7019Kelly.7019 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 18, 2019

    Where are games going if mmos are dying? Life of a franchise is 3 years now? then re roll and make another game? what? i'd think subs would return if streaming services can do it- why not gaming franchises- hence GW3 a sub? eww? but isn't FF14 and WoW still subs and they're going strong? I mean i pref shelling out cash for an xpac and free good content till 2 years down the road and do it again, but if gw3 even had a 4.99 sub fee you'd lose players but would the content could be better as not relying on gemstore for profits. Sadly i'm sure there'd still be a gemstore. but regardless of subs, where are games going?

  • Jimbru.6014Jimbru.6014 Member ✭✭✭

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    Release cadence during S3 was far superior to the release cadence of S4.

    To be fair, the company had a lot more going on internally during LS4 than LS3 which detracted from the main process of developing GW2. Other projects, Jessica Price's meddling and scandal, NCSoft no doubt sticking its nose into things...lots of disruptions and distractions.

    Also, to piggyback from something someone else said: the way LS1 was executed -- unrepeatable world-spanning events highly disruptive to the normal game, which drove lots of players (including me) away for years -- was arguably one of the biggest mistakes a MMO has ever survived making. I have no idea why so many people want to see it brought back. Besides, the only way they could bring LS1 back would be to totally rewrite and retcon it to death to fit the present state of the game, which would make even more old players angry. So LS1 was a thing that happened; move on. Don't make me start singing "Let It Go" because I really don't have the voice for it...

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Jimbru.6014 said:
    Also, to piggyback from something someone else said: the way LS1 was executed -- unrepeatable world-spanning events highly disruptive to the normal game, which drove lots of players (including me) away for years -- was arguably one of the biggest mistakes a MMO has ever survived making. I have no idea why so many people want to see it brought back.

    It's exactly why a lot of people want it to be brought back - because it was transitional, unrepeatable, and cannot be accessed anymore. Remember, what people want back is LS1 (and specifically the fun things they remember from LS1, like marionette), not the one-time blink and you miss it execution style.

    Besides, the only way they could bring LS1 back would be to totally rewrite and retcon it to death to fit the present state of the game, which would make even more old players angry.

    And that's a fair point, and probably one of the reasons why it never was brought back. That doesn't prevent some people from hoping that it can be brought back somehow, in some form. The same, as a lot of developer statements that can only be read as "no, we're not working on expansion right now" does not prevent some people from believing that one is actually being worked on.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:
    expansions sold much less, than the core game

    Maybe, just maybe, that's because the core game didn't keep those players entertained enough for long? Plus over-hype for the game as it was presented on every media outlet out there. Then the internet lost interest in the game and it lost its relevance. Is that a fault of the expansions? Also, a player that bought the core game but quit before even reaching level 80, or even before exiting the tutorial (!!!), wouldn't be interested in an expansion for that same game.

    if the core game was bad, it would have shown much more, they didnt implode like swtor did.

    If I recall the reason they introduced Ascended gear in the first place was to stop the exodus of players back then, players that were leaving in huge numbers stating "there is nothing to do", if this change in policy, and going against the very idea of "easy to acquire end-game gear stats, only play for cosmetics" isn't enough of a clue that something wasn't going well, then I don't know what is.

    nope, word got out, that hot wasnt good. it almost feels like a different game. they still have to prop it up with insane rewards.
    and catering to the hardcore content locusts never work out, as you say, theyre the first to complain, and the first to leave.

  • I'd happily pay a good $100 for a new expansion

    Then again maybe they have weighed in the amount of work and time that is needed to go into an expansion vs the revenue from it, wasnt worth it maybe

    I love this game to bits and camt seem to move on from this game but after 7 long years really running out of things to do...

  • Knighthonor.4061Knighthonor.4061 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @lare.5129 said:
    So, you accept my words ???

    I'll write it a bit more simple: I'd rather get all the content of an expansion instead of the similarly priced "expansion level content" that we get with the Living World. You want -some- players to pay for overpriced "expansion level content" so free loaders can continue playing the game. That's the free to play model, only this game ain't exactly free. We already see where it leads: to an exodus of players and reduction in both population and revenue, as clearly deduced by the data. If players liked the Living World content then we would see a surge in both players and revenue, but we don't. Facts and actual data suggest that expansions are better for the game and for its players.

    expansions take time and story build up. People not willing to wait for the LW5 to build up story for the third expansion and time to make the expansion.

  • No.
    They are either still working on GW3 (which they were), or that was one of the 'side-projects' that got cancelled with the lay-offs.
    Either way... not looking too good for GW2-related content.

  • Knighthonor.4061Knighthonor.4061 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @TwoGhosts.6790 said:
    No.
    They are either still working on GW3 (which they were), or that was one of the 'side-projects' that got cancelled with the lay-offs.
    Either way... not looking too good for GW2-related content.

    What? We getting a nice stream of LW5 updates. Let them build the story up.

  • Dante.1508Dante.1508 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 19, 2019

    @Ashantara.8731 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:
    [...]

    Plus the fact they seem to make the content so insanely hard these days.

    :lol: You mean the "tough" story missions from the Icebrood Saga that even a 5-year old can do without trouble? Yeah, "insanely hard these days". :sweat_smile:

    Typical condescending personal attacks.. That said i have not attempted Icebrood yet.. I stopped after season 4 as it was very tough to play for me.

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @kharmin.7683 said:
    Thanks, @maddoctor.2738 but I was asking for statistics from what @Astralporing.1957 posted regarding the player base retention and the statement that the game is hemorrhaging players.

    woops my bad.

    I posted statistics from gw2efficiency earlier that show player reduction, or at least gw2efficiency player reduction:
    91.5% started Heart of Thorns, 66.2% killed Mordremoth
    67.2% started S3E1, 59.7% finished it
    62.4% started S3E2, 57.2% finished it
    63.3% started S3E3, 55.7% finished it
    59.6% started S3E4, 50.8% finished it
    56% started S3E5, 49.9% finished it
    52.7% started S3E6, 46.8% finished it
    79.9% started Path of Fire, 62% killed Balthazar
    57% started S4E1, 47.1% finished it
    47.9% started S4E2, 42.3% finished it
    48.7% started S4E3, 39.9% finished it
    40.6% started S4E4, 35.8% finished it
    36.3% started S4E5, 31.7% finished it
    32.8% started S4E6, 29.6% finished it

    It's as "official" as it can get (note they are from 5 months ago)

    Well that really explains what i said about difficulty 29.6% of the player base beat ls4 end and only 32% attempted it haha.. Seriously that right there is a huge red flag on the direction this game went in.. That said i slaved and hated every minute of it but i completed both season 3 and 4 on my one character..

    Maybe i'm not as casual as i thought.. That said i would never go through that again..

    Also explains why icebrood was a lot easier, they are trying to get customers back and do content.

  • Dante.1508Dante.1508 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 19, 2019

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:
    I'd love to see Cantha added but the way its been so silent i'm thinking no more expacs.. I hope i'm wrong but this game isn't very transparent or updated often.. And when it is updated it seems less and less lately.

    Plus the fact they seem to make the content so insanely hard these days.

    What story content in the last 2 releases have been insanely hard?

    Honestly no idea i stopped doing content pretty much after Living Story 4.

    So maybe dont spread miss information if you havent played the latest stories then?

    No misinformation said living story 3 and 4 were hard as nails to complete solo and some of my classes would never even been able too.. Just because i haven't done the latest content doesn't change that fact.

    Aside from Bloodstone Caudecus, I don't remember any boss problem with the LS3 story.
    Some other bosses, like the Golem boss in LS4 Episode, felt quite tedious and boring, but not hard.

    Every season 3 and 4 boss was a mini raid boss.. Some whole areas like Doric lake are a nightmare to play in solo.. I don't care how much leather that map throws at me i will not play it as its too frustrating to play..
    The annoying end ice boss the starting minotaur ice boss.. The annoying Bloodstone bosses were not fun. every single boss was a tedious health sponge with mechanics designed to annoy.
    PoF is exactly the same.. stupid dodging of inaccurate AOE circles, get shield use weird skill number 9... while knocking me around like a pinball of cc.

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dante.1508 said:
    every single boss was a tedious health sponge with mechanics designed to annoy.

    That's exactly my point.
    Tedious boss design doesn't equal difficulty.
    Difficulty should come from the mechanics themselves, not from the length of a fight.
    Sadly, some developers choose the easy numbers bloat to achieve fake difficulty.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 19, 2019

    @Dante.1508 said:
    Also explains why icebrood was a lot easier, they are trying to get customers back and do content.

    Which, as with your own example, fails miserably since those that didn't like S3/S4 already stopped playing or are unwilling to try S5 before they beat S3/S4 first. Making the whole "we'll make S5 easier to get customers back to the game" a moot point as the only thing it does is chase away those that actually liked S3/S4 and now want to move forward.

    We'll see the metrics of S5 and if this drop in difficulty will lead to higher numbers or not, although I'm afraid the drop in numbers isn't due to the difficulty of the story, but of the pace/quality of updates instead.

  • Glider.5792Glider.5792 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @Ashantara.8731 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:
    [...]

    Plus the fact they seem to make the content so insanely hard these days.

    :lol: You mean the "tough" story missions from the Icebrood Saga that even a 5-year old can do without trouble? Yeah, "insanely hard these days". :sweat_smile:

    Typical condescending personal attacks.. That said i have not attempted Icebrood yet.. I stopped after season 4 as it was very tough to play for me.

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @kharmin.7683 said:
    Thanks, @maddoctor.2738 but I was asking for statistics from what @Astralporing.1957 posted regarding the player base retention and the statement that the game is hemorrhaging players.

    woops my bad.

    I posted statistics from gw2efficiency earlier that show player reduction, or at least gw2efficiency player reduction:
    91.5% started Heart of Thorns, 66.2% killed Mordremoth
    67.2% started S3E1, 59.7% finished it
    62.4% started S3E2, 57.2% finished it
    63.3% started S3E3, 55.7% finished it
    59.6% started S3E4, 50.8% finished it
    56% started S3E5, 49.9% finished it
    52.7% started S3E6, 46.8% finished it
    79.9% started Path of Fire, 62% killed Balthazar
    57% started S4E1, 47.1% finished it
    47.9% started S4E2, 42.3% finished it
    48.7% started S4E3, 39.9% finished it
    40.6% started S4E4, 35.8% finished it
    36.3% started S4E5, 31.7% finished it
    32.8% started S4E6, 29.6% finished it

    It's as "official" as it can get (note they are from 5 months ago)

    Well that really explains what i said about difficulty 29.6% of the player base beat ls4 end and only 32% attempted it haha.. Seriously that right there is a huge red flag on the direction this game went in.. That said i slaved and hated every minute of it but i completed both season 3 and 4 on my one character..

    Maybe i'm not as casual as i thought.. That said i would never go through that again..

    Also explains why icebrood was a lot easier, they are trying to get customers back and do content.

    Dude.... these statistics arent saying anything about "difficulty". It's not that "people didnt start/finish, because content got ToO hArD". People just left/quit the game and never experienced that content in the first place.

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeFWMeskOJhk8N-SvOFCJXA
    Fractal speed kills, raids, Black Lion Chest Openings, random.

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @kharmin.7683 said:

    @zealex.9410 said:

    Meanwhile ff14 will be adding a new dungeon every patch and raid/story cadense doesnt look like its going to suffer because of it.

    Gotta love competent management and a clear vision.

    Comparing content releases between subscription based games and non-subscription based games is not a valid argument.

    Management and vision arent exclusive to sub based mmos. And why cant you compaire? Anet had any option for a business model available and they chose this one, and now theyve been stuck at 11mil acounts made since pof while ff14 and eso are millions ahead.

  • Ashantara.8731Ashantara.8731 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Glider.5792 said:
    Dude.... these statistics arent saying anything about "difficulty". It's not that "people didnt start/finish, because content got ToO hArD". People just left/quit the game and never experienced that content in the first place.

    Wrong. When you compare the numbers, 29.6% of 32.8% is still 90% of players who finished said content. That makes the people complaining about the difficulty being too high the clear minority. The same goes for all the other numbers.

  • Glider.5792Glider.5792 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ashantara.8731 said:

    @Glider.5792 said:
    Dude.... these statistics arent saying anything about "difficulty". It's not that "people didnt start/finish, because content got ToO hArD". People just left/quit the game and never experienced that content in the first place.

    Wrong. When you compare the numbers, 29.6% of 32.8% is still 90% of players who finished said content. That makes the people complaining about the difficulty being too high the clear minority. The same goes for all the other numbers.

    Thats not what i was talking about, but ok.

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeFWMeskOJhk8N-SvOFCJXA
    Fractal speed kills, raids, Black Lion Chest Openings, random.

  • Dante.1508Dante.1508 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 19, 2019

    @Glider.5792 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @Ashantara.8731 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:
    [...]

    Plus the fact they seem to make the content so insanely hard these days.

    :lol: You mean the "tough" story missions from the Icebrood Saga that even a 5-year old can do without trouble? Yeah, "insanely hard these days". :sweat_smile:

    Typical condescending personal attacks.. That said i have not attempted Icebrood yet.. I stopped after season 4 as it was very tough to play for me.

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @kharmin.7683 said:
    Thanks, @maddoctor.2738 but I was asking for statistics from what @Astralporing.1957 posted regarding the player base retention and the statement that the game is hemorrhaging players.

    woops my bad.

    I posted statistics from gw2efficiency earlier that show player reduction, or at least gw2efficiency player reduction:
    91.5% started Heart of Thorns, 66.2% killed Mordremoth
    67.2% started S3E1, 59.7% finished it
    62.4% started S3E2, 57.2% finished it
    63.3% started S3E3, 55.7% finished it
    59.6% started S3E4, 50.8% finished it
    56% started S3E5, 49.9% finished it
    52.7% started S3E6, 46.8% finished it
    79.9% started Path of Fire, 62% killed Balthazar
    57% started S4E1, 47.1% finished it
    47.9% started S4E2, 42.3% finished it
    48.7% started S4E3, 39.9% finished it
    40.6% started S4E4, 35.8% finished it
    36.3% started S4E5, 31.7% finished it
    32.8% started S4E6, 29.6% finished it

    It's as "official" as it can get (note they are from 5 months ago)

    Well that really explains what i said about difficulty 29.6% of the player base beat ls4 end and only 32% attempted it haha.. Seriously that right there is a huge red flag on the direction this game went in.. That said i slaved and hated every minute of it but i completed both season 3 and 4 on my one character..

    Maybe i'm not as casual as i thought.. That said i would never go through that again..

    Also explains why icebrood was a lot easier, they are trying to get customers back and do content.

    Dude.... these statistics arent saying anything about "difficulty". It's not that "people didnt start/finish, because content got ToO hArD". People just left/quit the game and never experienced that content in the first place.

    That exactly what its saying.. 29.6% of the current population finished it.. and only 32.8% bothered to even start it. Those statistics have zero to do with who left or joined GW2.

    @Ashantara.8731 said:

    @Glider.5792 said:
    Dude.... these statistics arent saying anything about "difficulty". It's not that "people didnt start/finish, because content got ToO hArD". People just left/quit the game and never experienced that content in the first place.

    Wrong. When you compare the numbers, 29.6% of 32.8% is still 90% of players who finished said content. That makes the people complaining about the difficulty being too high the clear minority. The same goes for all the other numbers.

    You have that completely backwards.. those percentages are of the customers that did the content on gw2efficiency.. 67% never even bothered to do the final content.

  • Glider.5792Glider.5792 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 19, 2019

    Those statistics have zero to do with who left or joined GW2.

    But they do. The 100% represents the players who bought the game, and made an account on gw2 efficiency. From all of those people (100%) only 32.8% started the episode, aka entered the new map.
    Where is the rest of the 67.2% ? They either:
    1. Quit the game by the point mentioned EP came out (biggest factor)
    2. Do not have an expansion so they cannot enter the new map.
    3. Completly dont care about open world PvE and dont bother unlocking and doing new content

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeFWMeskOJhk8N-SvOFCJXA
    Fractal speed kills, raids, Black Lion Chest Openings, random.

  • kharmin.7683kharmin.7683 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Data from GW2Efficiency is a small sampling of the entire player base.

    I am a very casual player.
    Very.
    Casual.

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 20, 2019

    @DoRi Silvia.4159 said:
    I'd happily pay a good $100 for a new expansion

    you pay, but other 99.9% not pay. The real price can be from $19.9 from $29.9S . So that the point to invest and do some additional useless expansion, if it coast like templates fro ONE character ??

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭

    And if I do new 3 exp I am sure that no any more elite specs.

    It can be something like extend to POF, free if you buy POF I mean.
    It include on each town dungeons or make cm mode for current, whit some specific resitances(shadow ice holy ..) and etc,
    rework Edge of the mist and make it more pipsed wiht some resistance mechanic.
    and more more .. but not any more elite spec!

  • Hashberry.4510Hashberry.4510 Member ✭✭✭✭

    More elite specs will be great to shake up the stale state of the combat. This would be one of the best things they could do.

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @Glider.5792 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @Ashantara.8731 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:
    [...]

    Plus the fact they seem to make the content so insanely hard these days.

    :lol: You mean the "tough" story missions from the Icebrood Saga that even a 5-year old can do without trouble? Yeah, "insanely hard these days". :sweat_smile:

    Typical condescending personal attacks.. That said i have not attempted Icebrood yet.. I stopped after season 4 as it was very tough to play for me.

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @kharmin.7683 said:
    Thanks, @maddoctor.2738 but I was asking for statistics from what @Astralporing.1957 posted regarding the player base retention and the statement that the game is hemorrhaging players.

    woops my bad.

    I posted statistics from gw2efficiency earlier that show player reduction, or at least gw2efficiency player reduction:
    91.5% started Heart of Thorns, 66.2% killed Mordremoth
    67.2% started S3E1, 59.7% finished it
    62.4% started S3E2, 57.2% finished it
    63.3% started S3E3, 55.7% finished it
    59.6% started S3E4, 50.8% finished it
    56% started S3E5, 49.9% finished it
    52.7% started S3E6, 46.8% finished it
    79.9% started Path of Fire, 62% killed Balthazar
    57% started S4E1, 47.1% finished it
    47.9% started S4E2, 42.3% finished it
    48.7% started S4E3, 39.9% finished it
    40.6% started S4E4, 35.8% finished it
    36.3% started S4E5, 31.7% finished it
    32.8% started S4E6, 29.6% finished it

    It's as "official" as it can get (note they are from 5 months ago)

    Well that really explains what i said about difficulty 29.6% of the player base beat ls4 end and only 32% attempted it haha.. Seriously that right there is a huge red flag on the direction this game went in.. That said i slaved and hated every minute of it but i completed both season 3 and 4 on my one character..

    Maybe i'm not as casual as i thought.. That said i would never go through that again..

    Also explains why icebrood was a lot easier, they are trying to get customers back and do content.

    Dude.... these statistics arent saying anything about "difficulty". It's not that "people didnt start/finish, because content got ToO hArD". People just left/quit the game and never experienced that content in the first place.

    That exactly what its saying.. 29.6% of the current population finished it.. and only 32.8% bothered to even start it. Those statistics have zero to do with who left or joined GW2.

    @Ashantara.8731 said:

    @Glider.5792 said:
    Dude.... these statistics arent saying anything about "difficulty". It's not that "people didnt start/finish, because content got ToO hArD". People just left/quit the game and never experienced that content in the first place.

    Wrong. When you compare the numbers, 29.6% of 32.8% is still 90% of players who finished said content. That makes the people complaining about the difficulty being too high the clear minority. The same goes for all the other numbers.

    You have that completely backwards.. those percentages are of the customers that did the content on gw2efficiency.. 67% never even bothered to do the final content.

    Unless the game officially releases number of active players (and how the count them), websites like gw2efficency rely on benchmarks. Are they 100% accurate? No, but they tend to be close. Is the game currently having around a third of the population at HoT release remotely surprising? Is the fact that we are currently losing players unexpected?

  • takatsu.9416takatsu.9416 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 21, 2019

    Lots of good points here. Also the way gw2 was designed and constructed from the get go back then (which was revolutionary) was micro updates through living story episodes. new maps, new story, and even new features including new skills and stuff like that involved in each map or story. Expansions saw verticality and flight. We had fractals and raids implemented. They could even change fundamental things like the way servers used to be divided, or wvw alliances/linking. And there's a lot waiting to be delved into like underwater combat etc. It's built to be modular. Therefore gw2 may not even need gw3. It could just constantly evolve.

  • Dante.1508Dante.1508 Member ✭✭✭

    @otto.5684 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @Glider.5792 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @Ashantara.8731 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:
    [...]

    Plus the fact they seem to make the content so insanely hard these days.

    :lol: You mean the "tough" story missions from the Icebrood Saga that even a 5-year old can do without trouble? Yeah, "insanely hard these days". :sweat_smile:

    Typical condescending personal attacks.. That said i have not attempted Icebrood yet.. I stopped after season 4 as it was very tough to play for me.

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @kharmin.7683 said:
    Thanks, @maddoctor.2738 but I was asking for statistics from what @Astralporing.1957 posted regarding the player base retention and the statement that the game is hemorrhaging players.

    woops my bad.

    I posted statistics from gw2efficiency earlier that show player reduction, or at least gw2efficiency player reduction:
    91.5% started Heart of Thorns, 66.2% killed Mordremoth
    67.2% started S3E1, 59.7% finished it
    62.4% started S3E2, 57.2% finished it
    63.3% started S3E3, 55.7% finished it
    59.6% started S3E4, 50.8% finished it
    56% started S3E5, 49.9% finished it
    52.7% started S3E6, 46.8% finished it
    79.9% started Path of Fire, 62% killed Balthazar
    57% started S4E1, 47.1% finished it
    47.9% started S4E2, 42.3% finished it
    48.7% started S4E3, 39.9% finished it
    40.6% started S4E4, 35.8% finished it
    36.3% started S4E5, 31.7% finished it
    32.8% started S4E6, 29.6% finished it

    It's as "official" as it can get (note they are from 5 months ago)

    Well that really explains what i said about difficulty 29.6% of the player base beat ls4 end and only 32% attempted it haha.. Seriously that right there is a huge red flag on the direction this game went in.. That said i slaved and hated every minute of it but i completed both season 3 and 4 on my one character..

    Maybe i'm not as casual as i thought.. That said i would never go through that again..

    Also explains why icebrood was a lot easier, they are trying to get customers back and do content.

    Dude.... these statistics arent saying anything about "difficulty". It's not that "people didnt start/finish, because content got ToO hArD". People just left/quit the game and never experienced that content in the first place.

    That exactly what its saying.. 29.6% of the current population finished it.. and only 32.8% bothered to even start it. Those statistics have zero to do with who left or joined GW2.

    @Ashantara.8731 said:

    @Glider.5792 said:
    Dude.... these statistics arent saying anything about "difficulty". It's not that "people didnt start/finish, because content got ToO hArD". People just left/quit the game and never experienced that content in the first place.

    Wrong. When you compare the numbers, 29.6% of 32.8% is still 90% of players who finished said content. That makes the people complaining about the difficulty being too high the clear minority. The same goes for all the other numbers.

    You have that completely backwards.. those percentages are of the customers that did the content on gw2efficiency.. 67% never even bothered to do the final content.

    Unless the game officially releases number of active players (and how the count them), websites like gw2efficency rely on benchmarks. Are they 100% accurate? No, but they tend to be close. Is the game currently having around a third of the population at HoT release remotely surprising? Is the fact that we are currently losing players unexpected?

    No its kinda sad.

  • SoulGuardian.6203SoulGuardian.6203 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 23, 2019

    It has been said that ANet themselves stated that there aren't going to be anymore expantions.
    However, there are no absolute certainties in this world, so who knows?
    Who's to say what the future holds?

    ANet and NCSoft may join forces with... let's say, Square Enix, or Rockstar...
    More money, more investment.
    It's always a possibility, even if slim.

    But I'm just speculating here.

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 23, 2019

    @SoulGuardian.6203 said:
    It has been said that ANet themselves stated that there aren't going to be anymore expantions.

    Anet say it about nearest 2-3 years, may be nearest 5. But here we discuss expansion after 10-15 years. And I am sure that suggested my vision of exp wiht some dungeon world wiht some resistances will best solution

    @takatsu.9416 said:
    like the way servers used to be divided, or wvw alliances/linking. gw3.

    I have that gw3 each weekend. This is current wvw.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @lare.5129 said:

    @SoulGuardian.6203 said:
    It has been said that ANet themselves stated that there aren't going to be anymore expantions.

    Anet say it about nearest 2-3 years, may be nearest 5. But here we discuss expansion after 10-15 years.

    10-15 years is a very long time - longer than this game already existed. It's not likely it will even exist anymore by then, and you want to discuss the possibility of expansions for so far-off future?

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @SoulGuardian.6203 said:
    It has been said that ANet themselves stated that there aren't going to be anymore expantions.

    They never stated that. Instead they said that everyone in the studio knows that players wants an expansion. They know we want an expansion, it's just the kind of story telling they want to tell is better suited for the living world. Maybe once the Icebrood Saga is over we'll finally get that expansion

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 23, 2019

    @Astralporing.1957 said:
    It's not likely it will even exist anymore by then

    people still play ragnarok, quake1 and doom2. Why should happen that gw2 is disappear ?? All electricity in world "forewe power off" ?

    and you want to discuss the possibility of expansions for so far-off future?

    We always discuss about that. Or you think someone think what this is happen next week ?? :)

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @lare.5129 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:
    It's not likely it will even exist anymore by then

    people still play ragnarok, quake1 and doom2. Why should happen that gw2 is disappear ?? All electricity in world "forewe power off" ?

    The maintenance costs are quite a bit different. The same between gw1 and gw2 - first guild wars can be operated practically indefinitely with minimal costs (and probably even now are net positive on income). With gw2 it's not the same - here the server costs alone are much higher, not mentioning the cost of the whole development team.

    And comparing it with games like quake and doom, that have no maintenance costs whatsoever is a joke.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @SoulGuardian.6203 said:
    It has been said that ANet themselves stated that there aren't going to be anymore expantions.

    They never stated that. Instead they said that everyone in the studio knows that players wants an expansion. They know we want an expansion, it's just the kind of story telling they want to tell is better suited for the living world. Maybe once the Icebrood Saga is over we'll finally get that expansion

    Oh good.
    Glad to hear.
    But you know how some people are like.
    They affirm things with such conviction, without knowing the truth.
    You'd think that they work for ANet.
    So, I am always skeptical, and never just accept every scrap of information people toss at me.