WvWvW - or is it more like PvD-PvE?

I just wonder why it's more rewarding to fight against guards/supervisors/lords then other players? Shouldn't it be about who is the best at fighting others more then who can flip more structures then others? Imo WvW should be about fighting other players first and maybe add some form of bonus if you hold certain key elements in the map you're fighting at.

What do you think?

I think WvW should be about WvW, which happens to include both objective capturing and killing players. How much you wish to do either activity is up to you.

If you just want PvP, then I recommend sPvP. Quicker fights, better balanced gear, no zergs. It must be a WvW-but-I-just-want-fights fans dream.

@Phule.1968 said:I just wonder why it's more rewarding to fight against guards/supervisors/lords then other players? Shouldn't it be about who is the best at fighting others more then who can flip more structures then others? Imo WvW should be about fighting other players first and maybe add some form of bonus if you hold certain key elements in the map you're fighting at.

What do you think?

Wvw was originally created as fighting over territory for points mode, not purely a fighting mode.Players over the years have turned to just fighting when they got bored of fighting over structures which can sometimes take many hours to take.They've already give us points per kill.Not sure why you think the best loot should come from killing players, especially when open field ganks from classes that are now roaming with one shot and one combo builds can be done.Besides of which if they gave the best loot for killing players that would only encourage players to feed kills for loot, much like they fed kills years ago in OS to get the Ultimate Dominator title quickly. Players can't really control themselves when it comes to earning easy rewards.

WvWvW is PvPvE and always has been. That was the original intent and just about every iteration and addition to the game mode over the last five and a half years has been a continuation of that brief.

Its mostly the failure to balance the matches and the well-known and apparently insoluble issues over time-zones and coverage that have led to an increased focus of late on direct PvP in WvW. It's about the one thing players can still exert some kind of control over as the rest falls apart. If the proposed system does bring back something close to balanced matchplay then PvPvE and PPT in particular will rule once again.

@Phule.1968 said:I just wonder why it's more rewarding to fight against guards/supervisors/lords then other players? Shouldn't it be about who is the best at fighting others more then who can flip more structures then others? Imo WvW should be about fighting other players first and maybe add some form of bonus if you hold certain key elements in the map you're fighting at.

What do you think?

I think the the Middle Cannon in Desert Battleground aimed to do ....A huge cluster@@ of 3 servers trying to captured the mid spot and hurt the outer walls of everything by 50% .PPl didnt like it :P

I would prefer a James Bond KitTeleporting to the Guards at the Keep's door or on the Walls , and threatening him with a knife on his back , about any vulnerabilities of the Keep walls (that will increase the damage of your zerg's sieges by 20% (multiply ppl refresh the effect for an addition 10 min)) .15 sec cast time2x stuns to be used on nearby guard or players in the Keep1x block bubble ranged attacksIf you take 3 hits from players or ncps you ''fail''You can teleport to an other npc , keeping the current progression (threatening) to avoid the enemy defender to hit you , but you must be fast enought to cc the previous mob .In the same time you threaten some1 you could take pictures on the walls/doors you wish to examin more thouroughly for an extra 10% damage (4 sec cd when used on the same object) .Stacks 2 times .When you escape you must avoid getting killed in order for the 30 sec costume to end its course (forcing the defender to follow you outside the Keep) .....in orders your Objective to get Compliced and the walls to take increase damage for 10 min .

Edit: Or creating job like :PhotographerHe can teleport to untop the enemies Walls for 3 sec (near live NPCs or until 30 sec after they where killed) - standing still .If he dont take damage and takes photo of his commander , all nearby sieges increase damage , or he can take 2 photos at the enemies inner gate for 25% vulnerability .Photos can be taken on Commander that are facing the camera , while offering increase server score to however kills him (stacks and track him)And some WvWvW headline messages , about how awsome he is

Saboter - that cc any npc with a crossover headshot arrow and boodytrap the Suply Deposit of a stracture for 1 min .If the Commander see any cc-ed guards and tries to takes suplies , then the walls and doors takes damage .The costume expires after 12 sec , and has 1 hp(ask a nearby roamer to where is the enemy commander is heading and place your trap)

03/03 gl

Edit3 Or wearing the Aviator Glasses -see everthying grey and kill any ghosts /particiapat/protect them in any war they are doing near/on the Keep , with the npc having 1 hp or getting killed with cool moves like Batman . while avoiding to be killed by real players or Guards

Quit trying to "win" and play for fights. We roam small 1-3 man and try to find outnumbered fights and try to win them. Who gives a kitten what the PPT is.

@"Musty.3148" said:Quit trying to "win" and play for fights. We roam small 1-3 man and try to find outnumbered fights and try to win them. Who gives a kitten what the PPT is.

Evidently everyone that wants the upcoming change, as coverage is what it is trying to solve. Thus a better chance to 'win'

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@"Musty.3148" said:Quit trying to "win" and play for fights. We roam small 1-3 man and try to find outnumbered fights and try to win them. Who gives a kitten what the PPT is.

Ah no, on EU any server has chance of beating rank 1 server if they try and rank 1 server changes every 2-4 weeks anyways. Its more about unwanted people transferring to your server to stay whenever you win.

So servers pretty much try to stay T3 or below to keep the queues low.

Obviously when theres 3 servers doing it in same matchup, it leads to less fights and less commanders etc... Also overstacked servers with 100 man queue on eb with no voice com.

More like, it gives a reason to win because winning servers = more active and you can soft reset the population every 8 weeks while there are no link servers to keep transfer costs low.

@Threather.9354 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@"Musty.3148" said:Quit trying to "win" and play for fights. We roam small 1-3 man and try to find outnumbered fights and try to win them. Who gives a kitten what the PPT is.

So, three to four tiers of heavily stacked servers? People won't be able to drop tiers to get shorter queues.

If voice coms are a problem now, why are you feeling like they'll be better with the change?

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

So, three to four tiers of heavily stacked servers? People won't be able to drop tiers to get shorter queues.

If voice coms are a problem now, why are you feeling like they'll be better with the change?

Nah its not the voice comms that are the problem, its the fact that the enemies transfer to whatever server is winning fights against them while most german servers are locked. If theres voice comm commander there will still be 100 man queue with up to 70 people on voice comms but the issue is having the 100 man queue when there is nothing going on the map so there is almost 0 chance of getting a commander in.

Germans can have over 100 people on voice comms at same time. Open guild raids on other servers can reach like 70 and normal semidecent groups have like 30-40. So there is no issue there.

And yes, there is a huge difference between being in T1 and T3 because most of the people who dont like their server just look at the server tier list and pick one that in T1.Issue is that if a fighting server goes T1, they will have permanent 40+ queue on eb starting like 12:00 meaning the core members cant play the map anymore. So these core members decide to not win. At primetime you start to see 3 maps queued even on normal servers(not desert) without proper commanders or guilds which is definitely a problem.

@"Musty.3148" said:Quit trying to "win" and play for fights. We roam small 1-3 man and try to find outnumbered fights and try to win them. Who gives a kitten what the PPT is.

Yet, how many 1-3 man fights vs outnumbered do you think you would find if all your enemies went around and also only engaged in 1-3 man fights when outnumbered? None thats how many.

You may not give a kitten what PPT is, but its what allow you to play those outnumbered fights you so desperatly need to prove you are better than everyone else.

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@"Musty.3148" said:Quit trying to "win" and play for fights. We roam small 1-3 man and try to find outnumbered fights and try to win them. Who gives a kitten what the PPT is.

Yet, how many 1-3 man fights vs outnumbered do you think you would find if all your enemies went around and also only engaged in 1-3 man fights when outnumbered? None thats how many.

@Threather.9354 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

So, three to four tiers of heavily stacked servers? People won't be able to drop tiers to get shorter queues.

If voice coms are a problem now, why are you feeling like they'll be better with the change?

I guess the point is, get ready for 4 tiers of that.

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

I guess the point is, get ready for 4 tiers of that.

Its ok to have queues if theres enemy and group worth queueing up for.

It's player mentality combined with poor coverage.

Poor coverage being the 10 man group vs the 60 man world.

Player mentality is that "we need 60 people to stop that 8 man group from flipping a camp".... "We killed them because they're so bad, hey look they moved to a borderland, lets go to that borderland too"...."OMG these players are so trash, our 60 man wiped this 10 man group before they could take a tower"..."looks like they went back to EB to try and take their keep back, we'll stop them with siege and spawn camping because they're so trash"

I for one, am looking forward to Alliances.