Is the necromancer fórum relevant?

I mean, should we really spend our time trying to give new ideas, suggestions, reworks and stuffs? Tbh, I feel we are talking to ourselves and no one up there, on the dev team, is paying attention. We already given a lot of ideas and a good amount of them were consistent! I'm a reaper lover, that spec made me play the game, it looks so cool, so badass, but, sadly, it's just useless. Totally outdated, scourge does everything better in PvP and on PvE the damage is trash. So, should we spend our time here, even feeling that no one is watching for us, or give up? I play reaper since the HoT launch but I can't handle not being able to raid cuz I don't have damage for it, and I'm almost useless on PvP scenarios, cuz im eeeeeeez to kite.

One does wonder..

I've been here for three years, and I've been a necromancer main since I started playing. I'll tell you this. They don't care about us. I don't know what we did wrong, or why they think it's okay for us to be the only class like this, but it's how it is. Scourge has one build for raids. One. Reaper is a joke and is laughed at constantly. dps for necro overall is mediocre. People laugh at you if you try to justify yourself. Necro is never buffed (axe damage buffs tho, lol!), it is only "bugfixed" and thrown into the trash as soon as something viable is discovered about it. Half of it is because of people crying in PvP, and for some reason this is carried over to PvE as well."Oh, well if it's so bad, then why do you main it?"It's fun. I have fun with it. It looks awesome, and I love the ideas behind its design. I just wish the effort that went into the design and look of it also went into balancing and putting it on par with the other classes.All I can really tell you is that if you're like me and just enjoy the class despite getting crapped on over and over, just roll with the punches and hope one day we wont be considered a meme.

People have this weird sense that the collection class community is somehow involved with development of the class. I don't get where this comes from. The forum isn't a place were you suggest and idea and then expect Anet to implement it, or any of them. Forum is relevant if you view it more than a wall of ideas for how to fix things.

Forum brought attention to several problems that got fixed:Downed state healthBlood Magic utterly uselessAxe pathetisadSlacking minions with a double suicide wishNo cleaveNo burning (took two tries to fix)Zero group utilityand many other injustices caused by the original design

Obtena posts like he or she is a relevant part of the Anet development team and has a finger on all the Anet inner workings brought on by some sense that gaming experience grants you psychic abilities. As far as being relevant i think after seeing more Mesmer buffs that will allow the builds to top well over 44k damage you can most certainly draw the conclusion that we are not a priority when it comes to DPS or any fixes of consequence. I draw that conclusion from playing a Necro from beta and having never seen the light of day as far as respectable offensive skills., and now poor defensive abilities.Honestly i had hoped that Mike Z would have made it a priority to review the performance of each department and even tried reaching out to no avail, so i hold very little hope that any true and relevant fixes or changes are coming our way anytime soon. The only way that happens if they break away from the current expansion mode targeting new Elites and move to other races which will actually give the balance team some real time to earnestly spend on each class.

Morbius, Obtena's comment is valid. Your hopelessness is just as hearfelt, though the approach is different. Admittedly, I frequently go off the rails when faced with a patch that apeases other professions but offers no substantial improvements in weak areas.

Let's all take a deep breath and use our Necro's as mules.

I feel like the necromancer forum is too relevant.

It used to be very common to have necros on this board stating that they'd totally be ok with trading shroud defense for more DPS, and because of that we got the November patch which dramatically reduced our shroud uptime in return for significant damage increases to all our shroud skills, and also the cold shoulder change from a damage reduction modifier to a damage output modifier.

It also was very common to have people suggesting Vampiric Presence be made into a more competitive group buff instead of the group sustain buff that it was. And tell me what was the devs stated reason for the rework to vampiric? Oh right they where trying to make it a more competitive group damage buff.

@"Crinn.7864" said:I feel like the necromancer forum is too relevant.

It used to be very common to have necros on this board stating that they'd totally be ok with trading shroud defense for more DPS, and because of that we got the November patch which dramatically reduced our shroud uptime in return for significant damage increases to all our shroud skills, and also the cold shoulder change from a damage reduction modifier to a damage output modifier.

It also was very common to have people suggesting Vampiric Presence be made into a more competitive group buff instead of the group sustain buff that it was. And tell me what was the devs stated reason for the rework to vampiric? Oh right they where trying to make it a more competitive group damage buff.

So your advice Is Tell them "pls dont touch it no more" ? With all respect

Profession forums are just a place for people to talk about .... professions! Imagine that. In that sense, they are quite relevant. > @"Swing.6439" said:

I've been here for three years, and I've been a necromancer main since I started playing. I'll tell you this. They don't care about us. I don't know what we did wrong, or why they think it's okay for us to be the only class like this, but it's how it is. Scourge has one build for raids. One. Reaper is a joke and is laughed at constantly. dps for necro overall is mediocre. People laugh at you if you try to justify yourself. Necro is never buffed (axe damage buffs tho, lol!), it is only "bugfixed" and thrown into the trash as soon as something viable is discovered about it. Half of it is because of people crying in PvP, and for some reason this is carried over to PvE as well."Oh, well if it's so bad, then why do you main it?"It's fun. I have fun with it. It looks awesome, and I love the ideas behind its design. I just wish the effort that went into the design and look of it also went into balancing and putting it on par with the other classes.All I can really tell you is that if you're like me and just enjoy the class despite getting crapped on over and over, just roll with the punches and hope one day we wont be considered a meme.

As for the above. All the profession forums are filled with people who believe that A-Net "hates my class!" "They don't care about us!" "[insert profession] is a joke!"

It's hard to take a step back and look objectively at all the professions as a whole. I get it. Realistically though, all professions have their strengths and weaknesses. And I'm quite positive that A-Net doesn't hate anything about this game, let alone an entire profession.

@MachineManXX.9746 said:Profession forums are just a place for people to talk about .... professions! Imagine that. In that sense, they are quite relevant. > @"Swing.6439" said:

I've been here for three years, and I've been a necromancer main since I started playing. I'll tell you this. They don't care about us. I don't know what we did wrong, or why they think it's okay for us to be the only class like this, but it's how it is. Scourge has one build for raids. One. Reaper is a joke and is laughed at constantly. dps for necro overall is mediocre. People laugh at you if you try to justify yourself. Necro is never buffed (axe damage buffs tho, lol!), it is only "bugfixed" and thrown into the trash as soon as something viable is discovered about it. Half of it is because of people crying in PvP, and for some reason this is carried over to PvE as well."Oh, well if it's so bad, then why do you main it?"It's fun. I have fun with it. It looks awesome, and I love the ideas behind its design. I just wish the effort that went into the design and look of it also went into balancing and putting it on par with the other classes.All I can really tell you is that if you're like me and just enjoy the class despite getting crapped on over and over, just roll with the punches and hope one day we wont be considered a meme.

Then tell me. Why is necro a meme since 2k13?

Specialidations are meant to fill niches. But necro is an only niche charakter. That noone wants to have in his group.

We got that pretty nice rezzing, that will revive 5 people to almost full health.But even for that, noone takes us, because they better take a druid, so they dont even need someone to rezz them, cause they wont go down.

So what are we meant to be? Form a group with 4 of our minions for fraktals, or take 2 necromancers, build two groups of 4 minions and go raiding?Well. If minions would do dmg, or bosses wouldnt have enrage, this could actually work just fine.

But i guess thats not the intention of necromancers.

What is this world we living in? Necro in gw2 is the only class in any mmo, that doesnt reward groupplay, as a condireaper you even get punished for playing in a group. Cause team members will destroy your interaction with your ice fields.

Hello? Thats not the purpose of an mmo. Mmo means massive multiplayer.But for necro its more like mso: massive singleplayer

The whole concept of mmo doesnt fit to necromancer, ah well necromancer doesnt fit to mmo i guess

I know right? At this point:This is a really serious abusive relationship with necro.

We are like the abused house wife who gets beaten to a pulp but we stay because we keep hoping that he will change.

@"Crinn.7864" said:I feel like the necromancer forum is too relevant.

It used to be very common to have necros on this board stating that they'd totally be ok with trading shroud defense for more DPS, and because of that we got the November patch which dramatically reduced our shroud uptime in return for significant damage increases to all our shroud skills, and also the cold shoulder change from a damage reduction modifier to a damage output modifier.

It also was very common to have people suggesting Vampiric Presence be made into a more competitive group buff instead of the group sustain buff that it was. And tell me what was the devs stated reason for the rework to vampiric? Oh right they where trying to make it a more competitive group damage buff.

Ok Crinn, what you said is true but, for how long this forums are here? They started to read something here months ago, the changes "trying to insert" the class in the game, when talking of PvE, are from 5 months ago. How long did we wait for it? And, even after 30%, 40% damage buffs on few skills, why do we still need a 50% overall DPS increase to reach the elementalist benchmark? Taking for example, Vampiric Presence, that trais was so USELESS that they needed to buff it by 1200%(damage) and 560%(healing) and it still looking like useless when compared to other professions utilities.

I feel that ANet ALWAYS have a fear about buffing necros and I really dont know why! Everysingle time they buff something, they nerf the same thing in another way, or nerf something that could combo with it, or give thousands ICD and the buff looks like: "Ok, but what now? We got a 1200% damage buff on a trait, but the coeficients still trash, we got a ICD and our DPS is barely the same."

GS had to wait 2 years for some people start to run it on sPvP scenarios. 2 years. And everyone knows that staff still a smarter choice, because reaper is totally weird. And we already tried to say this, but or they dont see it, or they dont care about it.

@"Obtena.7952" said:People have this weird sense that the collection class community is somehow involved with development of the class. I don't get where this comes from. The forum isn't a place were you suggest and idea and then expect Anet to implement it, or any of them. Forum is relevant if you view it more than a wall of ideas for how to fix things.

well... to some extent it is anet/the support that tells us to do exactly thatjust a quote from a ticket (changed the name and took out the exact reason):

" Greetings Player,

Thanks a lot for taking the time to share your data on the Reaper within Guild Wars 2 [...the reasons/data of the ticket etc...] Please understand that we are part of Customer Support. We have no influence in the changes made within the game. Only the development team can make such changes. We have found that the best way for the development team to gather and review player feedback and suggestions is through our official forums . We ask players to post their ideas in our Official Forums : https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum

Members of the Development Team read the forums daily, and while they usually cannot respond to individual suggestions, the fact that team members can review those suggestions in a public forum helps them gauge the level of interest in a particular idea, and also allows other players to discuss and offer feedback of their own "

it doesnt say we are involved directly. but if it is not meant to be a wall of ideas and how to fix things/a place to suggest and expect somebody to react to it to some extent, why would you encourage players to create that wall of ideas in the first place?

they also mention that "the team" can not respond to every individual suggestion. did they ever respond to a wide interest besides extremely abused mechanics like scourge in pvp? (by patching it some day... not by talking to the community and explaining what they will do and why)rarely! (if ever... tbf i've seen extactly 2 VERY vague answers in the past 2 years).

@"Xuazinegueri.3592" said:

don't compare necro dps to weaver/tempest. this is exactly one of the reasons why everybody is "smiling" at the necro forums (to say the least).nobody should ask for weaver dps EVER (...maybe heavy-kit-cd-piano-condi-engineer).a way to be not insta kicked (because "the class is bottom dps AND bottom support in every aspect in pve - the pvp cancer and nerfs were needed. not saying anything against that. i know how incredible powerful and broken wvw was/is with scourges on the rise") would be just enough.on the other hand... this issue is player-made. it is "nature" to abuse everything that performs better.two options:the developer works towards a comparable/desired dps/support on every classorthe players stop being nasty to each other (meaning elitist being more forgiving and extra casuals think about their build and performance a bit more)

They listen, had numerous occasions in the past where certain topics where embraced . Though mostly because it was too obvious to ignore the changes needed.Mostly in the month leading up to patches is the time to shout for change.

To be honest. looking at 3 months to balance , you would expect way more to be done.

@"Swing.6439" said:

People laugh at you if you try to justify yourself. Necro is never buffed (axe damage buffs tho, lol!), it is only "bugfixed" and thrown into the trash as soon as something viable is discovered about it. Half of it is because of people crying in PvP, and for some reason this is carried over to PvE as well."Oh, well if it's so bad, then why do you main it?"It's fun. I have fun with it. It looks awesome, and I love the ideas behind its design. I just wish the effort that went into the design and look of it also went into balancing and putting it on par with the other classes.All I can really tell you is that if you're like me and just enjoy the class despite getting crapped on over and over, just roll with the punches and hope one day we wont be considered a meme.

This ^

@Xuazinegueri.3592 said:

@"Crinn.7864" said:I feel like the necromancer forum is too relevant.

It used to be very common to have necros on this board stating that they'd totally be ok with trading shroud defense for more DPS, and because of that we got the November patch which dramatically reduced our shroud uptime in return for significant damage increases to all our shroud skills, and also the cold shoulder change from a damage reduction modifier to a damage output modifier.

It also was very common to have people suggesting Vampiric Presence be made into a more competitive group buff instead of the group sustain buff that it was. And tell me what was the devs stated reason for the rework to vampiric? Oh right they where trying to make it a more competitive group damage buff.

Because Reaper was never designed to be a DPS class, it was designed as a tanky bruiser. Reaper is just as likely to become a viable raid DPS as Scrapper is. Nothing about Reaper supports being a DPS. 6 Months ago Reaper was viable/meta in both sPvP and WvW, and only struggled in high end PvE. Now we are trash tier in literally every gamemode because ya'll just had to go peer pressure Anet into trying to force Reaper into a role it was never designed to fill.

@Obtena.7952 said:People have this weird sense that the collection class community is somehow involved with development of the class. I don't get where this comes from. The forum isn't a place were you suggest and idea and then expect Anet to implement it, or any of them. Forum is relevant if you view it more than a wall of ideas for how to fix things.

the designers of this game would have to set down a great deal of arrogance in order for this forum to be valid.

All this is, is a moderated place to vent. that sort of makes it meaningless. I do love the giant walls of text suggesting and detailing new or redesign ideas. i appreciate people take the time to do it and hope it makes them feel better because it does little else.

I certainly am not still playing this class because I feel powerful or wanted. I just prefer it for reasons that in some ways are my own stubborn asshattery. it has its moments :)

@Crinn.7864 said:

@Xuazinegueri.3592 said:

@Crinn.7864 said:I feel like the necromancer forum is too relevant.

It used to be very common to have necros on this board stating that they'd totally be ok with trading shroud defense for more DPS, and because of that we got the November patch which dramatically reduced our shroud uptime in return for significant damage increases to all our shroud skills, and also the cold shoulder change from a damage reduction modifier to a damage output modifier.

It also was very common to have people suggesting Vampiric Presence be made into a more competitive group buff instead of the group sustain buff that it was. And tell me what was the devs stated reason for the rework to vampiric? Oh right they where trying to make it a more competitive group damage buff.

And we're left with a low-mobility, slow-attacking glass canon. Yikes.

It's still fun in unranked, but it'd be nice if not every profession HAD to be PvE viable.

(Though, to be fair ... why no PvE/PvP splits???????)

@Crinn.7864 said:I feel like the necromancer forum is too relevant.

It used to be very common to have necros on this board stating that they'd totally be ok with trading shroud defense for more DPS, and because of that we got the November patch which dramatically reduced our shroud uptime in return for significant damage increases to all our shroud skills, and also the cold shoulder change from a damage reduction modifier to a damage output modifier.

It also was very common to have people suggesting Vampiric Presence be made into a more competitive group buff instead of the group sustain buff that it was. And tell me what was the devs stated reason for the rework to vampiric? Oh right they where trying to make it a more competitive group damage buff.

That's the problem, they increased damage in shroud form then decreased the time you can be in that form and return to it by increasing it from 7 to 10 seconds, thereby negating the buff to begin with. I am pretty bloody certain had they increased damage outside of shroud and nerfed shroud there would have been far less complaining. The fact is as many have said every time they buff something they negate the positive aspects of that buff in another way, it's horseshit and people are getting tired of it.Buff damage outside of shroud or return shroud to it's former duration so we can take advantage of the buff. Also don't ever lose sight of the fact that the LF nerf to vital persistence was not based on trying to bring that particular skill to the same level of their counterparts in other trait lines, it was done as a hurried solution to getting the scourge out without it being overpowered, since it would clearly have been a major game breaker. They are stuck in a never ending loop and someone has been butt hurt by Necromancers in PvP and it clearly shows up in the fact that all the balance is directly around that paly style and PvE is not taken into account. Bite the bullet, separate the skills in this class and fix the bloody thing properly.

@Crinn.7864 said:Because Reaper was never designed to be a DPS class, it was designed as a tanky bruiser. Reaper is just as likely to become a viable raid DPS as Scrapper is. Nothing about Reaper supports being a DPS. 6 Months ago Reaper was viable/meta in both sPvP and WvW, and only struggled in high end PvE. Now we are trash tier in literally every gamemode because ya'll just had to go peer pressure Anet into trying to force Reaper into a role it was never designed to fill.

And scourge was barely relevant in pve and all the complaining about it in pvp got it nerfed. Point being: we're both in the same ship, and neither of us wants the other on it. Necro either needs to be split between pvp and pve, since all the things that make it op in pvp is of no use in pve, or have a complete rework. Many people have been asking for this, and this last balance patch just solidified their case: We need to either split pvp and pve, or rework necro.

@Sephylon.4938 said:

@Crinn.7864 said:Because Reaper was never designed to be a DPS class, it was designed as a tanky bruiser. Reaper is just as likely to become a viable raid DPS as Scrapper is. Nothing about Reaper supports being a DPS. 6 Months ago Reaper was viable/meta in both sPvP and WvW, and only struggled in high end PvE. Now we are trash tier in literally every gamemode because ya'll just had to go peer pressure Anet into trying to force Reaper into a role it was never designed to fill.

Condi Reaper used to actually have competitive DPS. They could have just increased the duration of the bleeds applied by Deathly Chill by 2 seconds and we would have had top level DPS. But that's not what reddit/the forum wanted, no it just had be power reaper.

@Crinn.7864 said:

@Sephylon.4938 said:

@Crinn.7864 said:Because Reaper was never designed to be a DPS class, it was designed as a tanky bruiser. Reaper is just as likely to become a viable raid DPS as Scrapper is. Nothing about Reaper supports being a DPS. 6 Months ago Reaper was viable/meta in both sPvP and WvW, and only struggled in high end PvE. Now we are trash tier in literally every gamemode because ya'll just had to go peer pressure Anet into trying to force Reaper into a role it was never designed to fill.

True. Add to this that the necromancer as a whole can only capitalize on one gimmicky skill to be viable in PvE and that this skill is a condi skill... We can then conclude that the forum/reddit wanting "power reaper" killed the reaper in PvE.

It only seems relevant when there is a hyperbole of complaints that Necromancers are too strong, then we get "bug fixed" nerfed into the ground...again.

If class mechanic is strong in pvp just by itself, there never will be a balanced state. If you boost dmg = pvp Will be Broken ,if you lower DPS=out for pve.I guess this have only solution => rework base Mechanic. Why rework? Because splits will be so big and drastic, this looks like a eziest way. My opinion. Sry for my Eng. ?