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Started this game w/ a group of 15 friends. None of us play anymore. Here's why...


Jarvis.9540

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DPS meters, raid-mentality, and meta-obsession were all things that were against the original design philosophy of this game. As soon as ANET caved and started giving into that crowd, they immediately lost sight of their own vision for the game. This is the reason my friends and I no longer play it. If we wanted a data-driven, rotation-locked, mmorpg experience, there are plenty of other games to choose from.

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@Takoyakii.2146 said:Hmm.. group of 15 friends .. sound like you can easily form a squad that's not give a kitten about meta.

Oh well... no point thinking about that anyway since you already left :v .

They could but why fight against what they don't want to deal with? This is a game, and they weren't having fun with how anet changed the game.I will always advocate that if a player is not having fun they should leave. Life is too short to waste time on a game if you are not having fun.

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@OneYenShort.3189 said:

@Takoyakii.2146 said:Hmm.. group of 15 friends .. sound like you can easily form a squad that's not give a kitten about meta.

Oh well... no point thinking about that anyway since you already left :v .

They could but why fight against what they don't want to deal with? This is a game, and they weren't having fun with how anet changed the game.I will always advocate that if a player is not having fun they should leave. Life is too short to waste time on a game if you are not having fun.

They wouldn't have to deal with it, that's the point. They could just do everything themselves as their own group without caring about meta, dps meters, or raid mentality. There was enough of them to form their own raid group without any of that stuff.

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@"Jarvis.9540" said:DPS meters, raid-mentality, and meta-obsession were all things that were against the original design philosophy of this game. As soon as ANET caved and started giving into that crowd, they immediately lost sight of their own vision for the game. This is the reason my friends and I no longer play it. If we wanted a data-driven, rotation-locked, mmorpg experience, there are plenty of other games to choose from.

I agree to a certain point but ANET has a diverse group of people and I guess there was enough data to support their decision? When I played WoW I had so many addons for gear check, DPS meter and so on. I loved GW2 because mostly the few addons are QoL. Then it happened...no one wanted certain builds...have to link your gear and so on and and people came complaining of being kicked. The story continued and the push for DPS meters were wah wah'd hard in the forums and then ANET allowed.

ANET does not share player data. My guess is based on player data for raids and Fractals that they had no choice but to allow it? I have never stepped in a raid in this game for the main reason of time allocation but a few MMOs ruined it for me that really I have no desire to raid. GW2 offers much more for me as the casual player. When raids were released I think the the hope was guild unity would be the core of raiders but egos even flare in those. Can't tell you how many people rage quit in TS from their own guilds.

Fact is this will always be an issue when it comes to group content where people just can't get along and this whole "meta" build thing is ridiculous as you are "required" by groups, guilds or whoever to run a specific build when there are many viable ones if people would take the time to study their character and build type more.

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I feel you. Raiding is the worst thing that ever happened to this game. It's not about content which looks okay, it's about encouraging very niche but loud group of people to become even louder. Unfortunately, these people feel justified as Anet gave them a big carrot without a stick. Raids destroyed my guild that I've been playing with since release. But let's pretend it's okay.

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@Just a flesh wound.3589 said:I’m curious. How do you stop people wanting and using dps meters and being obsessed with meta builds, besides having the game so easy that everyone autoattacks to win?

Game was earning more money when the situation was exactly this. I don't mind going back to dungeon golden age. My guild was playing every day. Now it doesn't exist.

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@Just a flesh wound.3589 said:I’m curious. How do you stop people wanting and using dps meters and being obsessed with meta builds, besides having the game so easy that everyone autoattacks to win?

Auto attacks only works in PvE. You can't 111111 raids to death, or WvW or PvP. There is skill involved and correct builds. BUT builds do not necessarily need to be exact meta.

I agree you cannot stop anyone from wanting something but that doesn't mean it needs to be in game but with raids comes elitism with or without meters. I am not advocating either way because raids is a game mode I choose to not play from past experiences in other MMOs and it didn't take long for raids to become that way in GW2.

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@usnedward.9023 said:

@Just a flesh wound.3589 said:I’m curious. How do you stop people wanting and using dps meters and being obsessed with meta builds, besides having the game so easy that everyone autoattacks to win?

Auto attacks only works in PvE. You can't 111111 raids to death, or WvW or PvP. There is skill involved and correct builds. BUT builds do not necessarily need to be exact meta.

I agree you cannot stop anyone from wanting something but that doesn't mean it needs to be in game but with raids comes elitism with or without meters. I am not advocating either way because raids is a game mode I choose to not play from past experiences in other MMOs and it didn't take long for raids to become that way in GW2.

People wanted dps meters and there was the zerker meta loooooonnnng before there was raids. I guess people have forgotten the dungeon speed runs, people wanting dps meters added and the forum complaints about being kicked if you didn’t meet the standards for doing dungeons.

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@Just a flesh wound.3589 said:

@Just a flesh wound.3589 said:I’m curious. How do you stop people wanting and using dps meters and being obsessed with meta builds, besides having the game so easy that everyone autoattacks to win?

Auto attacks only works in PvE. You can't 111111 raids to death, or WvW or PvP. There is skill involved and correct builds. BUT builds do not necessarily need to be exact meta.

I agree you cannot stop anyone from wanting something but that doesn't mean it needs to be in game but with raids comes elitism with or without meters. I am not advocating either way because raids is a game mode I choose to not play from past experiences in other MMOs and it didn't take long for raids to become that way in GW2.

People wanted dps meters and there was the zerker meta loooooonnnng before there was raids. I guess people have forgotten the dungeon speed runs, people wanting dps meters added and the forum complaints about being kicked if you didn’t meet the standards.

There in lies the issue. When broadcasting "speed run" don't join party if you cannot speed run. Don't need a DPS meter for that as you can probably tell whose failing. But eh... I use ZERO add-ons in this game though I would use one for GUI if there was one. Nice to see you @Just a flesh wound.3589 ...been awhile.

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@usnedward.9023 said:

@Just a flesh wound.3589 said:I’m curious. How do you stop people wanting and using dps meters and being obsessed with meta builds, besides having the game so easy that everyone autoattacks to win?

Auto attacks only works in PvE. You can't 111111 raids to death, or WvW or PvP. There is skill involved and correct builds. BUT builds do not necessarily need to be exact meta.

I agree you cannot stop anyone from wanting something but that doesn't mean it needs to be in game but with raids comes elitism with or without meters. I am not advocating either way because raids is a game mode I choose to not play from past experiences in other MMOs and it didn't take long for raids to become that way in GW2.

People wanted dps meters and there was the zerker meta loooooonnnng before there was raids. I guess people have forgotten the dungeon speed runs, people wanting dps meters added and the forum complaints about being kicked if you didn’t meet the standards.

There in lies the issue. When broadcasting "speed run" don't join party if you cannot speed run. Don't need a DPS meter for that as you can probably tell whose failing. But eh... I use ZERO add-ons in this game though I would use one for GUI if there was one. Nice to see you @Just a flesh wound.3589 ...been awhile.

True. However I remember threads back then advocating zerker for all regardless of skill level or what they played, even if they only did General PvE. I ignored the please give us dps meter threads but I doubt they would have restricted the use to dungeons if they had them back then.Which goes back to my point that meta and dps meters have nothing to do with raids. Both have been in game since almost the beginning and will pop up with any content above autoattack level.

And nice to see you too. :)

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If the introduction of completely optional raids as a tiny part of a huge and rather casual game and the formation of the supposedly terrible raiding community are enough to make people quit then those players might not have had much that kept them in the game to begin with. Leaving was probably the right decision.

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I'm with @"Takoyakii.2146" here. If you really started this game with 15 friends, you could have totally ignored all LFGs and any meta setups.

I think you are just whining and there are no 15 friends.

Btw. I got insta-kicked again yesterday from a 99cm group with my farm account. Simply because the account has only about 2500 Achievement and 69 Mastery points, or maybe because it's a thief, who knows... Joined the group, the starter started a vote-kick immediately.

No dps meter involved, if it was, I would not have been kicked. Toxic people will always find something to "measure".

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I play various alts with ascended gear on only 1. I have never had one player complain about my dps since I started in beta. I of course don’t raid and no interest in it.

All my original gw2 friends have quit the game but they left before dps meters. People leave mmos all the time and each leaves for their own reason.

If you don’t want to deal with elite players then don’t play with them.

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This is not a game problem, it’s a people problem.With 15 active people you could run any content you like with whatever builds you wanted. THAT tells me this problem was with you and your friends just simply not liking how other players play. They could have easily ignored how others play, in favour of playing with each other or like-minded players via lfg.

Now to come onto the;

If we wanted a data-driven, rotation-locked, mmorpg experience, there are plenty of other games to choose from.Bit.

You’re right, there are a huge amount of games to choose from. But that crowd of “elitists” has always been in gw2, from the speedrun dungeons to the 1mesmer 4warrior comps. You just don’t join groups that you feel are elitist in that way. You didn’t need a meter to know what was most effective, just observation over several scenarios and trials.

I honestly think this post is not quite the truth. If a group of 15 friends quit because they can’t ignore how groups of 5-10 players play in instances, that’s on them for not playing together, not the community they don’t want to play with (and could have easily ignored)

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@"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:I’m curious. How do you stop people wanting and using dps meters and being obsessed with meta builds, besides having the game so easy that everyone autoattacks to win?DPS meters weren't a thing, and meta-obsessed people were easily ignored until Anet introduced Raids. It's the "raid endgame" mentality that is the problem, and caused things that did exist before but were minor and easily ignored to suddenly erupt and contaminate the whole game to the point where now they are seemingly the mainstream.

In short, you don't stop those people, because they cannot be stopped. They'd be asking for meta optimization and be obsessed with 120% efficiency even in games where you could literally afk enemies to death. What you can do however is to not empower those behaviours with visible dev support. Dev attitude has a massive impact on how community perceives things, even if there are no actual changes to the game that go with it. When there are such changes...

@Vargamonth.2047 said:I'm with Takoyakii and Mewcifer here.I can understand those as reasons for an individual to leave a game. It doesn't make that much sense, however, when you already have a large enough like minded player group to do things the way you like.What does that help when the whole game changes in a way you don't like? Contrary to what some people claim, the change in game direction is present not only within raids, but indirectly impacts the rest of the game as well.

They simply ended up feeling it was no longer a game for them. I can understand that, because that's a feeling i'm having as well.

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Excelsior.

The reason why I stay despite the incredibly poor hardware utilization is the style and art.Funny though, dear OP, if other games have the same problems you mentioned, why would you change?I am also massively against DPS meters and often fight 1vs10 on the forums here but I am not bending over to the crowd and still enjoy both the game and the boards.

A bit more of a backbone, thick skin so to speak instead of leaving a good game in favour of . . . other games that apparently do the same.

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@"MachineManXX.9746" said:Wait, so how does the addition of raids affect you whatsoever? I don't get it. If you don't like raids then how do they affect you? I personally have no desire to raid, so as far as I'm concerned, they don't exist. They do not affect me at all. So again, what exactly is the problem??

Actually raids affect you. First of all, they burn resources to make them. And they are taking resources from whole team, do not even start with "It's just 4 people" slogan, it's false. Second, raids are affecting profession balance. Directly. As mentioned in balance patches, devs are watching meta builds and changing professions according to vocal minority of players fixated about optimized gameplay. And finally, since raids are weekly gated, bored raiders are bleeding into fractals, making this content into raids 2.0 in terms of benchmark police mentality.

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