[WvW] What's the best Profession with most Outplay Potential?

In order to not have too many options, i divided by the Core Professions. Feel free to comment and explain which elite spec and why!

WvW Question

I dont count stealth as outplay so thief, mesmer and ranger are out (engi has almost non existing stealth).

Being tanky by nature also has nothing to do with outplaying so war and necro are out.

Mesmer, thief and warr also have too much mobility in their kits so they can easily engage or disengage at any given point.

That leaves us with rev, guard, ele and engi. Firebrand, tempest and scrapper are usually very tanky and/or very supportive oriented, so those specs are out. Renegade doesnt even have a reason to be used in wvw. Core builds are usually a worse version of their elite spec.

Among dragonhunter, weaver, herald and holosmith:

• DH has cheesy pull into burst build and tons of blocks/invulns -> an ok outplay potential
• Holo has lots of spammy skills with high damage and/or cc and extremely easy escape tool with 2 ammo rocket boots -> the only outplay potential I see on it is stealth into burst combo

Herald and weaver can pretty much burst you down when you least expect it, even though you can see them right in front of you. They are also the weakest in current roaming/spvp meta so being able to win a duel takes some extra skill and awareness.

Thief, Ele and Mesmer are probably all in the same spot but with different skillcaps - I voted thief because the skillcap required to be extremely annoying is pretty low compared to Ele and Mesmer while as a Thief after achieving the "annoying af" status you still have a lot room to grow in order to increase your damage.Ele and Mesmer on the other Hand require some more skill to become annoying but after getting annoying there isn't quite as much room to grow, the "best" Ele & Mesmer will probably not be able to consistently beat the "best" thief while the thief on the other hand probably has a decent shot to get about 60-70% winrate against everyone else.

In all honesty I’d say they’re all about the same, but thief is at least more flashy doing it with its twitchy and reflexive mechanics.

Pretty much an spec can perform well the only real difference is the skill floor and the amount of effort to take different match ups. Like on war you bait dodges with attack cancels, theif mainly evasion and blind with some interupts, etc

Of course you always have routine things like kiting and disengage

I'm giving it to mesmer just due to their utility and survivability already built into their class via shatters, as well as overwhelming burst. Thief and Ele are tied next, thief due to mobility and stealth access, and ele due to all the skills and utilities at their disposal.

Mesmer, pve needs them for boon & utility support (chrono) & wvw (evades & invuls, passive reflects, teleport and shatters) very much sums it.

Behold, the transcended version of thieves.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybY42ji4ioQ[/video]

Depends a lot on what you really mean by "outplay potential" and in what context.

1v1 is starkly different than small groups and so on. Is this based on flashy plays or beating impressive numbers of people at once? Do we consider cheese as out-playing someone by this point?

Prior to the reaper changes, I'd have honestly said glass power reaper. But it's too weak to justify right now and its damage bumps made it very binary and overperform in some fights while totally sucking in others. It honestly went from being a very tricky and very potent duelist to something that pretty much either noskill insta-kills someone else, or immediately dies in the process. Much of the ability to outplay your opponent got removed to pitiful extents.

Mesmer is super strong and has amazing potential for crazy plays, but right now it's super one-dimensional for WvW and isn't really often something which showcases a lot of skill except winning outnumbered fights, and even then, it's hard to show you're fighting particularly amazing; bad opponents can be identified clearly.

Thief can arguably show the highest degree of game knowledge and raw mechanics on succeeding with D/D (and I mean going above and beyond in terms of the fights picked), but typically it stands almost no chance of winning this way unless its opponents are basically potatoes. Overall of the more successful builds, core S/D while probably over-performing at the low skill levels/rewarding spam mandates a fair degree of game knowledge and can make some awesome plays as well at the high end.

Idk, it's hard to give any answer right now. Most of what's dominant is pretty cheesy and doesn't require a lot of skill to get kills with. The weaker and more unconventional you go, the more impressive the gameplay will look to the people who know the class/game, but the less impressive it will look to people who have a limited understanding; I can showcase things like consistently dodging thieves' steals and predicting stealth patterns to backstab them while they are invisible, but it does not change the fact I suck into a number of professions and struggle to 1v1 a number of builds. I can showcase creative use of limited resources and butter-smooth skill combos, but it'll only look creative and impressive to people who really understand those limitations.

So it's hard to say when I can get the same results or better with way lower risk while playing something stronger, which means I can win outnumbered fights. It only gives the appearance of skill.

stealth is broken in this game all stealth classes are broken

In the end it dependa on skill so i dont vote a proffession. Some are easier to learn out playing ppl than others but in the end it depends on skill IMO.

teef cuz evades, positioning, and mobility on top of stealth and high damage. its no contest. a pro teef can 1vX or win any 1v1.

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:teef cuz evades, positioning, and mobility on top of stealth and high damage. its no contest. a pro teef can 1vX or win any 1v1.

No. Even a bad thief can win any 1v1 right now. This class rlly has way too much mobility.

If it had like zero other defensife mechanics ok. But it has teleports, evades, more teleports, more evades, condi cleanses and ridicoulus dmg

if we talk about skill , then pretty much DeceiverX summs it up nicely - builds that would require lot of skill in a 1 on 1 are pretty weak outnumbered or even in a 1 on 1 against some powerfull cheese.do you talk about spontanous encounters in WvW or about duels ? because in a duel you wont have the element of suprise for a first attack wich is pretty powerful on stealthy heavy build against anyone who is glassy.now for my vote i assumed you talk about spontanous encounters and here i think thieves got the most powerfull cheese. they can avoid being ganked by traversing the map without ever leaving stealth, they can out of permastealth onehit any glassy opponents and anyone who is not glassy, lacks the damage to kill the thief anyway. in a duel this would be different as you most likely wouldnt stealth for too extended periods and the backstabs etc are easier to predict in a duel and therefor easier to avoid.

Mesmers and Thieves literally depend on outplaying an opponent since they can't take on anything head on thus are given the tools for it with evades, invuls, mobility, stealth etc.

@DeceiverX.8361 said:Mesmer is super strong and has amazing potential for crazy plays, but right now it's super one-dimensional for WvW and isn't really often something which showcases a lot of skill except winning outnumbered fights, and even then, it's hard to show you're fighting particularly amazing; bad opponents can be identified clearly.

Dat moment when you prepare for a hard 1v2 vs a warrior and a guard, engage and focus the warrior 100% only to have the guard starting a tp bomb and instantly go down on the shatter you intended for the warrior.

Skillz. You know it.

@Dawdler.8521 said:Dat moment when you prepare for a hard 1v2 vs a warrior and a guard, engage and focus the warrior 100% only to have the guard starting a tp bomb and instantly go down on the shatter you intended for the warrior.

Skillz. You know it.

forum confirmation: mezmur ez class 19-2-18 11:33am

definitely mesmer.though it's usually less of outplaying them and more of the class's mechanics outplaying them for you, with all the target breaks, clones, stealth, and teleports

Is it outplaying if the class is good at it? I would say the class that is the best at outplaying would be the weakest class because every win you get you have to outplay your opponent. So ele or rev.

@ArthurDent.9538 said:Is it outplaying if the class is good at it? I would say the class that is the best at outplaying would be the weakest class because every win you get you have to outplay your opponent. So ele or rev.This theory falls on what happens when you fight another ele or rev. So it cant be every win.

@ArthurDent.9538 said:Is it outplaying if the class is good at it? I would say the class that is the best at outplaying would be the weakest class because every win you get you have to outplay your opponent. So ele or rev.

is it you being good beating for instance a mesmer on your ele or is it just the mesmer being terribly bad?

and the question was about highest outplaying potential - no info about were it being inherent to the class or has to come with player skill.

It's not thief. Thief is the most predictable class in the game which is just saved by cheesy mechanics (that's why I don't play it anymore after maining it for 3 years). As a thief you either kill your target without much effort or you run away.

There is no "outplay class" in the game. GW2 is rock-paper-scissors. Classes that ignore this concept (like condi mesmer did for some years or celestial ele for some months) are broken in terms of overall gamedesign and need nerfs for the health of the game.

Just to make that clear: I DON'T like this design concept. I'd prefer that ANet would balance the game around 1v1.

@DeceiverX.8361 said:Prior to the reaper changes, I'd have honestly said glass power reaper. But it's too weak to justify right now and its damage bumps made it very binary and overperform in some fights while totally sucking in others.
That's exactly how I would describe thief.

@"KrHome.1920" said:It's not thief. Thief is the most predictable class in the game which is just saved by cheesy mechanics (that's why I don't play it anymore after maining it for 3 years). As a thief you either kill your target without much effort or you run away.

There is no "outplay class" in the game. GW2 is rock-paper-scissors. Classes that ignore this concept (like condi mesmer did for some years or celestial ele for some months) are broken in terms of overall gamedesign and need nerfs for the health of the game.

Just to make that clear: I DON'T like this design concept. I'd prefer that ANet would balance the game around 1v1.

a thief can escape or avoid any unfavourable fight and has the potential to kill anything, he doesnt fit in your rock paper scissors system. surviving an opponent is not really winning anything, or a naked lvl 1 toon at spawn would win all day long.sure you might not call it outplaying if i use long stacked stealth followed by bursty openers with onshot potential or reset the fight till its in my favour because you got important stuff on CD( or no LF on your nek) . but those are tactics to bypass other classes skills/mechanics and win the fights - so i would call that outplaying. not skillful, not fair , but outplayed.

When i say most outplay potential is when you see for example, a rev surviving a 1v2 vs condi and still winning. Makes you think, damn, that rev is good (granted the other two might suck), but when you see a condi thief/condi mirage, you go.. "meh, stupid/cheesy build". Thats what i mean .. i know its a hard question to explain. Maybe what i mean is, what class takes most skill? Rather than just pressing the same rotation skills and getting the kill

@"DeKong.6203" said:When i say most outplay potential is when you see for example, a rev surviving a 1v2 vs condi and still winning. Makes you think, kitten, that rev is good (granted the other two might suck), but when you see a condi thief/condi mirage, you go.. "meh, stupid/cheesy build". Thats what i mean .. i know its a hard question to explain. Maybe what i mean is, what class takes most skill? Rather than just pressing the same rotation skills and getting the kill

so you want a weak class that just needs to find stupid enough opponents to win. then i would say lvl 2 ele with only a staff equiped rest naked. that would require some serious positioning skill even against the most stupid opponents.

__

You don't really outplay people roaming in WvW (or at least very rarely), because the combat in this game lacks the complexity, skill cap, etc to facilitate that.

@MUDse.7623 said:

@"DeKong.6203" said:When i say most outplay potential is when you see for example, a rev surviving a 1v2 vs condi and still winning. Makes you think, kitten, that rev is good (granted the other two might suck), but when you see a condi thief/condi mirage, you go.. "meh, stupid/cheesy build". Thats what i mean .. i know its a hard question to explain. Maybe what i mean is, what class takes most skill? Rather than just pressing the same rotation skills and getting the kill

Ty for the answer! Will look into it! ?