Mesmer Identity Crisis

So since the official position seem to be that they are not going to fix Confusion in PvE but rather hap-hazardly filled the "holes" left by the changes with Torment, doesn't that kinda ruin the Mesmer (especially Mirage) identity?

I mean, Confusion with it's pink icon is pretty synonymous with Mesmer.

Now they're just another class pooping out Torment like any Scourge or Revenant out there...

I'm surprised Necros haven't started using this as proof that Anet hates them.

@Levetty.1279 said:I'm surprised Necros haven't started using this as proof that Anet hates them.

Just wait. If they add any more torment to our weapon sets they’ll start up. Oh I just had a thought! Why not keep our low intensity torment on scepter but add boon conversion on it too! That would really get the necro crowd going.

My guess is that the Torment thing is a band-aid fix until they can make Confusion have its own identity in PvE and actually work.

@Agent Noun.7350 said:My guess is that the Torment thing is a band-aid fix until they can make Confusion have its own identity in PvE and actually work.

So in other words revert to what we had before? :tongue:

@Levetty.1279 said:I'm surprised Necros haven't started using this as proof that Anet hates them.

We don't need more proof :)

@Carighan.6758 said:

@"Agent Noun.7350" said:My guess is that the Torment thing is a band-aid fix until they can make Confusion have its own identity in PvE and actually work.

Yeah probably. Honestly I thought it was probably fine before. It didn't have much of its own identity, at least in PvE, but at least it was worth using. I'm sympathetic to wanting to make it a truly unique condition and not just "bleeding, but purple," but I don't personally have any ideas.

@Agent Noun.7350 said:

@Carighan.6758 said:

@Agent Noun.7350 said:My guess is that the Torment thing is a band-aid fix until they can make Confusion have its own identity in PvE and actually work.

It was fine before in PvP scenarios because it gave the player a choice- cleanse or do nothing. But that’s horrible in PvE. Unfortunately, at this rate confusion won’t be worthwhile to take and if they keep giving us more torment people will complain about torment stacking which... will lead us down this road with it.Which wouldn’t be a bad thing if we had better access to burning as that gives us a third damaging condition to make up for an underperforming confusion. But seeing how our access to burn is rng through staff and torch, it won’t make up the difference at this time.

I ran into a few condi mirages last night in WvW roaming and had little issue with them other than the abundance of phantasms running around. Between mine and theirs the screen get a tad cluttered. Honestly, condi in general didn’t give me any trouble unless I was severely out numbered because most mirage condi I could just shrug off. Taking on multiple burn guards at once caused me some issues but I could disengage easily enough from them.

I honestly think Anet is on the way of just removing condition builds out of the game completely, I don't think anyone will be satisfied here on the forums until the damage type is completely gone. There are plenty of people spreading lies about mesmers dropping 30stacks of confuse still, in hopes of further damaging the class. Its gonna be a long ride down there will be more nerfs until the class is unplayable. You all should have stopped to defend Necros when we had to chance you all should have known if they came after necros they would have come after us since we were the only other viable condition class in the game.

I wonder if player perception of condition damage is skewed because it's just not really fun to be killed by.

I know, it's generally not considered fun to lose in the first place, but there's definitely a spectrum between having fun but losing, and being frustrated while you lose. And in PvP, condition damage tends to fall into that second bucket. It requires you to use your precious utility slots and trait choices to counter it or just be inevitably killed by (surprisingly fast) attrition. Even if it doesn't kill you any faster than a similar power build does with mega-crits, it feels less fair, likely because you already feel like you're making sacrifices in your build just to account for the very existence of condition damage. When you die to it, you wonder why you made those concessions in the first place, or maybe you just didn't even see the attack that did it, because it's been an inevitable build-up of ticking damage that wore you down and not one big hit.

Whether or not balance changes should be made based on player perception rather than hard data is a really difficult choice to make. I know it's common from our perspective to think that data is what matters most, but I've read several articles by game designers (like this one) that suggest, from the design side, that balance changes are done primarily to achieve the perception of a balanced challenge, rather than actual balance.

I have no idea at all if that's what's going on with condition damage in PvP here in Guild Wars 2, of course. They could be aiming for perfect balance, or just aiming for "fun," and they could be succeeding or missing the mark--official forums are rarely an accurate benchmark of how the playerbase feels about a game, after all.

This is an unpopular opinion but I like when confusion worked that way and I'm glad it does again... And I'm talking for the PvE side of the game. Yes, it's less optimal but I like it nonseless.

@"Dadnir.5038" said:This is an unpopular opinion but I like when confusion worked that way and I'm glad it does again... And I'm talking for the PvE side of the game. Yes, it's less optimal but I like it nonseless.

"Less optimal" is a cute way of saying "totally useless".

It literally ticks for 200-400 damage on raid bosses where you have other classes buffing you and all that.

@Oglaf.1074 said:

@"Dadnir.5038" said:This is an unpopular opinion but I like when confusion worked that way and I'm glad it does again... And I'm talking for the PvE side of the game. Yes, it's less optimal but I like it nonseless.

Even bosses use attacks allowing a fullfilling spike of damage.

Guardians would like to have a word with you Mesmers about the word "identity."

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@Oglaf.1074 said:

@Dadnir.5038 said:This is an unpopular opinion but I like when confusion worked that way and I'm glad it does again... And I'm talking for the PvE side of the game. Yes, it's less optimal but I like it nonseless.

The condition is balanced for players who spam attacks, not bosses who throw out a punch once in a blue moon.

So. Yeah. Totally useless.

@Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046 said:

@Levetty.1279 said:I'm surprised Necros haven't started using this as proof that Anet hates them.

Because mesmer power spec only need 1 patch to reach more than 30k on benchmark. While necro already got so many patch and still below 30k.

@"Falseprophet.1502" said:Guardians would like to have a word with you Mesmers about the word "identity."

Oh look, here come the guardians, you know, the ones with a good dps spec..

@Feersum Endjinn.4179 said:

@"Falseprophet.1502" said:Guardians would like to have a word with you Mesmers about the word "identity."

Oh look, here comes a mesmer, you know, the spec that is higher than both Firebrand and DH dps.

Quit being dense and petty. This thread is about identity, not damage. Guardian has always been categorized as a support profession since it's inception and the only support we offer is in WvW. which we sacrifice any sort of damage at the behest of Minstrel's gear.

@Falseprophet.1502 said:

@Feersum Endjinn.4179 said:

@Falseprophet.1502 said:Guardians would like to have a word with you Mesmers about the word "identity."

Uh no dh still higher dps.

@Genesis.5169 said:

@Falseprophet.1502 said:

@Feersum Endjinn.4179 said:

@Falseprophet.1502 said:Guardians would like to have a word with you Mesmers about the word "identity."

LMAO, 36k is higher than 31k for DH dps? Please send me a video of DH or even Firebrand dps that eclipses 36k.

@Falseprophet.1502 said:

@Genesis.5169 said:

@Falseprophet.1502 said:

@Feersum Endjinn.4179 said:

@Falseprophet.1502 said:Guardians would like to have a word with you Mesmers about the word "identity."

A benchmark is not a raid in game when you actually do the content dhs are still doing slightly below Weaver's in 2nd place in the raids and t4 cms I have been doing.

Benchmarks are controlled situations please don't use it as Gospel.

Can we keep the thread on track?

@Genesis.5169 said:

@Falseprophet.1502 said:

@Genesis.5169 said:

@Falseprophet.1502 said:

@Feersum Endjinn.4179 said:

@Falseprophet.1502 said:Guardians would like to have a word with you Mesmers about the word "identity."

Cherry picking at its finest. Provide me with any evidence to back up your claim. Also, you're still neglecting the original argument of "identity."

Since you brought up raids, your semantics are just wrong. When you do KC, sure DH would be below a Weaver because you would never run Mirage on it or any condition based class. This is reciprocal to Mirage, ie Cairn, etc.

@Falseprophet.1502 said:

@Genesis.5169 said:

@Falseprophet.1502 said:

@Genesis.5169 said:

@Falseprophet.1502 said:

@Feersum Endjinn.4179 said:

@Falseprophet.1502 said:Guardians would like to have a word with you Mesmers about the word "identity."

You claim he is cherrypicking, but then you go and precisely pick out the single encounter that favors mirage dps over that of DH? Wow. I have no words.

@Genesis.5169 said:I honestly think Anet is on the way of just removing condition builds out of the game completely, I don't think anyone will be satisfied here on the forums until the damage type is completely gone.

Basically revert to vanilla times?