Increasing TTK, Undoing Old Split Changes and Eliminating Skill Splitting - Page 4 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Increasing TTK, Undoing Old Split Changes and Eliminating Skill Splitting

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  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Xterra.6172 said:
    we're claiming that there's build diversity when the only acceptable guardian build these days is full minstrel? i'd rather take my chances in oncoming traffic than play minstrel guardian.

    Except that there are still roaming power dhs that can be very effective, not to mention vanilla burn guard or fb.

    Zerging isnt everything you know. That there is only one build/role for zerging is unsuprising. That apply to all classes.

  • Xterra.6172Xterra.6172 Member ✭✭
    edited February 15, 2019

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Xterra.6172 said:
    we're claiming that there's build diversity when the only acceptable guardian build these days is full minstrel? i'd rather take my chances in oncoming traffic than play minstrel guardian.

    Except that there are still roaming power dhs that can be very effective, not to mention vanilla burn guard or fb.

    Zerging isnt everything you know. That there is only one build/role for zerging is unsuprising. That apply to all classes.

    i play trailblazer fb and marauder dh for roaming so you're preaching to the choir when you mention than zerging isn't everything homie.

    Xterra/Marqeese[Ark]

  • Kraljevo.2801Kraljevo.2801 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 17, 2019

    I just want combo fields to matter again. They added depth to the combat in wvw. Seeing one of the most unique elements of this game largely unused like this because of powercreep is a crying shame.

    This forum is boring as kitten

  • @Kraljevo.2801 said:
    I just want combo fields to matter again. They added depth to the combat in wvw. Seeing one of the most unique elements of this game largely unused like this because of powercreep is a crying shame.

    Engi and Ele still make good use of combo fields for themselves. But on a large scale for support yeah, it certainly isn't like the old days.

    [JEEP] [IH] [HUNT] | Necromancer | Maguuma | Diamond Legend
    You've got those dangerous eyes ... ♫

  • @Swagger.1459 said:
    Giving an individual player the build tools to kill another player with 1 hit, or even in a few seconds with combos, is not healthy for this mode... This low TTK issue is also magnified when you have large numbers of players facing off against other large numbers of players too... So I’d like to present a few, FOR WvW AND SPVP ONLY, suggestions to increase the Time To Kill (TTK) and help make battles more hard fought, with more give and take to them. This will not screw over PvE because, as I typed, it's FOR WvW AND SPVP ONLY.

    • Increase base Health of professions. 30k for Ele, Guard and Thief. 35k for Engi, Mes, Ranger and Rev. 40k for Necro and War.

    • Increase numbers on personal heal skills and HP modifiers on personal heal skills.

    • Decrease all weapon and slot skill cool-downs by 50% to help maintain the fast paced skill decision making combat.

    • Reduce critical hit modifiers by 25%.

    • Double the health and damage output of NPC sentries, guards and lords.

    • Increase siege damage on players by 25%.

    Warrior already has a ridiculous level of sustain, they can run into a zerg take no damage and run back out and escape, and you want them to get more health to allow them to survive even longer, Necro also doesnt need more health ( and i play main necro in WvW ), Thief, Mesmer have crazy evade/stealth to get away, ( not to mention they can pretty much burst you from 100-0 so fast and mostly from invis, yet you want them to have more health )

    You want to reduce weapon /slot skill cool down, but that would allow some players who already do insane burst damage to do even more, does this not completely offset increasing the health, even with the reduced 25% it would be a problem,

    If anything they need to reduce siege damage on players even more, this is the leading cause of no open field fights, i have literally taken a keep that had more siege that active players trying to defend it, there is no skill to sitting on an AC and using the camera to glitch out line of sight to cheese the enemy.

    The should increase NPC health by 50-80% but they should reduce damage by siege on players by 25-40% it should be used to slow down not stop IMO, they need to reduce overall damage in WvW not increase it,

    I personally think WvW should get the sPvP treatment, in the setup of players, where you dont use the PVE armor/trinkets etc, as it just allows for this massive OP damage, when you can be burst from 100-0 in less than 1.5 seconds, this leaves no room for counter play.

  • @Kraljevo.2801 said:
    I just want combo fields to matter again. They added depth to the combat in wvw. Seeing one of the most unique elements of this game largely unused like this because of powercreep is a crying shame.

    Not so much the power creep of the player that makes combo unnecessary. The change to guild aura is probably the biggest. No need to blast static fields you get perma swiftness now. Didn't blast that fire field? Guild aura got you covered with bonus power, toughness, ect ect.

  • Instead of focusing on the OP's solution, I think it's worth reiterating the problem statement (and I paraphrase)

    Short "time to kill" is a problem for competitive game modes. Increasing this would make things more competitive and more fun.

    I think it's worth trying to convince ANet of this (as it does explain some of the complaints that people make often) and then let ANet work out a way to handle it. (I suspect many of the ideas the OP offers would be considered, especially increasing base health just for WvW and/or PvP.)

    "Face the facts. Then act on them. It's ...the only doctrine I have to offer you, & it's harder than you'd think, because I swear humans seem hardwired to do anything but. Face the facts. Don't pray, don't wish, ...FACE THE FACTS. THEN act." — Quellcrist Falconer

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 5, 2019

    Called it...

    @Swagger.1459 said:
    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065

    I'm thinking "really soon" would be a good time to implement this stuff considering those 80 person mount charge nukes are coming next week :P Whadaya say?

    “They all died instantly.”

    @borgs.6103 said:

    See for yourselves

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 7, 2019

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065

    “Renée Machyousky (answering the question about TTK - time to kill): "This is a rather loaded question and a lot factors into this. For instance, clearly some characters will be far more vulnerable (lower HP and resists) than others. I can at least say this, we are not over fond of insta-gibbing. We want battles to be hard fought, with plenty of give and take."

    ...

    “In general, combat in Camelot Unchained is intended to be on the slower, more strategic end of the scale. Time To Kill (TTK) will probably be higher than most modern MMO's, certainly higher than FPS games. See Ben's Dose of Design column from Unveiled Newsletter #35, titled The Speed of Play:

    Usually, this question is asked with regard to the pacing of combat. To provide a comprehensive explanation of combat speed, we need to talk about health, movement, and ability use.

    Health, relative to damage, determines how long fights will tend to last. A game that has low health compared to damage output will tend to have fights end very quickly. A game with high health compared to damage output will have fights that take longer, as characters are able to sustain more damage before being killed. There are of course additional factors to consider, such as armor, healing, buffs and debuffs, and the difficulty of successfully landing attacks against a target in the first place. With careful design, however, it is possible to maintain an expected range of variance for the time it will take one character to kill another. The shorthand term you will often see for this time is TTK, or Time To Kill. When designing a combat system, TTK is an important value to keep in mind, as it greatly influences the way players will feel about the speed of combat in the game.

    Since TTK is a range of expected times, what tends to be most important for taking TTK into consideration is the minimum, or the fastest one character can kill another. Regardless of the amount of variance, the fastest time in which a character can be killed tends to be a breaking point. It sets the lowest amount of time players will have to respond before they are killed. In some games, this time can be instantaneous, which is where the term “one-shot kill” comes from.

    For Camelot Unchained, we have decided to try and minimize the potential for one-shot kills. To accomplish this, our target minimum TTK needs to be set to some number of seconds above zero. During early testing, we have set this minimum value to around 10-15 seconds, which will continue to be adjusted as testing continues. This means that a high-damage-output character with well-crafted gear shouldn’t be able to kill a freshly-created character with starter gear anywhere near instantly. This number might seem high at first, just for that purpose, but for the sake of large battles we want to provide a little extra buffer for when multiple characters are attacking the same target.

    Months or even years after the game launches, we want new players to be able to go out onto the battlefield full of highly progressed characters and contribute to the war without being instantly killed. Every rule has its exceptions, so there will no doubt still be cases where characters immediately die, such as getting focused on by many enemies at once, or being crushed under the rubble of a collapsing building. The vast majority of the time, though, there should be an allowance of at least a few seconds when your character is attacked to respond with an ability or two before being killed.”

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Many words for the same balance philosophy as in GW2. And then players break it.

  • @Swagger.1459 said:
    Giving an individual player the build tools to kill another player with 1 hit, or even in a few seconds with combos, is not healthy for this mode... This low TTK issue is also magnified when you have large numbers of players facing off against other large numbers of players too... So I’d like to present a few, FOR WvW AND SPVP ONLY, suggestions to increase the Time To Kill (TTK) and help make battles more hard fought, with more give and take to them. This will not screw over PvE because, as I typed, it's FOR WvW AND SPVP ONLY.

    Sorry I don't agree. Been playing this game since release. I've seen all sorts of WvW metas and the worst IMO is the bunker melee trains that form when TTK is high. There are already many ways to build extreme bunkers. Currently there is a good balance of damage and bunker but only spread among a few professions. A good way to encourage more build diversity is to buff some of the less used professions in WvW so they can fit the damage or bunker support role better.

    Just increasing TTK will actually inflate existing balance issues.

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