Buying and Selling "Runs" — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Buying and Selling "Runs"

Over the last few months, we have seen a surge in the number of in-game sales related to the completion of challenging encounters and achievements. We've been gathering feedback both internally and externally and we wanted to provide some clarification to players about our policies on this subject.

Reaching back to the roots of Guild Wars, selling "runs" has been a core role for certain members of our community. We recognize that some players are not able to complete all content. Other players have provided a service of convenience or carry through the years, and our official stance is that the selling or buying of runs is completely acceptable.

However, there is a point where things get a little more tricky, such as when account sharing is involved, or when the transfer of enormous wealth for raid runs takes place. At this point, we believe we need to clarify a few things:

  • First, account sharing is incredibly risky, as it often leads to the compromise of the account, after which the account may be locked for an indefinite period of time, or permanently terminated. We very seldom are able to retrieve and return a previously shared account to its owner, which is why we strongly recommend that you never share your account with anyone.

  • Second, after digging into the origins of the funds involved in large transfers, we learned that almost all of them were directly involved in some form of Fraud and/or RMT. Obviously, Fraud is disallowed, and Real Money Trading (RMT) is absolutely against the rules.

Purchasing a high-cost run directly, or purchasing gold or items to exchange for a run, is likely to result in account action against the purchaser and in some cases the runner(s), as well. While the runner(s) may be unaware that the funds originated from Fraud/RMT, in fact they can be found to be in possession of stolen goods and their account may be impacted by that involvement.

In summary, the buying and selling of runs is acceptable, but ArenaNet does not officially support buyers or sellers. Buying or selling of runs is done at your own risk. If we investigate a transfer and establish that funds originated from fraud or RMT, we will take action against all parties involved. That action, depending on the situation, could include removal of funds, account suspension, and/or account termination.

Gaile Gray
Communications Manager: ArenaNet
Fansite & Guild Relations; In-Game Events; Community Showcase Live

Tagged:
<13

Comments

  • Finally its going too happend something

  • It's always been like that. You want to sell runs? Ok. You do not get paid or get paid with shady coin? You are on your own.

    High rewards often have high risks.

  • Tolmos.8395Tolmos.8395 Member ✭✭✭

    @FrizzFreston.5290 said:
    I have to say, that sounds like someone could merely implicate random people by sending them large amounts of money. Regardless of selling of completions.

    At a basis that any large sum is likely to come from a fraudulent source, and that your account may be held accountable merely because you're selling raids, providing other services and people send you this money.

    I think putting this out here like this sounds like "don't accept large amounts of money, or don't accept any money from unknown sources or even known sources because it may be gold or items from RMT. How are we as players supposed to know where the money comes from?

    That such funds or items get removed, is ofcourse fine, but account termination or banning for such thigns sounds iffy to me.

    In general, MMOs are designed to have decent enough logging to stop someone from getting banned just for that.

    If I send you a crapton of gold tonight, with the mail tag of "Thanks for buying my gold! Please shop again!", I would imagine that could trigger an investigation. But realistically, if you were the ONLY person that I sent money to like that, and my IP address that I logged in with came from the same geolocation as the majority of the rest of the time that I log in, that's gonna cast some pretty serious doubt that I'm a gold farmer and you're my buyer, regardless of what the mail says.

    On top of that, I'd be throwing away whatever account the gold originated from. You can't really "launder" money easily in MMOs... logs make things easy enough to trace. The best I could do is make a new account, level a new character to 80, and then farm a ton of money to send to you with that mail header just to get you banned. Sure, someone COULD do it, buy friend... if you've made someone THAT angry with you, time away from the game to reevaluate your life and how you treat people is probably for the best anyhow.

    Any other method of trying to pull this scheme off would get the sender's main account banned, and not many people would be willing to go with mutually assured destruction like that.

    The point is... it's unlikely. All sorts of things could trigger investigations, but the people doing the investigating are generally bright enough to figure out what's what.

  • Danikat.8537Danikat.8537 Member ✭✭✭✭

    This sounds like an incentive to avoid overcharging people for runs. Charge what most players can afford and they won't need to resort to illegally buying gold to pay it.

    (Although I imagine there's a lot of cross-over between people who are willing to buy runs and people who are willing to buy gold even if they can earn it themselves because they see it as the 'more efficient' option.)

    Danielle Aurorel - Desolation (EU). Mini Pet Collector.

    "Life's a journey, not a destination." "The truth is somewhere in the middle, that's why I prefer the edge."

  • Khisanth.2948Khisanth.2948 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 9, 2018

    @FrizzFreston.5290 said:
    I have to say, that sounds like someone could merely implicate random people by sending them large amounts of money. Regardless of selling of completions.

    At a basis that any large sum is likely to come from a fraudulent source, and that your account may be held accountable merely because you're selling raids, providing other services and people send you this money.

    I think putting this out here like this sounds like "don't accept large amounts of money, or don't accept any money from unknown sources or even known sources because it may be gold or items from RMT. How are we as players supposed to know where the money comes from?

    That such funds or items get removed, is ofcourse fine, but account termination or banning for such thigns sounds iffy to me.

    That is a non-problem. Just don't accept unexpected gold from strangers ...

    "impacted by that involvement" sounds like it is referring to the fact that the gold will get removed.

  • Silmar Alech.4305Silmar Alech.4305 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 10, 2018

    That means the runners gone too far with prices and Arenanet gone too far with the content. If there is content in the game with loot/reward that makes people buy it with money/rmt, not being able to fund it from ingame activity because prices are too high, than there is something wrong with the content. If content promotes unethical behavior, there is something wrong with the content.

    I sincerely hope, Arenanet addresses this problem not only by banning the unethical behavior but also by changing the content, so that this unethical behavior will not occur in the first place. Simply banning is no solution. A possible solution would be to add a PvE armor to the game, in addition to the existing raid armor. The raid armor is an armor for PvE mode, but it isn't available to the PvE players. It's available only to the raid players. Every persevering WvW player gets the WvW legendary armor sooner or later by simply grinding WvW hours, no matter if he excels in WvW or is mediocre. But the current raid PvE armor isn't available to any of us ordinary PvE players whose capabilities end at T4 fractal difficulty level and time investment, regardless of the thousands of hours we sink in that game mode. 6500 hours of pure PvE play? Irrelevant. Dungeoneer? Irrelevant. 50 ascended chests from T4 fractals? Irrelevant. I feel as I've been had.

    Find the secret message: +++++++[>++++[>+>+++>++++>++++<<<<-]<-]>>>-.>-------.+++.+.------------.>++.<<<++++.>>++++++.>.<--..>++.-.<<<+.

  • Laila Lightness.8742Laila Lightness.8742 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 9, 2018

    @Silmar Alech.4305 said:
    That means the runners gone too far with prices and Arenanet gone too far with the content. If there is content in the game with loot/reward that makes people buy it with money/rmt, not being able to fund it from ingame activity because prices are too high, than there is something wrong with the content. If content promotes unethical behavior, there is something wrong with the content.

    I sincerely hope, Arenanet addresses this problem not only by banning the unethical behavior but also by changing the content, so that this unethical behavior will not occur in the first place. Simply banning is no solution. A possible solution would be to add a PvE armor to the game, in addition to the existing raid armor. The raid armor is an armor for PvE mode, but it isn't available to the PvE players. It's available only to the raid players. Every persevering WvW player gets the WvW legendary armor sooner or later by simply grinding WvW hours, no matter if he excels in WvW or is mediocre. But the raid armor isn't available to any of us ordinary PvE players whose capabilities end at T4 fractal difficulty level and time investment, regardless of the thousands of hours we sink in that game mode. 6500 hours of pure PvE play? Irrelevant. Dungeoneer? Irrelevant. 50 ascended chests from T4 fractals? Irrelevant. I feel as I've been had.

    Make raids easier with no mechs is solution then no more raid sellers no more risks

  • @Oglaf.1074 said:
    Please update the LFG function to allow us who do not care for this practice at all to be able to filter LFG entires containing certain keywords (such as "Sell") out.

    If you block the run-seller, they will not show up in lfg

    @Palador.2170 said:
    Question: If I buy or sell something expensive through the auction house, and it's discovered that the person on the other end of the deal used fraud or RMT to get their part of the exchange, am I protected by having used the auction house? Or will my item and/or money be taken away as well?

    When buying from the Trading Post, you have no ability to know who sold to or bought from you, and you would not be liable for the outcome.

  • Gaarik.6804Gaarik.6804 Member ✭✭
    edited February 10, 2018

    @Malafaia.8903 said:

    @mercury ranique.2170 said:
    Thanks for the heads up. Some part I am missing is about the grieving involved in getting to a point to sell a run. There are reports of people in party being kicked shortly before the end , just to see the run being sold on the LFG. What is the stance on this? I would perosnally say that if a partymember was kicked it would become unethical to sell the run.

    this should get punished HARD

    You cannot kick people mid fight ,only leave.

  • Here is how I see the Selling of Runs:

    Add a Section in LFG to purchase a run..

    • Develop a payment system for the new run System LFG Function.
    • Allow the runner to accept a gold payment or item as payment
    • Allow the player getting a run to have the option to refuse payment if the runner does not fulfil his obligation.

    When I played Guild Wars Original there was always a group that would leave in the middle of a Lornar Pass Run.. Same thing with Mission runs. Which was unethical put it happens..

    In GW2 what I have seen is a Runner request payment at the start then leave, I have also seen them wait till the very end and leave after payment is give resulting in an incomplete run..

    This is just a suggestion on a way to mitigate this issue..

  • Gaarik.6804Gaarik.6804 Member ✭✭
    edited February 10, 2018

    @Wanze.8410 said:

    @Gaile Gray.6029 said:
    Over the last few months, we have seen a surge in the number of in-game sales related to the completion of challenging encounters and achievements. We've been gathering feedback both internally and externally and we wanted to provide some clarification to players about our policies on this subject.

    Reaching back to the roots of Guild Wars, selling "runs" has been a core role for certain members of our community. We recognize that some players are not able to complete all content. Other players have provided a service of convenience or carry through the years, and our official stance is that the selling or buying of runs is completely acceptable.

    However, there is a point where things get a little more tricky, such as when account sharing is involved, or when the transfer of enormous wealth for raid runs takes place. At this point, we believe we need to clarify a few things:

    • First, account sharing is incredibly risky, as it often leads to the compromise of the account, after which the account may be locked for an indefinite period of time, or permanently terminated. We very seldom are able to retrieve and return a previously shared account to its owner, which is why we strongly recommend that you never share your account with anyone.

    • Second, after digging into the origins of the funds involved in large transfers, we learned that almost all of them were directly involved in some form of Fraud and/or RMT. Obviously, Fraud is disallowed, and Real Money Trading (RMT) is absolutely against the rules.

    Purchasing a high-cost run directly, or purchasing gold or items to exchange for a run, is likely to result in account action against the purchaser and in some cases the runner(s), as well. While the runner(s) may be unaware that the funds originated from Fraud/RMT, in fact they can be found to be in possession of stolen goods and their account may be impacted by that involvement.

    In summary, the buying and selling of runs is acceptable, but ArenaNet does not officially support buyers or sellers. Buying or selling of runs is done at your own risk. If we investigate a transfer and establish that funds originated from fraud or RMT, we will take action against all parties involved. That action, depending on the situation, could include removal of funds, account suspension, and/or account termination.

    I thinks its mindboggling that you still give these guys a platform to advertise runs for sale in the LFG tool. A tool implemented to foster and encourage playing together as a community has become nothing more than a way to pay to win.

    But I kinda appreciate the irony that you, Anet, dont even get paid for the win but instead, these runners get the rewards, while you have to deal with the extra customer support issues that result from it and the financial loss from RMT it encourages and entails.

    This practice of selling raid runs only profits a fair few, while damaging the majority because it doesnt encourage teaching your fellow players.

    For a game studio that took pride in exploring new ways of developing this game in many facets, I question your policy in this regard just because it has been a core role for certain members of your community.

    After raids were announced for HoT, plenty of players asked for unique account bound rewards for arguably the most challenging content to distinguish themselves from players who didnt conquer this content.

    But once they got all those rewards unlocked and dont feel rewarded for their weekly runs anymore, they turn around and sell run completion to the very players they wanted to distinguish themselves from.

    If some players arent able to complete raid content, its your job as the developing game studio to make that content more accessible to those players. even if its for less rewards. Or find a way to give extra rewards to experienced players, who take the time and effort to teach or carry other players.

    Creating a grey market that obviously feeds from RMT is probably the worst solution here for you as a company and the majority of the player base.

    Thus the solution : make raids harder so that it ll be impossible to sell.

    @Brian Kuts.3701 said:
    Here is how I see the Selling of Runs:

    Add a Section in LFG to purchase a run..

    • Develop a payment system for the new run System LFG Function.
    • Allow the runner to accept a gold payment or item as payment
    • Allow the player getting a run to have the option to refuse payment if the runner does not fulfil his obligation.

    When I played Guild Wars Original there was always a group that would leave in the middle of a Lornar Pass Run.. Same thing with Mission runs. Which was unethical put it happens..

    In GW2 what I have seen is a Runner request payment at the start then leave, I have also seen them wait till the very end and leave after payment is give resulting in an incomplete run..

    This is just a suggestion on a way to mitigate this issue..

    Use services of established selling guilds instead of being cheap and buying it from random untested players.

  • @Oglaf.1074 said:
    Please update the LFG function to allow us who do not care for this practice at all to be able to filter LFG entires containing certain keywords (such as "Sell") out.

    Why? If the filter will go live people will stop selling and start s3lling or $€lling.

  • FrizzFreston.5290FrizzFreston.5290 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I don't really see how officially stating AND also pursuing people who sell "runs" would do anything but put it less on the foreground.

    Also unrelated is that most of the complaints are more about it being possible to be carried to the end of things rather than the actual selling.

    Portaling to the end of jumping puzzles is often "making a mockery of the jumping puzzle" But the consensus there is that it's mostly okay.

  • Oglaf.1074Oglaf.1074 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @DirtyDan.4759 said:

    @Oglaf.1074 said:
    Please update the LFG function to allow us who do not care for this practice at all to be able to filter LFG entires containing certain keywords (such as "Sell") out.

    Why? If the filter will go live people will stop selling and start s3lling or $€lling.

    No they won't.

    They want to sell their services, not annoy people.

    Please Anet give us a hide Chest Armour-option. Tattoo-clad Norns everywhere beg of you.

  • Silmar Alech.4305Silmar Alech.4305 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 10, 2018

    If I think about it further and how extraordinarily rare the skins and titles and are that are acquired by paid runs, and how narrow the raid community is, I come to the conclusion that after 1-2 years of constant selling there might be more players who bought runs to get these skins and titles than there are players who legitimately got them by mastering the contents.

    As as consequence, if I ever see such skin or title ingame, I will simply laugh and turn away, because I can safely assume this thing was bought and not earned. This view on these items is probably not what was intended by Arenanet, but the items are completely devaluated by the selling practice, even if still only 3% of the players have such a skin or title in the first place. 1% earned, 2% bought makes all 3% worthless. In consequence, the development time of that stuff was wasted, if the goal was to create a highly valuated rare ingame item that is shown with pride by the player who earned it.

    Find the secret message: +++++++[>++++[>+>+++>++++>++++<<<<-]<-]>>>-.>-------.+++.+.------------.>++.<<<++++.>>++++++.>.<--..>++.-.<<<+.

  • @Palador.2170 said:

    @Gaile Gray.6029 said:

    • Second, after digging into the origins of the funds involved in large transfers, we learned that almost all of them were directly involved in some form of Fraud and/or RMT. Obviously, Fraud is disallowed, and Real Money Trading (RMT) is absolutely against the rules.

    It sounds like this goes beyond buying/selling raids and the like, and ANY large transfer is suspect.

    Question: If I buy or sell something expensive through the auction house, and it's discovered that the person on the other end of the deal used fraud or RMT to get their part of the exchange, am I protected by having used the auction house? Or will my item and/or money be taken away as well?

    Well...

    While the runner(s) may be unaware that the funds originated from Fraud/RMT, in fact they can be found to be in possession of stolen goods and their account may be impacted by that involvement.

    The same goes for buying/selling in the trading post. "Impacted" doesn't mean your account would be banned or suspended. If you unknowingly receive ill-gotten gains, the gold/item(s) would be removed from your account with no other action taken, in most cases based on what I've observed over the years.

    Over the years I have seen (on the old forums) at least 1 case where a player who bought or sold (can't remember which) a high-valued item in the trading post had the gold or item from the sale removed from his/her account. A dev responded that the buyer got their gold or item through RMT and they had no choice but to remove the ill-gotten gold or item from the game. I think the player may have been able to get his/her gold or item back, since he/she bought or sold it in the trading post in good faith.

    Should such a thing happen where gold or an item is removed from your account that you got from the trading post, you can contact customer support to ask for your gold/item back since you bought/sold it in good faith. No guarantees though.

  • Bofouci.1320Bofouci.1320 Member ✭✭✭

    @Bofouci.1320 said:
    I want to start off with I do take part in raids and I never have nor will I ever play to be carried thru anything. I started from the bottom and worked my way thru PVE and crafting to gear up and pug'd a lot of end game content and luckily found a guild that does training runs. That being said; it does not help when every other raid group in LFG wants to see your LI/KP/Chest Piece/Weapon/Rotation/Boss Phase questionnaire/ETC..... I've joined armed forces, IRL, That aren't as demanding as these armchair heroes of the internet.

    Even worse still was once in a group I watched a commander in W1 kick a squad member because he couldn't provide enough LI's. Squad member kicked was sporting "The Eternal" title. kitten!

  • @Oglaf.1074 said:
    Please update the LFG function to allow us who do not care for this practice at all to be able to filter LFG entires containing certain keywords (such as "Sell") out.

    GW1 is a study in the utter pointlessness of this request.

  • Yasi.9065Yasi.9065 Member ✭✭✭

    Id really love to have a sub-category for selling/buying/advertising in raid lfg. Not only as a normal player, but also for my guild advertisements. Maybe Anet could change the sadly underused "looking for group" part of the raid lfg into an "other" sub-category?

  • Blude.6812Blude.6812 Member ✭✭✭

    @Gaile Gray.6029 said:

    • First, account sharing is incredibly risky, as it often leads to the compromise of the account, after which the account may be locked for an indefinite period of time, or permanently terminated. We very seldom are able to retrieve and return a previously shared account to its owner, which is why we strongly recommend that you never share your account with anyone.

    Account sharing is covered in the TOS, the TOS is quite clear----it isn't risky, it is not allowed. So just go by your own rules and ban them.

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Gaile Gray.6029 said:
    Over the last few months, we have seen a surge in the number of in-game sales related to the completion of challenging encounters and achievements. We've been gathering feedback both internally and externally and we wanted to provide some clarification to players about our policies on this subject.

    Reaching back to the roots of Guild Wars, selling "runs" has been a core role for certain members of our community. We recognize that some players are not able to complete all content. Other players have provided a service of convenience or carry through the years, and our official stance is that the selling or buying of runs is completely acceptable.

    However, there is a point where things get a little more tricky, such as when account sharing is involved, or when the transfer of enormous wealth for raid runs takes place. At this point, we believe we need to clarify a few things:

    • First, account sharing is incredibly risky, as it often leads to the compromise of the account, after which the account may be locked for an indefinite period of time, or permanently terminated. We very seldom are able to retrieve and return a previously shared account to its owner, which is why we strongly recommend that you never share your account with anyone.

    • Second, after digging into the origins of the funds involved in large transfers, we learned that almost all of them were directly involved in some form of Fraud and/or RMT. Obviously, Fraud is disallowed, and Real Money Trading (RMT) is absolutely against the rules.

    Purchasing a high-cost run directly, or purchasing gold or items to exchange for a run, is likely to result in account action against the purchaser and in some cases the runner(s), as well. While the runner(s) may be unaware that the funds originated from Fraud/RMT, in fact they can be found to be in possession of stolen goods and their account may be impacted by that involvement.

    In summary, the buying and selling of runs is acceptable, but ArenaNet does not officially support buyers or sellers. Buying or selling of runs is done at your own risk. If we investigate a transfer and establish that funds originated from fraud or RMT, we will take action against all parties involved. That action, depending on the situation, could include removal of funds, account suspension, and/or account termination.

    And how do you identify which pricepoint is acceptable? For someone 200g for a boss might be nothing since hes good at farming gold ingame while someone else needs to buy gems and turn into gold to do so. For various reasons.

  • Solvar.7953Solvar.7953 Member ✭✭✭

    @Malediktus.9250 said:
    I am not a "run" seller, but I think it is outrageous that you can get punished for accepting gold or items that a 3rd party bought and paid you with (as long as you accepted it in good faith and there was no clear evidience of it being RMT stuff)

    Try that in real life. Buy stolen property with no idea it was stolen - if later discovered it was stolen, it will be returned to the proper owner and you will not be compensated. Likewise, if you sold something and the person paid with a check that you thought was legitimate (but really forged/stolen), you are likely out of that money. So the ArenaNet policy is matching what does happen in the real world.
    The risk here increases with the price. If a run is being sold for 5g, likelihood of that gold being illegal gotten is low (since it isn't much), and even if it is, you are not out much if it is taken away. However, if the charge is 100 gold, both of those change.
    I suspect some of this policy is that gold farmers/fraudsters are moving money around on the basis 'it was a paid raid run'. So now 100 gold (or more) of improperly gained gold becomes legitimate gold in the system, so Anet had to do something about it.

  • Illconceived Was Na.9781Illconceived Was Na.9781 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 10, 2018

    @Malediktus.9250 said:
    I am not a "run" seller, but I think it is outrageous that you can get punished for accepting gold or items that a 3rd party bought and paid you with (as long as you accepted it in good faith and there was no clear evidience of it being RMT stuff)

    What she said was that your account can be impacted. If ANet determined you got paid with RMT gold, then they'd remove the gold from the economy, and you'd end up with nothing.

    You'd only get "punished" if it turns out you were knowingly facilitating the transfer into the game of RMT funds, e.g. if the person (foolishly) told you vial email the source of the gold.

    Gaile hasn't said anything new. These are the same standards ANet has always used in the game. All she's done is collate them into a single post.

    • Selling a spot is okay.
    • Advertising for goods is not okay.
    • Buyer and seller are at their own risk; if anything goes wrong, ANet isn't going to make good on the trade.
    • Buyer & seller need to be reasonably sensible about trusting the other party: if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. If the buyer accepts a super high price, be prepared to end up with nothing.
    • Don't share accounts and especially don't share your account details with anyone else.

    The fact is that these sorts of unofficial trades take place all the time and the vast majority of them work out fine. We only hear about the ones that go poorly; satisfied participants in the deals don't have anything worth writing about.

    "With great power comes not-so-great utility bills."

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Solvar.7953 said:

    @Malediktus.9250 said:
    I am not a "run" seller, but I think it is outrageous that you can get punished for accepting gold or items that a 3rd party bought and paid you with (as long as you accepted it in good faith and there was no clear evidience of it being RMT stuff)

    Try that in real life. Buy stolen property with no idea it was stolen - if later discovered it was stolen, it will be returned to the proper owner and you will not be compensated. Likewise, if you sold something and the person paid with a check that you thought was legitimate (but really forged/stolen), you are likely out of that money. So the ArenaNet policy is matching what does happen in the real world.
    The risk here increases with the price. If a run is being sold for 5g, likelihood of that gold being illegal gotten is low (since it isn't much), and even if it is, you are not out much if it is taken away. However, if the charge is 100 gold, both of those change.
    I suspect some of this policy is that gold farmers/fraudsters are moving money around on the basis 'it was a paid raid run'. So now 100 gold (or more) of improperly gained gold becomes legitimate gold in the system, so Anet had to do something about it.

    Not everything here is with stolen money. That could aply to literally everything in the game that invloves rl money. From gemstore purchases to gold purchases with gold bought with gems. Its anet's job to find and ban these ppl. Seller put up a price and buyers are advised heavily to either farm the price or use rl money to buy gold in game. That feature has exusted fir years idk why its bad only clear sellers.

  • Dzjudz.9142Dzjudz.9142 Member ✭✭✭

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 :

    If the buy accepts a super high price, be prepared to end up with nothing.

    What is a super high price? For example, on NA the raid sell prices are much higher than on EU. Also, on EU at least, there is lots of competition, so the market kind of corrects itself. If there weren't buyers for prices, the prices would go down. Don't tell me every single buyer of the dozens of buyers every day are using RMT to obtain their funds.

    Main char: Samara
    [NLT] Nederlandstalige guild
    [US] Raid selling guild on EU

  • JVJD.4912JVJD.4912 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 10, 2018

    Ok so now let us use lfg for looking for groups not as advertisement lounge for ppl to sell runs to come on voip to discuss further

    Thanx :)

  • KIRPAT.2194KIRPAT.2194 Member
    edited February 10, 2018

    I always appreciated how Anet treats players equally when things come to in-game progression. Game mechanics or developers do not favor some players over others. Everyone stands on the equal ground. For example, if someone has a Title or Item that is only obtainable by learning, practicing and overcoming a certain challenge, in my eyes, there was no other way to get that Title or Item. And players who had them also had the prestige of being a good player. Because they play, and play hard!

    Well Anet, you just threw that image into the trash can. You just made rewards from challenging PvE content meaningless. (At least in my eyes.) From now on, once the PvE content completed for fun, there is no further incentive for me to come back and visit them again. (Hell, I can watch it on YouTube, no need to play the game at all. )

  • @Wanze.8410 said:
    This practice of selling raid runs only profits a fair few, while damaging the majority because it doesnt encourage teaching your fellow players.
    Creating a grey market that obviously feeds from RMT is probably the worst solution here for you as a company and the majority of the player base.

    Whats the difference between selling raids and using /r/gw2exchange? In both cases, people are participating in the grey market, offering something of value to a willing purchaser. I don't see why this encourages people to RMT anymore than buying a Confetti or Chak infusion would, since at more than 10k gold those are even more out of reach of the "typical" player than buying raids.

    Just like people can choose to learn how to make gold via the TP, as you do, people can choose to learn how to raid. And just as people might choose to use their credit card to convert RL cash to gems to gold to buy a fancy infusion, why isn't also okay for them to choose to spend that gold on a service?

    Of course there are problems associated with selling raids, but there are also issues with the Exchange. (And, importantly, one of the reasons why there are relatively few problems with the exchange is that you and your fellow moderators of the subreddit take great pains to ensure transparency (including the newer rule of requiring people to post their IGN).

    On the whole, I'd say the bigger threat to the game is from people who /kick folks near the final encounter of raids or fractals, to allow their friends in. While that's probably an issue smaller in magnitude than we think, it can impact anyone who PUGs, not just people choosing to participate in the grey market.

    "With great power comes not-so-great utility bills."

  • Oglaf.1074Oglaf.1074 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dzjudz.9142 said:

    @DirtyDan.4759 said:

    @Oglaf.1074 said:
    Please update the LFG function to allow us who do not care for this practice at all to be able to filter LFG entires containing certain keywords (such as "Sell") out.

    Why? If the filter will go live people will stop selling and start s3lling or $€lling.

    Of course not. I'm a raid seller. I would be happy for people who don't want to see the advertisement to be able to filter for example -sell in the LFG tab. How would circumventing their filter with for example s3ll help me in any way? If they bother to filter the ad out, they aren't interested in buying anyway (or they wouldn't filter it out).

    Precisely. It is self-correcting like that.

    Besides, we’re long overdue to be able to filter LFG in more ways. For example I don’t speak either German nor French so groups tagged with the little flags are entirely pointless to me other than a warning to stay away. Let me filter those out, too.

    Please Anet give us a hide Chest Armour-option. Tattoo-clad Norns everywhere beg of you.

<13
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