Scrapper has no place in pve?

i really like the idea of the big hammer engi. why does he seem to have no place in pve?

I've been having the thought that maybe, and just maybe, Scrapper tank could sart being a thing (if they fix the damn bug in adaptive armor), but if chronotank is still relevant and fine, then this idea will be worthless, becuase:

Class that can tank & bring utility > Class that can tank & only tank.

One of my friends thought that maybe scrapper could become a PS Scrapper, a mix of dps and might provider via blast fields, i don't see how that would workout, but it got me intsrested nonetheless.

It's certainly not meta. Even if you accept non-meta as a valid play, I find it offers very little interesting play beyond core engi; the class is designed at it's core to use some kits. The new trait barriers are not more effective than simply changing out some stats to toughness or using scrapper runes; it's an odd implementation. I suppose if you want to increase your active defensive capability, Hammer is nice and it's DPS isn't a disaster, but the traits don't really fit PVE too well.

@MrMojoRisin.7364 said:i really like the idea of the big hammer engi. why does he seem to have no place in pve?

Because Arenanet doesn't seem to have the intention of redesigning it for pve uses, which is sad.

The scrapper was always designed as a front-liner. He can definitely tank in PvE but he brings no support so a chronotank will always be a better solution for the grump.

So do not expect it on raids. But you can use it fine for dungeons and open world. And gyros can be situationally useful in fractals.

The problem with the scrapper was that after the big nerf it was useless even in PvP and WvW.Hopefully the barrier change will fix him a bit.

@Akeno.4962 said:

@MrMojoRisin.7364 said:i really like the idea of the big hammer engi. why does he seem to have no place in pve?

I kinda get that. You cannot stack the game with Elite Specs that can do everything. The whole point of the system that each Spec has some specialty so that the system will be expandable as more Spec are added.

@MrMojoRisin.7364 said:i really like the idea of the big hammer engi. why does he seem to have no place in pve?

I play scrapper in PvE and I get no complaints - stuns, burst heal, reflects, gyros. (im zerk/valk)However the new elites always trump core and previous elite specs - when they should all be equal and playable - not one over the other

@MrMojoRisin.7364 said:i really like the idea of the big hammer engi. why does he seem to have no place in pve?

Because it provides no utility beyond tankiness and subpar DPS. Most tank builds in PvE also provide other buffs, such as might, alacrity, quickness, healing, or just decent DPS.

Scrapper is tanky, to be sure, but that's all it really offers.

@Ivantreil.3092 said:Scrapper tank could sart being a thing (if they fix the kitten bug in adaptive armor)

Adaptive Armor is working as intended. It’s just the Barrier applies BEFORE the hit so you don’t see the barrier. It’s already low (1K only) so you don’t see it when something more then 1K hits you.

@Turin.6921 said:I kinda get that. You cannot stack the game with Elite Specs that can do everything. The whole point of the system that each Spec has some specialty so that the system will be expandable as more Spec are added.

As everything, it depends on the glass you're looking through.

Every set of weapon, traits and mechanics that defines a spec could be considered tools. Let's look at chrono's Continuum Split: It's a very open tool that enables tons of configurations, strategies, trait interactions... Chronomancers have very diverse builds in pve and pvp because of that. In WvW they're more limited, not by the spec mechanic by itself but by the class mechanic: clones (before, any illusion) will die in such a crowded fight without achieving its purpose.

Specs that specialize in a single game mode could be seen as having very limited resources or very specific tools. Or not. Look at Spellbreaker. Right now, it has builds in all 3 game modes. Why? Because even if it's designed as a pvp duelist, many of its mechanics have been successfully translated to WvW (specially its boon hate options) and to PvE (both its boon hate for high level fractals, and daggers and full counter damage for general raids).

Now look at scrapper. Its main mechanic is function gyro, whose usability is very limited and it doesn't add any gameplay at all to base engineer. There's at least one trait in each tier that simply are uninteresting or are remnants of the old scrapper gameplay: Shocking Speed, Expert Examination, and Applied Force. Hammer damage has been severely watered down in every single game mode, even if it meant no problems in PvE, and doesn't have so many defensive options in a traditional way: it has a way to counter projectiles and a block, but you can't choose the exact moment when you evade with Rocket Charge, nor you can't stun a defiant enemy in PvE or an entire blob of enemies in WvW to protect yourself at any time. And then gyros... minions aren't great in this game, why would anyone add minions to a class that already has minions that don't work?

Tell me, wouldn't you love a revamp so that scrapper worked like spellbreaker? Using more generalized tools and a mechanic that makes it different from the core class? It doesn't have to be a pve-centric or wvw-centric spec, spellbreaker isn't. It just has to offer options, a varied gameplay. When a spec offers that, you can bet at least two gamemodes will use it at some point. Pvp people are still arguing whether the last changes make scrapper viable or not. And If it isn't, it won't be played seriously in any game mode until the next balance patch hits, if there are any changes to scrapper at all.

It's pretty obvious that the function gyro "mechanic" was because they couldn't think of anything much better for engineers. Photon forge is at least fleshed out. Function gyro? Nah, doesn't even have any ancilliary purposes besides getting downed allies up, or downed foes dead, which severely hampers its usefulness in PvE.

Not to advertise, but I just posted my ideas for Scrapper titled "An Idea To Fix Gyros AND The Theme of Scrapper". I don't know if this would be a good enough change but I think it could work.

Link: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/28280/an-idea-to-fix-gyros-and-the-theme-of-scrapper#latest

@"Vagrant.7206" said:It's pretty obvious that the function gyro "mechanic" was because they couldn't think of anything much better for engineers. Photon forge is at least fleshed out. Function gyro? Nah, doesn't even have any ancilliary purposes besides getting downed allies up, or downed foes dead, which severely hampers its usefulness in PvE.

Function gyro is a failed design choice that i'm pretty sure they are aware of, just looking at holosmith.

Dont even understand why the first elite spec was not Golemancer.

Chronotank still exists and it is still pretty strong. Scrapper would have to have group support traits and gyros would have to mimic wells in some way for any transition to happen.

I think pve scrapper can actually work, though. Because now they can convert removed condis to boons instead, keeping a great uptime on boons based on the encounter. If the encounter applies lots of condi (sloth) then you can cleanse it all and convert it to boons. Not to mention it can now also being some group heal to the scene as well with other trait synergies. It's all a matter of whether or not someone wants to spend the time looking for a proper build that will do this.

@MrMojoRisin.7364 said:i really like the idea of the big hammer engi. why does he seem to have no place in pve?

I've been playing PvE with a Scrapper geared with full ascended commander stats, and a decent custom build with no problems. It's not meta but I find it fun to play as Scrapper in PvE and PvP.