who the hell are dungeons tuned for? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

who the hell are dungeons tuned for?

No wonder no one does dungeons any more in this game. Trying to do Twilight Arbor on my Warrior cause I like the skins from there and Im setting new records for being downed. I dont even die this much doing Fractals. Hell in just this run, that isnt even over yet, I have died more than I died all week doing daily fractals. I got downed on pretty much every trash pack. Need to run back? Thats nice the poison flowers of death have respawned so now you are dead again. The first spider boss puts up red circles that I didnt even have time to react to before I was downed. So far wiped 4 times on last boss and half the group left so I proly not even gonna finish the thing. Also so far dont have any drops from here so can someone please tell me who came up with the genius idea to use ultra murder mode on a dungeon that doesnt even guarantee you get anything from doing it?

<13

Comments

  • Dabrixmgp.4758Dabrixmgp.4758 Member ✭✭
    edited February 11, 2018

    so if dungeons are tuned just fine then why does no one do them anymore? Im all for a challenge but this is ridiculous. Actually they are leveling dungeons because they do scale you down. If I want a challenge I will do T4 fractals or raids. This is a dungeon meant for level 55 players so why is it this ridiculous?

  • Kheldorn.5123Kheldorn.5123 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ReaverKane.7598 said:

    @Dabrixmgp.4758 said:
    so if dungeons are tuned just fine then why does no one do them anymore? Im all for a challenge but this is ridiculous. Actually they are leveling dungeons because they do scale you down. If I want a challenge I will do T4 fractals or raids. This is a dungeon meant for level 55 players so why is it this ridiculous?

    Answer is easy... When they removed support for dungeons they broke their rewards.
    You get ~15g easily in 30 minutes of T4 fractals, while you need 8 dungeon paths for the 5 gold reward. So people won't do those as often.

    That you consider them harder, that's more telling of how bad you are as a player than how bad dungeons are themselves. I've 3-4 manned that particular dungeon recently with ease (needed the tokens, didn't want to wait for a PUG).

    Dungeons are, in general, super easy, and yes, if you're doing it like Rambo, thinking you're all that great because you do T4 fractals, TA especially, will be punishing.

    This is not entirely true. You put 15g fractal reward comparison while counting all drops, matrixes, doing CMs and selling mats. For dungeons you just say 5g from the achievements. This is false comparison. After they boosted token reward for dungeons, the overall reward from dungeons went up back to almost what it was before gold nerf.

  • Kheldorn.5123Kheldorn.5123 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @CptAurellian.9537 said:
    Dungeons were designed for vanilla specs, which means they're rather faceroll nowadays if you know what to do. The latter part is the problem though - ever since dungeons were abandoned design-wise, there's not so many people around who actually know what to do. That lack of knowledge combined with quite a bunch of bad (or non-existing) tells for deadly attacks, bugs and vastly different boss difficulty profiles makes dungeons seem more difficult than they are. Fractals, on the other hand, are something most people will at least have some routine for, so they appear rather easy.

    It's worth mentioning that OP provides valid concern. These are leveling dungeons - even explorable paths. They are expected to be easy for leveling characters, meanwhile a full 80 party can wipe if they miss single dodge. This is misleading for new players, which are playing dungeons these days mostly (in comparison to old times when dungeon runs were considered endgame).

  • Moogri.1935Moogri.1935 Member ✭✭
    edited February 11, 2018

    It's quite a shame that the reduction of dungeon desirability among the experienced dungeon players has caused such a slow (if I dare say, halt) of knowledge being passed down to newer players. Back when I was new to dungeons there was at least one experienced person in the party to show us the ropes and I eventually learned many tricks that I would eventually be able to lead a less experienced team through myself relatively quickly. If this post is anything to go by, it's quite sad to see this knowledge not being passed on, with only parties of newbies being created getting facerolled by the dungeons due to the absence of a mentor. But as above posts have mentioned the rewards are relatively bad such that even if there was a "mentor" in the party, unless they were feeling extra charitable, they may not choose to stay due to the lackluster reward to effort ratio. And this is another reason why many people don't run dungeons - you don't know who you're going to get. Most of the experienced players just want to speedclear it, and with the reduction of dungeon desirability the chance that you'll find other experienced players is low (except on maybe a dungeon daily day), and many just don't want to even roll that dice. The rewards need to be adjusted somehow if it is to be desirable again. Even when a dungeon daily is on rotation you hardly find anyone running them, and that's saying something.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    That spider boss follows a predictable script so it’s pretty easy to avoid it’s attack. You could probably do it blindfolded as I think the entire sequence could be set to a timer.

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Fun fact if you stand in his poison spray and dont remove the poison you do more damage to boss.

  • mazut.4296mazut.4296 Member ✭✭✭

    pre HoT builds/power level.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 11, 2018

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:
    This is not entirely true. You put 15g fractal reward comparison while counting all drops, matrixes, doing CMs and selling mats.

    Actually that's just the trash drops from fractal encryption boxes alone that give you ~10-15g per full run (3xt4+3 recommended). Drops from mobs, dailies, CM, mats sold etc are on top of that.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Kheldorn.5123Kheldorn.5123 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:
    This is not entirely true. You put 15g fractal reward comparison while counting all drops, matrixes, doing CMs and selling mats.

    Actually that's just the fractal encryption boxes alone that give you ~10-15g per full run (3xt4+3 recommended). Drops from mobs, dailies, CM etc are on top of that.

    From my experience vendor trash from boxes gives me about 7-8g and I get 12-15 only after selling stuff.

  • Dungeon rewards are better now than they were before HoT launched (which was when the rewards were nerfed). They take a different form in that to get "better" rewards, you need to do 8 unique paths and make use of the tokens obtained, i.e. less comes in raw gold, more in tokens. There are several posts on the forums & Reddit that document the amounts.

    However, the rewards for doing other things is also better. Silverwastes & Istan can be 'farmed' more efficiently, and you can throw in a few other metas for variety.

    So primarily what's changed is that, back in days of yore, Dungeons were the only way to make gold consistently versus today when there are all sorts of ways. I can't imagine anyone who did a dozen CoF paths per day in 2013 ever wanting to return to that dungeon, unless it had stellar rewards.


    Separately, dungeons are tuned for pre-HoT builds. As @Ojimaru.8970 said, they are even doable in level-appropriate rare gear (or sometimes even masterwork), although there's no reason to put that to the test. If the OP is having trouble, then I'm sure the usual reason applies: it's about learning the mechanics and executing on them; build is far less important. The OP probably knows that holds true for fractals; they just need to remind themself that it's also true in dungeons.

    Once the OP reads up on the mechanics (or watches some of the solo videos out there), I'm sure they won't have any trouble... at least, if we take them at their word about being up for a challenge.

    "Face the facts. Then act on them. It's ...the only doctrine I have to offer you, & it's harder than you'd think, because I swear humans seem hardwired to do anything but. Face the facts. Don't pray, don't wish, ...FACE THE FACTS. THEN act." — Quellcrist Falconer

  • I can solo TA path up on my ele and thief no problem. You just don't know what you're doing yet so you're getting rekt

  • ReaverKane.7598ReaverKane.7598 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 12, 2018

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @ReaverKane.7598 said:

    @Dabrixmgp.4758 said:
    so if dungeons are tuned just fine then why does no one do them anymore? Im all for a challenge but this is ridiculous. Actually they are leveling dungeons because they do scale you down. If I want a challenge I will do T4 fractals or raids. This is a dungeon meant for level 55 players so why is it this ridiculous?

    Answer is easy... When they removed support for dungeons they broke their rewards.
    You get ~15g easily in 30 minutes of T4 fractals, while you need 8 dungeon paths for the 5 gold reward. So people won't do those as often.

    That you consider them harder, that's more telling of how bad you are as a player than how bad dungeons are themselves. I've 3-4 manned that particular dungeon recently with ease (needed the tokens, didn't want to wait for a PUG).

    Dungeons are, in general, super easy, and yes, if you're doing it like Rambo, thinking you're all that great because you do T4 fractals, TA especially, will be punishing.

    This is not entirely true. You put 15g fractal reward comparison while counting all drops, matrixes, doing CMs and selling mats. For dungeons you just say 5g from the achievements. This is false comparison. After they boosted token reward for dungeons, the overall reward from dungeons went up back to almost what it was before gold nerf.

    No, i'm just comparing what you get from selling the junk in encryption boxes (which is the gold reward in fractals) to the gold reward in dungeons.
    If i took into account infusions, materials, exotics and ascended mats, it would vary too much, like when you get an elonian leather, that's 8-10g there.

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:
    This is not entirely true. You put 15g fractal reward comparison while counting all drops, matrixes, doing CMs and selling mats.

    Actually that's just the fractal encryption boxes alone that give you ~10-15g per full run (3xt4+3 recommended). Drops from mobs, dailies, CM etc are on top of that.

    From my experience vendor trash from boxes gives me about 7-8g and I get 12-15 only after selling stuff.

    You're not that well experienced then.

  • When running old dungeons, blinds and reflects are king. If you can keep a blinding field up, the enemies can chewed up.

    "Self awareness is knowing when you're sitting at the throne of ignorance." --Leo G.

  • @Dabrixmgp.4758 said:
    so if dungeons are tuned just fine then why does no one do them anymore? Im all for a challenge but this is ridiculous. Actually they are leveling dungeons because they do scale you down. If I want a challenge I will do T4 fractals or raids. This is a dungeon meant for level 55 players so why is it this ridiculous?

    You can kill the flowers with 1 attack or two with range weapon. Back in the days, guardians is the preferred class for staff #1 mows down all the flowers infront. The dungeon is level 40-45 but I do encounter players 45+ with lv35 ish equipments and if I recall, we don't get much accessories equipment below 80. Most party will try to skip as much as possible, which can be hard for new players. (They kinda expect others are experienced)

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 12, 2018

    @Dabrixmgp.4758 said:
    so if dungeons are tuned just fine then why does no one do them anymore? Im all for a challenge but this is ridiculous. Actually they are leveling dungeons because they do scale you down. If I want a challenge I will do T4 fractals or raids. This is a dungeon meant for level 55 players so why is it this ridiculous?

    Dungeons have been completed by players for over 5 years now. You're lack of success has nothing to do with how the dungeons are 'tuned'.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • It is an interesting idea. But it's hard for me imagine how new players/core game (free account players) will be able to survive tho. If the dungeons are tuned to HoT or PoF mechanics, some core classes might not be able to handle. I do agree some of the dungeons can be polished, but I don't think there will be much change, to me at least. The core game mechanics are too different to create any challenging content aside adding more hp/ dmg.

  • Nephalem.8921Nephalem.8921 Member ✭✭✭

    You can completely annihilate most bosses with just 2 competent players. They are way undertuned right now. The reason why you have problems is probably because most of the T4 fractals outside of 99, 100 and oasis don't require any dodges or special profession abilities like blinds or reflects to complete.
    Dungeon bosses still have 1 hit kills and really high damage auto attacks.
    Most dungeon bosses don't have huge orange circles you can walk out within 3sec. You have to watch animations most of the time. The spider boss for example has 2 attacks. A poison spray with low damage and unblockable aoe fields that do dmg on impact and when passing through a player. She also takes additional dmg for a few sec from targets that got hit by her poison spray.
    Best way to deal with her if you have a low dps grp is:
    1 Wait for first attack. Animations are similar but not the same. If you don't know them just stay at like 600 range.
    Is it poison spray? Stay in it for 1-2 ticks
    Is it aoe barrage? Dodge towards spider so you dodge the aoe and the projectiles. Care, projectiles are slow moving so dont dodge too early.
    Next attack will be the spray and just do step 2 after it.
    2 Break her and do as much damage as possible.

    She alternates between her 2 attacks, so its easy to know what she is doing.
    And strategies like that exist for every dungeon boss. Or you ignore all of this and just get 2+ dps players and kill bosses in ~2sec.

  • @Oglaf.1074 said:
    To me the solution to make dungeons popular again seems so painfully obvious that I don’t understand why Anet haven’t done it already:

    Because they don't want to do any work at all on dungeons, including figuring out how to balance a new set of rewards. Dungeons have perfectly fine rewards and people do them a fair bit now. They aren't as popular now because there's competition for people's time.

    "Face the facts. Then act on them. It's ...the only doctrine I have to offer you, & it's harder than you'd think, because I swear humans seem hardwired to do anything but. Face the facts. Don't pray, don't wish, ...FACE THE FACTS. THEN act." — Quellcrist Falconer

  • Henry.5713Henry.5713 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 12, 2018

    You basically expected to walk into dungeons like you walk into the personal story. Dungeons were never intended to be that. They were the repeatable and supposedly challenging instant content of their time. Still, I won't deny that the story modes can be a bit of a newbie trap sometimes. Something that might have gotten toned down slightly, and has been done so in some cases, if they had continued to work on dungeons. That said, dungeons are content which is in fact quite easy as it was not designed to be ran with all of the power creep that happened over the years.

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

    @Oglaf.1074 said:
    To me the solution to make dungeons popular again seems so painfully obvious that I don’t understand why Anet haven’t done it already:

    Because they don't want to do any work at all on dungeons, including figuring out how to balance a new set of rewards. Dungeons have perfectly fine rewards and people do them a fair bit now. They aren't as popular now because there's competition for people's time.

    Oglaf has a point here. There is a huge difference in the quality of the rewards given. Fractals, the most obvious comparison, rewards you with SO much more than just gold while gold is thrown at you everywhere these days. Updating the rewards only would be quite an easy solution to put new life back into dungeons even if it would be more of a band-aid than anything else. The real solution requires a lot of work as it would come down to rebalancing and even reworking dungeons to meet the standards of quality content we expect to see in 2018. Rather unlike, I'd say.

    Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something. ~ Robert Heinlein

  • Kheldorn.5123Kheldorn.5123 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ReaverKane.7598 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @ReaverKane.7598 said:

    @Dabrixmgp.4758 said:
    so if dungeons are tuned just fine then why does no one do them anymore? Im all for a challenge but this is ridiculous. Actually they are leveling dungeons because they do scale you down. If I want a challenge I will do T4 fractals or raids. This is a dungeon meant for level 55 players so why is it this ridiculous?

    Answer is easy... When they removed support for dungeons they broke their rewards.
    You get ~15g easily in 30 minutes of T4 fractals, while you need 8 dungeon paths for the 5 gold reward. So people won't do those as often.

    That you consider them harder, that's more telling of how bad you are as a player than how bad dungeons are themselves. I've 3-4 manned that particular dungeon recently with ease (needed the tokens, didn't want to wait for a PUG).

    Dungeons are, in general, super easy, and yes, if you're doing it like Rambo, thinking you're all that great because you do T4 fractals, TA especially, will be punishing.

    This is not entirely true. You put 15g fractal reward comparison while counting all drops, matrixes, doing CMs and selling mats. For dungeons you just say 5g from the achievements. This is false comparison. After they boosted token reward for dungeons, the overall reward from dungeons went up back to almost what it was before gold nerf.

    No, i'm just comparing what you get from selling the junk in encryption boxes (which is the gold reward in fractals) to the gold reward in dungeons.
    If i took into account infusions, materials, exotics and ascended mats, it would vary too much, like when you get an elonian leather, that's 8-10g there.

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:
    This is not entirely true. You put 15g fractal reward comparison while counting all drops, matrixes, doing CMs and selling mats.

    Actually that's just the fractal encryption boxes alone that give you ~10-15g per full run (3xt4+3 recommended). Drops from mobs, dailies, CM etc are on top of that.

    From my experience vendor trash from boxes gives me about 7-8g and I get 12-15 only after selling stuff.

    You're not that well experienced then.

    Pretty sad to see an intelligent person like you using arguments of "because I said so" :)

  • Dungeons can be lower levels content tho. Fractals is after all 80s content and there are tiers. Can't compare a T4 with ascalon, TA or any lower dungeons to have the same reward....I believe T2-T3 fractal offers the same amt as dungeon tho. Considering the reward base on fractal itself (excluding the T4 dailies is argueable). Plus need to be easily accessible for low level core game only players (without specialization with incomplete limited skill).

    Try or imagine core game lvling characters with blue and greens, incomplete traits trying to kill ascalon Champion Troll is painful enough. The game has far evolved to for the core game to have the same mechanics implemented.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:
    This is not entirely true. You put 15g fractal reward comparison while counting all drops, matrixes, doing CMs and selling mats.

    Actually that's just the fractal encryption boxes alone that give you ~10-15g per full run (3xt4+3 recommended). Drops from mobs, dailies, CM etc are on top of that.

    From my experience vendor trash from boxes gives me about 7-8g and I get 12-15 only after selling stuff.

    That's weird. I don't think encryption boxes are affected by MF, so i can't see a reason for such disparity. For me, 8g is a really, really low result.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • ProtoGunner.4953ProtoGunner.4953 Member ✭✭✭✭

    TA is very easy. You get downed fast, true, but usually you kill enemies off in seconds, so it doesn't matter. I did them more or less regularly with some guildies/friends and we do the 2 paths in like 20-30mins, I usually go down 2-3 times then. You skip most nightmare court parts and run through it.

  • Fallesafe.5932Fallesafe.5932 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 12, 2018

    @Dabrixmgp.4758 said:
    No wonder no one does dungeons any more in this game. Trying to do Twilight Arbor on my Warrior cause I like the skins from there and Im setting new records for being downed. I dont even die this much doing Fractals. Hell in just this run, that isnt even over yet, I have died more than I died all week doing daily fractals. I got downed on pretty much every trash pack. Need to run back? Thats nice the poison flowers of death have respawned so now you are dead again. The first spider boss puts up red circles that I didnt even have time to react to before I was downed. So far wiped 4 times on last boss and half the group left so I proly not even gonna finish the thing. Also so far dont have any drops from here so can someone please tell me who came up with the genius idea to use ultra murder mode on a dungeon that doesnt even guarantee you get anything from doing it?

    I've been pugging T4 fractals for over half a year on a glass character. And I'm usually (~70% of the time) the last one to go down or /gg when my groups wipe. But, I got absolutely demolished in Twilight Arbor. It was embarrassing! And I had to chalk it up to the fact that I cared intensely about learning fractal mechanics, and spent a lot of time studying/practicing. But I just ran into that dungeon swinging like a fool.

    What I'm saying is... stop underestimating your opponent. :) The fact that it's a level 50-something dungeon doesn't make any difference because of scaling. Fire up those youtube videos and learn what you're doing.

  • Sojourner.4621Sojourner.4621 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 12, 2018

    @CptAurellian.9537 said:
    Dungeons were designed for vanilla specs, which means they're rather faceroll nowadays if you know what to do. The latter part is the problem though - ever since dungeons were abandoned design-wise, there's not so many people around who actually know what to do. That lack of knowledge combined with quite a bunch of bad (or non-existing) tells for deadly attacks, bugs and vastly different boss difficulty profiles makes dungeons seem more difficult than they are. Fractals, on the other hand, are something most people will at least have some routine for, so they appear rather easy.

    This is it exactly. You know the fractals and the fractals are easy because you've now done them hundreds of times and know the mechanics and trouble areas. The dungeons, you can skip a lot of the trash mobs, and some of them are specifically there to HURT and PUNISH you for running past them unprepared (The nightmare hounds can and will one shot you if you don't evade while moving past them, for instance). It is all about knowing the mechanics of the path you're trying to run... for the record, I am not a great player but because I know the path well, I with my RP partner have two-manned both of the non-aether paths recently, using a Reaper and a Soulbeast (Trying to get nightmare runes). We're players from back when dungeons were relevant, and as such remember the strategies for doing them, which makes them fairly routine and simple... with a 5 man group for which the dungeons were actually intended, it's a face-roll with the current power creep levels. There are very few dungeon paths that can't be solo'd or duo'd and those are just because they require a certain number of people to stand in certain places.

  • Despond.2174Despond.2174 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 12, 2018

    Out of all the dungeons, only 1 path which is in TA is long/hard to pug. The rest is a joke and I've never had any issues even with sub 80s. Of course if you pick the hardest one it will be difficult, but choose the easier 2 paths for TA if you're hunting currency and do only the difficult one ONCE for the AP.

    Dungeon difficulty is designed for sub 80s, core specs. I would put all non-TA--path 3 I think it is?--around a T1-1.5 fractal difficulty. You don't even need close to a full group, I remember my reaper practically soloing everything. My point is the tuning for 95% of the paths are fine.

    But yes, I still have nightmare about that TA path where it took my group 2 hours, the ooze part is the biggest culprit.

  • ReaverKane.7598ReaverKane.7598 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @ReaverKane.7598 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @ReaverKane.7598 said:

    @Dabrixmgp.4758 said:
    so if dungeons are tuned just fine then why does no one do them anymore? Im all for a challenge but this is ridiculous. Actually they are leveling dungeons because they do scale you down. If I want a challenge I will do T4 fractals or raids. This is a dungeon meant for level 55 players so why is it this ridiculous?

    Answer is easy... When they removed support for dungeons they broke their rewards.
    You get ~15g easily in 30 minutes of T4 fractals, while you need 8 dungeon paths for the 5 gold reward. So people won't do those as often.

    That you consider them harder, that's more telling of how bad you are as a player than how bad dungeons are themselves. I've 3-4 manned that particular dungeon recently with ease (needed the tokens, didn't want to wait for a PUG).

    Dungeons are, in general, super easy, and yes, if you're doing it like Rambo, thinking you're all that great because you do T4 fractals, TA especially, will be punishing.

    This is not entirely true. You put 15g fractal reward comparison while counting all drops, matrixes, doing CMs and selling mats. For dungeons you just say 5g from the achievements. This is false comparison. After they boosted token reward for dungeons, the overall reward from dungeons went up back to almost what it was before gold nerf.

    No, i'm just comparing what you get from selling the junk in encryption boxes (which is the gold reward in fractals) to the gold reward in dungeons.
    If i took into account infusions, materials, exotics and ascended mats, it would vary too much, like when you get an elonian leather, that's 8-10g there.

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:
    This is not entirely true. You put 15g fractal reward comparison while counting all drops, matrixes, doing CMs and selling mats.

    Actually that's just the fractal encryption boxes alone that give you ~10-15g per full run (3xt4+3 recommended). Drops from mobs, dailies, CM etc are on top of that.

    From my experience vendor trash from boxes gives me about 7-8g and I get 12-15 only after selling stuff.

    You're not that well experienced then.

    Pretty sad to see an intelligent person like you using arguments of "because I said so" :)

    I'm not the one saying because i said so...
    It's a fact that if you do all T4 + recomendeds you'll get ~15g or more, just from encryptions.> @Eramonster.2718 said:

    Dungeons can be lower levels content tho. Fractals is after all 80s content and there are tiers. Can't compare a T4 with ascalon, TA or any lower dungeons to have the same reward....I believe T2-T3 fractal offers the same amt as dungeon tho. Considering the reward base on fractal itself (excluding the T4 dailies is argueable). Plus need to be easily accessible for low level core game only players (without specialization with incomplete limited skill).

    Try or imagine core game lvling characters with blue and greens, incomplete traits trying to kill ascalon Champion Troll is painful enough. The game has far evolved to for the core game to have the same mechanics implemented.

    First time i did AC story i was ~lvl 35. Everyone else was below 80, because basically, there were no lvl 80 characters yet.
    First time i completed explorable paths i think i was 65-80 and it was tough, it took comparable effort to my first raid clear.

    Which is actually nice... Instanced group content is supposed to be somewhat engaging. Not trivial.

  • thrag.9740thrag.9740 Member ✭✭✭

    Tips for twilight arbor (not aether blade path):

    Thief is a hard carry. TA is why I first geared up my thief (btw thief is also the carry class for arah and caudecus manor). A core thief that knows what it is doing, can carry almost any group through TA. It's probably a lost art form now. I learned how to do it from more experienced thieves that I watched. If you can join a group that knows the old ways, you should record it for yourself lol.

    • Make sure all players know how to blast, ping your smoke fields, and run right past everything in stealth. If your warrior is too stupid to warhorn 4 swiftness then trait to have untargeted steal give group swiftness.
    • spider boss run pistol - pistol. Melee isn't worth it if your carrying a bad group.
    • Pistol 5 blind field makes all trash mobs irrelevant. For trash run sword-pistol for the cleave (dagger doesn't cleave)
      -short bow arrows bounce = your solution to poison flowers
    • I forget where it is, but there is this one spot where you fight these 3 slyvari after a long run past the puppies, I think one of them is a knight. You need to pistol 4 that guy and stop his first attack, or blind him. If he gets it off, good chance the group wipes.
    • final boss run dagger dagger, its fun and your literally always behind the boss. Also bring that shadow wall that blocks projectiles and blinds the vets.
    • RUN POTION OF SCARLET ARMY SLAYING

    I'm sure all this advice is super outdated (I finished my dungeoneer before HOT), but I'm also sure that a core thief can make that whole dungeon trivial (except for aetherblade path).

  • have run a lot of dungeons the last half year.... dungeons can be the hardest content in the gw2 or complete faceroll. it depends on your group. u need at least 3 good players with max gear to faceroll it. the problem these days is there a re a lot of new people who are not 80 and/or have not even exotic gear. then dungeons will be a nightmare. also dungeons are way different from playstyle... u need to learn certain mechanics, stacking points and skipping areas and not to mention to avoid stuff that buggs out the dungeon xD.

    and FYI if u get dedicated about dungeons and even have friends u can still make ~15g/h converting/selling everything to gold. the reality tho is that u have to do them with pugs and you gold mostlikley will be around 10g/h.

  • Jahroots.6791Jahroots.6791 Member ✭✭✭

    The problem in dungeons is that almost all of the dedicated folks who took time out to share basic knowledge and tactics to newcomers moved on to fractals and raids, and the ones left can't really be kitten to teach anyone as it's usually easy enough to carry (I've been guilty of this).

    The real trouble occurs when the entire group is needed. For example, pugs these days are often clueless about the braziers in CoF and the consoles in CoE. Experienced groups are rare, but it's truly a joy to blaze through a path in minutes without so much as a single downed player.

  • A lot of people are talking about dungeons being undertuned. I don't agree, not because dungeons aren't super easy, but because dungeons are just super bad.Boring mechanics, bosses that have way too much health, vanillaitis to the max(The tendancy of earlier gw2 stuff to have really bad tells that both don't explain what is happening and just flat out don't show correct info/ are not tied to actual damage), Trash that somehow do both more damage and less mechanics then bosses, skips that, while cool, have just taken over everything. And that is not even mentioning how broken stealth is, and how annoying it is that they aren't balanced with eachother.

    They should nerf arah and aetherpath to be at the level of the others, and then dungeons will be a good, and easy, way to make gold.

  • Vinceman.4572Vinceman.4572 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ultimatepwr.9562 said:
    They should nerf arah and aetherpath to be at the level of the others, and then dungeons will be a good, and easy, way to make gold.

    What? Nice joke. They are both easy.

  • @Dabrixmgp.4758 said:
    so if dungeons are tuned just fine then why does no one do them anymore? Im all for a challenge but this is ridiculous. Actually they are leveling dungeons because they do scale you down. If I want a challenge I will do T4 fractals or raids. This is a dungeon meant for level 55 players so why is it this ridiculous?

    Nobody does them anymore because the rewards are poop. Simple as that.

  • Buran.3796Buran.3796 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 16, 2018

    Twilight Arbor is pretty much the only dungeon that can be hard (outside some paths of Arah) due the clouds of poison gas from flowers that keep rising (a mechanic absent in most of dungeons, in which once you level a stance enemies no longer keep spamming). Most of the other dungeons can be facerrolled over the keyboard with the current power creeping after two expansions. If you want the skins so bad a good alternative can be to complete dungeon tracks in both PvP and WvW; you get 3 weapon skins and 1 armor piece for each track you complete.

  • Kheldorn.5123Kheldorn.5123 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Deeyra.1476 said:

    @Dabrixmgp.4758 said:
    so if dungeons are tuned just fine then why does no one do them anymore? Im all for a challenge but this is ridiculous. Actually they are leveling dungeons because they do scale you down. If I want a challenge I will do T4 fractals or raids. This is a dungeon meant for level 55 players so why is it this ridiculous?

    Nobody does them anymore because the rewards are poop. Simple as that.

    Rewards are close to the same they were before liquid gold nerf.

  • Offair.2563Offair.2563 Member ✭✭✭

    There are some 1 shot mechanics in dungeons to promote downstate i guess. If you think this path is bad you should do arah p2.

    Don't argue with idiots, they drag you down to their level and own you with experience.
    Big Babou, Ranger for life.

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ReaverKane.7598 said:

    @Dabrixmgp.4758 said:
    so if dungeons are tuned just fine then why does no one do them anymore? Im all for a challenge but this is ridiculous. Actually they are leveling dungeons because they do scale you down. If I want a challenge I will do T4 fractals or raids. This is a dungeon meant for level 55 players so why is it this ridiculous?

    Answer is easy... When they removed support for dungeons they broke their rewards.
    You get ~15g easily in 30 minutes of T4 fractals, while you need 8 dungeon paths for the 5 gold reward. So people won't do those as often.

    That you consider them harder, that's more telling of how bad you are as a player than how bad dungeons are themselves. I've 3-4 manned that particular dungeon recently with ease (needed the tokens, didn't want to wait for a PUG).

    Dungeons are, in general, super easy, and yes, if you're doing it like Rambo, thinking you're all that great because you do T4 fractals, TA especially, will be punishing.

    U get 30gold in fractals once while u can spam dungeons and get more gold long term.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 16, 2018

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @Deeyra.1476 said:

    @Dabrixmgp.4758 said:
    so if dungeons are tuned just fine then why does no one do them anymore? Im all for a challenge but this is ridiculous. Actually they are leveling dungeons because they do scale you down. If I want a challenge I will do T4 fractals or raids. This is a dungeon meant for level 55 players so why is it this ridiculous?

    Nobody does them anymore because the rewards are poop. Simple as that.

    Rewards are close to the same they were before liquid gold nerf.

    It's in relation to other content. Before, dungeons offered the best rewards of all instanced content. Now they offer the worst. At the same time, the quality of farms elsewhere also improved. If you add to it lack of endgame gear in dungeons, then yes, rewardwise they are not worth running.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Kheldorn.5123Kheldorn.5123 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @Deeyra.1476 said:

    @Dabrixmgp.4758 said:
    so if dungeons are tuned just fine then why does no one do them anymore? Im all for a challenge but this is ridiculous. Actually they are leveling dungeons because they do scale you down. If I want a challenge I will do T4 fractals or raids. This is a dungeon meant for level 55 players so why is it this ridiculous?

    Nobody does them anymore because the rewards are poop. Simple as that.

    Rewards are close to the same they were before liquid gold nerf.

    It's in relation to other content. Before, dungeons offered the best rewards of all instanced content. Now they offer the worst. At the same time, the quality of farms elsewhere also improved. If you add to it lack of endgame gear in dungeons, then yes, rewardwise they are not worth running.

    Yes, but dungeons didn't really change. They are the same. It was arbitrary decision to give fractals better rewards. But if you have at least 2 other friends and no time or desire to grind ascended gear, you can still farm dungeons these days.

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 16, 2018

    @Dabrixmgp.4758 said:
    so if dungeons are tuned just fine then why does no one do them anymore? Im all for a challenge but this is ridiculous. Actually they are leveling dungeons because they do scale you down. If I want a challenge I will do T4 fractals or raids. This is a dungeon meant for level 55 players so why is it this ridiculous?

    No one do them anymore because we've done them way to much already ;) . Veteran players are most likely fed up with them.

    All in all, dungeons are just a matter of whether or not you know the mechanisms. For most dungeons path, you'll just breeze throught trash mobs by stacking swiftness and stealth, then unload all your damage as fast as possible on the bosses.

    For TA, in particular, stealth is very usefull to skip those flowers, while bosses, if you know how to do them, aren't really what we can call a challenge.

    So if you want a tip, take a thief with you, it will allow you to trivialize most of the dungeon paths.

  • ReaverKane.7598ReaverKane.7598 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @Deeyra.1476 said:

    @Dabrixmgp.4758 said:
    so if dungeons are tuned just fine then why does no one do them anymore? Im all for a challenge but this is ridiculous. Actually they are leveling dungeons because they do scale you down. If I want a challenge I will do T4 fractals or raids. This is a dungeon meant for level 55 players so why is it this ridiculous?

    Nobody does them anymore because the rewards are poop. Simple as that.

    Rewards are close to the same they were before liquid gold nerf.

    Not even close... Unless you do the 8 paths to get the 5 gold and 150 tokens, you can't even compare. In average the first run in a dungeon used to yield 1.76g (1.5g+the regular 26s, with Arah going as high as 3.26g per run, and CoF only giving 1.26g), now you get 61 silver for your first run in average. that's 1.15g less. I wouldn't call it close.
    Sure you get 20 more tokens per run, but those are not very profitable now a days barring very specific conditions.

    Lets be fair and compare 8 paths...
    Lets assume you're doing the most profitable paths (Arah (4)+AC (3)+CM (1)) for both systems:

    **New system: **
    Liquid Gold from the final reward:
    Arah = 4.52 g (3 paths give 1g daily plus 26s per path, the Forgotten path only awards 50s daily plus the 26s regular)
    AC = 2.26 g (each path awards 50s daily plus 26s)
    CM = 0.61g (each path awards 35s daily plus 26s).
    8 paths = 7.39g
    Achievement Gold: 5g
    Total = 12.39g

    Tokens: 100 from each path, so 800 + 150 from achievement. Total tokens 950.

    Old system:
    Liquid gold from the final reward:
    Arah = 11.54g (3 paths gave 3g daily reward plus 26s per path, the Forgotten path awarded 1.5g daily plus the 26s)
    AC = 5.43g (each path awarded 1.55g daily plus 26s)
    CM = 1.76g (each path awarded 1.5g plus 26s)
    Total = 18.73g
    Tokens: 80 from each path, so 640 tokens.

    In total you'd get 6.34 more gold from dungeons than nowadays, but 310 less tokens.
    Can those 310 tokens make up for 6.34g? Not likely, unless you had the luck of dropping recipes for the more in-demand dungeon accessories, which is highly conditional.

  • Kheldorn.5123Kheldorn.5123 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ReaverKane.7598 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @Deeyra.1476 said:

    @Dabrixmgp.4758 said:
    so if dungeons are tuned just fine then why does no one do them anymore? Im all for a challenge but this is ridiculous. Actually they are leveling dungeons because they do scale you down. If I want a challenge I will do T4 fractals or raids. This is a dungeon meant for level 55 players so why is it this ridiculous?

    Nobody does them anymore because the rewards are poop. Simple as that.

    Rewards are close to the same they were before liquid gold nerf.

    Not even close... Unless you do the 8 paths to get the 5 gold and 150 tokens, you can't even compare. In average the first run in a dungeon used to yield 1.76g (1.5g+the regular 26s, with Arah going as high as 3.26g per run, and CoF only giving 1.26g), now you get 61 silver for your first run in average. that's 1.15g less. I wouldn't call it close.
    Sure you get 20 more tokens per run, but those are not very profitable now a days barring very specific conditions.

    Lets be fair and compare 8 paths...
    Lets assume you're doing the most profitable paths (Arah (4)+AC (3)+CM (1)) for both systems:

    **New system: **
    Liquid Gold from the final reward:
    Arah = 4.52 g (3 paths give 1g daily plus 26s per path, the Forgotten path only awards 50s daily plus the 26s regular)
    AC = 2.26 g (each path awards 50s daily plus 26s)
    CM = 0.61g (each path awards 35s daily plus 26s).
    8 paths = 7.39g
    Achievement Gold: 5g
    Total = 12.39g

    Tokens: 100 from each path, so 800 + 150 from achievement. Total tokens 950.

    Old system:
    Liquid gold from the final reward:
    Arah = 11.54g (3 paths gave 3g daily reward plus 26s per path, the Forgotten path awarded 1.5g daily plus the 26s)
    AC = 5.43g (each path awarded 1.55g daily plus 26s)
    CM = 1.76g (each path awarded 1.5g plus 26s)
    Total = 18.73g
    Tokens: 80 from each path, so 640 tokens.

    In total you'd get 6.34 more gold from dungeons than nowadays, but 310 less tokens.
    Can those 310 tokens make up for 6.34g? Not likely, unless you had the luck of dropping recipes for the more in-demand dungeon accessories, which is highly conditional.

    I take drops and tokens into account. There were solid numbers proving that current rewards are up to par with old ones but I don't feel like looking for 2 year old posts.

  • ReaverKane.7598ReaverKane.7598 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @ReaverKane.7598 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @Deeyra.1476 said:

    @Dabrixmgp.4758 said:
    so if dungeons are tuned just fine then why does no one do them anymore? Im all for a challenge but this is ridiculous. Actually they are leveling dungeons because they do scale you down. If I want a challenge I will do T4 fractals or raids. This is a dungeon meant for level 55 players so why is it this ridiculous?

    Nobody does them anymore because the rewards are poop. Simple as that.

    Rewards are close to the same they were before liquid gold nerf.

    Not even close... Unless you do the 8 paths to get the 5 gold and 150 tokens, you can't even compare. In average the first run in a dungeon used to yield 1.76g (1.5g+the regular 26s, with Arah going as high as 3.26g per run, and CoF only giving 1.26g), now you get 61 silver for your first run in average. that's 1.15g less. I wouldn't call it close.
    Sure you get 20 more tokens per run, but those are not very profitable now a days barring very specific conditions.

    Lets be fair and compare 8 paths...
    Lets assume you're doing the most profitable paths (Arah (4)+AC (3)+CM (1)) for both systems:

    **New system: **
    Liquid Gold from the final reward:
    Arah = 4.52 g (3 paths give 1g daily plus 26s per path, the Forgotten path only awards 50s daily plus the 26s regular)
    AC = 2.26 g (each path awards 50s daily plus 26s)
    CM = 0.61g (each path awards 35s daily plus 26s).
    8 paths = 7.39g
    Achievement Gold: 5g
    Total = 12.39g

    Tokens: 100 from each path, so 800 + 150 from achievement. Total tokens 950.

    Old system:
    Liquid gold from the final reward:
    Arah = 11.54g (3 paths gave 3g daily reward plus 26s per path, the Forgotten path awarded 1.5g daily plus the 26s)
    AC = 5.43g (each path awarded 1.55g daily plus 26s)
    CM = 1.76g (each path awarded 1.5g plus 26s)
    Total = 18.73g
    Tokens: 80 from each path, so 640 tokens.

    In total you'd get 6.34 more gold from dungeons than nowadays, but 310 less tokens.
    Can those 310 tokens make up for 6.34g? Not likely, unless you had the luck of dropping recipes for the more in-demand dungeon accessories, which is highly conditional.

    I take drops and tokens into account. There were solid numbers proving that current rewards are up to par with old ones but I don't feel like looking for 2 year old posts.

    Drops and tokens aside from the daily rewards are the same for both systems.

<13
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