Make one core traitline an elite specialization?

Core builds seem to be somewhat lacking for most classes and non xpac players feel the heat sometimes in any competitive environment. I get that elite specialization are one of the major selling points of expansions, but I think there is an opportunity to fix some balancing issues(most notably the horrendous power creep) by converting one core trait line into an elite specialization.

Pros:

• Solid build identity
• Arguably easier to balance each elite for different roles
• Give non xpac players a taste of working for and using an elite spec
• Toning down current elite powercreep
• Make core specs great again

Cons:

• Losing one trait line
• Potentially less build diversity
• May require a lot of man hours to implement
• May break some current builds, depending which trait line is converted

It's a nice idea, though the main problem, I would think, would be that most elite specs are built and balanced around having access to the current core specs. In addition, you have things like the Revenant, where you have a specialisation to synergise with each core legend plus invocation – and making invocation elite would be a disaster. I'm guessing hero points would have to work differently too, since there aren't enough points in the core game to max even one elite spec, forcing you to grind in the expansions for the points.

In the same vein, though, the elite spec slot could be put to better use on core characters than it currently is. What if each core specialisation had two sets of numbers/effects – one for if it was in a regular slot, and one for if it's in the elite slot? The elite line could unlock at level 80 like it does now, but it would buff core builds while not denying access to the existing traits that so many builds depend on and having to choose a trait line to 'remove'.

@Manpag.6421 said:In the same vein, though, the elite spec slot could be put to better use on core characters than it currently is. What if each core specialisation had two sets of numbers/effects – one for if it was in a regular slot, and one for if it's in the elite slot? The elite line could unlock at level 80 like it does now, but it would buff core builds while not denying access to the existing traits that so many builds depend on and having to choose a trait line to 'remove'.

I like the sound of that. Easiest way to do it would likely just be an additional minor trait that only activates when in the Elite slot, so that the team wouldn't have to tweak every single trait in each line.

@Manpag.6421 said:I'm guessing hero points would have to work differently too, since there aren't enough points in the core game to max even one elite spec, forcing you to grind in the expansions for the points.

Since it would be included in the core game I'm thinking it wouldn't cost much more than a regular traitline to unlock, but would just be a powerful default specialization to give core builds more oomph and identity.

In the same vein, though, the elite spec slot could be put to better use on core characters than it currently is. What if each core specialisation had two sets of numbers/effects – one for if it was in a regular slot, and one for if it's in the elite slot? The elite line could unlock at level 80 like it does now, but it would buff core builds while not denying access to the existing traits that so many builds depend on and having to choose a trait line to 'remove'.

This does seem interesting. Since it would only affect core traits it kind of accomplishes my goal without making current elites stronger. It won't really help powercreep, but again it would certainly improve core builds.

@Manpag.6421 said:It's a nice idea, though the main problem, I would think, would be that most elite specs are built and balanced around having access to the current core specs. In addition, you have things like the Revenant, where you have a specialisation to synergise with each core legend plus invocation – and making invocation elite would be a disaster. I'm guessing hero points would have to work differently too, since there aren't enough points in the core game to max even one elite spec, forcing you to grind in the expansions for the points.

In the same vein, though, the elite spec slot could be put to better use on core characters than it currently is. What if each core specialisation had two sets of numbers/effects – one for if it was in a regular slot, and one for if it's in the elite slot? The elite line could unlock at level 80 like it does now, but it would buff core builds while not denying access to the existing traits that so many builds depend on and having to choose a trait line to 'remove'.

There is balance in this game?Wait i go look for it......10 weeks later...No i didnt find that balance xD

I think it's a great idea, I even suggested something like that after HOT release while everybody complained that elite specializations are too strong and that core -professions are useless. Since, A.net toned down elite specializations and buffed the core -professions .

I still think they should do it for several reasons:

The main reason is that I feel the development team struggle very much to create for each expansion an elite specializations which requires tons of work from all departments(concept/art/coding etc..) You can feel the backlog they are creating the themselves with each new elite specialization, which recuse their overall capability to support performance and balance. ATM each professions got enough weapons variety and enough mechanic variety to make things very interesting IF all the existing options would be more or-less compatible. Big Chunk of the existing weapon skills/traits lines/utility skills etc.. are in almost unplayable state, I much rather A.net would look at the state of everything and re-balance(or re-work) some of the existing assets instead of of creating new assets which they can't support.

Second reason OFC, is the flavor argument and build diversity -Some player chose a specific professions to be this specific profession. And if you go by A.net philosophy, it will not be an optimal way to play(as they stated that elite specializations trait-lines should be stronger compared to regular trait lines). The most obvious pick for core trait-line to become a specializations trait-lines is the trait line that focuses on empowering the core mechanic (Like beast mastery for rangers). In many cases today, this trait line is a must have trait-line for most competitive builds, so together with the specializations trait line you basically have one trait line option to play with out of the other optional 4 . This is linting build diversity -sometimes less is more, locking the core profession trait-line and an elite specialization, will force new build for the existing other 4 trait lines that most players doesn't use.

This Ofc cannot happen with the structure of the existing trait-lines. This ofc will require a massive over-all balance to all the existing trait -lines, that's why I think about it as an expansion feature instead of a new elite profession and not just something they can do as an additional thing. And it also big opportunity to re-think many decisions and barley got changed during the last 6 years. Its kinda what WoW is doing with every new expansion. This will give us 3 elites to chose from and 4 core trait lines(2 offensive, 2 defensive). perfect.

Or maybe the elite slot could be filled by a traitline from another profession? Not just any, but say one traitline from each profession becomes "universal" and can be slotted into the elite slot of other professions? It'd need a lot of balancing but could be kinda fun

@"Deifact.3095" said:Or maybe the elite slot could be filled by a traitline from another profession? Not just any, but say one traitline from each profession becomes "universal" and can be slotted into the elite slot of other professions? It'd need a lot of balancing but could be kinda fun

As fun as it would be, there's just way too much abuse potential there – especially as many professions have very similar traits (eg a movement speed buff, damage buff to a particular weapon type and the fall damage reduction/effect on heal trait). They're so evenly distributed among specialisations that it would be hard to not accidentally give some profs pretty game-breaking abilities, as well as having lots of traits that are so tailored to the profession that they have no effect whatsoever.

My other qualm with that would be the lore; it was fine in GW1 because you would specifically train in a secondary profession, but being able to have a random spec from a very different profession without any lore binding it together would seem wrong. As it is, I see the elite specs as kind of doing that; they have their own unique identity, but usually give access to a weapon and skill type that lets you play as if that was a secondary profession for you.

Make core elite to always be stronger than expansion ones is the way

My biggest reason for doing this would be to free up the devs to be more creative with their elite specializations.

I think that one of biggest restrictions, especially as we get higher in the number of elite specs per class, is the class mechanic.

As they design each of these for each class there almost always must be a "Steal-Like" skill for thieves, or a "Burst Skill" for warriors.

Ideally by making the core trait-line that is most associated with the class mechanic (adrenaline, steal for this example) to it's own elite specialization you can get much more creative with this. Even allowing you to borrow class mechanics from other classes. Imagine maybe a thief that has a burst skill like, adrenaline building mechanic?

This would require them re organizing each trait line to remove class specific mechanics (ie ones affecting steal/adrenaline etc) to be moved into the new "core elite-specialization". Which would definitely require some work in doing that overhaul. Work similar to what they had to do before HoT, but I feel it would be worth it.

Imagine a Daredevil, that instead of using steal as a primary mechanic, can instead have it's special skills allow for on the fly swapping between dodge types to adapt to the situation at hand. Of course losing the perk that a "Core Theif Elite Spec" would have of quickly shadowstepping in and stealing from opponents. But you could then have traits that are based around swapping dodges and benefits for using each dodge under certain conditions.

Warrior can never have any other mechanic that doesn't involve some sort of resource that builds up to a skill that dumps said resource. It's all it can ever have because of how many traits revolve around adrenaline use or build up. I think that philosophy really holds back how unique and interesting these "elite specializations" could be.

At this point I think the third elite spec that comes out next expansion is gonna really stretch how convoluted the class mechanics within each profession are going to become.

This would bring core specs up and elite specs down, which i think would be great. Since every class has that core traitline that effects their class mechanic, while current elite specs effect their respective new mechanics i think it would be great change. I think it would change how current expansion elite specs are inherently superior.

I would buy an expac for this. I like a lot of the core class playstyles, but they just aren't viable anymore. It actually makes a lot of sense - since elite specs alter the core mechanic, why not make the traitline that buffs the original core mechanic it's own elite spec? This could be an excuse to make them competitive again. It would also solve certain balance conflicts - like WTF to do with shroud traits on a Scourge. Move those conflicts into the core espec and suddenly they are not in conflict anymore.

It would suck for people still leveling, but at least that doesn't last long (as long as they auto-grant it at 80, no unlock needed). It would also need some major balance work, but it's definately expac worthy to overhaul all the classes at once. Balance is terrible anyway, it's not like it can make things worse.

+1 here.GW2 before:choose between

• weapons
• skills
• traits
• statsetc.

GW2 current:

• choose between 2 elite specs(POF>HoT), and select traits that buff elite spec.

So if u love classic builds you can forget about guilds/"static partys" for fractals, wvw, raids

-1 here. The cons massively outweigh the pros of this suggestion. The balance fuck-up that's guaranteed from such a thing would take decades to clear up, given their usual speed of "balancing" stuff.

@"CptAurellian.9537" said:-1 here. The cons massively outweigh the pros of this suggestion. The balance kitten-up that's guaranteed from such a thing would take decades to clear up, given their usual speed of "balancing" stuff.

So, situation normal, then. I mean, we deal with this at all times anyway, may as well go for broke.

I'd love to see that happen. I just want to PvP with my core profession again. The elite specialisations never even got close to the enjoyment I got out of vanilla GW2.

Not with the existing once i suppose.It would devalue the expansions fir all players who bought them with anticipation if the E-Spec.I would actually like to see a core tyria overhaul with an e-spec per class. Overhauled core story, improved hearts, better mob models, better openworld, better "engame" (Mainly just Orr) etc.Otherwise i doubt E-specs from espansions for core players will be a thing.

Yes, please. Can't add anything since my reasons as to why I support this has already been said.:+1:

No. Cause then you couldn't take that spec with (or it's skills) (or weapons) the elite spec. That would murder alot of builds PvP. Sides anet has while slowly been buffing the core specs over the years. Now in PvP you see quite a bit of core spec gameplay.

On another idea, maybe just give a few traits on core lines the "Path of Corruption" treatment. Some core traits will be slightly stronger but only if no Elite Specialization is selected.

An example would be Necromancer. If using only core traitlines, some traits such as Strength of Undeath will grant 25% maximum Life Force increase but will be 15% if Reaper or Scourge is selected. Additionally, Vital Persistence would have a 30% recharge on Shroud skills, but only as a core Necromancer.

This way, a lot of current builds can be kept, and core builds get slight advantages that don't have them lingering too far behind while being easier to balance and code.

I've liked the idea of a Core Elite. But I'd suggest creating a new traitline instead of converting an existing one. The Thief would end up getting Trickery or Deadly Arts converted, and that would cause havoc to the current Elites. Alas, I don't even have an expansion, but the Thief doesn't need yet another nail in its coffin.

Sure. Let's power creep some more and restrict existing builds that use elite specs. Great idea