Stop complaining about Mirage. Play it instead. — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Stop complaining about Mirage. Play it instead.

MikeL.8260MikeL.8260 Member ✭✭✭

I was getting really tired of all those Threads appearing in the forums about how broken or op Mirage is so.. Instead of complaining about how overpowered Mesmer is why don't you play one yourself?
Go on, give it a shot and then come back here and share with everyone your expiriences about how powerful you felt and how easily you carried your team by just smashing buttons on the keyboard, how omnipresent you were with your epic portal plays, how a random Deadeye one shot you or when a Druid forced you out of a base, when an FB kept restoring all your dmg and clearing your condis, when a Holo one shot you (from stealth), when a better mesmer kicked your puny kitten to the ground for trying to touch him, when a Warrior wasn't taking any dmg from your bursts, when a Scourge kept overchoking you with condis - along with your team - mercilessly, when an Ele one shot you and the list goes on.

Do you see the pattern? and in conjunction what I'm implying? If you miss the point please don't start a flame war.

<1

Comments

  • Kako.1930Kako.1930 Member ✭✭✭

    That's what I did and it's 100x easier now! Of course, when you go from one of the underdog profession to a top dog profession that's to be expected. As long as you weren't a Condi mirage, scourge, or druid main last season I bet that you'll have an easier time if you swap to power mirage this season. :)

    If you swap from holosmith then the experience will probably seem to be not so different though.

  • MikeL.8260MikeL.8260 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 12, 2018

    @pah.4931 said:
    So is your thesis: Mesmer is not more powerful than most other professions currently?

    Or is it: Mesmer is OP but not easy to play?

    Both, more or less and my first question still stands; why doesn't everyone play Mesmer since it's such a godly profession? It's all about the PvP ladder no? Every thread I read makes Mirages sounds like impenetrable fortresses that make Alcatraz seem like a matchbox... without the wraping - or the matches.

  • MikeL.8260MikeL.8260 Member ✭✭✭

    Maybe it's just me but for some reason I fairly doupt that it's anything other than "ladder pressure" in ranked speaking when someone comes here and complains about how op a profession is. I'm refering to those people which no doupt are the majority of the whiners or even the absoluteness.

  • Sigmoid.7082Sigmoid.7082 Member ✭✭✭

    Literally you can change the word mesmer/mirage for necro/scourge and its like travelling back in time..

  • MikeL.8260MikeL.8260 Member ✭✭✭

    @Kako.1930 said:

    @MikeL.8260 said:
    Maybe it's just me but for some reason I fairly doupt that it's anything other than "ladder pressure" in ranked speaking when someone comes here and complains about how op a profession is. I'm refering to those people which no doupt are the majority of the whiners or even the absoluteness.

    Or maybe it's because you're a mesmer main who likes having the advantage and you're being defensive. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

    People who main the top profession of the month always bring out the 'git gud' and 'low tier whining' lingo.

    You are too shallow. I'm not. I never changed my class since the day I picked the game up and fun is always at the top of my list. Even when Mesmer was at it's worse I never came here just to complain and whine about it which by the way in case you haven't realized is what tires me, that mentality that players have, first it was Scourge and SB now it's Mirage and no doupt next month will be another.

  • Kako.1930Kako.1930 Member ✭✭✭

    @MikeL.8260 said:

    @Kako.1930 said:

    @MikeL.8260 said:
    Maybe it's just me but for some reason I fairly doupt that it's anything other than "ladder pressure" in ranked speaking when someone comes here and complains about how op a profession is. I'm refering to those people which no doupt are the majority of the whiners or even the absoluteness.

    Or maybe it's because you're a mesmer main who likes having the advantage and you're being defensive. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

    People who main the top profession of the month always bring out the 'git gud' and 'low tier whining' lingo.

    You are too shallow. I'm not. I never changed my class since the day I picked the game up and fun is always at the top of my list. Even when Mesmer was at it's worse I never came here just to complain and whine about it which by the way in case you haven't realized is what tires me, that mentality that players have, first it was Scourge and SB now it's Mirage and no doupt next month will be another.

    That's because there are issues. If there weren't issues then people would probably all be complaining about different things. The fact that several strangers agree on the same things while the only ones who don't are the ones who main the problematic profession shows that something isn't right.

  • pah.4931pah.4931 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Here's a better question back to you, OP. As someone who does not play Mesmer. What are their main weaknesses and their worst match-ups?

    They SEEM to be good at a lot of things, from an outsiders perspective. Very high mobility, very high damage, a lot of evade / stealth, dodge breaks stuns and doesn't interrupt abilities... not to mention one of the most annoying downed #2 skills.

    There are other powerful classes, but that can't be your reason for people to get frustrated with a profession that was designed since 2015 to be annoying as poop in PvP that now has TONS of damage on top of that.

  • MikeL.8260MikeL.8260 Member ✭✭✭

    @Kako.1930 said:

    @MikeL.8260 said:

    @Kako.1930 said:

    @MikeL.8260 said:
    Maybe it's just me but for some reason I fairly doupt that it's anything other than "ladder pressure" in ranked speaking when someone comes here and complains about how op a profession is. I'm refering to those people which no doupt are the majority of the whiners or even the absoluteness.

    Or maybe it's because you're a mesmer main who likes having the advantage and you're being defensive. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

    People who main the top profession of the month always bring out the 'git gud' and 'low tier whining' lingo.

    You are too shallow. I'm not. I never changed my class since the day I picked the game up and fun is always at the top of my list. Even when Mesmer was at it's worse I never came here just to complain and whine about it which by the way in case you haven't realized is what tires me, that mentality that players have, first it was Scourge and SB now it's Mirage and no doupt next month will be another.

    That's because there are issues. If there weren't issues then people would probably all be complaining about different things. The fact that several strangers agree on the same things while the only ones who don't are the ones who main the problematic profession shows that something isn't right.

    There are no issues, expecting something (anything) to be perfect is a mistake. Players create the issues with that mentality and to some degree denial.

  • MikeL.8260MikeL.8260 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 12, 2018

    @pah.4931 said:
    Here's a better question back to you, OP. As someone who does not play Mesmer. What are their main weaknesses and their worst match-ups?

    They SEEM to be good at a lot of things, from an outsiders perspective. Very high mobility, very high damage, a lot of evade / stealth, dodge breaks stuns and doesn't interrupt abilities... not to mention one of the most annoying downed #2 skills.

    That's not the point of the thread but even if it was I mentioned some.

  • Kako.1930Kako.1930 Member ✭✭✭

    @MikeL.8260 said:

    @Kako.1930 said:

    @MikeL.8260 said:

    @Kako.1930 said:

    @MikeL.8260 said:
    Maybe it's just me but for some reason I fairly doupt that it's anything other than "ladder pressure" in ranked speaking when someone comes here and complains about how op a profession is. I'm refering to those people which no doupt are the majority of the whiners or even the absoluteness.

    Or maybe it's because you're a mesmer main who likes having the advantage and you're being defensive. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

    People who main the top profession of the month always bring out the 'git gud' and 'low tier whining' lingo.

    You are too shallow. I'm not. I never changed my class since the day I picked the game up and fun is always at the top of my list. Even when Mesmer was at it's worse I never came here just to complain and whine about it which by the way in case you haven't realized is what tires me, that mentality that players have, first it was Scourge and SB now it's Mirage and no doupt next month will be another.

    That's because there are issues. If there weren't issues then people would probably all be complaining about different things. The fact that several strangers agree on the same things while the only ones who don't are the ones who main the problematic profession shows that something isn't right.

    There are no issues, expecting something (anything) to be perfect is a mistake. Players create the issues with that mentality and to some degree denial.

    Well it's ironic that you should mention denial, but either way, I just would like to see a season where all professions are relevant and nobody is threatening to afk if their teammates don't switch to something more op, or where one profession isn't completely dominating to the point where it's normal to see 4+ in every match. I don't see my main as my darling baby that shouldn't ever be nerfed for any reason and i enjoy being able to multiclass. But hey, to each his own...

  • MikeL.8260MikeL.8260 Member ✭✭✭

    @Kako.1930 said:

    @MikeL.8260 said:

    @Kako.1930 said:

    @MikeL.8260 said:

    @Kako.1930 said:

    @MikeL.8260 said:
    Maybe it's just me but for some reason I fairly doupt that it's anything other than "ladder pressure" in ranked speaking when someone comes here and complains about how op a profession is. I'm refering to those people which no doupt are the majority of the whiners or even the absoluteness.

    Or maybe it's because you're a mesmer main who likes having the advantage and you're being defensive. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

    People who main the top profession of the month always bring out the 'git gud' and 'low tier whining' lingo.

    You are too shallow. I'm not. I never changed my class since the day I picked the game up and fun is always at the top of my list. Even when Mesmer was at it's worse I never came here just to complain and whine about it which by the way in case you haven't realized is what tires me, that mentality that players have, first it was Scourge and SB now it's Mirage and no doupt next month will be another.

    That's because there are issues. If there weren't issues then people would probably all be complaining about different things. The fact that several strangers agree on the same things while the only ones who don't are the ones who main the problematic profession shows that something isn't right.

    There are no issues, expecting something (anything) to be perfect is a mistake. Players create the issues with that mentality and to some degree denial.

    Well it's ironic that you should mention denial

    Guess I should have had specified it; denial when you don't recognize your own shortcomings and blame everything on the next "op" thing.

  • Kako.1930Kako.1930 Member ✭✭✭

    @MikeL.8260 said:

    @Kako.1930 said:

    @MikeL.8260 said:

    @Kako.1930 said:

    @MikeL.8260 said:

    @Kako.1930 said:

    @MikeL.8260 said:
    Maybe it's just me but for some reason I fairly doupt that it's anything other than "ladder pressure" in ranked speaking when someone comes here and complains about how op a profession is. I'm refering to those people which no doupt are the majority of the whiners or even the absoluteness.

    Or maybe it's because you're a mesmer main who likes having the advantage and you're being defensive. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

    People who main the top profession of the month always bring out the 'git gud' and 'low tier whining' lingo.

    You are too shallow. I'm not. I never changed my class since the day I picked the game up and fun is always at the top of my list. Even when Mesmer was at it's worse I never came here just to complain and whine about it which by the way in case you haven't realized is what tires me, that mentality that players have, first it was Scourge and SB now it's Mirage and no doupt next month will be another.

    That's because there are issues. If there weren't issues then people would probably all be complaining about different things. The fact that several strangers agree on the same things while the only ones who don't are the ones who main the problematic profession shows that something isn't right.

    There are no issues, expecting something (anything) to be perfect is a mistake. Players create the issues with that mentality and to some degree denial.

    Well it's ironic that you should mention denial

    Guess I should have had specified it; denial when you don't recognize your own shortcomings and blame everything on the next "op" thing.

    Are you trolling or do you believe that necros were completely balanced with, say, revenants last season and anyone who said otherwise just didn't realize their 'shortcomings.' I adapt each season and consider everyone's feedback. Sometimes it is just a skill issue, and sometimes people have a point.

    If you take some time to think about it you might discover these points too...

  • Ardenwolfe.8590Ardenwolfe.8590 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @MikeL.8260 said:
    I was getting really tired of all those Threads appearing in the forums about how broken or op Mirage is so.. Instead of complaining about how overpowered Mesmer is why don't you play one yourself?

    We'll have none of your common sense here, sir!

    No longer posting or playing.

  • MikeL.8260MikeL.8260 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ardenwolfe.8590 said:

    @MikeL.8260 said:
    I was getting really tired of all those Threads appearing in the forums about how broken or op Mirage is so.. Instead of complaining about how overpowered Mesmer is why don't you play one yourself?

    We'll have none of your common sense here, sir!

    Well.. can't really call it my loss anyway.

  • pah.4931pah.4931 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @MikeL.8260 said:

    @pah.4931 said:
    Here's a better question back to you, OP. As someone who does not play Mesmer. What are their main weaknesses and their worst match-ups?

    They SEEM to be good at a lot of things, from an outsiders perspective. Very high mobility, very high damage, a lot of evade / stealth, dodge breaks stuns and doesn't interrupt abilities... not to mention one of the most annoying downed #2 skills.

    That's not the point of the thread but even if it was I mentioned some.

    The point of this thread is NOT meaningful discussion? My bad!

    Also, sarcastically pointing out other bust builds is not really pointing out current weakness of Power Mirage. I mean, shoot, you mentioned Deadeye in your rant... not a single person is complaining about Deadeye being too OP. You kind of shot yourself in the foot there. So... maybe it's not JUST high damage that people have a problem with when it comes to Mesmer? MAYBE???

  • whoknocks.4935whoknocks.4935 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 12, 2018

    @MikeL.8260 said:

    @Kako.1930 said:

    @MikeL.8260 said:
    Maybe it's just me but for some reason I fairly doupt that it's anything other than "ladder pressure" in ranked speaking when someone comes here and complains about how op a profession is. I'm refering to those people which no doupt are the majority of the whiners or even the absoluteness.

    Or maybe it's because you're a mesmer main who likes having the advantage and you're being defensive. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

    People who main the top profession of the month always bring out the 'git gud' and 'low tier whining' lingo.

    You are too shallow. I'm not. I never changed my class since the day I picked the game up and fun is always at the top of my list. Even when Mesmer was at it's worse I never came here just to complain and whine about it which by the way in case you haven't realized is what tires me, that mentality that players have, first it was Scourge and SB now it's Mirage and no doupt next month will be another.

    Man, mesmer never was even once useless in pvp. The opposite, always present in the meta list season after season.

    It's from the beginning of the game that mesmer is the top 1v1 profession in the game and barely every had some counters.

    Yeah the burst is old and always been there yadayadayada, but the problem is the insane survivability that mirage brough with perma stunbreaks, evades, stealth, invulns, disangage abilities.

    And to be honest who said power mesmer is an high skill class I don't think so, actually it is one of the most braindead builds in the game, maybe that's why people don't switch to it, same reason why I didn't switch to scourge, boring spammy profession imho.

    Now you are mesmer main and have to protect your profession till death. But good players have the brave to admit that their profession is nuts and kinda broken.

    They tuned down condi mirage and the next day a power mirage already in the meta, mesmer never fall apart even once, so I am curious of those moments you said when mesmer was and you didn't complain about it :)

  • Mirage needs buff, especially power mirage.

  • @Vlerk.4761 said:
    Mirage needs buff, especially power mirage.

    Totally dude

  • so people are crying about power mirage now...that is hillarious.
    Power mirage doesn't even close close to the 1v1er that condi mirage was, and gets completely overshadowed in terms of being a roamer/ganker by literally any thief.
    It doesnt have any significant contribution to the meta.

  • Reflects op yo

  • tartarus.1082tartarus.1082 Member ✭✭✭

    @Kondor.2904 said:
    "Best 1v1 class", rip. This kitten has counters, this kitten is killable. Portal is the only thing that keeps mes in the meta comp.

    Yeah I could get where people were coming from with condition Mesmer and honestly agreed with them.

    But power Mesmer has so many losing 1v1 matchups. You’re just a sub par +1 and will always be overshadowed by thief.

  • musu.9205musu.9205 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 13, 2018

    @tartarus.1082 said:

    @Kondor.2904 said:
    "Best 1v1 class", rip. This kitten has counters, this kitten is killable. Portal is the only thing that keeps mes in the meta comp.

    Yeah I could get where people were coming from with condition Mesmer and honestly agreed with them.

    But power Mesmer has so many losing 1v1 matchups. You’re just a sub par +1 and will always be overshadowed by thief.

    we are talking about gw2 pvp scene here. dont be ridiculous .people complaint about power mesmer even when it was literally thief food .
    this time is like when game release , people were saying mesmer has everything before they knew the game well .
    https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/7x4ugn/34_mesmer_teams_are_now_consistently_winning/
    look at this , a so called balanced team facing 3 mesmer at mid point , somehow they feel they need to figure out who is who , not drop those insane aoe .op even claimed that previous meta the firebrand and scourge were there only to fill non- mesmer spot .

  • Daishi.6027Daishi.6027 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kako.1930 said:
    That's because there are issues. If there weren't issues then people would probably all be complaining about different things. The fact that several strangers agree on the same things while the only ones who don't are the ones who main the problematic profession shows that something isn't right.

    Just because something is touted by a lot of people doesn't make it fact or true. Mesmer has always been a noob stomper class regardless of it's place in the meta for years, and for years people have been vocal about it despite not very many top players, slots, or over representation in matches which is much more evidence of the contrary.

    On point to current Power Mirage.

    Best 1v1 spec?
    Is that claim based on more beneficial matchups? Or saying nothing can beat it 1v1?
    Ranger builds and some War builds can out sustain it, also some Engies can kill it, Condi checks anything not runing inspiration,
    It has a fairly even matchup with thief, if thief is good enough to play around phantasms and cooldowns (which is much easier to do now).
    Plus I'm only mentioning who can win the fight, plenty can push it off the point if you know how to avoid shatters, which to me is a win.

    Better than p/d theif
    Mirage has range poke and more tells but with visual noise coverage (which if you fall for is your own fault), Thief gets no tells and access to a lot more stealth.
    Fighting both of them requires the same type of anticipation, but while mirage is rewarded for landing that burst within the few clean opportunities it has before momentum shifts. Thief can safely wait and try again even in the event the numbers are not as high. But honestly they are really about the same, and one combo will reduce a target to about the same thresholds.

    What does OP mean?
    I think everyone is arguing their personal criteria of OP. You shouldn't do this, you only serve to make the game worse.
    Conquest is the only place where balance matters. Even if Mirage had the most favorable 1v1 match-ups, 1v1 match-ups are irrelevant because that is not what balance is designed around. I honestly think it's to early to tell if it even has a viable tanky on point 'team stack-able' apex predator, but so far it does have 'counters that beat the most common power mirage builds in conquest.'
    ^- This is how 'Meta' develops. You don't complain because something beat you 1v1, again you only serve to make the game worse. Instead you see what is strong against it and start running it's counter. If you do not play anything that counters it, well that's to bad.
    If you don't want a 5v5 team game based around conquest, well then complain about that, and argue for the game type you want with the balance to be structured around it. Don't take it out on Mirage, sometimes what you want to run doesn't counter what you want it to.
    At the same time, if you cannot avoid shatters you don't get to complain, you have to get better. The game shouldn't have to nerf itself to be at your level.

    The main burst is the same burst since launch vs what was buffed
    So Lots of changes, from increased autos, to one time phantasms some like disenchanter hitting pretty hard, also double Mind Wrack! it's like Chrono all over again.

    But honestly, the burst combos are the exact same as what existed since release. There are slight increases like how mes actually gets crit damage if they go dueling.
    Or how they get up to 15% more damage after spawning a ton resources in illusions.

    However this thing everyone is complaining about that has remained the same since before the specialization patch pre HoT.
    Sometimes it had lighting from sigils before the change, sometimes it would be paired with a staff instead of a main hand sword, more recent years 15% or 30% more dmg to stuned foes in dom.
    But it was over all fine. So 'Fine' in fact that it was an objectively worse option to thief up till the specialization patch in the early days, then later lost relevance to DD again in HoT, which btw power wasn't anywhere near the par of condi chrono, and until recently condi mirage.
    But that OG burst that has only slightly evolved with the base power of the entire game since then, that same burst that had pros at the time like Supcutie abandon the class in competitive matches due to being seen as inferior to thief because it was to easy to avoid with to much downtime and no cover, That burst which never really even got to see much use until Condi was nerfed, That burst that is still countered by cleave and AoE that isn't point blank; is what is being complained about now.

    Is it much more usable since then? Yeah, sure. There are more cooldowns to work with, re-positioning tools, in a few cases reduced cooldowns or ways to wait them out.
    But this is the fine line between viable and useless. How viable would Engie be if they couldn't chain defensive cooldowns and have built in saftey nets? How viable would a thief be if they couldn't evade spam or stealth? All that burst has now is a few modifiers, frequency, and ways to set up. The counters still exist and it's not very difficult to play around. I don't like saying it, but honestly... l2p.

  • shinta.8906shinta.8906 Member ✭✭✭

    domination line - adept tier trait: confounding suggestions

    makes it that every cc ignores evade frames

    since years

    add to that

    superiority complex gm trait of duelling line (patch before pof)

    there you go

  • Virelion.4128Virelion.4128 Member ✭✭✭

    !! LOT OF READING WARNING !!
    As usual after patch i picked up profession which is most op to play, for the expreimental purposes to learn what are his weaknesess and how to counter it.
    Because I am a necro main and most of the time I played scourge before patch (I play it still) i can tell you what are basic differences in being OP as a scourge and as a mirage.

    Consider that this was a state of things before patch:
    - firebrand much stronger
    - fights much more sustainable
    - more corruptions, condi cleanse for scourge
    Because fights tend to last much longer, condi scourge had mor oportunities to deal great dmg and put pressure, I was capable of soloing characters like warrior, holo and not die. Thieves did not bother me as they were affraid to go close to me.
    Did not play mirage back then, so I cannot say a lot about condi version of the build besides that condi transfers of 20 confusions stack back o mirage was entertaining :P

    After patch:
    - firebrand still strong, but weaker
    - meta contains much more burst dmg (holo, power mirage, thief, FA eles)
    - less sustain on necro (weakness uptime, boon corrupt)
    - huge red circles from scourge
    As meta became more centered about burst, surviving without firebrand as scourge is nearly imposible. Old necro weakess to burst damage which is going from no evades (besides 2 dodges), block, stability combined with new meta made on around point kiting and pressuring as scourge nearly imposible without constant babysitting from support.
    I started playing mirage just to learn its rotation and behaviour in teamfigts. I was surprised how much more survivable to burst dmg I was and how much more dmg I could do. It took about 2 days to learn basic combos and survivability as mirage to keep up with guys in low platinium.
    Only clear weakness which is coming to mind while playing mesmer now is that I am much more sensitive about lag now and not much more.
    Note that I was playing power shatter mesmer before but it was even before HoT came out.

  • LazySummer.2568LazySummer.2568 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 13, 2018

    Played 2 ranked games as mirage in platinum, no idea what I'm doing. All i did was stealth then smash my buttons (especially the shatters and teleports), then if it didnt work out, just spam my evades/invuls/invis until my shatters off cd and repeat. Win games. so hard. Disgusted by it and never want to touch that kitten anet's favorite profession ever again. Thieves and FA ele on the other hand actually takes skills and are fun

  • whoknocks.4935whoknocks.4935 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Xstein.2187 said:

    @whoknocks.4935 said:

    @MikeL.8260 said:

    @Kako.1930 said:

    @MikeL.8260 said:
    Maybe it's just me but for some reason I fairly doupt that it's anything other than "ladder pressure" in ranked speaking when someone comes here and complains about how op a profession is. I'm refering to those people which no doupt are the majority of the whiners or even the absoluteness.

    Or maybe it's because you're a mesmer main who likes having the advantage and you're being defensive. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

    People who main the top profession of the month always bring out the 'git gud' and 'low tier whining' lingo.

    You are too shallow. I'm not. I never changed my class since the day I picked the game up and fun is always at the top of my list. Even when Mesmer was at it's worse I never came here just to complain and whine about it which by the way in case you haven't realized is what tires me, that mentality that players have, first it was Scourge and SB now it's Mirage and no doupt next month will be another.

    Man, mesmer never was even once useless in pvp. The opposite, always present in the meta list season after season.

    It's from the beginning of the game that mesmer is the top 1v1 profession in the game and barely every had some counters.

    Yeah the burst is old and always been there yadayadayada, but the problem is the insane survivability that mirage brough with perma stunbreaks, evades, stealth, invulns, disangage abilities.

    And to be honest who said power mesmer is an high skill class I don't think so, actually it is one of the most braindead builds in the game, maybe that's why people don't switch to it, same reason why I didn't switch to scourge, boring spammy profession imho.

    Now you are mesmer main and have to protect your profession till death. But good players have the brave to admit that their profession is nuts and kinda broken.

    They tuned down condi mirage and the next day a power mirage already in the meta, mesmer never fall apart even once, so I am curious of those moments you said when mesmer was and you didn't complain about it :)

    The lies told on this forum make me laugh. I wish more in the community would know more about gw2 history before complaining and not just lie for the fact that they don't like a class or build.

    1. "Man, mesmer never was even once useless in pvp. The opposite, always present in the meta list season after season."
      For awhile Helseth was the only one who played mesmer in tournaments. Besides that, it was all thief. Burst mesmer was severely hard countered by thief and after HoT by condi classes as well. Thief completely overshadowed mesmer in the roaming role (which was the only role it could do for a long time). This is history, not opinion.

    2. "Yeah the burst is old and always been there yadayadayada, but the problem is the insane survivability that mirage brough with perma stunbreaks, evades, stealth, invulns, disangage abilities."
      Invulns (not counting evade since you listed evade as a separate category then invuln) and stealth were not added with mirage. In fact, since mirage was added, the preferred position is to take jaunt over mass invisibility and mantra of concentration over decoy. The chaos line for prismatic understanding is also not meta. Typically, much, much more stealth was used by mesmers in the past than it is today and mirage added absolutely no stealth to mesmers. This is a fact, not an opinion.

    3. "And to be honest who said power mesmer is an high skill class I don't think so, actually it is one of the most braindead builds in the game, maybe that's why people don't switch to it, same reason why I didn't switch to scourge, boring spammy profession imho."
      This of course is an opinion. However, the fact that in the past Helseth was one of the only mesmer players who could pull burst shatter off in tournaments and the fact that before the last patch before Shatter storm was created there were hardly any power shatter mesmers in platinum and power shatter was not a meta build on meta battle speaks a kitten load against your opinion.

    4. "They tuned down condi mirage and the next day a power mirage already in the meta, mesmer never fall apart even once, so I am curious of those moments you said when mesmer was and you didn't complain about it :)"
      You do realize they made other changes to mesmer with the last patch with new traits like shatter storm, don't you? And so your saying since a trait was added that raised power shatter to a meta build that it is automatically op and should be nerfed. Becoming meta = OP. You make a lot of logical sense.

    Why the hell you talk about tournaments? Even dh was considered broken as hell, but never seen in tournaments.

    History says mesmer never was useless in spvp like the actual revenant and elementalist, because they kept on buffing it and still remained god pvp mode profession.

    You can't deny that. It has a bit of struggles only when countered by dragonhunter but that's it. Mesmer never felt apart.

    Now you have to defend your main profession like it's your mother, so you are just so closed minded and everything the other says is all wrong.

    I repeat that even pro players admit it. So be honest. The class is broken, dot. If you like play it go ahead nobody says you shouldn't play it.

  • Swagg.9236Swagg.9236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 13, 2018

    @MikeL.8260 said:
    I was getting really tired of all those Threads appearing in the forums about how broken or op Mirage is so.. Instead of complaining about how overpowered Mesmer is why don't you play one yourself?
    Go on, give it a shot and then come back here and share with everyone your expiriences about how powerful you felt and how easily you carried your team by just smashing buttons on the keyboard, how omnipresent you were with your epic portal plays, how a random Deadeye one shot you or when a Druid forced you out of a base, when an FB kept restoring all your dmg and clearing your condis, when a Holo one shot you (from stealth), when a better mesmer kicked your puny kitten to the ground for trying to touch him, when a Warrior wasn't taking any dmg from your bursts, when a Scourge kept overchoking you with condis - along with your team - mercilessly, when an Ele one shot you and the list goes on.

    Do you see the pattern? and in conjunction what I'm implying? If you miss the point please don't start a flame war.

    I picked up a greatsword and started instagibbing people on midnights, my dude. Mirage is a joke and so is trying to defend it. Yeah, if I ever touch PvP, I play Mirage, but it's not like there is anything remotely fair about what I'm doing to people. Straight up just play passive and chain invulns while spamming clone lasers or wait until a target blows panic buttons fighting someone else and then mash everything for a free kill. If you have half a brain, you never die and take 90% of fights with the same rotation.

  • I dodged phantasmal berserker burst combo...and nothing happened to me...strange....

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 13, 2018

    @Swagg.9236 said:

    @MikeL.8260 said:
    I was getting really tired of all those Threads appearing in the forums about how broken or op Mirage is so.. Instead of complaining about how overpowered Mesmer is why don't you play one yourself?
    Go on, give it a shot and then come back here and share with everyone your expiriences about how powerful you felt and how easily you carried your team by just smashing buttons on the keyboard, how omnipresent you were with your epic portal plays, how a random Deadeye one shot you or when a Druid forced you out of a base, when an FB kept restoring all your dmg and clearing your condis, when a Holo one shot you (from stealth), when a better mesmer kicked your puny kitten to the ground for trying to touch him, when a Warrior wasn't taking any dmg from your bursts, when a Scourge kept overchoking you with condis - along with your team - mercilessly, when an Ele one shot you and the list goes on.

    Do you see the pattern? and in conjunction what I'm implying? If you miss the point please don't start a flame war.

    I picked up a greatsword and started instagibbing people on midnights, my dude. Mirage is a joke and so is trying to defend it. Yeah, if I ever touch PvP, I play Mirage, but it's not like there is anything remotely fair about what I'm doing to people. Straight up just play passive and chain invulns while spamming clone lasers or wait until a target blows panic buttons fighting someone else and then mash everything for a free kill. If you have half a brain, you never die and take 90% of fights with the same rotation.

    What tier is this?

    I would like to play in this tier where "mashing buttons" can be effective.

    My honest opinion is that power mirage is balanced, it's just confusing at times with the break target mechanics but tab-targeting will fix that rather quickly for me, also Mirages are very easy to handle as a Spellbreaker, Weaver, Ranger, Thief, Rev and Holo, for me anyway. I assume better players can deal with them much quicker so to me, Power Mirage seems balanced.

    There are times when they slaughter me, but in those moments I know I never saw it coming. That's a fault in me and not the class, they simply achieved their +1 role well.

    Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
    Please allow team queue with rewards again at our own discretion

  • Roeibi.8514Roeibi.8514 Member ✭✭
    edited February 13, 2018

    @MikeL.8260 said:
    I was getting really tired of all those Threads appearing in the forums about how broken or op Mirage is so.. Instead of complaining about how overpowered Mesmer is why don't you play one yourself? - because if someone dont like a profession he shouldnt play it, and because if there's a problem you dont become a part of it, you try to fix it.
    Go on, give it a shot and then come back here and share with everyone your expiriences about how powerful you felt and how easily you carried your team by just smashing buttons on the keyboard, how omnipresent you were with your epic portal plays - dont be cynical, ofcourse you need skills to play mesmer and its known that its complex class, but its not the only complex class, and even tho its more complex than other it dosn't mean it deserve to be overpowered than others.
    how a random Deadeye one shot you-learn to play, a skilled deadeye can kill you, like a skilled anything, and you can kill deadeye, like you can kill any1. or when a Druid forced you out of a base, when an FB kept restoring all your dmg and clearing your condis, when a Holo one shot you (from stealth), when a better mesmer kicked your puny kitten to the ground for trying to touch him, when a Warrior wasn't taking any dmg from your bursts, when a Scourge kept overchoking you with condis - along with your team - mercilessly, when an Ele one shot you and the list goes on.

    Do you see the pattern? and in conjunction what I'm implying? If you miss the point please don't start a flame war.

    conclution - alot of kitten in one post, alot of q.q because you're afraid not to get nerfed, get over it.

  • schloumou.3982schloumou.3982 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 13, 2018

    @Daishi.6027 said:

    What does OP mean?
    I think everyone is arguing their personal criteria of OP. You shouldn't do this, you only serve to make the game worse.
    Conquest is the only place where balance matters. Even if Mirage had the most favorable 1v1 match-ups, 1v1 match-ups are irrelevant because that is not what balance is designed around. I honestly think it's to early to tell if it even has a viable tanky on point 'team stack-able' apex predator, but so far it does have 'counters that beat the most common power mirage builds in conquest.'
    ^- This is how 'Meta' develops. You don't complain because something beat you 1v1, again you only serve to make the game worse. Instead you see what is strong against it and start running it's counter. If you do not play anything that counters it, well that's to bad.
    If you don't want a 5v5 team game based around conquest, well then complain about that, and argue for the game type you want with the balance to be structured around it. Don't take it out on Mirage, sometimes what you want to run doesn't counter what you want it to.

    But that leads to the question if a pointholding structured 5v5 gamemode can only work with a rock/paper/scissors approach of balancing. Im no expert in gamedesign but i never liked the idea of my build determining the outcome of an encounter in any direction even though i can accept that it is not less competitive by shifting decision making to a meta level.

  • Lilyanna.9361Lilyanna.9361 Member ✭✭✭

    @Kondor.2904 said:
    "Best 1v1 class", rip. This kitten has counters, this kitten is killable. Portal is the only thing that keeps mes in the meta comp.

    I agree. It was never a really impressive class to begin. It's boring, doesn't truly fight a person, instead they more have mechanics fight for them.

    Portal, along with most, mesmer ever bothered to stay within the meta. If it did not have unique utility it would probably be mediocre.

  • Bish.8627Bish.8627 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 13, 2018

    You know a class is OP when they come in a thread and start calling people names.

    On topic. Did the last patch not do anything? I haven't been 1 on 1 with a mesmer since then.

  • Kirin.7306Kirin.7306 Member ✭✭✭

    Mesmers are way OP. All one shots especially from blink/stealth should be removed.

  • ToPNoP.2493ToPNoP.2493 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 14, 2018

    @Bish.8627 said:
    You know a class is OP when they come in a thread and start calling people names.

    On topic. Did the last patch not do anything? I haven't been 1 on 1 with a mesmer since then.

    As far as I can tell, in wvw the power mirage is as strong as ever. It can burst 3k+ armor for over 20k damage. I just don't fight it, I hit it and run off. A spec like that is not worth my time.

    Yes I like comms, but sadly I'm allergic to them.

  • Razor.6392Razor.6392 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Mr Godlike.6098 said:
    I dodged phantasmal berserker burst combo...and nothing happened to me...strange....

    I dodged it, then they were automatically re-cast :smiley:

    Never said I'm the best, but I believe I'm better than you.

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