Has anyone discussed the elite profession mentors yet? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Has anyone discussed the elite profession mentors yet?

Daniel Handler.4816Daniel Handler.4816 Member ✭✭✭
edited February 13, 2018 in Lore

Or even know they exist? I completely missed them. Even if you don't have PoF someone has meticulously copied all the dialogue to the wiki: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Elite_Specialization_Mentor

I don't even know if these can be called spoilers since they've apparently been in the game since POF Launched.

Some things I find interesting from the chat options.

  • A Mirage can have the training equivalent of a doctorate and somehow pay the bills as an artist. That it is the most magical element of this entire franchise.
  • Renegades are seeing glimpses of the Black Citadel when they channel Kalla and they don't know why.
  • Joko was the first scourge and it influenced the creation of the Awakened.
  • Joko has resorted to killing the Scourges he disagrees with. It makes one wonder how many people the Mesmer Collective has killed or brainwashed to safeguard their will.
  • a profession is considered their elite spec just like a physician who specializes in surgery is referred to as a surgeon.

Comments

  • On the first:

    It wouldn't surprise me if mesmer training involves at least a minor in art, particularly among humans (which tend to view magic more as an art, compared to the more scientific approach of asura), in order to develop the inspiration and creativity to make the best use of mesmer abilities. Visual artistry, such as painting and drawing, may be particularly valued, as the ability to visualise an image and project that visualisation onto a physical medium would be a useful practice for the formation of believable illusions.

    They may even have a kind of unfair advantage when it comes to visual arts, as they may be able to do things like project an illusion of what they want to create onto the canvas and then paint directly onto the illusion, making it that much easier to achieve exactly the final result they're going for.

  • @draxynnic.3719 said:
    On the first:

    It wouldn't surprise me if mesmer training involves at least a minor in art, particularly among humans (which tend to view magic more as an art, compared to the more scientific approach of asura), in order to develop the inspiration and creativity to make the best use of mesmer abilities. Visual artistry, such as painting and drawing, may be particularly valued, as the ability to visualise an image and project that visualisation onto a physical medium would be a useful practice for the formation of believable illusions.

    They may even have a kind of unfair advantage when it comes to visual arts, as they may be able to do things like project an illusion of what they want to create onto the canvas and then paint directly onto the illusion, making it that much easier to achieve exactly the final result they're going for.

    The latter doesn't seem to be the case. Well, Nasrin specifically says Mirage Magic doesn't help her make art. She might be lying by omission to preserve her ego, or lying about being an artist altogether. The second seems more probable.

    • Claiming a nomadic lifestyle seems like what a member of the Mesmer Collective would say to justify their presence in Elona.
    • Most Mesmers we meet are independently wealthy and/or rely on wealthy clients to make a living.
    • Most traveling artists in our reality have not just completed residency in a graduate level discipline.
    • She can't bring her sketching tools with her as she hikes?
  • Ah. I didn't double-check her dialogue, so I'd forgotten that she states that her magic doesn't help with her art.

    Nevertheless, particularly among humans, some level of artistic ability seems to be common among mesmers, more so than most other professions. It wouldn't surprise me if that's something they encourage among mesmers in training due to some synergy between artistic ability and mesmer magic.

  • Daniel Handler.4816Daniel Handler.4816 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 14, 2018

    @draxynnic.3719 said:
    Ah. I didn't double-check her dialogue, so I'd forgotten that she states that her magic doesn't help with her art.

    Nevertheless, particularly among humans, some level of artistic ability seems to be common among mesmers, more so than most other professions. It wouldn't surprise me if that's something they encourage among mesmers in training due to some synergy between artistic ability and mesmer magic.

    While that may be related to remnants of Lyssa worship I believe you are correct in assuming artistry is useful for illusion magic.

    There might also be some unfair advantage, just not in tracing. I think they can give themselves extreme visual acuity.

    • She specifically says Mirage Magic did not help, she did not say Mesmer Magic. She also said they shared techniques with thieves.
    • The Deadeye mentor mentions some thieves having figured out how to sharpen eyesight with shadow magic. But has limited knowledge of the history, only that it seemed gradual. Perhaps the eyesight and marking came from their collaborations with Mesmers.
    • one could say a Mesmer's sight is beyond the sight beyond sight of a Spellbreaker.
    • Kasmeer is able to mark a location with a portal despite being unable to shadowstep to it and not having visibly tossed it over.
  • @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    • A Mirage can have the training equivalent of a doctorate and somehow pay the bills as an artist. That it is the most magical element of this entire franchise.

    Most mesmers in general has had a history in the theatrical arts throughout both games - especially GW1. Usually they're actors more than painters, etc though.

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    • Joko was the first scourge and it influenced the creation of the Awakened.

    There is literally nothing in this dialogue that talks about creation of the Awakened. The terms "awakened" or "undead" aren't even in the article for Akesi Xuni.

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    • Joko has resorted to killing the Scourges he disagrees with. It makes one wonder how many people the Mesmer Collective has killed or brainwashed to safeguard their will.

    You're comparing an open-secret society with a tyrannical despot. Not exactly the same thing there.

  • well speaking in professions, has a npc in ember bay that changes the dialogue according to your race and profession, although it has nothing interesting for while, for the curious ones. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Circus_Castaway

    "The mists are full of lies"

  • @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @draxynnic.3719 said:
    Ah. I didn't double-check her dialogue, so I'd forgotten that she states that her magic doesn't help with her art.

    Nevertheless, particularly among humans, some level of artistic ability seems to be common among mesmers, more so than most other professions. It wouldn't surprise me if that's something they encourage among mesmers in training due to some synergy between artistic ability and mesmer magic.

    While that may be related to remnants of Lyssa worship I believe you are correct in assuming artistry is useful for illusion magic.

    There might also be some unfair advantage, just not in tracing. I think they can give themselves extreme visual acuity.

    • She specifically says Mirage Magic did not help, she did not say Mesmer Magic. She also said they shared techniques with thieves.
    • The Deadeye mentor mentions some thieves having figured out how to sharpen eyesight with shadow magic. But has limited knowledge of the history, only that it seemed gradual. Perhaps the eyesight and marking came from their collaborations with Mesmers.
    • one could say a Mesmer's sight is beyond the sight beyond sight of a Spellbreaker.
    • Kasmeer is able to mark a location with a portal despite being unable to shadowstep to it and not having visibly tossed it over.

    I've theorised for a while that thief magic is very closely aligned to mesmer magic in nature. Spellbreakers also seem very W/Me (although the colour scheme does seem to put paid to my theories about the colours of spell effects being significant for non-elementalists if so) despite the skill names mostly coming from dervish and ritualist skills from GW1 (Sight beyond Sight was a ritualist skill...), although it could be that their skills do come directly from dervish traditions.

  • Daniel Handler.4816Daniel Handler.4816 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 19, 2018

    @draxynnic.3719 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @draxynnic.3719 said:
    Ah. I didn't double-check her dialogue, so I'd forgotten that she states that her magic doesn't help with her art.

    Nevertheless, particularly among humans, some level of artistic ability seems to be common among mesmers, more so than most other professions. It wouldn't surprise me if that's something they encourage among mesmers in training due to some synergy between artistic ability and mesmer magic.

    While that may be related to remnants of Lyssa worship I believe you are correct in assuming artistry is useful for illusion magic.

    There might also be some unfair advantage, just not in tracing. I think they can give themselves extreme visual acuity.

    • She specifically says Mirage Magic did not help, she did not say Mesmer Magic. She also said they shared techniques with thieves.
    • The Deadeye mentor mentions some thieves having figured out how to sharpen eyesight with shadow magic. But has limited knowledge of the history, only that it seemed gradual. Perhaps the eyesight and marking came from their collaborations with Mesmers.
    • one could say a Mesmer's sight is beyond the sight beyond sight of a Spellbreaker.
    • Kasmeer is able to mark a location with a portal despite being unable to shadowstep to it and not having visibly tossed it over.

    I've theorised for a while that thief magic is very closely aligned to mesmer magic in nature. Spellbreakers also seem very W/Me (although the colour scheme does seem to put paid to my theories about the colours of spell effects being significant for non-elementalists if so) despite the skill names mostly coming from dervish and ritualist skills from GW1 (Sight beyond Sight was a ritualist skill...), although it could be that their skills do come directly from dervish traditions.

    I think the problem comes down to in-game mechanics. All the lore outside of character creation suggests that professions require physical and/or mental prowess in addition to varying levels of magical talent. But when we see an obese Norn thief do a flip everything becomes entirely about magic. There is this false perspective of Tyria as an idyllic world where everyone can be anything regardless of body type or background, and the only natural limitation that can't be overcome with supernatural power are some minor species-specific skills.The unfiltered truth is that Asura cannot be effective warriors, unhealthy people are bad at shadowstep, etc

    My assumption is that illusion magic uses artistic ability as much as sports IRL use physicality. The max amount is not necessary, but there is a min amount to be good at it. There is still an unfair advantage. Mesmer magic doesn't make art easier but it improves existing talent in ways a vanilla artist cannot. Nasrin is a painter, she does not speak for how other artists could be helped. Even then she is lying by omission. Her core training gives helps her tremendously. It provides enhanced senses, inspiration, and a sight beyond the sight beyond sight.

    If Malchor were a chronomancer he could gaze for extended periods without damaging his real eyes. He would still be a great sculptor but it's still an unfair advantage over other great sculptors.

  • Lonami.2987Lonami.2987 Member ✭✭✭

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:
    Or even know they exist? I completely missed them. Even if you don't have PoF someone has meticulously copied all the dialogue to the wiki: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Elite_Specialization_Mentor

    I don't even know if these can be called spoilers since they've apparently been in the game since POF Launched.

    Some things I find interesting from the chat options.

    • A Mirage can have the training equivalent of a doctorate and somehow pay the bills as an artist. That it is the most magical element of this entire franchise.
    • Renegades are seeing glimpses of the Black Citadel when they channel Kalla and they don't know why.
    • Joko was the first scourge and it influenced the creation of the Awakened.
    • Joko has resorted to killing the Scourges he disagrees with. It makes one wonder how many people the Mesmer Collective has killed or brainwashed to safeguard their will.
    • a profession is considered their elite spec just like a physician who specializes in surgery is referred to as a surgeon.

    I think they were a huge waste of potential. Elite specialization mentors should have been part of hero points or mastery points, make us fight against them to know their story, instead of having them standing unnoticed in random locations.

  • Athrenn.9468Athrenn.9468 Member ✭✭✭

    I think that there's something poetic about the relationship between mesmers and the visual arts. A blank canvas is like a mirror for the artist's soul, and we all know how mesmers, mirrors, and Lyssa are all associated somehow. It also works with the whole "true beauty comes from within" motif from Lyssa's scriptures. Dance could also be considered a mirror of sorts as two dancers mirror each other's movements while performing different motions. Being a mesmer might even make dancing easier, or the two talents could develop parallel to each other as the dancer learns to Intuit their partner's movements through some sort of empathetic bond and stance mimicry.

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