Game plan to keep players when CU launches?

From the wiki... “The inspiration for World versus World came from Dark Age of Camelot's realm vs. realm battles.”, and we now know CU, the successor to DAoC, will be launching sometime in 2019... So... I have to directly ask if there are any plans to make sure interest is high, and retention numbers stay strong, for WvW in the future?

I am always very cautious about, and generally avoid, making contrasting comparisons, but the list of features and ideas in CU are appealing to RvR minded players, compared to what is offered in our WvW game mode... Some examples of things that matter to a PvP minded player like me....

-Game engine that can handle up to 300 v 300 v 300 players duking it out in the same area, while still maintaining 30fps.

-Dynamic map systems. http://camelotunchained.com/v3/bsc-design-docs/rvr-map/

-RvR dungeon. https://camelot.gamepedia.com/The_Depths

-30 unique and highly customizable classes built for pvp, that offer various roles for players to play.

-Attractive Stealth system... https://camelot.gamepedia.com/Stealth

“The design goals for this Stretch Goal can be summarized below:

• Goal #1 – Design a fun, interesting stealth mechanic, and classes that are not seen as “Easy Mode” by non-stealthers.
• Goal #2 - Do not design a class that is centered around a strong opener, stun, and vanish with long/unlimited stealth, nor a class that can hide, one-shot, vanish again.
• Goal #3 – Design a class that has the ability to be very active and sought-after, either in RvR groups or as roamers.
• Goal #4 – Design a class that some non-traditional Stealthers want to play.
• Goal #5 – Design a class that requires skill to play well, and not just unlimited patience.
• Goal #6 – Design a system where a gank group of Stealthers is not possible.
• Goal #7 – Design a system that doesn’t affect the launch date of the game.”

-Higher TTK and avoidance of 1 shot mechanics...

https://camelot.gamepedia.com/Combat

“Renée Machyousky (answering the question about TTK - time to kill): "This is a rather loaded question and a lot factors into this. For instance, clearly some characters will be far more vulnerable (lower HP and resists) than others. I can at least say this, we are not over fond of insta-gibbing. We want battles to be hard fought, with plenty of give and take." [4]”

https://camelot.gamepedia.com/VeilWalker

“Alternatively, playing in the style of classical Assassin, the "Lone Wolf", will also be viable - the idea of the design is not to deprive players of options but rather to give them alternatives. Just, there won`t be one-shots or anything close to that - be prepared for longer TTKs (time to kill) than the "average" ones for a Rogue/Assassin in many other games, compensated by other things some of which were already mentioned.”

-Not much on Crowd Control https://camelot.gamepedia.com/Crowd_Control but...

“Camelot Unchained's crowd control (CC) will, amongst other things, give more importance to smaller but well coordinated teams [1],[2]. As Mark Jacobs explained, "There will definitely be CC in Camelot Unchained and it will play an important role in the game. However, there will also be resists and I’m not looking to implement a system where you can CC a player for a year and a day." [1]”

...I’m going to avoid bringing up some other things because I want to focus on the “meat and potatoes” aspects that are the foundation of RvR and PvP combat. I, personally, do not care about things like housing/castle building, or a bunch of other stuff, but I do really care about a quality pvp experience and if a game development team is attempting to hit all the right “hot buttons”... and are portraying a willingness to make sure the core elements are solid for their target audience.

I’m not requesting that the devs start pouring out lists of ideas for WvW, although it would be cool to have those discussions, I’m just trying to hi-light some things that matter for RvR and PvP game modes... And importantly, some of things I’ve mentioned have been points of contention in GW2.

I just sincerely hope that the team is looking to make sure that WvW, professions and combat mechanics do not remain an afterthought for too long, because that near future game, CU, with roughly a $10m budget, seems to be headed in the right direction... And I’m feeling a lot more faith in the above, as opposed to the team that earned $87 million in 2017, that is only talking about Alliances currently.

Prefer to see it at launch, and not debate over a speculative game. D:

and the answer is...drumroll

! world restructuring

What is camelot unchain?that a movie or somethin?

if you're gonna scare anet make sure you have a real iphone killer, not a No Man’s Sky flop

heres a progressive RvR

Lol CU... been killing WvW every year since 2013!

I will believe it when I see it. From what have seen so far, its ugly with choppy af animations and going at 5 fps in battles (I search youtube for "cu gameplay" every 5 months or so and never find anything of worth). Of course thats pretty much prealpha so of course its gonna get better there, but still zero things that has impressed. All those fancy features above is still a pipe dream. Guess it will be interesting to see how the beta looks in a couple of months.

If they are still going with subscriptions, CU is most likely dead on arrival as it will never achieve enough of a population to be of any interest. What CU does is pretty much f2p games today.

Alliance population revamp is what they'll use to counter it...

“Alternatively, playing in the style of classical Assassin, the "Lone Wolf", will also be viable - the idea of the design is not to deprive players of options but rather to give them alternatives. Just, there won`t be one-shots or anything close to that - be prepared for longer TTKs (time to kill) than the "average" ones for a Rogue/Assassin in many other games, compensated by other things some of which were already mentioned.”

My ears have perked.But subs still...My ears have receded once again.Gw2 balance...Sigh.

Also official beta test may start in summer, and release for 2019. Can't really judge a game still in alpha stages when things are still missing and optimization isn't even close to being done, dunno why people bother to point out the bad things in those stages.

@GDchiaScrub.3241 said:Prefer to see it at launch, and not debate over a speculative game. D:

Ok, but development takes time and it’s a bad move for Anet to wait until CU launches to start thinking about making strong improvements and changes... CU is going to be the only strong RvR challenge to GW2 WvW, and people are already making comparisons, so being proactive is always better than reactive.

@"XenesisII.1540" said:Also official beta test may start in summer, and release for 2019. Can't really judge a game still in alpha stages when things are still missing and optimization isn't even close to being done, dunno why people bother to point out the bad things in those stages.Because those "bad things" often remain.

Its like people saying in the Battlefront 2 beta "well this loot crate system is bad" and EA saying "dont worry its gonna get much better on release, we're only thinking about whats best for our players and the game balance!" and... yeah... about that...

Still, the subscription is probably whats gonna kill it anyway. If GW2 had subscription on release? Lol... yeah like I'm gonna bother sticking around WvW when I cant even see enemies due to culling. The only reason we maintained players in the guild was that we convinced them that fuck it, its only $50 and worse case scenario is that you dont like it and is down another game, but those of us that do play can always get you back to check it out. Maybe its better. Maybe we can make it work.

In comparison, ESO was a complete and utter disaster due to the hard subscription barrier. 1-2 months after release the guild had lost 95% of its players and they wherent coming back because they couldnt and wouldnt bother.

Can't use EA as an example.. they're known to be greedy and launch stuff early regardless if it's ready or not, they don't give two figs about players or even the companies they buy out and then trash to the side after they pillaged them for a title or two, loot boxes is the next step to ripping off customers, they're bottom of the barrel, Ubisoft is not far behind.

There are some developers who will take the extra time to polish stuff, I know they're behind on CU, but still it's in alpha state and you really can't judge a game that's like half complete, where systems are still being worked on or changed, judge it when it hits beta that's when things won't change drastically afterwards.

And yeah subs in this day and age will instantly send them to disaster especially if the game launches in an unplayable state, most of the sub games that have come out in the last 5-8 years have quickly converted to f2p/b2p with cash shop instead. Even WoW will eventually get to that point, they've been slowly implementing it in WoW and the rest of their games are already there.

anet yes needs to make changes. one is already discussed with players. tho you are looking way ahead in the future. best case scenario for cu is to released in 2019. it may not be able to manage (tho it's still early to judge if it can or can't to release the game in 2019)

CU eh been waiting for that game since its "launch" years ago

Their kickstarter was done in 2013, it's 2018, now close to five years when a mmo typically takes 4-6 years to develop. Were people expecting the game out like 3 years ago? Even gw2 took 5 years.lol

@"XenesisII.1540" said:Were people expecting the game out like 3 years ago? Even gw2 took 5 years.lolYes they were. No seriously, people have been ranting about how CU was gonna kill GW2 WvW from the moment they saw it and it was always just "next year".

I checked some things about camelot unchained one morning but it had some things stand out to me that might not suit lot of people.Things like:

• Each class type is bound to the faction youre in. If you wanna play Child of Loki, you have to be vikings. What if you dont wanna be vikings because your friend/guild prefers celtics but you love Child of loki?
• The classes seem very limiting. Things like Skald have should and music abilities but not any real combat abilities. Scouts cant even deal any damage, why would I play that, I scouted, did some panic skills => we lost a fight????? At least let me 1v1 other scouts..
• Fire mage... Water mage... Earth mage...... Why not just combine them? Do you really want to play a class that has potential of only like 5 different skills with like 5 different ways to cast them?
• There isn't much solo potential on classes which is kinda turn off. Voice comms will be full of 12 year old kids during release anyways so its gonna be hard to stay interested if you're bound to group content.

Overall I cant say much about combat because there isnt any gameplay videos but RvR games sometimes turn into a mess. Imagine 5 viking hammer dudes holding some kind doorway while getting healed by skalds and stonehealers.... If theres no 1-shot mechanics, lets hope it will be awesome for someone else than the hammer dudes....

I am also hyped about Camelot Unchained because Crowfall and Ascent:infinite realm that will be released in next ~year or so don't seem too great. I doubt I can wait 2 years for the game though. Thus I am more hyped about Worlds Restructing

@"Threather.9354" said:

• There isn't much solo potential on classes which is kinda turn off. Voice comms will be full of 12 year old kids during release anyways so its gonna be hard to stay interested.That I really doubt as the 12 year olds will be busy playing either the current esports fps game (like Overwatch), that years b2p "MMO" game (Destiny 6?), whats currently popular in the f2p market (games like Fortnite, Paladins, Warframe, etc) or still playing WoW out of habit (altough most 12 year olds there are what, 52 years today?).

They wont play "hardcore" subscription games, lol. Much like most people. I wouldnt worry about that.

@Threather.9354 said:

• There isn't much solo potential on classes which is kinda turn off. Voice comms will be full of 12 year old kids during release anyways so its gonna be hard to stay interested if you're bound to group content.

How is that different from playing WvW with the NA community or going into spvp? Most 12 year old are nicer and more skilled that what you got in spvp (or NA pvp)

@Swagger.1459 said:

@"GDchiaScrub.3241" said:Prefer to see it at launch, and not debate over a speculative game. D:

What is competitive to GW2 (not just WvW) is other potential "

." E.g. games that attempt to be a daily thing or be that one game that you come back to often (like so many other MMOs have tried...) Yes, CU could be that in theory. It could also be some shooter. Or a MMO puzzle game (yay, exaggeration). Jim might be on to something...we'll be spammed by these "live services" in 2018, and that's probably what ANET will pay attention to. Not just CU. Which is why I personally am on the "wait and see" boat. As a consumer it makes sense to be on that boat.

If you think gw2 has balance issues, you should see a Mark Jacobs game at launch.

Implying CU will be any good and what current WvW players even want.

CU isn't really going to take away the main core of this game.

It's lacking a lot of the things that maintain GW2's longterm players. It has a sub fee, which is already a crapshoot. It has incredibly narrowly specialized classes, which means you're basically worthless as an individual player: you're just reduced to a drone in a massive megablob. Sure, that appeals to some players, but it also doesn't to a far greater number of players.

All that talk about "time-to-kill" basically means they're going to take reactions speed and any semblance of pace out of it. It's going to be a slow-ass mess of people who, currently in GW2, keyboard turn and skill click and complain about "too much damage waah" on here while disregarding the fact their reaction speeds are equivalent to those of a geriatric snail.

I don't think it'll be a bad game, but it's not going to hit GW2 as hard as some people think, especially considering the playerbase CU plans to appeal to and the playerbase GW2 already appeals to.

CU doing awsome feedback with game players B)

I'm more worried about crowfall than CU.

@LetoII.3782 said:If you think gw2 has balance issues, you should see a Mark Jacobs game at launch.

Old Mark Jacobs had a farmE-I-E-I-OAnd on his farm he had a stunE-I-E-I-OWith a cc hereAnd a stun stun thereHere a cc, there a stunEverywhere a cc stunOld Mark Jacobs had a farmE-I-E-I-O

I'm really looking forward to CU and Crowfall, but both of those games have a long ways to go before they can compete with GW2's WvW.

WvW does have a ton of issues (alliances should help) but it and ESO are still the only games in town for RvR. And ANET's tech is pretty amazing imo.

For RvR players this should be a good year. Competition has the ANET devs actually doing something for WvW instead of lip service. CU (Beta 1 in July) and Crowfall are nearing release. May the better game win.

CU seems like it is going to flop pretty hard if it even ever gets finished. They are trying to appeal to everyone with comments and ideas - which is not possible to do in reality. So it sure does look good on paper! But if it ever gets complete, I'm guessing only a fraction of players will be happy with their system/structure/rewards/combat etc...

Basically...don't hype something that does not deserve to be hyped yet. You're going to be disappointed.