tried playing an engi for a couple days... lol for hours I was trying to land my 100 nades and could never get it to land with all the guard and warrior bubbles.

rippy mcripperson projectile damagehttp://commentphotos.com/images/opengraph/CommentPhotos.com_1406570831.jpg

with all the reflections now it's even more absurd, when a blob is attacking a gate in wvw and I place a reflecting bubble on the gate I have seen some people die from it.Guardian, tome of courage #3 with reduced cooldown

The fun part is that nobody really notices it, they just keep mindlessly spamming at the gate :p

@Zantal.4798 said:

The fun part is that nobody really notices it, they just keep mindlessly spamming at the gate :p

I think that is part of the issue. Other than bubble, what reflect has been added to the game since PoF?

guard bubble is the only reflect, but its everywhere so it seems like there are a million reflects.

winds of disenchant too, but its an elite and slow CD - sry only blocks my bad

And this is why rangers are not the solution to scourges in large scale fights.Even before PoF I've never played a game with as much projectile hate as this one. Not even just blocks or reflects either, kiting/mobility favors the melee too (there's just so much of it and you move significantly slower whilst back peddling). We sort of just have to deal with it, unfortunately.

~ Kovu

@Kovu.7560 said:And this is why rangers are not the solution to scourges in large scale fights.Even before PoF I've never played a game with as much projectile hate as this one. Not even just blocks or reflects either, kiting/mobility favors the melee too. Sort of just have to deal with it, unfortunately.

~ KovuNor revenants, which zergs are so eager to stack to counter scourges (they really dont).

There are pretty much two ways to counter a scourge zerg protected by reflects and that's bringing even more scourges than the enemy or using greatsword burst mesmers to bypass defenses.

Since mesmers arent allowed to be used in zergs by our awesome-glorious-melee-overlord-god-firebrand-commanders, it's really just scourges.

Why do people not use mesmers?Group stealth is nice, boonshare is still decently strong and that one-shot-from-stealth bullshit has hit me more than once.Not to mention portal bombs are fun -- the best way to shit on a group of players turtled behind siege inside a tower.

My scourge does get 2-shot by revs, but if that's happening I'm probably out of position without a firebrand's teet to suck on.

~ Kovu

It's a never ending battle between being a friendly gameplay to melee, or to ranged. Remember the pirate ship meta? Horrible. Melee trains are my personal preference.

Proprojectilehate #meleelove

@Kovu.7560 said:And this is why rangers are not the solution to scourges in large scale fights.Even before PoF I've never played a game with as much projectile hate as this one. Not even just blocks or reflects either, kiting/mobility favors the melee too (there's just so much of it and you move significantly slower whilst back peddling). We sort of just have to deal with it, unfortunately.

~ Kovu

Oh they are indeed the solution to scourges in large scale flights. See a wall of reflection, walk around it and start firing. See a bubble, wait for it to expire, then keep firing. Rangers very easily dispatch of scourges both in 1v1, small scale, and large scale fights.

The one thing Scourges have going for them is people typically won't play rangers so they are safe to rampage. When people figure out to finally jump on a ranger, it's pretty much a shooting gallery.

@DeadlySynz.3471 said:

@Kovu.7560 said:And this is why rangers are

not

the solution to scourges in large scale fights.Even before PoF I've never played a game with as much projectile hate as this one. Not even just blocks or reflects either, kiting/mobility favors the melee too (there's just so much of it and you move significantly slower whilst back peddling). We sort of just have to deal with it, unfortunately.

~ Kovu

Wow. Really? You must be new to this gamemode.With all of the elemenalists, guardians and warriors running around there is no such thing as walking around a reflection wall or waiting for a bubble to expire. When we're talking about those kinds of numbers there is always. some. other reflect up in its place before the initial wall/bubble expires.There. Is. No. Downtime. These effects do not expire after absorbing a number of projectiles (they really should), and there are frequently a whole bunch overlapping so there won't be any skirting around them.

One of my guildies, a minstrel guard is frequently top 5 in dps because they're running a bunch of reflects.

The only way a ranger (or any ranged attack) can hit jack in or around an enemy zerg ever is to run the marksmanship pierce trait AND an unblockable ability -- there aren't many of those, they don't last that long and they compete for other good traits/utilities. Not to mention the damage from ranger arrows isn't that great against a heavy classes to begin with and the necro usually has barrier, protection and ongoing healing from its surrounding allies.

~ Kovu

@Kovu.7560 said:

@DeadlySynz.3471 said:

@Kovu.7560 said:And this is why rangers are

not

the solution to scourges in large scale fights.Even before PoF I've never played a game with as much projectile hate as this one. Not even just blocks or reflects either, kiting/mobility favors the melee too (there's just so much of it and you move significantly slower whilst back peddling). We sort of just have to deal with it, unfortunately.

~ Kovu

Soulbeast has very high Unblockable uptime now, actually. Signet of the Hunt + Unstoppable Union + Call of the Wild can generate quite a bit of time for on-demand unblockability. Plus, barrage doesn't care about projectile hate anyway. Soulbeast is criminally underused in zergs right now.

It's only now that you've found out OP?

came back from a break

@"Kovu.7560" said:Why do people not use mesmers?Group stealth is nice, boonshare is still decently strong and that one-shot-from-stealth kitten has hit me more than once.Not to mention portal bombs are fun -- the best way to kitten on a group of players turtled behind siege inside a tower.

My scourge does get 2-shot by revs, but if that's happening I'm probably out of position without a firebrand's teet to suck on.

~ Kovu

Because the "omg mesmer one shot me" tears are from glass players, not tanky firebrands and scourges who just laugh it off. Also clones evaporate in zerg fights so you get unreliable mind wracks, I think as I don't play mesmer.

@Zantal.4798 said:with all the reflections now it's even more absurd, when a blob is attacking a gate in wvw and I place a reflecting bubble on the gate I have seen some people die from it.Guardian, tome of courage #3 with reduced cooldown

The fun part is that nobody really notices it, they just keep mindlessly spamming at the gate :p

I used to set zergs on fire with burn guard and wall of reflection. Was insane to see.

@Justine.6351 said:

@"Kovu.7560" said:Why do people not use mesmers?Group stealth is nice, boonshare is still decently strong and that one-shot-from-stealth kitten has hit me more than once.Not to mention portal bombs are fun -- the best way to kitten on a group of players turtled behind siege inside a tower.

My scourge does get 2-shot by revs, but if that's happening I'm probably out of position without a firebrand's teet to suck on.

~ Kovu

plenty of classes can just about or easily one shot ppl with 3k armor

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@Justine.6351 said:

@"Kovu.7560" said:Why do people not use mesmers?Group stealth is nice, boonshare is still decently strong and that one-shot-from-stealth kitten has hit me more than once.Not to mention portal bombs are fun -- the best way to kitten on a group of players turtled behind siege inside a tower.

My scourge does get 2-shot by revs, but if that's happening I'm probably out of position without a firebrand's teet to suck on.

~ Kovu

Ah yes, another player that believes 3k armor means you shouldn't need protection and -% damage modifiers to stay alive with sub 20k HP when targeted by someone playing a glass build.

we have the choice to have an alt set of weapons to counter the enemy. or choose a different tactic to fight them.

@Justine.6351 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@Justine.6351 said:

@"Kovu.7560" said:Why do people not use mesmers?Group stealth is nice, boonshare is still decently strong and that one-shot-from-stealth kitten has hit me more than once.Not to mention portal bombs are fun -- the best way to kitten on a group of players turtled behind siege inside a tower.

My scourge does get 2-shot by revs, but if that's happening I'm probably out of position without a firebrand's teet to suck on.

~ Kovu

wow didn't know there was an expert on my beliefs up in heresomeone give this man a raise

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

@Kovu.7560 said:

@DeadlySynz.3471 said:

@Kovu.7560 said:And this is why rangers are

not

the solution to scourges in large scale fights.Even before PoF I've never played a game with as much projectile hate as this one. Not even just blocks or reflects either, kiting/mobility favors the melee too (there's just so much of it and you move significantly slower whilst back peddling). We sort of just have to deal with it, unfortunately.

~ Kovu

Fair enough, I'll give you that much. That said it would be neat if core ranger had a little more uptime on the unblockability.

~ Kovu

@Kovu.7560 said:

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

@Kovu.7560 said:

@DeadlySynz.3471 said:

@Kovu.7560 said:And this is why rangers are

not

the solution to scourges in large scale fights.Even before PoF I've never played a game with as much projectile hate as this one. Not even just blocks or reflects either, kiting/mobility favors the melee too (there's just so much of it and you move significantly slower whilst back peddling). We sort of just have to deal with it, unfortunately.

~ Kovu

Can't say I disagree with you there, but I can understand why it would be an Elite Spec thing at the same time.

Still there are more than enough glass pew-pew rangers, so there just can't be enough reflects... And if you are talking about largescale fights, those aren't "balanced" yet, they just barely separated WvW balancing from the rest of the game, so expect everything to be PvE style or 5vs5 at best.

@Hexinx.1872 said:Remember the pirate ship meta?

Remember? It IS the current meta.

@Odinens.5920 said:

@Hexinx.1872 said:Remember the pirate ship meta?

Yes, some still do it, but now at least can be countered (with the right composition, and maybe right spot)