New Elite Spec Support ideas

So I am a big fan of the Guardian overall, but I particularly love the Firebrand and the tomes. I have always thought that it is a shame that the Spec cannot compete with other meta support options.

So brainstroming while trying to fall asleep I had a few ideas I thought would be worth mentioning. I do not think FB needs to be changed to offer better support since the overhaul would need to be too extensive. Rather the new Elite Spec could become a strong support option for us.

New weapon could be the Warhorn with some group buff abilities. Can be used with Mace or SceptreStaff needs rework to offer better support and healing.

F1 - When activated gives Ashes of the Just Buff to allies, as well as giving a unique buff which improves group damage by 10% for 10 secondsF2 - When activated heals and cleanses 3 considitions from alliess, as well as giving a unique buff which improves healing received by 33% for 10 secondsF3 - When activated provides aegis and protection to allies, as well as reducing incoming damage to allies by 20% for 10 seconds

Utility skills could be wells which pulse boons or healing in the area

I think something like this could really work well for guardian, and give us good Power, Condi, and Support Spec options

this xpac just released a support spec, I doubt many would want another one. makes no sense to release a new support spec if there already is one. make changes to the existing one before.........

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:this xpac just released a support spec, I doubt many would want another one. makes no sense to release a new support spec if there already is one. make changes to the existing one before.........

Agree imo Id rather have a more fun interactive power dps spec, unlike the trap spammer spec.

How about a tank spec since after all we are Guard ians.

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:this xpac just released a support spec, I doubt many would want another one. makes no sense to release a new support spec if there already is one. make changes to the existing one before.........

Well the issue here is that as far as I know Firebrand only works as a support in PvP as a bunker build. In PvE it does work, but it cannot compete with the roles of Chrono or Druid because they give better buffs. So apart from reworking the entire Firebrand spec, including the utility skills, I do not see how it is possible. I think of Firebrand as Condi DPS, rather than support in PvE

@Oldirtbeard.9834 said:How about a tank spec since after all we are Guard ians.

Sure, and I think my idea can be worked to fit that role. I think of support quite broadly and it includes roles of tanking or healing while providing useful buffs to the party

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:this xpac just released a support spec, I doubt many would want another one. makes no sense to release a new support spec if there already is one. make changes to the existing one before.........

Agreed, although I think the changes support FB needs for PvE are rather small. Big changes need to happen elsewhere, i.e. to druid and chrono. Unless their bloated kits are severely reduced, I don't think any other support spec has a realistic chance to compete with them.

werd./15werds

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:this xpac just released a support spec, I doubt many would want another one. makes no sense to release a new support spec if there already is one. make changes to the existing one before.........

@GWStunnerz.9507 said:Agree imo Id rather have a more fun interactive power dps spec, unlike the trap spammer spec.

@CptAurellian.9537 said:Agreed, although I think the changes support FB needs for PvE are rather small. Big changes need to happen elsewhere, i.e. to druid and chrono. Unless their bloated kits are severely reduced, I don't think any other support spec has a realistic chance to compete with them.

I am intersted to know what part of Firebrand you find so effective for support? The uptime of supportive tomes? The group utility of mantras? or the support offered by the axe? If it was a support spec it would have received something more like the druid staff. It seems more geared for condi DPS with some support options, just like you can play Druid for DPS, but it is a support spec.

the aegis, stab, heals and condi clears? saying it isn't effective is fine for pve but saying it isn't a support spec is false.

@Omnicron.2467 said:I am intersted to know what part of Firebrand you find so effective for support? The uptime of supportive tomes? The group utility of mantras? or the support offered by the axe? If it was a support spec it would have received something more like the druid staff. It seems more geared for condi DPS with some support options, just like you can play Druid for DPS, but it is a support spec.

For PvE? Theoretically the ability to provide perma quickness, fury, a bunch of might stacks, tons of aegis, utility and either healing or substantial damage. Those things would need just some small tweaks to take away some annoying issues like the rather small areas covered by mantras. Unfortunately, they are all worthless when chronos and druids cover the relevant roles much better than any other support class could even dream of.

@"Stand The Wall.6987" said:this xpac just released a support spec, I doubt many would want another one. makes no sense to release a new support spec if there already is one. make changes to the existing one before.........

And for pve, we got 2 dps specs in a row. So, what do you propose? A 3rd dps? Or a scrapper-like "tank" spec that will only work in pvp?

Changes won't help, FB is unsalvageable for pve. It adds absolutely nothing to guardian, it's a rehash of the same "defensive" support core guardian already offers than has never worked in pve for all the years the game has existed. And even though non-druid healers had some moderate success, firebrand remains a bad healer gated by enormous cooldowns and tiny ranges.

@RabbitUp.8294 said:firebrand remains a bad healer gated by enormous cooldowns and tiny ranges.

so start there

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@RabbitUp.8294 said:firebrand remains a bad healer gated by enormous cooldowns and tiny ranges.

Kind of hard to do that when firebrand is getting nerfed because of pvp/wvw. Not only did they not buff pve support FB, they destroyed F3, and with it a major source of additional healing/damage mitigation, as well as rendered Mantra of Liberation pointless.

When they refuse to do split changes for these 2 cases, I don't see how they will suddenly decide to go back and review firebrand for pve. Not to mention the issue of range is not something you can easily solve. They won't make tome abilities larger for pve only, nor will mace suddenly become a ranged weapon. But even if somehow firebrand became an amazing healer, it would still be bad in the current meta, compared to other non-druid healers. Revenant provides unique buffs, and enormous heals, while Tempest has the biggest coverage and is extremely reliable.

Plus, why do all that when they can just sell another elite spec? Firebrand was nothing but a paid buff to core guardian, why not repeat it?

I just said why lolwhatevs

I would rather next elite spec involves dps and mobility. FB is mainly support.

I just want my rifle guardian.

Yes, a third DPS in a row to really drive the point home that guardian is not meant to do anything other than damage.

a Support spec for one of the most supportive class (Overall) in the game... Right after it received a spec that can only be described as, allround with a small hint of super strong Group Support.The Firebrand is not!!!! a dps spec. It runs quite good on dps. admit that. But the main Point is the Support. And the Support is huge.The Problem is, that it is mainly defensive Support. stability, resistance, healing, converting boons. Not the Kind of offensive Support everyone is looking for. Few might. Few Fury, only a full uptime on quickness if equipped for it. But then lacking everything else.

In WvW and PvP the Guard is undoubtly the best supportive class there is right now. Even without firebrand. But especially with firebrand. So stating that firebrand is no Support spec is plain wrong and Shows a lack of knowledge on the game and the Guardian as a whole.

There are several things you could go for with the next spec.

A "real" condi spec (not just burning).

A spec providing a decent amount of offensive boons (aka. Might, fury, alacrity, quickness) what you are roughly aiming at. But please without new buffs.

Just to Point some things out in your post:

The staff is fine. Not meant for PvE. Leave it where it is. only some tweaks maybe.

What you suggest for the F2 (the 33 % more healing received plus cleansing boons) is basically what the f2/5 (tome) is doing.

Same with F3, basically F3/5 (have you ever played firebrand)?????

What you are offering is plain bad. These buffs are nowhere even Close to the Utility the firebrand is bringing to the table so there would be no Need to Change away from that.

The well Thing you proposed is called Consecration and already there (Dude, really, do you Play Guardian at all?)

Adding wells would only make sense if you put them in an offensive way. (Condi spec) Otherwise already there.

The way the Guardian is right now, there is very few to add. Stances would have been possible (Optimum would have been the soulbeast stances :( )

Therefore i guess we will see something really new. Maybe even completely new virtues.

@"Seffen.2875" said:a Support spec for one of the most supportive class (Overall) in the game... Right after it received a spec that can only be described as, allround with a small hint of super strong Group Support.The Firebrand is not!!!! a dps spec. It runs quite good on dps. admit that. But the main Point is the Support. And the Support is huge.The Problem is, that it is mainly defensive Support. stability, resistance, healing, converting boons. Not the Kind of offensive Support everyone is looking for. Few might. Few Fury, only a full uptime on quickness if equipped for it. But then lacking everything else.

In WvW and PvP the Guard is undoubtly the best supportive class there is right now. Even without firebrand. But especially with firebrand. So stating that firebrand is no Support spec is plain wrong and Shows a lack of knowledge on the game and the Guardian as a whole.

There are several things you could go for with the next spec.

A "real" condi spec (not just burning).

A spec providing a decent amount of offensive boons (aka. Might, fury, alacrity, quickness) what you are roughly aiming at. But please without new buffs.

Just to Point some things out in your post:

The staff is fine. Not meant for PvE. Leave it where it is. only some tweaks maybe.

What you suggest for the F2 (the 33 % more healing received plus cleansing boons) is basically what the f2/5 (tome) is doing.

Same with F3, basically F3/5 (have you ever played firebrand)?????

What you are offering is plain bad. These buffs are nowhere even Close to the Utility the firebrand is bringing to the table so there would be no Need to Change away from that.

The well Thing you proposed is called Consecration and already there (Dude, really, do you Play Guardian at all?)

Adding wells would only make sense if you put them in an offensive way. (Condi spec) Otherwise already there.

The way the Guardian is right now, there is very few to add. Stances would have been possible (Optimum would have been the soulbeast stances :( )

Therefore i guess we will see something really new. Maybe even completely new virtues.

Yup, I know that these are from the Firebrand tomes, they are examples of what is already offered by FB and rolling them into a new spec so you keep the strong supportive aspects of Firebrand in a new spec for PvE. It is just a start for a direction, not a final poilished version, so chill out.

@"Seffen.2875" said:In WvW and PvP the Guard is undoubtly the best supportive class there is right now. Even without firebrand. But especially with firebrand. So stating that firebrand is no Support spec is plain wrong and Shows a lack of knowledge on the game and the Guardian as a whole.

Yes, in wvw guardian has always been a stability bot, and would continue playing as one even without firebrand. What does that prove?

The Firebrand is not!!!! a dps spec. It runs quite good on dps. admit that. But the main Point is the Support. And the Support is huge.

You can't call firebrand pure support when it has a such a heavy focus on condi dps, the burning is not there by accident. It's a hybrid spec, that plays only as dps in pve and only as support in pvp. We already have a spec for power dps and one for condi dps, do they need to invent a new kind of damage so you can enjoy your third dps spec?

a Support spec for one of the most supportive class (Overall) in the game...

lol

The Problem is, that it is mainly defensive Support. stability, resistance, healing, converting boons. Not the Kind of offensive Support everyone is looking for. Few might. Few Fury, only a full uptime on quickness if equipped for it. But then lacking everything else.

Except that you can provide those things. Maybe you are the one who lacks understanding of the game and guardian as a whole?

You can provide perma fury with sword, even using the quickness burn build. And you can stack 25 might. The problem is that those things and more can be provided by other classes and with better QoL (bigger range, and more targets in the case of druid).

Support firebrand in pve is literally half a chrono, especially now that chrono's healing was buffed. The only extra thing you offer is stability, which is both of limited usefulness, and can also be provided by DH who uses Stand your Ground as part of their regular build.

There are several things you could go for with the next spec.A "real" condi spec (not just burning).

So, the same exact thing, but now with cover condis? Firebrand even tried to do it with bleeding, and I don't see how a spec will make poison, torment and/or confusion make thematic sense for guardian.

A spec providing a decent amount of offensive boons (aka. Might, fury, alacrity, quickness) what you are roughly aiming at. But please without new buffs.

Is that not a support spec? And do you really think they will make a second spec that provides quickness?

The staff is fine. Not meant for PvE. Leave it where it is. only some tweaks maybe.

Show me another weapon that is supposed to be only useful in pvp/wvw. And it's not like it's hard to make it useful, it's part of what makes stacking 25 might possible and has some decent healing. The problem is that it only has 2 skills. Auto is garbage in every game mode, and 5 is literally useless in pve. Symbol of swiftness is not anything to write home about, but it's passable.

Therefore i guess we will see something really new. Maybe even completely new virtues.

We see that every spec. It's just confirmation that the devs are fully aware how bad base virtues are, still won't do anything about them, though.

Hammer +Offhand diablo style !

As utilities would be stances or wards to share with alies, but on a paragon gw1 theme.

FB is the guardian healer, the hammer+offhand could be the protection elite variant, and instead of adding barrier to guard, Anet could improve protection with this skill as much aegis having a diferent behavior.Maybe this would be the way guard could be a melee pusher and compensate all those shade aoe spamfields ????