Lasting Legacy Nerf Should Be Reverted.

Lasting Legacy should be changed back to it's original tuning of +20% Condi Damage and 300 Ferocity... Or even buffed to be ~25% Condi Damage.

After the recent round of balance and the alacrity nerf, Renegade is one of the lowest condi benchmarks (on small hitbox) at 31k, which is 3-5k behind their contemporaries--all of which have easier to execute rotations. This change wouldn't even have to be PvE only either, as you could safely increase Renegade's damage in other game modes without breaking them, since they have such terrible survivability that nobody would play them anyways.

Now before anyone says, "But Renegade does good DPS on Large Hitbox targets," that's mostly due to taking Vindication, which you take instead of Lasting Legacy... So the rebuffing wouldn't lead to any new OP dps situations against those bosses.

The ferocity on Kallas fervor should be given a straight buff but the condi % should stay the same.

I would not call the rotation for condi renegade hard by any stretch. It is really simple:

In general, use Mace 2 and Mace 3 when off cooldown. Preferably in that order. Use axe 5 off cooldown as well.Open in Mallyx, blow all your energy on Unyielding Anguish, Axe 5, and Embrace the Darkness.Swap to Kalla, use Citadel Bombardment, then when energy builds up use Razorclaw.Swap to Mallyx when legend is off cooldown. Use Embrace the Darkness and just continue as normal until you can swap again.

There are very few cooldowns to keep track of (only 4), and no simultaneous actions required. Compare that to the mirage, which requires simultaneous jaunting, weapon swapping, dodging, navigating into mirrors, and manual action pressing every 3 seconds, or to the chronomancer which has to keep track of 9 different cooldowns on skills that cannot be queued up with each other.

The damage itself is a bit odd. The benchmarks don't account for the group benefits of assassin's presence, burst from stored up energy during invulnerability periods, or the missing razorclaw procs. That said, I wouldn't mind a personal DPS buff to the class.

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:I would not call the rotation for condi renegade hard by any stretch. It is really simple:

In general, use Mace 2 and Mace 3 when off cooldown. Preferably in that order. Use axe 5 off cooldown as well.Open in Mallyx, blow all your energy on Unyielding Anguish, Axe 5, and Embrace the Darkness.Swap to Kalla, use Citadel Bombardment, then when energy builds up use Razorclaw.Swap to Mallyx when legend is off cooldown. Use Embrace the Darkness and just continue as normal until you can swap again.

There are very few cooldowns to keep track of (only 4), and no simultaneous actions required. Compare that to the mirage, which requires simultaneous jaunting, weapon swapping, dodging, navigating into mirrors, and manual action pressing every 3 seconds, or to the chronomancer which has to keep track of 9 different cooldowns on skills that cannot be queued up with each other.

The damage itself is a bit odd. The benchmarks don't account for the group benefits of assassin's presence, burst from stored up energy during invulnerability periods, or the missing razorclaw procs. That said, I wouldn't mind a personal DPS buff to the class.

I wouldn't call it had either... Just more to it than the other condi classes. I will agree that Mirage is prolly the hardest of the condi specs tho... It's really tempting to break your aa chains and know when to use symmetry for a gain instead of a loss.

Latest round of balance provided renegades with a huge alacrity boost not a nerf.

Alacrity is now a boon. That means it stacks in duration and is affected by concentration. Anyone who's dealt with alacrity ingame knows that that recharge speed reduction talk means jack if you can't keep alacrity up, preferably 24/7. Well a renegade no longer has those issues - Righteous Rebel + Orders from Above+ boon duration = 100% alacrity uptime for party for a very low price.

This blows old alacrity out of the water, because the ever slightly stronger effect (25% shorter cooldows vs current 20%, given 100% uptime), was meaningless in face of huge costs and inability to constantly maintain it.

@ZeftheWicked.3076 said:Latest round of balance provided renegades with a huge alacrity boost not a nerf.

Alacrity is now a boon. That means it stacks in duration and is affected by concentration. Anyone who's dealt with alacrity ingame knows that that recharge speed reduction talk means jack if you can't keep alacrity up, preferably 24/7. Well a renegade no longer has those issues - Righteous Rebel + Orders from Above+ boon duration = 100% alacrity uptime for party for a very low price.

This blows old alacrity out of the water, because the ever slightly stronger effect (25% shorter cooldows vs current 20%, given 100% uptime), was meaningless in face of huge costs and inability to constantly maintain it.

This is talking to DPS Renegade, not support. DPS Renegade would already have had 100% (or near 100%) alacrity uptime from their chronomancer friends.

And with alacrity providing 8% less cooldown reduction, you get off less Searing Fissures per stance, which hurt (About a 2-3k dps loss vs 4million fight). The only other class hit this hard by the alacrity changes was Dragon Hunter, and they too have fallen behind their power dps contemporaries by a similar amount.

Even referring to Support Renegade, they now have to build for concentration instead of being able to run full Vipers, which completely changes their role/usefulness in a raid comp. They're pretty much forced to just play a healing role as Condi Damage without Expertise is horrible. While they had some desirability and functionality in a Condi Drood like secondary-support role before, now they can only be a healer... And as a healer, everyone will always still want a druid for spotter/might/spirits/SnR... So that pretty much means that you can only bring your support Renegade for groups that want 2 or 3 healers now... Or I suppose you could function as the healer/tank in some groups if you also had a off chrono or quickness firebrand in your sub and a condi druid in the group--but that's a pretty rare, off-meta, situation.

Also, back to my original point about rebuffing Lasting Legacy not being OP--you can't bring LL and Righteous Rebel--so it would be there to strictly benefit dps renegades and not create any situations where people are doing crazy good dps from a support role.

Well from the top:

1. Alacrity provides 8% less cooldown recharge speed. that's not the same as reduction. The latter is derived from first. Long (and mathy) story short - before 3s in alacrity were equal to 4s without. Now it's 4s in alacrity equalling 5 without. But now you maintan it far longer

2. No need to build concentration if that's so scary. One soulbeast with moa stance (that's all it takes) + sigil of concentration in weapon and you got 99% boon duration window without any concentration gear. Feel free to go crazy with vipers. You can also trait your renegade stance skills to give your party protection, so alacrity + might + protection on the house with no support gear investments.

3. True, lasting legacy and rightheous rebel are mutually exclusive and if you are a pure dps renegade that is a nerf. I won't weep for condi part, but ferocity they could've left alone since power renegade is not above condi on dps charts.

But tbh i think ppl are way too crazy about dps this, dps that. Firstly if raids are to remain raids (and not ez mode). Player's dps needs to be kept in check. Else the challenge will be gone. 30k dps is a solid number that most should have and don't need to go far above. It's the elementalists and guardians that need to have theirs curbed down, it's gone out of control for far too long (and not only in PvE).

Also let's keep in mind that all these godly dps benchmarks aren't real. It's golem dps. There are still at least two "tiny" matters of survival rate on a given profession in a real raid, and the damage it provides to allies, that golem can't test, like guardian's virtue of justice, or renegade's razorclaw's rage. Albeit the latter does seem weaker. I speak ofc PvE, in competitive eeesh, let's not even go there.

This will take some more testing, but before i throw a rock at a-net, i gotta keep in mind how much support and survival i can shove in an otherwise dps oriented builds before it stops meeting dps requirements. If i recall right condi drood had dps round 17k? That a pretty large field for renegade to fit in if he wants to go the middle road.

Bottom line - if it does ~30k damage (and can do some things on the side, like grant barriers, boons, properly cleanse, survive better then most) then i say deal is good and no need to panic.

Renegade should not be a damage multiplyer to be useable. Kalla stacks should be nerfed further and instead reverted the nerf to mace 3 and torment duration, with a buff to a non-renegade condi damage. This way PvE condi is not restricted to renegade. In addition, it is a buff in open world PvE and spvp dps, 2 areas where condi rev in all forms is lacking.

Kalla’s legacy should change entirely.

@ZeftheWicked.3076 said:~30k damage (and can do some things on the side, like grant barriers, boons, properly cleanse, survive better then most) then i say deal is good and no need to panic.

The thing is, DPS Renegade went from being a generally accepted and even sought after class, to being something that's pretty much only worth taking if you have two weavers in your subgroup and are facing a large hitbox boss.

I agree that ~30k dps is fine for all the content in the game--even without utility--and if Renegade is literally your only character, you can obviously still play it and be fine. But for the majority of raiders, especially DPS mains, you have several--if not every--class leveled and geared, ready to go with a few small changes. The game is certainly built around this with how easy/fast it is to level and obtain (and even share) best in slot gear--which sort of makes it okay for anet to play around with balance changes so much. Personally, I only use my renegade in four boss fights now... Whereas I used to use it in 9-11 depending. And honestly, that's probably going to go down to three next week when I just go weaver for dhuum and either let the chrono's deal with boon stripping, or use the new breaker meme strat.

And to push that further, if you ARE one of those people who only has a Renegade geared, it's going to be a lot harder to find groups if you rely on pugging your clears every week. We can all come together and agree that a 30k benchmark is fine, but it actual practice, people are pretty elitist with their pugged group compositions since there's a surplus of people looking for raids compared to those actually looking for players... It lets them take the players and compositions that they think will give them the greatest chance of success.

So, I guess I'm not panicking, but I am a little disappointed that revenant is already starting to be left by the PvE wayside once again like they were in HoT...

Well guess that means i gotta dust off my one man guild, put some money into it (and i'm expecting a big gold payout soon) and start offmeta raiding, where your necros, revs, and others will get some love ;]