Okay ... Seriously, WvW and PvP content should be split from PvE content

Well the title is self explanatory...

As a necro PvE main I'm SERIOUSLY tired of getting shat on by PvP gamemode balance. My class should be as viable in raids/fractals as every other class is, and splitting PvE from the PvP gamemodes also means you can balance them RIGHT, in a way that would make both the damn experiences fun!

I'm sure this has been whined about before, and I've seen many players say it SHOULD be done, so why not? I mean some skills already have differences, would it really be that hard to just make the gamemodes split entirely?

Pvp has splits from PvE already - Where the devs believe they are needed..

Also this should be in the Necro section.

Its not only about necro, everything should be split, as some things just dont make sence to have "balanced" for PvP, i mean how many people use random builds they just like in PvE, and because they are balanced for PvP they're absolutely horrible.

There are more sides to this problem.

They (ANet) also wants all classes to play similar in all game modes. So that what you learn in PVE (timing of attacks, a general feel of range, what a skill can do etc, what to expect of builds) will translate into WVW/PVP. And also the other way, so that a PVP player can go to PVE and not feel like his build plays entirely different and has to re-learn his own build etc.

In a similar vein, it is also so that as you use a class, and get used to the skills and abilities, you learn their weaknesses, so you can better play against it.

If you divorce PVE entirely from PVP you will end up making people have to learn both separately, and have to relearn to play each one. That is a major dis-service for everyone that plays both modes.

Also, remember that WvW is actually stuck following the PvE mode, not PvP. So if they did this, it would make even larger difference between PvP and WvW that we already got.

I've been hearing this all day from several necro players in our guild.

I don't know if there's more changes around the bend but something seems off to me and maybe a dev can shed more light on it.

But why are they removing player agency in trait choices and changing the design goal of the new shroud mechanic ?It could be just a me thing, but manifest shade shouldn't be all that different than clones/phantasms. You can choose to have 1 with greater benefit taken sand savant, or have better ramping zone control by not taking it. My current understanding is due to the cooldowns the latter is impossible as you can never realistically have 3 out without the aid of other classes (alacrity) and no other class has ever been co-dependent on another to have access to baseline functionality.

@HardRider.2980 said:Pvp has splits from PvE already - Where the devs believe they are needed..

Also this should be in the Necro section.

This applies to much more than just Necro. Many classes are negatively affected by the lack of split balance. Yes, they split where they believe they need to, but that's a very small portion of abilities. As a player that mostly plays PvP/WvW, I can definitely understand where the frustration comes from, as it's often PvE that gets the short end of the stick.

Wvw players have been asking for this since the release of HoT, if not longer.

Never pvp'd in Gw2 and I've played for a couple years now. Stepped into WvW a handful of times. Necro pve was gutted right before launch for game modes that I never use. This while experience feels awful. I was excited to take a day off work, my wife too. Now my hype for PoF has been deflated.

I do have one of each class, so yes I could reroll. I shouldn't have too though. PvE, raiding, and open world are big parts of GW2 and they either need to be separate or meticulously balanced so that each mode is content with balance.

Going to bed and hopefully something unseen will be discovered to remove this disheartening feeling.

By design, some classes are better in PvP (Thief) and some are better at group content (Guardian) and some are better at doing open world PvE (whatever class you like). To demand every class to be equally viable in every gamemode would simply mean removing all classes from the game (or PvP).

Not "equally" in the way that would satisfy the "only the absolute optimum is even viable" types, but I absolutely believe that every class should have good, solid builds in every game mode. Anything else is just laziness and giving up on balance without even trying. When I remember how far WoW evolved in its first five years in terms of build diversity and "bring the player, not the class", it's depressing to look at this game in comparison. And all the classes I played there were distinct anyway, much moreso than they are here. So "everything would be the same" is not true at all.

If the necro is so bad in pve but good in pvp then you gotta think why.I only play pve but can survive general pve quite easily, that ppl demand to remove necro's from raids shows the real problem.They ether need to make skills be stronger in raids or change the raid so necro's are a good choice to take with you

Whats even more annoying is that they for some reason insist on buffing skills for PvP only before they even consider bringing those changes over to PvE... and of course, when/if the changes do make it to PvE they get nerfed heavily because "it was too strong in PvP"

We've already kind of had the "Every class is equally good" in every game mode. That was from the ferocity patch to June 2016. I did carry some pugs through dungeons on my necro - a class I've got absolutely no idea of.The June 2016 patch was when anet lost it and instead of nerfing some of the powercreep they buffed everything (because otherwise PvE players would cry, right) - that led to WvW being a very unpleasant game mode - because if you see all these numbers you're smashing out against a mob imagine to have that damage inflicted on you.Long story short: Balancing all 3 game modes together was possible in the past and should be possible even now, they just don't make the effort to do so.

@joneirikb.7506 said:There are more sides to this problem.

They (ANet) also wants all classes to play similar in all game modes. So that what you learn in PVE (timing of attacks, a general feel of range, what a skill can do etc, what to expect of builds) will translate into WVW/PVP. And also the other way, so that a PVP player can go to PVE and not feel like his build plays entirely different and has to re-learn his own build etc.

In a similar vein, it is also so that as you use a class, and get used to the skills and abilities, you learn their weaknesses, so you can better play against it.

If you divorce PVE entirely from PVP you will end up making people have to learn both separately, and have to relearn to play each one. That is a major dis-service for everyone that plays both modes.

Also, remember that WvW is actually stuck following the PvE mode, not PvP. So if they did this, it would make even larger difference between PvP and WvW that we already got.

@joneirikb.7506 said:There are more sides to this problem.

They (ANet) also wants all classes to play similar in all game modes. So that what you learn in PVE (timing of attacks, a general feel of range, what a skill can do etc, what to expect of builds) will translate into WVW/PVP. And also the other way, so that a PVP player can go to PVE and not feel like his build plays entirely different and has to re-learn his own build etc.

In a similar vein, it is also so that as you use a class, and get used to the skills and abilities, you learn their weaknesses, so you can better play against it.

If you divorce PVE entirely from PVP you will end up making people have to learn both separately, and have to relearn to play each one. That is a major dis-service for everyone that plays both modes.

Also, remember that WvW is actually stuck following the PvE mode, not PvP. So if they did this, it would make even larger difference between PvP and WvW that we already got.

The idea behind that "other side" is nice and good, but practically speaking classes already play completely different in PvP and PvE. The reason is that PvP builds are total crap in PvE and PvE builds lack the survivability for PvP. Among the classes I play there is not a single build I could play in both game modes.

Example: ElementalistElementalists in PvP have to play very tanky. Water traitline is a must-have. The fire traitline on the other hand is pretty useless in PvP.In PvE on the other hand eles play pure damage. Fire traitline is a must-have. The water traitline on the other hand is pretty useless (except for the 10% dmg buff).

Currently every class has some skills, traits and even complete traitlines that shine in one game-mode, but are totally crap in the other two game-modes. As long as skills are not split across game-modes, the split will instead be in the used builds. Which makes the difference in feeling and role of a class a lot bigger than splitting the skills and traits would.

The split is a must. Period. And while they are at it, dont forget to reverse stabilty functionality as it was and always should have been. So I can actually kill stuff instead of being launched, knocked back, feared, kocked down, crippled, pushed, pulled, stunned I could actually kill stuff. (No, bringing a stunbreak is not really an option when you have 2 breaks and everyone ellse and their mothers have 1341534562432645 stun/cc/etc.)

(reply to some other parts of convo)I CAN edit play the same build in PvP and PvE, because well its a good general burst/upkeep condi build, and im relatively good with it, and it's good for 1v1s that don't have a lot of immobilise, but when immobilise comes into play, i HAVE TO use my heal, i'm forced to do it, and if they have 2 immobilises im fucked, because my plague sending is active with me using corruption and sending shit to the enemy as much as i can.

(start of post)As a necro, why am i not allowed to have the damn DPS a lot of the other classes have? What? Just because the damn shroud? And now that's gone I'm not even allowed to do anything with the new one?

Also have you seen just HOW MANY minionmancers there are in open world, and because minnions would be "op" and are "passive dmg" they have been made into a literal pile of shit, with which you can do basically nothing.

And what's the with the idea of WvW = PvE??? ANET WTF ARE U DOING? Some of the balance decisions about this game are just retarded.

Revenant is allowed to rape someone in literally one second in PvP, oh no, that's fine, but Necro can kill someone in 10 if they literally dont move? NERF IT TO THE GROUD!

Seriously, my poor little scourge is gonna go and build some sand castles with her sand shade friends on the beach, and then ANET will stroll along, shoot the shades with a few NERF darts, and jump on her sand castle to make her cry her already nerfed self to sleep :c

Edit: Also the split would HELP with the damn PvP balance i mean... seriously, how many OP builds are there, and then there are builds that are completely unviable, THIS WOULD FIX SO MUCH ;_;