Why so few engineers? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Why so few engineers?

Is it because it's complicated? Elementalists are complicated but there's way more of those. Is it the theme? I can kind of see people wanting more of a magically themed class in this kind of game, but at the same time there are plenty of warriors and thieves. Is it because they are difficult to play? Once again I think ele is also very difficult to play and I see a lot of those. I'm curious what's causes so few people to play them.

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Comments

  • Echoherb.6528Echoherb.6528 Member ✭✭✭

    @Lunateric.3708 said:
    It is complicated if you want to be optimal and want to squeeze out the juice out of every little interaction you have but overall you'll find engis that don't do that, despise complexity and do sub-optimal builds for the sake of simplicity.

    I think it's more of a theme thing since it doesn't fill the typical fantasy niche that appeals to most people.

    Yeah I'm thinking it would be more of a theme thing, because even if what you said about it being complicated were true, you'd still see more at lower levels or in world pve. Most people aren't trying to squeeze out the juice out of every little interaction, they are just casually playing the game.

  • Echoherb.6528Echoherb.6528 Member ✭✭✭

    @Vagrant.7206 said:

    @Echoherb.6528 said:
    Is it because it's complicated? Elementalists are complicated but there's way more of those. Is it the theme? I can kind of see people wanting more of a magically themed class in this kind of game, but at the same time there are plenty of warriors and thieves. Is it because they are difficult to play? Once again I think ele is also very difficult to play and I see a lot of those. I'm curious what's causes so few people to play them.

    Several reasons:

    • Unintuitive design

      • By that I mean that primary weapons are weak, most of your real damage is in your kits, or PF.
    • Aesthetically different from other classes (tech instead of magic)

    • The interesting skills and traits are objectively worse than the boring ones.
    • Except for PF, not a very flashy class.
    • Takes more effort to get the same result other classes get
    • Lack of effort from ANet devs to keep the class up to date. Lots of traits and skills have languished for years with no real change.

    Makes sense, especially the part about interesting skills being worse and it not being a flashy class (no clue what "PF" is). Although I still see more warriors and thiefs and those aren't very flashy classes either.

  • Vagrant.7206Vagrant.7206 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Echoherb.6528 said:

    @Vagrant.7206 said:

    @Echoherb.6528 said:
    Is it because it's complicated? Elementalists are complicated but there's way more of those. Is it the theme? I can kind of see people wanting more of a magically themed class in this kind of game, but at the same time there are plenty of warriors and thieves. Is it because they are difficult to play? Once again I think ele is also very difficult to play and I see a lot of those. I'm curious what's causes so few people to play them.

    Several reasons:

    • Unintuitive design

      • By that I mean that primary weapons are weak, most of your real damage is in your kits, or PF.
    • Aesthetically different from other classes (tech instead of magic)

    • The interesting skills and traits are objectively worse than the boring ones.
    • Except for PF, not a very flashy class.
    • Takes more effort to get the same result other classes get
    • Lack of effort from ANet devs to keep the class up to date. Lots of traits and skills have languished for years with no real change.

    Makes sense, especially the part about interesting skills being worse and it not being a flashy class (no clue what "PF" is). Although I still see more warriors and thiefs and those aren't very flashy classes either.

    PF is photon forge.

    And yes, but warrior and thief both have visually unique methods of standing out. Engineer is the least visually distinct class (explosions are probably the flashiest things besides photon forge).

    The great god Lagki demands sacrifice!

  • @Vagrant.7206 said:

    @Echoherb.6528 said:

    @Vagrant.7206 said:

    @Echoherb.6528 said:
    Is it because it's complicated? Elementalists are complicated but there's way more of those. Is it the theme? I can kind of see people wanting more of a magically themed class in this kind of game, but at the same time there are plenty of warriors and thieves. Is it because they are difficult to play? Once again I think ele is also very difficult to play and I see a lot of those. I'm curious what's causes so few people to play them.

    Several reasons:

    • Unintuitive design

      • By that I mean that primary weapons are weak, most of your real damage is in your kits, or PF.
    • Aesthetically different from other classes (tech instead of magic)

    • The interesting skills and traits are objectively worse than the boring ones.
    • Except for PF, not a very flashy class.
    • Takes more effort to get the same result other classes get
    • Lack of effort from ANet devs to keep the class up to date. Lots of traits and skills have languished for years with no real change.

    Makes sense, especially the part about interesting skills being worse and it not being a flashy class (no clue what "PF" is). Although I still see more warriors and thiefs and those aren't very flashy classes either.

    PF is photon forge.

    And yes, but warrior and thief both have visually unique methods of standing out. Engineer is the least visually distinct class (explosions are probably the flashiest things besides photon forge).

    I wasn't around for that but I believe it wasn't the case always, think I read somewhere explosive effects from grenades and orbital strike got toned down a ton

  • why play engineer in PvE when there are better and easyer dps for both condi and power? Don't reply me to go watch a dps benchmark on youtube ,it's useless,another class can do nearly the same dps with lower effort AND providing way more support.

    Why play engineer in WvW ? Well for roaming it should still work pretty well , small scale fights too .....but forget the massive big fights , there are only 4 classes welcome in squads for WvW : scourge , firebrand , weaver , heralds .Now there is this warrior bouble mechanic that may throw warriors into the action sometimes , but aside from this classes , the rest is junk because they are inadeguate for both damage and support in big scale fights , and squads will instakick you.
    Boon conversion engineer?Just an optimistic engineer feature , that doesn't work with the actual WvW main mechanics : boon corruption .The more you convert condis into boons,the more enemy scrouge will corrupt your boons into condis.Basically you would be a scourge dream.

    Why play engineer in PvP : like small WvW roaming , engineer can work there too.

    Engineer was the hardest class to play some time after realease , but now,it's not anymore the hardest one ,from long time already . <
    Every class has now the f1-f5 ability , is not somothing unique anymore , plus , engineer was the hardest class also for the very disconnected traits that got 0 sinergy for long time ,but were still able to be usefull if well played with gppd timings.
    Now we have some trait sinergy , but the whole picture is just underperforming compared to something else.

    Don't get me wrong ,the class is good , bit is for a small niche of players .

    You must like the theme first of all , and you must be ready to get pushed out form PvE raids and from WvW squads because peoples prefer something that performs better than us .

    All of the above are mine opinions after i played this class since the release of this game .

    I'm starting to play herald only from 1 week,and only because i'm mainly a WvW player and i'm tired of get kicked out of squads , sometimes i like to play with other peoples too.... after years of FORCED solo WVW playing now.... and i get tons more bags , i do tons more damage(no more projectile reflections that can stop my dps..yeaaaah..) , i get way more support sitting in squads (condi removal and guardians healing that are priorytized for party/squad memebers) ,etc. etc.

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I like engi after several years i finally gave it an honest weekend of play time (never had before) and I had to dumb it down for myself just to make it bearable. I had to us elixers for half of my utility just because it makes it more simple to play. Started with core condi bomb and worked my way up to power holo both of which were pretty fun although holo is much simpler to play its enjoyable being able to go into holo mode for an instant power boost.

  • Engineer is rusty,outdated, under-powered, underdeveloped, unloved, and underappreciated and inundated with inconsistencies. "That was a mouthful"
    Kits are weak, and weapon dps ie. rifle/pistol is a joke. Pfft i'd expect even a 300% damage increase wouldn't do much, Mortar is a runner up for joke of the year, merely someone to annoy people in WvW "and kill afk'rs" The "new" condi cleansing spec is so pathetically weak in the dps department "it uses pistol/shield" that it is a total waste of time the programmers spent in restructuring it. Most of the "good" engineers in Wvw are what I think are called "Kitten Scripters" aka hackers who 'borrow" the code, so not technically a hacker just someone who knows who to copy/paste from.
    The future of the engineer looks bleak, we got a dps lightbright spec, but it's cost/reward in the dps department isn't worth much if anything. it's a "oh that looks fun I'll try that out, and then have to go to a different class to actually do stuff unless in a futile sense of pity they allow you to play an engineer.

  • ZeftheWicked.3076ZeftheWicked.3076 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Well the biggest issue imho is that ele offers something for it's complexity - biggest dps of all professions as well as strong healer/support builds.
    Engi despite it's complexity seems to be running with rest of the pack in terms of dps and his support game for party is clearly weaker.

    So bottom line - less bang for your buck, at least in PvE.

  • Threather.9354Threather.9354 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 22, 2018

    Its basically a melee DPS class with some utility. Obviously Ele as ranged is more preferred.

    There exactly isnt lot of weapon choices either .... Lot of the kits are so undertuned for the elite specs.

    Its fun for solo easy content but when you wanna solo harder content, you rather take something that can deal damage while tanking like guardian, rev or warrior, Or run away and deal bunch of damage from far away.

    Ri Ba - WvW Commander/hard carry
    Making Desolation great again/Alt somewhere
    Diamond Legend

  • Carighan.6758Carighan.6758 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Frankly, kit-swapping is annoying as a game-mechanic.

    It's basically conceding that your limited 10-slot hot bar doesn't work, but instead of actually fixing it by giving your players 5-10 extra slots, you make them swap between multiple sets of them without showing them the off-cooldowns.

    This is... bearable... for a single weapon. Add a bunch of kits to a class which already has more slots via toolbelt, and I keep wondering why I have 50 weak skills instead of 10 strong ones if the game is designed around a 10-slot hot bar.

    Engineer could be a great class. In another game.

  • Ghos.1326Ghos.1326 Member ✭✭✭

    i think not many engineers around because they aren't as strong as other professions. They were supposed to kind of be the jack of all trades profession, but they don't really fulfill that title since only few builds actually work on an engineer. maybe even less than few. Scrapper just got a nice little buff, and some traits reworked/changed, but after the recent changes, it can no longer play every role at once to an acceptable level, like other professions can. Which is a design flaw for other professions' builds and traits, that needs to be fixed. no profession should be able to do more than one thing GREAT/meta level (i.e. burst damage, tanking, sustained damage, etc). But as it stands, the meta builds can currently perform more than one, or all roles, to a meta level, blurring the lines of what a role should be. Engi is most balanced currently, and that's why it does not shine much, because you can't overperform in more than one role at a time anymore.

    The greatest enemy to improvement, is ignorance. But the desire to learn will cast ignorance into the fire.

  • I see so many of em in WvW though...

  • Vagrant.7206Vagrant.7206 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @TwiceDead.1963 said:
    I see so many of em in WvW though...

    Doing what exactly?

    The great god Lagki demands sacrifice!

  • TwiceDead.1963TwiceDead.1963 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 22, 2018

    @Vagrant.7206 said:

    @TwiceDead.1963 said:
    I see so many of em in WvW though...

    Doing what exactly?

    Mostly roaming in small groups, although I see a lot of em in zergs as well. Can't speak for their effectiveness in zergs, but small-scale they can be pretty kitten ferocious. Mostly Holo's though, don't see many core builds or scrappers... If any Scrappers at all.

  • Played one for years - The issue is the prime - you just end up to squishy unless you have the keyboard skills of a jedi to run the kit properly. I still like them but jeez I feel like Im headbutting a walljust to make this character advance

  • mauried.5608mauried.5608 Member ✭✭✭

    Its sad that in this game everyone seems so fixated on maximum dps, kill monsters as quick as possible, and get as many rewards as possible in the least possible time, that the concept of playing the game just for fun is totally lost.
    Which is why I play Engineers because they are fun.

  • Vagrant.7206Vagrant.7206 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @mauried.5608 said:
    Its sad that in this game everyone seems so fixated on maximum dps, kill monsters as quick as possible, and get as many rewards as possible in the least possible time, that the concept of playing the game just for fun is totally lost.
    Which is why I play Engineers because they are fun.

    It's not particularly fun for engineer when your build isn't optimized. Leveling can be really slow going.

    The great god Lagki demands sacrifice!

  • The engie needed a redesign more than the mesmer.

  • Vagrant.7206Vagrant.7206 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @mauried.5608 said:
    Ive never bothered with any kind of optimization nor do I worry about the speed of levelling as the entire purpose of playing the game is simply to consume my time in an enjoyable way.
    Why does the game have to be played in the fastest possible way?

    It doesn't. But for most people it makes the game boring to have fights more grindy.

    The great god Lagki demands sacrifice!

  • Vagrant.7206Vagrant.7206 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 23, 2018

    @Nirvana.8659 said:
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/29690/pvp-wvw-skill-split-release/p1

    take this reason why so few peoples play the engineer as an example :

    -reduce damage between 40-15% on 3 skills of the Holosmith , the only semi-viable dps spec we have at moment
    -Increase the damage of the mortar skills of 40% more or less , a very slow kit usefull more for teh combos tahn for his actual hit capacity (in WvW your hits will get reflected a lot in zerg fights , and when i say a lot i mean 60-70% of the times with all the reflection/projectile destruction skills going on there)
    -Some reduced CD from pistol skills , things we were asking from years for the no-sense (look at pistol 5...come on) , but now totally useless since our conditions are nothing compared to other classes (even ranger and theives can now apply a more efficient condi BURST in pvp and WvW compared to us.

    This would be fine to promote the skill/build diversity , too bad aside from holosmith we can just go play a failed tank with not even enough self sustain for WvW roaming , or we can go play a core class with....ehm nothing?!

    Now , with the "small" dps increase on theif....basically untouched insane self sustain/hight DPS druid build that is becoming more and more out of control , untouched mesmers redicously easy-mode oneshot build going on at moment , tell me if it's easyer understand why so few peoples play engineer.
    The balance team is completely disconnected from the class , i think they make balance based on the roaming videos they see on youtube : so if a decent engineer makes a video going around stomping complete noobs that are walking clueless in WvW...they nerf engineer :D .

    My opinions...just my opinions...calm down (to the engy white knights out there ).

    It's pretty apparent to me that ArenaNet's balance team doesn't have anybody who mains engineer on it. I made some suggestions to hopefully temper the nerfs with buffs elsewhere. I hope they actually listen to my suggestions.

    The great god Lagki demands sacrifice!

  • @Slyven.8637 said:
    "That was a mouthful"

    That's an understatement. You're also forgetting about all these core nerfs over the past few months. There used to be that skill that gave Swiftness on Crit, which synergized nicely with Pack runes, as well as Vigor from Swiftness. Well RIP that. Experiments that make the class interesting keep getting sapped away.

  • Echoherb.6528Echoherb.6528 Member ✭✭✭

    @Jaruselka.5943 said:
    Cause everyone knows Anet actively hates the class and regrets putting it in the game. They should just delete it and use Reinhardt from OW...better implementation anyway.

    What does Reinhardt do? I don't play OW

  • Rezzet.3614Rezzet.3614 Member ✭✭✭

    @Vagrant.7206 said:

    @Echoherb.6528 said:
    Is it because it's complicated? Elementalists are complicated but there's way more of those. Is it the theme? I can kind of see people wanting more of a magically themed class in this kind of game, but at the same time there are plenty of warriors and thieves. Is it because they are difficult to play? Once again I think ele is also very difficult to play and I see a lot of those. I'm curious what's causes so few people to play them.

    Several reasons:

    • Unintuitive design

      • By that I mean that primary weapons are weak, most of your real damage is in your kits, or PF.
    • Aesthetically different from other classes (tech instead of magic)

    • The interesting skills and traits are objectively worse than the boring ones.
    • Except for PF, not a very flashy class.
    • Takes more effort to get the same result other classes get
    • Lack of effort from ANet devs to keep the class up to date. Lots of traits and skills have languished for years with no real change.

    constant unnecesary nerfs too

  • Ghos.1326Ghos.1326 Member ✭✭✭

    @coglin.1496 said:

    @santenal.1054 said:
    Looking at med kit's #2-5 skills.

    Okay. You win. The med kit point is too strong for me to dsagree with.

    yeah medkit in competitive is just so horrible. Not even sure it could last in pve, though I did not test it yet, and will be soon.

    The greatest enemy to improvement, is ignorance. But the desire to learn will cast ignorance into the fire.

  • TheWolf.1602TheWolf.1602 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 20, 2018

    play style of the medkit is awesome, but the scaling with healing power and duration of boons is just bad... and then there is health Insurance... :(

    PS: why doesn't recovery matrix work with med kit?

  • InsaneQR.7412InsaneQR.7412 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Such technology.
    Less aesthetic.

    Maybe thats also an aspect why ppl dont want to play engi in a fantasy game.
    Also it has very few weapons and many cant cope with kits.

  • InsaneQR.7412InsaneQR.7412 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:
    The engie needed a redesign more than the mesmer.

    Every class actually needs a second look to update core to the current state of the game, some just less than others.

  • Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 22, 2018

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:
    The engie needed a redesign more than the mesmer.

    Every class actually needs a second look to update core to the current state of the game, some just less than others.

    True... but Engie would honestly be the first thing I'd touch. I am mostly a thief main mind you. So this isn't me being bias. But when I tried playing the Engine up to level 60 if I remember correctly... I just couldn't figure out what the hell I was doing. I'm not saying it's too complicated. To me that'd be the charm of the Engie if you can figure him out, and actually get rewarded greatly for it. It's just not intuitive.

  • Echoherb.6528Echoherb.6528 Member ✭✭✭

    @Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:
    The engie needed a redesign more than the mesmer.

    Every class actually needs a second look to update core to the current state of the game, some just less than others.

    True... but Engie would honestly be the first thing I'd touch. I am mostly a thief main mind you. So this isn't me being bias. But when I tried playing the Engine up to level 60 if I remember correctly... I just couldn't figure out what the hell I was doing. I'm not saying it's too complicated. To me that'd be the charm of the Engie if you can figure him out, and actually get rewarded greatly for it. It's just not intuitive.

    You juggle a ton of skills between different kits and the toolbelt, or you could just equip flamethrower and autoattack for the same amount of damage. Do that for 80 levels and finally you can play holosmith and pretend you aren't playing engi anymore.

  • i just dont like the majority of the style of the engi. I want to like it because these classes are usually cool, but i just think its flavor of technology based class is sorta weak. The guns are weak and seem to be like they're from the goonies or inspector gadget. Turrets don't look that cool. The kit emphasis means that in a lot of builds you wont see your cool legendary weapons. I hate the word 'gadgets' and the toolbelt mechanic is barely a mechanic and more like they couldn't think of anything else. The core elite skills are pretty lame, the supply crate is cool though. I like the theme of the elite specs but, I have to like the core profession to be able to stick with a class.

  • @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @mauried.5608 said:
    Its sad that in this game everyone seems so fixated on maximum dps, kill monsters as quick as possible, and get as many rewards as possible in the least possible time, that the concept of playing the game just for fun is totally lost.
    Which is why I play Engineers because they are fun.

    Years ago many players tried to warn the community about the cancer of raids...we were not listened

    Don't let the GW2 Reddit hear you say that. You will get down voted into oblivion and flamed.

  • MrForz.1953MrForz.1953 Member ✭✭✭

    @Arheundel.6451 said:
    Years ago many players tried to warn the community about the cancer of raids...we were not listened

    I have indeed dreaded the day we'd simply become mere numbers to apply into different stages of a fight.

    Disgruntled Charr Engineer and Pirate - Jade Quarry

  • Aetatis.5418Aetatis.5418 Member ✭✭✭

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @mauried.5608 said:
    Its sad that in this game everyone seems so fixated on maximum dps, kill monsters as quick as possible, and get as many rewards as possible in the least possible time, that the concept of playing the game just for fun is totally lost.
    Which is why I play Engineers because they are fun.

    Years ago many players tried to warn the community about the cancer of raids...we were not listened

    raids did not make the game worse. dps meter maybe did a thing, because you can visually minmax situations now by dps, not just by time - hence "ban" professions from encounters.
    does nobody recall the days of fiery greatsword? x ele + something that stacks might ... or more specifically the dungeon "meta" (the meaning of that abrevation: most effective tactic available) before raids existed? it was as cancerous and toxic as it is today.

    (to keep it a bit on topic... engineers were never part of any of those metas. if you had an engineer somewhere the profession was a toolkit for fire fields, smoke fields an blasts. all of which could be done (better) by a thief - except fire fields.)

  • Warlyx.6732Warlyx.6732 Member ✭✭
    edited March 27, 2018

    the theme could have been amazing but alas it failed

    lack of weapons : because we have tons of other options , granades , flamethrower , ect

    having to juggle multiple cooldowns that u cant even see.

    if Engineer is all about tech why dont create something cool and awesome , hell look at asura , always creating cool things that made u go woahh, but engin cant have that because?

    not flashy enough , when u have proffs like Ele , Mesmer , guardian that are all about cool effects , ice , lightning , buttlerflies , blue fire , tomes , hell even warrior the most "simple" class ever , smash / crush / slash things around and looks kitten .

    There is no point in playing Eng , when u can play something more fun and rewarding.

    there has been games that added Engineers and were tons of fun (Warhammer engineer , Dragon nest (tinkerer - gear master or alchemist both tons of fun) , and maybe even FFXIV machinist)

  • Despond.2174Despond.2174 Member ✭✭✭

    Huh? They are everywhere. Holosmith revitalized this profession tremendously - and made it a lot more accessible.

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