Why so few engineers? - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Why so few engineers?

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  • I've seen even fewer revenants

  • Thematically weak, not many good builds, no clear design direction, elite specializations are all boring.

  • Lunateric.3708Lunateric.3708 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 16, 2018

    @Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @mauried.5608 said:
    Its sad that in this game everyone seems so fixated on maximum dps, kill monsters as quick as possible, and get as many rewards as possible in the least possible time, that the concept of playing the game just for fun is totally lost.
    Which is why I play Engineers because they are fun.

    Years ago many players tried to warn the community about the cancer of raids...we were not listened

    Don't let the GW2 Reddit hear you say that. You will get down voted into oblivion and flamed.

    If there was a downvote button here I'd downvote him anyway not because of his opinion but because of the fundamentally wrong perception raids did anything to the game that wasn't already there. People used to kick necros and rangers on sight when dungeons were the "endgame" and ask for X amounts of AP.

    People will always seek to optimize their time on any game. Time is a finite thing, you know?

  • Frostmane.9734Frostmane.9734 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 17, 2018

    @Lunateric.3708 said:

    @Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @mauried.5608 said:
    Its sad that in this game everyone seems so fixated on maximum dps, kill monsters as quick as possible, and get as many rewards as possible in the least possible time, that the concept of playing the game just for fun is totally lost.
    Which is why I play Engineers because they are fun.

    Years ago many players tried to warn the community about the cancer of raids...we were not listened

    Don't let the GW2 Reddit hear you say that. You will get down voted into oblivion and flamed.

    If there was a downvote button here I'd downvote him anyway not because of his opinion but because of the fundamentally wrong perception raids did anything to the game that wasn't already there. People used to kick necros and rangers on sight when dungeons were the "endgame" and ask for X amounts of AP.

    People will always seek to optimize their time on any game. Time is a finite thing, you know?

    Spot on.

    I've played the game on and off since beta and have leveled guardian, necro, and ele to 80 in core before trying the engineer. Since trying the engineer, I've barely touched the other three. Maybe I like the high activity level, but everything else just bores me now.

    Core engineer can still do very well in small scale pvp. You have enough cc with rifle, battering ram, moa, throw wrench, and magnet to juggle people and plenty of disengage with gear shield, 2x shrink (if traited), and stealth. In PvE, I'm not having any problems playing scrapper right now but I admit I'm not raiding.

    IMO, there is only three things that need to be fixed.
    1) take away the randomness associated with elixers. People want their character to perform how they tell it to and having an unpredictable mechanic doesn't satisfy that. The mechanic seemed fun themacticly but doesn't translate to gameplay well.
    2) Improved trait synergy. There are too many traits that add discrete attributes and not enough that stack well with others. If the whole is supposed to be better than the sum of its parts, the parts need to work together. The revamped firearms line was a good attempt and this, but that's just one line.
    3) Buff turrets. Give them more health, more damage, make them apply boons in an area, and let them be mobile. Im not sure why a turret build cant be on the same level as a necro summoning build.

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lunateric.3708 said:

    @Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @mauried.5608 said:
    Its sad that in this game everyone seems so fixated on maximum dps, kill monsters as quick as possible, and get as many rewards as possible in the least possible time, that the concept of playing the game just for fun is totally lost.
    Which is why I play Engineers because they are fun.

    Years ago many players tried to warn the community about the cancer of raids...we were not listened

    Don't let the GW2 Reddit hear you say that. You will get down voted into oblivion and flamed.

    If there was a downvote button here I'd downvote him anyway not because of his opinion but because of the fundamentally wrong perception raids did anything to the game that wasn't already there. People used to kick necros and rangers on sight when dungeons were the "endgame" and ask for X amounts of AP.

    People will always seek to optimize their time on any game. Time is a finite thing, you know?

    ...why add time constraints to game content available 24/7 all year long? There is no logical explanation.....

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • @Frostmane.9734 said:

    @Lunateric.3708 said:

    @Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @mauried.5608 said:
    Its sad that in this game everyone seems so fixated on maximum dps, kill monsters as quick as possible, and get as many rewards as possible in the least possible time, that the concept of playing the game just for fun is totally lost.
    Which is why I play Engineers because they are fun.

    Years ago many players tried to warn the community about the cancer of raids...we were not listened

    Don't let the GW2 Reddit hear you say that. You will get down voted into oblivion and flamed.

    If there was a downvote button here I'd downvote him anyway not because of his opinion but because of the fundamentally wrong perception raids did anything to the game that wasn't already there. People used to kick necros and rangers on sight when dungeons were the "endgame" and ask for X amounts of AP.

    People will always seek to optimize their time on any game. Time is a finite thing, you know?

    Spot on.

    I've played the game on and off since beta and have leveled guardian, necro, and ele to 80 in core before trying the engineer. Since trying the engineer, I've barely touched the other three. Maybe I like the high activity level, but everything else just bores me now.

    Core engineer can still do very well in small scale pvp. You have enough cc with rifle, battering ram, moa, throw wrench, and magnet to juggle people and plenty of disengage with gear shield, 2x shrink (if traited), and stealth. In PvE, I'm not having any problems playing scrapper right now but I admit I'm not raiding.

    IMO, there is only three things that need to be fixed.
    1) take away the randomness associated with elixers. People want their character to perform how they tell it to and having an unpredictable mechanic doesn't satisfy that. The mechanic seemed fun themacticly but doesn't translate to gameplay well.
    2) Improved trait synergy. There are too many traits that add discrete attributes and not enough that stack well with others. If the whole is supposed to be better than the sum of its parts, the parts need to work together. The revamped firearms line was a good attempt and this, but that's just one line.
    3) Buff turrets. Give them more health, more damage, make them apply boons in an area, and let them be mobile. Im not sure why a turret build cant be on the same level as a necro summoning build.

    Make his skills synergize real well with each other in a combo field like manner. Engie is supposed to be an Engineer. Let him engineer some posterior destruction.

  • Lunateric.3708Lunateric.3708 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Lunateric.3708 said:

    @Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @mauried.5608 said:
    Its sad that in this game everyone seems so fixated on maximum dps, kill monsters as quick as possible, and get as many rewards as possible in the least possible time, that the concept of playing the game just for fun is totally lost.
    Which is why I play Engineers because they are fun.

    Years ago many players tried to warn the community about the cancer of raids...we were not listened

    Don't let the GW2 Reddit hear you say that. You will get down voted into oblivion and flamed.

    If there was a downvote button here I'd downvote him anyway not because of his opinion but because of the fundamentally wrong perception raids did anything to the game that wasn't already there. People used to kick necros and rangers on sight when dungeons were the "endgame" and ask for X amounts of AP.

    People will always seek to optimize their time on any game. Time is a finite thing, you know?

    ...why add time constraints to game content available 24/7 all year long? There is no logical explanation.....

    there's a very logical, simple explanation most adults will give you in a heartbeat: you die eventually so you try to make the most out of the time you get, specially when you do more than gaming.

  • Ardid.7203Ardid.7203 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lunateric.3708 said:

    @Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @mauried.5608 said:
    Its sad that in this game everyone seems so fixated on maximum dps, kill monsters as quick as possible, and get as many rewards as possible in the least possible time, that the concept of playing the game just for fun is totally lost.
    Which is why I play Engineers because they are fun.

    Years ago many players tried to warn the community about the cancer of raids...we were not listened

    Don't let the GW2 Reddit hear you say that. You will get down voted into oblivion and flamed.

    If there was a downvote button here I'd downvote him anyway not because of his opinion but because of the fundamentally wrong perception raids did anything to the game that wasn't already there. People used to kick necros and rangers on sight when dungeons were the "endgame" and ask for X amounts of AP.

    People will always seek to optimize their time on any game. Time is a finite thing, you know?

    Raids gave validity and a relevant place to shine for the Meta mentality. Elitist toxicity in dungeons was an occasional annoyance, elitist toxicity in raids is the basic policy. Raids didn't add anything, they just feed it and made it bigger and ravenous.

  • Lunateric.3708Lunateric.3708 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ardid.7203 said:

    @Lunateric.3708 said:

    @Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @mauried.5608 said:
    Its sad that in this game everyone seems so fixated on maximum dps, kill monsters as quick as possible, and get as many rewards as possible in the least possible time, that the concept of playing the game just for fun is totally lost.
    Which is why I play Engineers because they are fun.

    Years ago many players tried to warn the community about the cancer of raids...we were not listened

    Don't let the GW2 Reddit hear you say that. You will get down voted into oblivion and flamed.

    If there was a downvote button here I'd downvote him anyway not because of his opinion but because of the fundamentally wrong perception raids did anything to the game that wasn't already there. People used to kick necros and rangers on sight when dungeons were the "endgame" and ask for X amounts of AP.

    People will always seek to optimize their time on any game. Time is a finite thing, you know?

    elitist toxicity in raids is the basic policy

    [citation needed]

    I am near 1k LIs and most of them have been puging in the LFG, not gonna lie and say I haven't found "toxic elitist" groups but they are incredibly far from being common enough to become the basic policy.

    You do you, though.

  • Ardid.7203Ardid.7203 Member ✭✭✭✭

    We discuss meta all day. It multiplies around forums and most people see it as a necessity. Even in friendly groups it is recommended to use meta builds to avoid problems with other people, or to keep the group "viable". Taking time to punch the golem has become a perceived requisite to go into raids.

    Even if someone never witneses any toxicity in raids (hard to believe, but possible, I think), the basic attitude around raids is to respect meta to avoid toxicity. It controls behaviour, it defines what is right and wrong. It is policy.

  • Faolon.9702Faolon.9702 Member ✭✭

    @Echoherb.6528 said:

    @Jaruselka.5943 said:
    Cause everyone knows Anet actively hates the class and regrets putting it in the game. They should just delete it and use Reinhardt from OW...better implementation anyway.

    What does Reinhardt do? I don't play OW

    Reinhardt is a tank in that game.

    He carries a huge hammer, and can use a shield. He can't swing the hammer while having the shield up. And he has a charging ability.
    You can see them here:

  • Jaruselka.5943Jaruselka.5943 Member ✭✭✭

    @Faolon.9702 said:

    @Echoherb.6528 said:

    @Jaruselka.5943 said:
    Cause everyone knows Anet actively hates the class and regrets putting it in the game. They should just delete it and use Reinhardt from OW...better implementation anyway.

    What does Reinhardt do? I don't play OW

    Reinhardt is a tank in that game.

    He carries a huge hammer, and can use a shield. He can't swing the hammer while having the shield up. And he has a charging ability.
    You can see them here:

    I got an infraction for that comment. :)

  • mauried.5608mauried.5608 Member ✭✭✭

    The obvious question here is why are any of you playing Engineers if they are so terrible?

  • @mauried.5608 said:
    The obvious question here is why are any of you playing Engineers if they are so terrible?

    Masochists. Seriously though because it's fun.

  • Aetatis.5418Aetatis.5418 Member ✭✭✭

    @Kaibhan.4216 said:

    @mauried.5608 said:
    The obvious question here is why are any of you playing Engineers if they are so terrible?

    Masochists. Seriously though because it's fun.

    what s/he said

  • Jaruselka.5943Jaruselka.5943 Member ✭✭✭

    @mauried.5608 said:
    The obvious question here is why are any of you playing Engineers if they are so terrible?

    Self loathing...

  • Curennos.9307Curennos.9307 Member ✭✭✭

    My engineer feels very, very strong...When there's time to actually do stuff. Most of the game (that isn't 'casual' anyhow, like ranked pvp and whatnot) suffers from ridiculous amounts of power creep or whatever you'd like to call it. Being able to chain leaps/blast finishers into fields (which engi has a lot of and I love the options/combinations!) is just...well, those bonuses are flat numbers that haven't scaled with the creep, nor have the animations themselves sped up. The times when leaping a water field (sword 3, f1 using heal turret for example) are rare because the heal quite often just..isn't enough. I can take -so- much more damage in the time it takes me to do those actions. The defense doesn't scale.

    Being able to use mortar kit and doing something with its fields to cleanse condis, and building around that condi cleanse so you can get something elsewhere you would originally have dedicated to getting some cleanse....doesn't work anymore, cuz nowadays the condis you're trying to cleanse will have killed you by the time you can do anything with the field.

    Everything that doesn't scale in this game should be looked at. Health pools (to my knowledge they haven't changed since launch - except may like ,guard HP or something? I forget). Combo fields/finisher effects, kits, etc.

    Aaaand that's why so few engis. We have a lot of stuff! Just a whoooole lotta work to actually get anywhere in the more competitive settings. I do enjoy it in open world tho.

  • Zappix.7928Zappix.7928 Member ✭✭

    This video should answer all your questions. =);)

  • Llethander.3972Llethander.3972 Member ✭✭✭

    Engi was the class I wanted to play most when GW2 launched, and I did. What interested me the most was the turrets. They were alright; not amazing but not terrible. Then the turret nerf happened... and they never recovered. That, paired with the cancer that is Kits - ie. playing Flight of the Bumblebee on your keyboard () - with their ridiculous APM (actions per minute) requirement to eke out the same DPS as other classes do one-handed, really killed my interest in playing one. Don't get me wrong, I love the concept of the Engineer; it's interesting from a thematic standpoint. I just don't find it fun to play.

    Perhaps if kits weren't a requirement for entry into high level Fractals/Raiding I would feel more inclined to play one. Unfortunately, without kits the Engi just doesn't do any damage.

  • SunTzu.4513SunTzu.4513 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 24, 2018

    Don't get me wrong, I love the concept of the Engineer; it's interesting from a thematic standpoint. I just don't find it fun to play.

    Thats my point of view too. I'm normaly total in for steampunk or tech based classes. But the whole kit swapping thing gets pretty fast anoying. Also the turrets are really useless. Scrappers gyros arent as cool as they could. Holo is okayish, feels a bit uninspired by the design and cant get me back to the engi. Even the rifle and pistol skills just feels plain and boring.

  • mauried.5608mauried.5608 Member ✭✭✭

    The Engineer would be OK if it wasnt for the mindset of most of the players in the game who think that playing the game means
    killing everything in sight as quickly as possible, getting the reward again as quickly as possible, and then repeating.
    Any class that cant kill things instantly = useless.
    I often wonder if people ever even look at the scenery or ever walk anywhere.
    Mounts have made the problem even worse, as you now often see players jumping on their mounts to get to the next bad guy that has to be killed so that they get there
    a second faster than if they simply ran.

  • Leodon.1564Leodon.1564 Member ✭✭

    From the beginning, Engineer has remained my least favorite class cause I just don't like immobile turrets. I've heard Holosmith plays differently so my interest in the class has been piqued.

  • Ardid.7203Ardid.7203 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 3, 2018

    @Leodon.1564 said:
    From the beginning, Engineer has remained my least favorite class cause I just don't like immobile turrets. I've heard Holosmith plays differently so my interest in the class has been piqued.

    You know almost no engie build uses turrets (except healing turret, which is insta-blasted anyway), right?
    Scrapper doesn't use turrets, Core doesn't use turrets, Holo doesnt use turrets... The few static discharge builds that use rifle turret don't actually use the turret itself, only the Toolbelt Skill. Basically the only engies that play with immobile turrets are the AFK farmers...

  • Leodon.1564Leodon.1564 Member ✭✭
    edited May 3, 2018

    @Ardid.7203 said:

    @Leodon.1564 said:
    From the beginning, Engineer has remained my least favorite class cause I just don't like immobile turrets. I've heard Holosmith plays differently so my interest in the class has been piqued.

    You know almost no engie build uses turrets (except healing turret, which is insta-blasted anyway), right?
    Scrapper doesn't use turrets, Core doesn't use turrets, Holo doesnt use turrets... The few static discharge builds that use rifle turret don't actually use the turret itself, only the Toolbelt Skill. Basically the only engies that play with immobile turrets are the AFK farmers...

    Well Engies from the start were touted as the class with turrets and that theme never really jived with me. Sure, you can play the class without turrets but turrets are a big part of what defines the class. If you're not interested in using turrets, what reason would a new player have in choosing an Engie over a different class?

    Your argument is sort of like saying I can play a Ranger without using a pet. If I didn't want to use a pet, why would I choose a class that has a pet as part of its core identity?

  • stone cold.8609stone cold.8609 Member ✭✭✭

    I blame the hobo sack appearance that the kits had when the game first launched. Anyone else remember these? I know that they put me off engineer for a while!

  • MicROpart.7905MicROpart.7905 Member ✭✭
    edited May 4, 2018

    engineers connected to "Turrets" whic in this game is the worst skill of all, the most useless of all, there u go the reason, engineers should connected between chemical and mechanical theme, but what I see here in this game, its more like An sorcerers in other MMORPG games, throwing bombs? same like throwing fireballs, Flamethrower? same like breathing fire, stun with electrical thingy? same like casting force lightning in star wars old republic..wanna know the most ridiculous one? throwing med kit on the ground and wait people run there to get a very small healing..is just a dumb sorcerers dressed as an engineer..

  • Vagrant.7206Vagrant.7206 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @stone cold.8609 said:
    I blame the hobo sack appearance that the kits had when the game first launched. Anyone else remember these? I know that they put me off engineer for a while!

    Part of the reason I never ran kits when I started playing. Those things were ugly as sin.

    The great god Lagki demands sacrifice!

  • Ardid.7203Ardid.7203 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 4, 2018

    @Leodon.1564 said:

    @Ardid.7203 said:

    @Leodon.1564 said:
    From the beginning, Engineer has remained my least favorite class cause I just don't like immobile turrets. I've heard Holosmith plays differently so my interest in the class has been piqued.

    You know almost no engie build uses turrets (except healing turret, which is insta-blasted anyway), right?
    Scrapper doesn't use turrets, Core doesn't use turrets, Holo doesnt use turrets... The few static discharge builds that use rifle turret don't actually use the turret itself, only the Toolbelt Skill. Basically the only engies that play with immobile turrets are the AFK farmers...

    Well Engies from the start were touted as the class with turrets and that theme never really jived with me. Sure, you can play the class without turrets but turrets are a big part of what defines the class. If you're not interested in using turrets, what reason would a new player have in choosing an Engie over a different class?

    Your argument is sort of like saying I can play a Ranger without using a pet. If I didn't want to use a pet, why would I choose a class that has a pet as part of its core identity?

    I'm super sorry, Leodon, but you are extremely wrong. Turrets were only one possible reason (and a wrong one) to choose Engie. As new players most choose engie because the technological theme. Others simply tried many professions and stayed with the more frenzy one. Some of us simply love the flamethrower.

    While I understand in most games turrets are an integral and distinctive part of an "engineer" class, that is not the case on GW2. Turrets has always been optional for the Engie, even in the brief times they have been truly useful. In GW2 the distinctive and "integral"(quotes because how clunky is the mechanic) skills are the Kits. Because Kits engie has no weapon swap, because kits the toolbelt exist. Because Kits the Engie is known as a "piano" class. You can play without kits, but is not easy.

    You can completely forgot about turrets. You can play without them since day 1. Most builds don't use them. Most players consider them dead skills.
    Turrets are NOT part of Engie's core identity. So, if you don't like "immobile turrets", you SHOULD BY ALL MEANS play Engie. It is one of the most mobile and varied professions in the game. It doesn't use immobile turrets.

    IMO, the only reason you haven't tried the class is a prejudice coming from other games, that has never applied to GW2 Engie. Leave that behind and enjoy.

  • Dralor.3701Dralor.3701 Member ✭✭✭

    In general I think the class has always felt extremely “clunky” for lack of a better word.

    Kits and such aside some of the weapons just aren’t designed very well IMO. Rifle sends you flying all over the screen which isn’t optimal when red circles are all over the ground. Seems like I see more people running around just auto attacking than using the actual weapon skills.

  • Carighan.6758Carighan.6758 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Honestly for me, hyped as I was, the class just feels... disjointed?

    There's many elements which I feel would individually be enough for a classes' "thing", if fully developed. Instead a ton of half-developed ideas like kits to swap weapon skills, toolbelt skills as secondary effects for non-weapon skills, autonomous pets, throwing out potions as a way of supporting, laser weaponry... they're all thrown in there.

    But nothing feels thoroughly designed. And the class just becomes annoying to play in the end :(

  • Biff.5312Biff.5312 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Looking over the replies, I think for the most part it's because most people seem fixated on optimising damage and making the game as easy (and boring) as possible. Personally I enjoy engineers of all types/specs, because I don't measure fun by how fast I can melt mobs, but by how engaging I find the mechanics.

  • Chaith.8256Chaith.8256 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Turrets were never a necessary part of the core Engineers identity. Turrets were never the 'Ranger's pet'. (Toolbelt.)

    Turrets are a utility type, objectively no more the main reason to play Engineer than Spirit Weapons are the reason for playing guardian.

    If any utility type were the reason one would play Engi, it'd be kits because Engi is balanced around taking 1 mandatory kit minimum.

    twitch.tv/chaithh
    Forum Lord Chaith

  • Leodon.1564Leodon.1564 Member ✭✭
    edited May 4, 2018

    @Ardid.7203 said:

    @Leodon.1564 said:

    @Ardid.7203 said:

    @Leodon.1564 said:
    From the beginning, Engineer has remained my least favorite class cause I just don't like immobile turrets. I've heard Holosmith plays differently so my interest in the class has been piqued.

    You know almost no engie build uses turrets (except healing turret, which is insta-blasted anyway), right?
    Scrapper doesn't use turrets, Core doesn't use turrets, Holo doesnt use turrets... The few static discharge builds that use rifle turret don't actually use the turret itself, only the Toolbelt Skill. Basically the only engies that play with immobile turrets are the AFK farmers...

    Well Engies from the start were touted as the class with turrets and that theme never really jived with me. Sure, you can play the class without turrets but turrets are a big part of what defines the class. If you're not interested in using turrets, what reason would a new player have in choosing an Engie over a different class?

    Your argument is sort of like saying I can play a Ranger without using a pet. If I didn't want to use a pet, why would I choose a class that has a pet as part of its core identity?

    I'm super sorry, Leodon, but you are extremely wrong. Turrets were only one possible reason (and a wrong one) to choose Engie. As new players most choose engie because the technological theme. Others simply tried many professions and stayed with the more frenzy one. Some of us simply love the flamethrower.

    While I understand in most games turrets are an integral and distinctive part of an "engineer" class, that is not the case on GW2. Turrets has always been optional for the Engie, even in the brief times they have been truly useful. In GW2 the distinctive and "integral"(quotes because how clunky is the mechanic) skills are the Kits. Because Kits engie has no weapon swap, because kits the toolbelt exist. Because Kits the Engie is known as a "piano" class. You can play without kits, but is not easy.

    You can completely forgot about turrets. You can play without them since day 1. Most builds don't use them. Most players consider them dead skills.
    Turrets are NOT part of Engie's core identity. So, if you don't like "immobile turrets", you SHOULD BY ALL MEANS play Engie. It is one of the most mobile and varied professions in the game. It doesn't use immobile turrets.

    IMO, the only reason you haven't tried the class is a prejudice coming from other games, that has never applied to GW2 Engie. Leave that behind and enjoy.

    How can I be wrong about my own opinion on whether I like a class or not?

    What's the first thing that pops out to you? For me, it was turrets. Sure, you can include the other things like a rifle, grenade, mortar, etc being a part of the Engineer's toolkit but it makes no difference to me as none of these things appeal to me. This thread is about the reasons why people don't choose Engineers and there is no right or wrong to people's preferences.

    I'm not saying Engie is a bad or good class; I have very little experience with it. I'm just pointing out the reason why I don't choose to play it which is mainly that I feel the theme is bland/generic/boring. The class looks like a footsoldier, rather than an interesting hero archetype.

  • Leodon.1564Leodon.1564 Member ✭✭

    @stone cold.8609 said:
    I blame the hobo sack appearance that the kits had when the game first launched. Anyone else remember these? I know that they put me off engineer for a while!

    Yes, the hobosack didn't help my opinion of the class.

  • Chaith.8256Chaith.8256 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leodon.1564 said:
    Well Engies from the start were touted as the class with turrets and that theme never really jived with me. Sure, you can play the class without turrets but turrets are a big part of what defines the class. If you're not interested in using turrets, what reason would a new player have in choosing an Engie over a different class?
    Your argument is sort of like saying I can play a Ranger without using a pet. If I didn't want to use a pet, why would I choose a class that has a pet as part of its core identity?

    @Leodon.1564 said:
    I'm not saying Engie is a bad or good class; I have very little experience with it. I'm just pointing out the reason why I don't choose to play it.

    You've changed your tune, in first post you definitely mis-labeled the core/defining features of the spec, and definitely implied that if a new player didn't like turrets, Engi was not for them. Neither true.

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    Forum Lord Chaith

  • Ardid.7203Ardid.7203 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 4, 2018

    @Leodon.1564, you have the right to like or despise anything you want. I wasn't saying you were wrong on having an opinion.

    @Leodon.1564 said:
    From the beginning, Engineer has remained my least favorite class cause I just don't like immobile turrets .

    I was only pointing your valid opinion is based on incorrect information.

    If you were to say, for example, "I hate Engie because kits are too convoluted", I wouldn't have tried to clarify anything.

  • Leodon.1564Leodon.1564 Member ✭✭
    edited May 4, 2018

    @Ardid.7203 said:
    @Leodon.1564, you have the right to like or despise anything you want. I wasn't saying you were wrong on having an opinion.

    @Leodon.1564 said:
    From the beginning, Engineer has remained my least favorite class cause I just don't like immobile turrets .

    I was only pointing your valid opinion is based on incorrect information.

    If you were to say, for example, "I hate Engie because kits are too convoluted", I wouldn't have tried to clarify anything.

    Fair enough but that doesn't really change that's how my mind works when I'm looking at the different classes and trying to decide on a class to play. I have a hard time trying to pin down what differentiates Engies from the other classes and the thing that comes up for me personally is turrets. I don't really see guns, mortars, flamethrowers, and all the other things that an Engie has as being particularly interesting and class defining.

    Holosmith in comparison to the core Engie looks like a suped up techno-warrior wielding lightsabers, and has that "it" factor which I find missing in the base profession. (At least on the surface; it could suck game-play wise.) If we had Holosmith instead of Engineer from the beginning, I would have definitely considered it as one of the first classes to play.

    I did level an Engie for a little bit as my 5th or 6th profession several years ago and didn't stick with it because I wasn't a fan of all the ground-clicking I was doing using grenades. Plus, I hate complex, arbitrary, and fixed rotations (this is the quintessential definition of "unfun" to me) which Engie seems to be the king of.

  • PistolWhip.2697PistolWhip.2697 Member ✭✭
    edited May 4, 2018

    "Class defining" is down to class primary mechanics which tend to be default keybinded to your F1-F5 or something involved in them.

    The engineer's is toolbelt skills, not turrets. It is a defining feature because no other profession can slot a utility skill and get a 2nd skill in their F1-F5 corrresponding to that skill with a different effect.

    Outside of mechanics, the Engineer is also defined by being the only profession that doesn't use any form of magic, and is highly distinctive in that manner. In fact, the lack of flashy overbearing skills in core, make it stand out in a crowd of bloated and oversaturated "look at me!" Classes.

    Saying Engineer is defined by turrets is like saying, Ranger is defined by shouts, or Thief is defined by traps etc...

    To define a profession by 4 of their utility skills which are optional to take, where no primary profession mechanic is (neither is the toolbelt), is misguided.

    What is more accurate, is that your very valid dislike for engineer stems from your interest in the turret concept but your dislike in its implementation, and there is nothing else in the Engineer theme or skillset which interests you. Even if the turrets were to your liking, I would advise you reconsider playing a class you only like 4-5 utility skills of.

    In addition I would disagree with the "fixed rotation" assessment. Engineer is actually one of the most reactionary and make your own combo professions out there, filling a Swiss army knife concept.

    Ele is far more rotation centric, having a rhythmic pattern in how it ties together attunements, while engineer is about creating your own melody based on the situation out of disjointed tools. It is why it has some of the most finishers in the game, and can as many posters have said "feel unintuitive". It requires the user to fill in that intuition gap.

  • Leodon.1564Leodon.1564 Member ✭✭
    edited May 4, 2018

    @PistolWhip.2697 said:
    "Class defining" is down to class primary mechanics which tend to be default keybinded to your F1-F5 or something involved in them.

    The engineer's is toolbelt skills, not turrets. It is a defining feature because no other profession can slot a utility skill and get a 2nd skill in their F1-F5 corrresponding to that skill with a different effect.

    Outside of mechanics, the Engineer is also defined by being the only profession that doesn't use any form of magic, and is highly distinctive in that manner. In fact, the lack of flashy overbearing skills in core, make it stand out in a crowd of bloated and oversaturated "look at me!" Classes.

    Saying Engineer is defined by turrets is like saying, Ranger is defined by shouts, or Thief is defined by traps etc...

    True but your viewpoint is coming from someone who has played an Engie and understands what toolbelt skills are and the benefits of being able to switch them out via utility skills. All this info is going to go over the head of a new player who is looking at the broad context of things when choosing a profession to play.

    This thread is about why people don't play Engineer and I was giving my reasons as a person who doesn't play Engineer. Most of the people commenting are Engineers and you guys have a different perspective than me. I'm not saying my reasons are right or even makes sense; these are just my reasons.

  • Blood Red Arachnid.2493Blood Red Arachnid.2493 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Personally, right now I just don't find holosmith to be that fun to play. The highest damaging build involves constantly blowing myself up, so without a dedicated healer around I wind up eating dirt more often than not.

    "Self awareness is knowing when you're sitting at the throne of ignorance." --Leo G.

  • keramatzmode.1906keramatzmode.1906 Member ✭✭
    edited May 5, 2018

    @Chaith.8256 said:
    Turrets were never a necessary part of the core Engineers identity. Turrets were never the 'Ranger's pet'. (Toolbelt.)

    Turrets are a utility type, objectively no more the main reason to play Engineer than Spirit Weapons are the reason for playing guardian.

    If any utility type were the reason one would play Engi, it'd be kits because Engi is balanced around taking 1 mandatory kit minimum.

    And then what? That statement valids for Engineer having less skilltypes than other profession? They are much more predictable than other profession? I mean gadget are good, but have you seen them use anything other than rocket boots? We don't have any signet to scale our stats, and we don't have any "invulnerabilty" that lets us attack at the mean time, but yeah sure give mirage, warrior or ranger to be invulnerable to certain damage types, while using an escape skill or bludgening us to death.

    Are the turrets toolbelts is good enough, even if you are forcibly taking a reflect shield under inventions? There are just so many question I would want to ask the developers, why are they making engineer life harder to build and synergise. I didn't say the traits are underpowered, but they like to throw in garbage traits we had to get to use the important ones. Is it because they wanted to make the profession so "intellectual" to build it useful in any kind situations?

    Again, engi as a whole, screams dumb ever since the turret nerf. The engi turret is, referenced by the devs themselves, to be close as possible to TF2 engi where you control a capture points and decap them. It has no mobility, it has no range to kite, it has no good melee (before holo). So turret IS, the main reason people play engi. It was meant to be turtling slow, no dash or gapcloser, just bunkering up an important chokepoint to spearhead defenses and static play.

    Now even when the defensive play is gutted, is why people leave engi. The only good thing left in the core was condi cleanse from elixir gun and protections, and some CC options and dual blocks (which also means you are sacrificing offhand for hammer or the kitten shield). And I repeat my previous statement. People do not give a single kitten about condi cleanse or blocks, because nowadays everyone can do unblockable attacks, and resistance boon is easily obtainable. Its all bout the oneshots combo is the hot kitten kids like to smear themselves with.

    Pick a oneshot build off internet, attempt the oneshot combo, then disengage to reload your cooldown if it fails, and jump back it again for another oneshot attempt. That's why you see deadeyes, daredevils, holo, one shot mirages clowns dancing on WvW and pretend to be some sort of combo god after pressing three button to down an enemy.

    And holo isn't even a proper engi where it can't swap kits in holo mode. It's just a berserker in disguise. Engi is dead. Anet needs to reiterate whether bunker builds are viable to versus with high mobility.

  • Jaruselka.5943Jaruselka.5943 Member ✭✭✭

    Turrets became useless when they took away ground targetting. Being able to place a net turret on a wall was amazing.

  • Kako.1930Kako.1930 Member ✭✭✭

    @stone cold.8609 said:
    I blame the hobo sack appearance that the kits had when the game first launched. Anyone else remember these? I know that they put me off engineer for a while!

    Lol! I know, right? I felt the same way about having my pretty backpieces hidden by the hobosack. The funny thing is that now I use the hobosack skin as my backpieces on my engi. XD

    I think it's a combination of things though, each which drives its own set of players away from playing engi:

    Fashion Wars:
    1. The hobosack
    2. Leather armor/trench coats
    3. Lowest selection of weapon choices
    4. Kits being used more than the actual weapons and not being affected by equipping legendary weapons, making it almost pointless to go for legendaries
    5. The aesthetic of the class as a whole is much less glamorous than other professions

    Gameplay:
    1. Meta builds requiring multiple kits and complicated combos to pull off what other professions do with much less effort
    2. In wvw there is very little use for engi outside of roaming, which could be done better by mesmers, warriors and thieves.
    3. In PvP they have a holomancer build that works, but isn't an essential part of any team. It's okay, but nothing special or worth going out of your way to play engi for.
    4. They have a reputation as being the Jack of all trades, master of none, and there is not much demand for them in any game mode.

    Additional notes:
    1. Their trait lines have a history of being a mess with nothing matching up right and no theme for each line being present.
    2. They have historically had more bugs than other professions that went unfixed for way too long. First there was a 50 page thread about the hobosack, then the tool kit, rocket boots, function gyro, gadgets, healing turret, and everything else. Listing what has never been bugged for engi would take less time.

  • Ghos.1326Ghos.1326 Member ✭✭✭

    @Kako.1930 said:

    1. They have a reputation as being the Jack of all trades, master of none, and there is not much demand for them in any game mode.

    This. I've yet to see engi being a "jack of all trades" in anything right now, or even historically.

    The greatest enemy to improvement, is ignorance. But the desire to learn will cast ignorance into the fire.

  • Courtanis.1498Courtanis.1498 Member
    edited September 26, 2019

    As an Engi main (scrapper) with a boatload of hrs in the game I can tell you that the main issue, at least for me, is that an Engi has to work ten times as hard to do what most classes can do with little to no effort AND there are very few weapons to choose from. It's the difference between learning Chopin on the piano, because you want to hear it, as opposed to just pushing play on your iPod. That said, I just love class and its utility.

  • Why so fiew engineer... Look at the new balance batch you'll know why...

  • Rico.6873Rico.6873 Member ✭✭✭

    Engineer/holo is my pve main
    For fractals/raiding pvp I use anything else

    Also scrapper is a big no for me

  • Engal.6359Engal.6359 Member ✭✭✭

    Lol go to pvp every tryhard in the game is playing holo

  • Kiso.8465Kiso.8465 Member ✭✭

    cause kits are pit stops that you use 1-3 spells and you switch out of them to go to another, turrets are worse scourge shades