Questions on Inventions Traitline

I'm still very green to Engineer/Holosmith and have a few questions about the third Traitline to use, in context with WvW (zerg and small group play). The build I'm using is pretty much settled on using Holosmith, and Explosives, but the third trait line I'm really undecided on.

1. Is Inventions a good line to use for survival? More specifically:a. Thoughts on AMR? Seems like a good skill on paper, but is it practical?b. Is Bunker Down a good trait to use?

2. What about using Tools for extra damage instead?

3. Is the survival extras from Inventions just not worth the extra damage from Tools?

Here's the build I'm currently using for reference:http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQFAUnEID1Xh1ID+dBcJjlBDrvHOETih7n0Rg5LAkeePA-jFSBQBL4CAAgHAw+2fwMKB5iSmsocCP6ASo6PBAQAu5NDA38m38m38m1m38m38m38mhUAZOGA-w

Both alchemy and inventions are defensively oriented trait lines, but the recent gutting of alchemy has made inventions (specifically anticorrosion plating) more useful in dealing with conditions.

1. AMR is probably the best choice in that tier, despite its long cooldown. It can be a life saver.
2. Bunker down is a good trait, but anticorrosion plating is better if conditions are present. Combine anticorrosion plating with hard light arena and you have 8+ condi cleanses plus the boons from HLA.
3. Tools is effective for damage if you like using static discharge. Otherwise, it's more of a utility line. Firearms is a more damage-oriented line.
4. If you have Holosmith and Explosives selected already, I highly recommend that your third line either be inventions or alchemy for defense. Alchemy will provide more general defense and damage resistance, and inventions will provide more healing/cleanse.

I'm not a huge fan of spectrum shield in your build (other stunbreaks are better), and rocket boots without gadgeteer is kind of weak. I also prefer healing turret, but that's a personal preference.

with this build as it is you have no cleanse mechanics . you also need the alchemy traits for boons from passive elixirs. where do you get the boons with this build? your durability rune isnt that much of great use if you dont have enough boons. allthough i like the ecsu. cauterize and prismatic converter wont save you in a team fight situation. i suggest you change explosive trait line with alchemy and may wont to take AP instaed of bunker down. And you can switch rocket boots for hard light arena. very useful skill

@Vagrant.7206 said:Both alchemy and inventions are defensively oriented trait lines, but the recent gutting of alchemy has made inventions (specifically anticorrosion plating) more useful in dealing with conditions.

1. AMR is probably the best choice in that tier, despite its long cooldown. It can be a life saver.
2. Bunker down is a good trait, but anticorrosion plating is better if conditions are present. Combine anticorrosion plating with hard light arena and you have 8+ condi cleanses plus the boons from HLA.
3. Tools is effective for damage if you like using static discharge. Otherwise, it's more of a utility line. Firearms is a more damage-oriented line.
4. If you have Holosmith and Explosives selected already, I highly recommend that your third line either be inventions or alchemy for defense. Alchemy will provide more general defense and damage resistance, and inventions will provide more healing/cleanse.

I'm not a huge fan of spectrum shield in your build (other stunbreaks are better), and rocket boots without gadgeteer is kind of weak. I also prefer healing turret, but that's a personal preference.

@"Funkyshit.9126" said:with this build as it is you have no cleanse mechanics . you also need the alchemy traits for boons from passive elixirs. where do you get the boons with this build? your durability rune isnt that much of great use if you dont have enough boons. allthough i like the ecsu. cauterize and prismatic converter wont save you in a team fight situation. i suggest you change explosive trait line with alchemy and may wont to take AP instaed of bunker down. And you can switch rocket boots for hard light arena. very useful skill

Thank you both for your input. I've made some changes based on what was said and found some great synergy with Tools.

Funky brought up a great point about my Durability runes too. I never really noticed but I don't have a whole lot of boon output. I mostly got them for the defensive stats and the Protection proc, but yeah, the boon duration is a bit of a waste isn't it. What would you suggest to replace it? I like having a lot of Toughness but I looked at the other similar runes and they all seem rather lackluster. What about rune of the Engineer? Does that 7% damage bonus work with Photon Forge?

@Lonewolf Kai.3682 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:Both alchemy and inventions are defensively oriented trait lines, but the recent gutting of alchemy has made inventions (specifically anticorrosion plating) more useful in dealing with conditions.

1. AMR is probably the best choice in that tier, despite its long cooldown. It can be a life saver.
2. Bunker down is a good trait, but anticorrosion plating is better if conditions are present. Combine anticorrosion plating with hard light arena and you have 8+ condi cleanses plus the boons from HLA.
3. Tools is effective for damage if you like using static discharge. Otherwise, it's more of a utility line. Firearms is a more damage-oriented line.
4. If you have Holosmith and Explosives selected already, I highly recommend that your third line either be inventions or alchemy for defense. Alchemy will provide more general defense and damage resistance, and inventions will provide more healing/cleanse.

I'm not a huge fan of spectrum shield in your build (other stunbreaks are better), and rocket boots without gadgeteer is kind of weak. I also prefer healing turret, but that's a personal preference.

@"Funkyshit.9126" said:with this build as it is you have no cleanse mechanics . you also need the alchemy traits for boons from passive elixirs. where do you get the boons with this build? your durability rune isnt that much of great use if you dont have enough boons. allthough i like the ecsu. cauterize and prismatic converter wont save you in a team fight situation. i suggest you change explosive trait line with alchemy and may wont to take AP instaed of bunker down. And you can switch rocket boots for hard light arena. very useful skill

No it doesn't, Photon Forge is technically considered a transform.

Rune of Melandru would fit a more survivalist build, Rune of the Scrapper/Daredevil/Fighter is Power + Toughness.

i added you ingame to help you with everything you want.

Inventions is the new mandatory traitline instead of alchemy. If you don't take inventions then the only condition cleanse that's worth anything is elixir c (lol), purge gyro or med pack drop.

You can drop alchemy, however. You can also drop elixir s after a while IMO. Elixir s is too predictable - both the utility and the trait at 25% health (which has gotten me killed a few times TBH). Little known fact; thumper turret is also a blast when picking it up. That's 3 blasts from 1 skill. This is the build that I use now:http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQFASncoClchVWBubBEqilNjKsdqqpi+tT71e8BKgAA-jFCBQBA4BAoRlf8b/BMcBAqkaFfSVFFpD4MKBDAcAc+5BgzP/8zP/8q+6rP/8zv+6rvepAUdoF-w

And it's IMO a better build for team fights than if you go alchemy. Sure, converting conditions to boons is useful, but having an unblockable pull every 16 seconds to pull a scourge and eliminate him entirely is a lot more useful. The extra endurance/block cooldown/superspeed is also superior survivability. Elixir gun is still good without alchemy. You also get reconstruction field every 21 seconds instead of every 25 seconds and since you can use any elite skill, you can have med pack drop every 52 seconds instead of every 60 seconds. Ultimately, tools is better than alchemy for condition removal in this build. Thumper turret is highly underrated and if used in a light field cures AOE 4 conditions if you use it and it's toolbelt skill. It also launches 2x when laid down which is very underused (can use it to secure stomps btw)

Stealth when CC'd and using rumble btw.

@"Zefrost.3425" said:Inventions is the new mandatory traitline instead of alchemy. If you don't take inventions then the only condition cleanse that's worth anything is elixir c (lol), purge gyro or med pack drop.

You can drop alchemy, however. You can also drop elixir s after a while IMO. Elixir s is too predictable - both the utility and the trait at 25% health (which has gotten me killed a few times TBH). Little known fact; thumper turret is also a blast when picking it up. That's 3 blasts from 1 skill. This is the build that I use now:http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQFASncoClchVWBubBEqilNjKsdqqpi+tT71e8BKgAA-jFCBQBA4BAoRlf8b/BMcBAqkaFfSVFFpD4MKBDAcAc+5BgzP/8zP/8q+6rP/8zv+6rvepAUdoF-w

And it's IMO a better build for team fights than if you go alchemy. Sure, converting conditions to boons is useful, but having an unblockable pull every 16 seconds to pull a scourge and eliminate him entirely is a lot more useful. The extra endurance/block cooldown/superspeed is also superior survivability. Elixir gun is still good without alchemy. You also get reconstruction field every 21 seconds instead of every 25 seconds and since you can use any elite skill, you can have med pack drop every 52 seconds instead of every 60 seconds. Ultimately, tools is better than alchemy for condition removal in this build. Thumper turret is highly underrated and if used in a light field cures AOE 4 conditions if you use it and it's toolbelt skill. It also launches 2x when laid down which is very underused (can use it to secure stomps btw)

Stealth when CC'd and using rumble btw.

You’re using the scrapper line while I’m using holosmith, but I guess your build still could apply for holosmith. Do you feel that your dps suffers a bit without Explosions?

Inventions vs Alchemy for small group or zerg play depends on what you're trying to bring to the group/zerg. Alchemy is more selfish with its minor/major traits and will help your personal survivability and damage whereas Inventions offers more in the way of clearing condis for the group and more protection application.

I'd personally recommend Tools over Explosives. Explosives is burstier (but not as bursty after the change to Minesweeper), but Tools offers more in the way of utility along with its 10% damage bonus with vigor which pairs nicely with Alchemy if you do end up going Alchemy over Inventions.

@Shadowcat.2680 said:Inventions vs Alchemy for small group or zerg play depends on what you're trying to bring to the group/zerg. Alchemy is more selfish with its minor/major traits and will help your personal survivability and damage whereas Inventions offers more in the way of clearing condis for the group and more protection application.

I'd personally recommend Tools over Explosives. Explosives is burstier (but not as bursty after the change to Minesweeper), but Tools offers more in the way of utility along with its 10% damage bonus with vigor which pairs nicely with Alchemy if you do end up going Alchemy over Inventions.

Yeah, definitely like Tools. That 50% endo regen is just super sweet when paired with the dodge heat trait in Holosmith. I’m currently using explosives/tools/holosmith, but after looking at Zefrost’s scrapper build, it got me to thinking about changing inventions/tools/holosmith. Just worried that it’d lower my dps too much.

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@"Funkyshit.9126" said:i added you ingame to help you with everything you want.

i guess some of them are fan of prodigy

@Lonewolf Kai.3682 said:

@Shadowcat.2680 said:Inventions vs Alchemy for small group or zerg play depends on what you're trying to bring to the group/zerg. Alchemy is more selfish with its minor/major traits and will help your personal survivability and damage whereas Inventions offers more in the way of clearing condis for the group and more protection application.

I'd personally recommend Tools over Explosives. Explosives is burstier (but not as bursty after the change to Minesweeper), but Tools offers more in the way of utility along with its 10% damage bonus with vigor which pairs nicely with Alchemy if you do end up going Alchemy over Inventions.

I tried inventions/tools/holosmith in WvW. It felt too squishy for my tastes, particularly whenever Hard Light Arena was on its 45 second cooldown. Scrapper can at least lower the cooldown of its protection pulsing field through Tools since scrapper's protection pulsing is on the toolbelt. There is no way to lower Arena's cooldown.

For the sake of maintaining dps, I think Alchemy is the better partner for Tools with its 100% vigor uptime, but using Alchemy requires putting elixir C on your bar since the other elixirs no longer do any cleansing for the most part.

@Shadowcat.2680 said:

@Lonewolf Kai.3682 said:

@Shadowcat.2680 said:Inventions vs Alchemy for small group or zerg play depends on what you're trying to bring to the group/zerg. Alchemy is more selfish with its minor/major traits and will help your personal survivability and damage whereas Inventions offers more in the way of clearing condis for the group and more protection application.

I'd personally recommend Tools over Explosives. Explosives is burstier (but not as bursty after the change to Minesweeper), but Tools offers more in the way of utility along with its 10% damage bonus with vigor which pairs nicely with Alchemy if you do end up going Alchemy over Inventions.

Yeah, I can see that. Now with the upcoming nerf sledgehammer (not even a bat!) to holosmith, you’ll have to go really squishy to make up for the dps losses.

@Lonewolf Kai.3682 So this is completely unrelated to your top post, but I LOVE the Lone Wolf series by Joe Dever. Are you still active in game? Are you a member of a Kai oriented guild? Which server are you on?

I absolutely love the series! Not in a Kia oriented guild though. I ended up adopting the Kai to the name because Lone Wolf is quite often taken in most games.

I started a Kai oriented Guild on Ardent Dawn for kicks and giggles. I attempted to use "Order of the Kai" which was already taken. But I've never seen anyone with that guild, I assumed you might be in it

@"SteelFalcon.3910" said:I started a Kai oriented Guild on Ardent Dawn for kicks and giggles. I attempted to use "Order of the Kai" which was already taken. But I've never seen anyone with that guild, I assumed you might be in it

Yes, that’d be an awesome name for a guild. I did see a guild once named Magnakai. I abou flipped over with I saw it and talked with the fellow. It’s been several years ago and sadly they aren’t active anymore.

Well I ended up just going with Kai Lord's because the other was taken. It's so rare that I see or meet someone who likes the series as much as I do.

@"Lonewolf Kai.3682" said:I'm still very green to Engineer/Holosmith and have a few questions about the third Traitline to use, in context with WvW (zerg and small group play). The build I'm using is pretty much settled on using Holosmith, and Explosives, but the third trait line I'm really undecided on.

1. Is Inventions a good line to use for survival? More specifically:a. Thoughts on AMR? Seems like a good skill on paper, but is it practical?b. Is Bunker Down a good trait to use?

2. What about using Tools for extra damage instead?

3. Is the survival extras from Inventions just not worth the extra damage from Tools?

Here's the build I'm currently using for reference:http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQFAUnEID1Xh1ID+dBcJjlBDrvHOETih7n0Rg5LAkeePA-jFSBQBL4CAAgHAw+2fwMKB5iSmsocCP6ASo6PBAQAu5NDA38m38m38m1m38m38m38mhUAZOGA-w

1a) Don't use AMR. ABD is far better.1b) Only in PvP.2) Do this ;)3) No. It's only viable with 1200+ Heal Power for blast heal and share heal.

Try this:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQFAUnUUB1UhFJDmXB0ehlBDbcI8giQfBg0T7pvHOEPiA-jFSBQBA4BAsv9HyiyJuokZBXAgEq+jZUCiHdABAQAu5NDA38m38m38m1m38m38m38mhUAZOGA-w

You'll get stealth, aoe heal/cleanse, projectile reflection, bs, damage, damage and more damage.

@"Funkyshit.9126" said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@"Funkyshit.9126" said:i added you ingame to help you with everything you want.

What’s wrong with Funky’s hit?

@MrMojoRisin.7364 said:

@"Funkyshit.9126" said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@"Funkyshit.9126" said:i added you ingame to help you with everything you want.

some find it offensive i guess. damn. in game i had to change it because someone reported me i think

Would using both inventions and alchemy be too much of a hit on personal damage?

@Rysdude.3824 said:Would using both inventions and alchemy be too much of a hit on personal damage?

That would depend on what traits you took in both of the trait lines. While you would do more damage using bunker down, you would sacrifice extra condi cleanse from anticorrosion plating on protection gain. Same with alch, you sacrifice boon gain and heal per boon gain if you go with HGH.

@Rysdude.3824 said:Would using both inventions and alchemy be too much of a hit on personal damage?

Depends on your goals.

I personally don't find it too big a hit on damage. I run Marauder Holo + Alchemy + Inventions for a bruiser build with HLA. It lets me sit on points and deal enough damage to scare most opponents off, even with a scourge sitting there.

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@Rysdude.3824 said:Would using both inventions and alchemy be too much of a hit on personal damage?

What is HLA?