PvP/WvW Skill Split Release - Page 4 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

PvP/WvW Skill Split Release

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  • Master Ketsu.4569Master Ketsu.4569 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Daemonium.8269 said:
    Since there will be an increased CD on scourge skills,please,consider an equal adjustment on Life Force consumption.....and please,pvp and wvw those warning are making me bleed my eyes.

    Scourge lifeforce is the easiest "energy system" to maintain by a laughably massive margin. Once the fight gets going you don't even have to pay attention to it half the time. I don't think changes to lifeforce in response to CD changes will make much of a difference.

  • Menzo.2185Menzo.2185 Member ✭✭✭

    Suggestions for elite skills:

    Weave Self : Weave Self (20s) to Weave Self (25s); Perfect Weave (10s) to Perfect Weave (20s)
    Elite Mortar Kit: Change ALL; more damage to all these skills. no need of Healing
    Conjure Fiery Greatsword recharge 180s to 120s
    Tornado recharge 150s to 120s
    Glyph of Elementals recharge 90s equal to Summon Flesh Golem: 48s
    Mass Invisibility recharge 90s to 60s
    Signet of Humility recharge 180 to 120s
    Time Warp recharge 180s to 120s
    Gravity Well recharge 90s to 120s
    Lich Form recharge 180s to 120s
    Plaguelands recharge 120s to 90s
    Ghastly Breach recharge 75s to 90s
    "Chilled to the Bone!" recharge 90s to 60s
    Summon Flesh Golem - Charge recharge 40s to 25s
    Basilisk Venom recharge 40s to 60s
    Impact Strike recharge 40s to 60s
    Thieves Guild recharge 180s to 120s
    Shadow Meld recharge 5s to 10s
    Entangle recharge 60s to 75s
    "Strength of the Pack!" recharge 75s to 60s

    Let the engineers change weapons IMPORTANT

  • @Gaile Gray.6029 said:

    High Level Goals

    Reduce influence of passive traits. (PvP not WvW)

    • Passive skills make the game less skillful.
    • The prevalence of passives is a common competitive player complaint. (PvP only)

    Add this to wvw aswell !

  • Morde.3158Morde.3158 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 23, 2018

    What are these Necro changes? How about reaper shroud CD?

  • Highlie.7641Highlie.7641 Member ✭✭✭

    Looks decent as far as thief is concerned. just a few points (which i will try and keep short)
    -Passives :+1:

    -Damage buff's are not needed on the thief profession. A lot of the reasons the thief community where / are asking for damage buff's was due to the extreme sustainability of other professions. since it seems like you removed alot of there passive kitten, chances are we are going to be doing to much dmg as is.

    -instant cast spells: Things like Inf strike, steal cnd BS, Shadow shot, Inf signet Can all be dodged, you just need to learn distances. What can't be dodged are things like Lightning Flash + Burning field, because the radius on there AOE is larger then the distance traveled in a dodge roll. This is part of the reason you where seeing every thief run UH, (Before nerf)

    Shadow shot: No, just no.. that skill is already over tuned for damage. i can see the spam now.

    Sword auto attack: while most of us aren't big fan's of high damage auto attacks i'm a bit conflicted on this one. for the longest time the majority of your damage on S/d came from auto attacks, recently you guy's have been loading up Larc strike. IMO you should split the damage evenly across both (auto's and larc) which would allow more variety in combat instead of FS Larc port repeat.

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    Hey folks,

    The Competitive team and the Skills & Balance team are working together on an upcoming skill split release. We've posted a list of our first draft of proposed changes. We'd love your feedback. Please try to keep the feedback to the original post so that we can view the feedback in one place!

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/29690/pvp-wvw-skill-split-release

    I appreciate that the team is looking to make some changes between pve and wvw/spvp.

    Some feedback from a player who use to be a competitive support role player before esports and twitch were a thing...

    Ranger-
    The changes to ranger Celestial Avatar are killing the team healing aspect of this build. With HoT the team decided to add more playable roles, yet, changes keep being made to Druid that discourage playing said role. The team built Druid to be a healer for fast paced and hard hitting combat, yet you gate our ability to heal for A WHOPPING 20 seconds... Druid form is already easy to shut down through hard control skills (knock backs, interrupts, daze, immob) and poison debuffs all heals by 33%... If you are attempting to cater to those duelers, who mostly run around with zerker builds that have zero toughness, then you are making a realy bad mistake. It's awful for the team to put any support player in a position where they have to appoligize to their team because they were locked out of their main heals due to timers (like I have had to do). This 20s is not a good design when there are tons of counters to the build. Staff is not a quality healing weapon to rely on either.

    Druid staff auto is already horrible damage and low heals, yet it needs to be reduced why? When I'm running around in wvw and getting blasted for thousands of damage, the staff auto doesn't even compare... Staff 2 is useless in wvw. Staff 3 is great utility. Staff 4 misses all those moving targets. Staff 5 is pretty ineffective compared to a ton of skills I can bring up... Overall it's a low quality weapon design and that's all the team can come up with? Meanwhile I'm destroying things on my staff Daredevil and able to spamming skill 5 for 10k bursts multiple times... but Ranger staff auto is problematic? I got wrecked on my necro in full trailblazer in like 3 seconds by a Mesmer burst out of stealth for 24k, but druid staff auto?

    Here are some real suggestions for Druid...
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/9803/druid-changes#latest

    Ranger pet problems that have been an issue since alpha...
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/9788/when-are-major-pet-issues-getting-fixed#latest

    Both daggers need a competitive redo...
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/568/daggers-need-redo-and-backstab#latest

    Zero changes to make playing support roles smooth and fun are ever made, so maybe take a gander...
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/9830/playing-heal-support-not-enjoyable#latest

    Necro-

    Suffers from the least amount of build diversity for wvw and spvp. Poorest mobility. Slowest overall skill casting speeds. Poor utility and defensive skills comparatively. Worst performing power builds and worst melee weapons. It's basically go condi or go home. I appreciate some cooldown reductions, but you are missing the big issues that were mentioned above.

    Meanwhile condis keep getting nerfed because the system is not redone...
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/12148/my-cute-lil-necro-would-like-22-999k-opening-burst-too#latest

    How many effective GS reapers do we encounter in wvw and spvp? not many, because the GS needs a competitive redo.
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/9819/greatsword-changes#latest

    Please don't take anything I've said as rude, but the team has remained in the spread sheet trap of "change a few numbers" balancing, while not addressing the real balance issues and problems.

    Think of the druid staff nerf and remember stuff like this...

  • Abelisk.4527Abelisk.4527 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I'm glad builds are being balanced out. Less sustain and less burst is the perfect track to be walking on.

  • Allarius.5670Allarius.5670 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    One additional note: The changes we're targeting here are nearly all focused on areas we could split between game modes. Please try to keep feedback focused in that area.

    Things outside of basic numbers changes (changing the way a skill works) are not splittable.

    This is unfortunate as my first reactionary suggestion would be to take all passive traits that are now set at 90 sec and do something else with them, especially now that they have been recognized as problematic for enjoyment.

    I would have suggested using those traits to reduce their associated skills (or another defensive skill in the case that no skill is attached) by 10 seconds. This would require (1) the player slot the skill and (2) utilize it effectively, albeit more frequently. Ideally these traits would be removed and replaced altogether regardless of game mode, though this could be an adequate approach.

    Alternatively, when time is available and should originally functionality remain desired in PvE, this secondary function could be added and the values simply adjusted based on game mode. For example, Self Regulating Defenses would have normal functionality set at 75 seconds and cooldown reduction on Elixir S set at 0 seconds for PvE, while for PvP and WvW normal functionality would be set at 0 seconds and cooldown reduction on Elixir S set at 10 seconds.

  • Hiraldo.7954Hiraldo.7954 Member ✭✭✭

    @Threather.9354 said:
    I am not sure if I agree with reverting the resistance corrupting to immob for WvW like lot of people here suggest.

    If there would just be enough players on commander with AoE clenase, there would be no conditions at all with the new specs like scourge, holo, firebrand.

    Real guilds have no problem with it. Why do these people do?

    "Real guilds"? Every "real guild" I know has been complaining about that change since it was announced.

    [KEK] [kitten] [KRAB] [TTD] [TG] | Fort Aspenwood

  • Sort of a side note, but I assume this means you plan to buff/nerf PvE based solely off PvE numbers in the future, correct? If so, is there going to be a post on changes for that as well? I mainly ask, even though this is in the PvP forum, because since launch PvE players have gotten massive nerfs to skills because they made people cry in PvP (a good example is the incredibly annoying change in delay for Scourge Shades in PvE where there was literally no need for it outside PvP/WvW).

  • @Razor.6392 said:
    I like the increase in CD of get-out-of-jail auto proc passives, but I'm puzzled about mesmer. No changes at all? So mesmer right now is fine for ANet?

    Love me some Shatterstone buffs though!

    Apparently letting 16 berserkers one shot everything for you is not the definition of 'passive' in Anet's eyes.

  • as usual anet giveth and anet taketh away once again making necros crappy just like they keep doing over and over and over and over and over and over. why does anyone bother playing this anymore? think its time to go back to adventure quest worlds. at leastthey try to balance things right. anet should REALLY get their staff from guild wars 1 back at least they knew what they were doing. the curent team outright sucks.

  • Derm.4932Derm.4932 Member ✭✭✭

    Pretty good changes overall except Mesmer will still be too strong and you nerfed an already underperforming DH(understandable since you want to nerf passives overall) but didn't compensate by giving DH buffs elsewhere. Guardians will still be forced into support or core. Damage changes to long bow would at least make it more competitive.

  • Allarius.5670Allarius.5670 Member ✭✭✭

    Suggestions, Mesmer:
    1) Consider Desperate Decoy cooldown increase for the sake of consistency in approach across all professions and their passive traits.
    2) Confounding Suggestions: I'd suggest limiting the stun triggered from the trait to Mesmer applied Diversion only, but since functionality changes are not on the table I'd suggest dramatically reducing the stun duration. Though it may or may not be over-performing, this change does fall under "Reduce effectiveness of offensive instant cast skills/traits" of which Mantra Mesmer is a notorious culprit regardless of multi-skill followup.

  • anduriell.6280anduriell.6280 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 23, 2018

    @Gaile Gray.6029 said:
    A message from the Competitive and Skills & Balance Teams:

    Hi folks! The Competitive team and the Skills & Balance team have been working together closely on a future balance release that focuses almost entirely on PvP and WvW skill splits. As part of this, we wanted to switch things up and approach this release similar to how we approached the PvP sigil changes we did a while back, when we released our first draft of the proposed changes.

    With this set of proposed changes, we'd like to get your thoughts and ideas on both our high level goals and how we're going about accomplishing them. You guys may bring up concerns or thoughts we didn't consider. While reviewing these changes, please consider them as a whole rather than focusing on individual classes.

    ** We're looking forward to a productive discussion!**

    Increase build diversity

    Ranger

    Skills

    • Seed of Life: Increased the cooldown from 1 second to 3 seconds in PvP and WvW
    • Rejuvenating Tides: Reduced the base healing per pulse from 650 to 550 (-15%) in PvP and WvW
    • Solar Beam: Reduced the power coefficient per strike from 0.3 to 0.25 (-17%) in PvP and WvW
    • Signet of Stone: Reduced the duration from 6 seconds to 3 seconds in PvP and WvW. Reduced the cooldown from 80 seconds to 40 in PvP and WvW
    • Celestial Avatar: Increased the cooldown from 15 seconds to 20 seconds in PvP and WvW
    • Ricochet: Increased the power coefficient from 0.7 to 0.8 (+14%) in PvP and WvW. Increased Might duration from 5 seconds to 10 seconds in PvP and WvW
    • Winter's Bite: Increased the power coefficient from 1.25 to 1.5 (+20%) in PvP and WvW. Increased the Bleeding duration from 8 seconds to 12 seconds in PvP and WvW
    • Splitblade: Increased the power coefficient per axe from 0.3 to 0.4 (+33%) in PvP and WvW
    • Instinctive Engage: Increased the power coefficient from 0.6 to 1 (+67%) in PvP and WvW
    • Healing Spring: Increased the number of conditions cleansed per pulse from 1 to 2 in PvP and WvW

    Traits

    • Stoneform: Increased the cooldown from 70 seconds to 90 seconds in PvP only
    • Shared Anguish: Increased the cooldown from 60 seconds to 90 seconds in PvP only
    • Protective Ward: Increased the cooldown from 18 seconds to 30 seconds in PvP only
    • Refined Toxins: Increased the cooldown from 5 seconds to 15 seconds in PvP and WvW
    • Rugged Growth: Reduced the healing power coefficient from 0.245 to 0.1225 (-50%) in PvP and WvW
    • Grace of the Land: Reduced the number of Might stacks applied from 3 to 2 in PvP and WvW
    • Fortifying Bond: Reduced duration of shared Might stacks from 10 seconds to 5 seconds in PvP and WvW
    • "We Heal as One!:" Reduced duration of copied Might stacks from 10 seconds to 5 seconds in PvP and WvW
    • Fresh Reinforcement: Reduced shared Might duration 10 seconds to 5 seconds in PvP and WvW
    • Ambidexterity: Increased the Condition Damage granted from 150 to 240 in PvP and WvW
    • Two-Handed Training: Increased the bonus damage from 5% to 10% in PvP and WvW

    Gaile please transmit my conngratulations to the balance team. Although i couldn't test yet i see nerfs in the worst offenders in wvw which is good. Anyhow I'd like their help t actually make the ranger fun, changeling and rewarding to play with a great build diversity. This changes make druid more balanced, but ranger is even more hammered down while nerfing skills which are already chosen because those are the lesser evil instead being the desired option. Please send them this wall text.

    Now please let them know this points about other classes with the actual balance choices:
    Changes to warrior traits in pvp should be applied also in wvw. Is really disheartening when you fight somebody which have 16 seconds immunity to direct hits every 20 seconds. (between endure pains and shield) which does massive damage during 16 seconds every 20.
    Thief in general needs a nerf in general damage in one hit. Fight against a deadeye wich can do 27k damage with one shot,while standing stealthed all the time it is not fun. The balance stealth dilemma must be solved as it is not fair to be instakilled by a permament stealthed player. The longer they stay in stealth the less damage they should do and the less initiative they have left the less damage they can do. And the damage nerf by initiative lost should be significant so they can't play teleports freely.

    Having classes which can instadown any player from stealth and without warning is not a fun game to play.

    SUPPORT BUILDS
    About build diversity: other than the nerfs ranger needs the mobile spirits back. That is a must have for ranger to be welcomed in any squads,just make the buffs in wvw to apply to 5 (instead 10 like in pve) and have a unique simple effect in long interval to reduce server load. Anyhow ranger needs much more than it is done as it has been abandoned for too long. Passives should be reworked so they are simpler (25% chance on hit to apply 25% damage(Storm), apply freeze 3 secs(ice), apply burning 3 secs(sun), apply heal(water), apply inmob 3 sec(earth), corrupt\remove a boon (nature)) triggered once every 6 seconds interval 6 seconds. An actives to be ground target skills (second click) with the actual effects. Increase spirits CD if the trait is taken up to 40 secs (you get advantages (mobility) to give something in return)

    CONDITION BUILDS,
    Traps need the range back by baseline, With this originally the trait was designed to allow the ranger to compete against the other classes with strong ranged AoEs or a lot of immunities to keep the melee combat. That's not the case of the ranger and now there is not an effective condition damage.

    • Traps should become like it was before the trait change: they can be redesigned like mines, either way ranger needs back the ranged condition AoE. Range can be reduced from 900(original trait) to 600 or 400 (depends on CD) so there a difference with light armor classes.
    • Traps effects and trait to be reviewed so they are fun and a player can build around those. All traps should be condition based (ice trap is like a inconsistent choice for condition build). Mostly they are on the spot just need some buff \ change effect to be fun. Traps instead causing burs could be based in a wear enemy off philosophy.
      Traits may apply more than one effect, one on trigger (like muddy terrain or spike trap) focused in CC\burst followed by wear off conditions. Example: spike trap is a good design (initial knock down + bleeds) although in an excessive high CD. Keep in mind ranger as it miss a lot of passive\active deffensses other classes have needs a higher lower CD in skills to be useful.

    • Shortbow get back the 1200 range and quick shot to become a 600 leap. Light on your feet to apply flaking effects to front.

    Skirmish trait-line to have more access to conditions:

    • in master add a trait "Punishing wounds" which have 25% chance to apply torment when the ranger or pet apply a damaging condition instead the sword trait. Strider defense to be scrapped, its not an adequate design for ranger. Sword also have an almost spammy low Cd , so no need to even reduced CD in skills.
    • Sharpened edges to become 30% on hot instead on crit. simpler as such less server load.
    • Trapper expertise changed to apply reduced CD and superspeed when trap is launched.

    Wildnerness survival

    • refined toxins: changed to 25% change to apply 2 secs poison on hit. Here we have an issue with condi ranger not to be viable in WvW\PvP. Increasing the Cd in this trait will not improve the changes but make less desirable build diversity forcing every single ranger into power.
    • Ruged grouth: The sweet spot of this trait is to apply the heal every second while in combat.

    UNREWARDING WEAPON SKILLS - OUTDATED DESIGN

    • axe 5 the wirling thing needs to have mobility. In no real situation the ranger can stand immobile for +2 secs in wvw.*
      *Axe 4 (path of scars) needs a wider path. Right now is trying to thread a mobile needle. in other words extremely disheartening
    • dagger 5 needs to be a teleport the same as Judge's Intervention with the actual dagger effect on the target.Just needs the teleport so a melee ranger can keep up with all those high mobile targets.
    • dagger 4 needs to be an interrupt\stun also.
    • Sword 2 to remove precast and have an arrow to choose direction of the monarch leap.
    • Sword 3 to increase range to 400 and become a reliable skill, to be used a gap closer. If it hits to apply 1 sec immob so it can be used also to keep the enemy in melee.
    • signet of renewal: This signet to cleanse only the ranger. This signet to transfer conditions to the pet from only the ranger, apply long(10secs) lasting resistance to the pet. Increase passive healing base. While in beastmode to apply the resistance to the soulbeast

    Soulbeast needs more access to quickness and better sustain based in conditions.

    • predators cunning need to be applied with every damaging condition the ranger applies Once every second like now.
    • Essence of speed to be changed to apply 3 secs quickness every 15 secs on hit an enemy. So while the soulbeast is hunting may have access to quickness .
    • Fresh reinforcement simply to apply an extra 2 secs to every boon applied by the ranger (no pet).Simple and freed the soulbeast from concentration which is a must for the core ranger.
    • Eternal bond to apply also 3 secs of resistance and total evade while can't attack (similar effect to engineers elixir S). 90 Secs Cd but the pet can attack normaly.
    • it becomes baseline or being removed completely as for soulbeast is not ggod to have a trait of something which shoudl be baseline. Otherwise we reproduce the nature magic trait line inconsistency which forces ranger into the bunker traitline limiting greatly the build variety,
    • Unstoppable union to have the effects not only when merged but also when emerged (also when eternal bond is triggered) no ICD as it's controlled by the souldbeast CD. This is to allow the soulbeast to have a reliable access to unblockable and break stun to it can stand up in melee against better designed and stronger classes. Otherwise is too niche to be of an any actual use and soulbeast needs to be able to stand against high stun time classes like some warriors, thief, scourge, engi or mesmer builds
  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 23, 2018

    Nerfing stuff won’t make the things that need improvement better... How about we focus on buffing things up to competitive levels first, before the teams waves the “used on the training dummy” and spread sheet data nerfing sticks?

  • Fenrir Bartea.5917Fenrir Bartea.5917 Member ✭✭
    edited February 23, 2018

    The damage reductions across the board look great for WvW (can't speak for pvp as I don't often set foot in there). Please also consider the state of reaper in wvw. It has definitely been pushed out of the meta. This is mainly due to the PoF power creep; but also the **reaper shroud degen nerf. **It decays too quickly to compete with most other melee builds and their blocks/invulns/evades. In my opinion, that change was a little too heavy handed.

    Either revert the degen nerf, return the shroud cooldown reduction to Speed of Shadows, or give us more ways to gain life force. Please and thank you.

    Go Go Power Reaper [Solo]

  • I'm really hoping for an actual renegade rework at some point in the future (as opposed to constantly slapping number buffs here and there), the fact that one of the Kalla summon is useless in power builds and that all Kalla summons can be destroyed (sucks in wvw)as well as all the LoS issues of sb, the fact that it is suprisingly slow, the reverse shotgun principle of sb skill 3 which will realistically never hit moving targets in pvp, the somewhat boring traits etc. etc. remain massive issues that kind of hold renegade back

  • @Derm.4932 said:
    Pretty good changes overall except Mesmer will still be too strong and you nerfed an already underperforming DH(understandable since you want to nerf passives overall) but didn't compensate by giving DH buffs elsewhere. Guardians will still be forced into support or core. Damage changes to long bow would at least make it more competitive.

    Support will be destroyed by removal of magi amulet, which was already the most supportish you could go and even then it was getting deleted by power chrono/mirage. Unless there is a new OP amulet like how cleric was or with vitality healing power boon duration that's 1 more viable build gone from the game. So going from 2 viable builds to 1 is hardly the definition of 'increasing build diversity' is it Anet? Or do you believe that we will see spirit weapon guards in the top teams now...?

    At this point everybody just needs to reroll to S/D thief and power mesmer and we can all have fun getting one shotted by the very definition of instant cast abilities and passive gameplay.

  • Right now, warriors have a serious level of invulnerability in WvW which is not being addressed by these changes. Personally if I had to choose, I'd rather those got a nerf and the damage level remained the same in WvW than reduce their damage but keep their ability to ignore things for what seems like 30 seconds at a time

  • just skimmed through for now. I hope they will properly adjust damage numbers if the intend is to slow things down. if it can't be in the upcoming patch do these numbers as quickly as possible. out of the top of my head FA weaver power mesmer, death eye might be a bit overtuned. or builds alike. i hope the patches are more frequent in the goal of slowing down the pace a bit.

  • Doctor.1384Doctor.1384 Member ✭✭✭

    The revenant changes are mostly good, they are trying to make frontline dwarf/demon more viable. This is good since revs are a soldier proffession and should exist in frontlines. The changes to forced engangement are bad, rev legends need as few and as low cooldowns as possible. Itd be fine if they just remove the cd and have an energy cost of 25. Mallyx and shiro are good examples of how a legend should play.

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 23, 2018

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    One additional note: The changes we're targeting here are nearly all focused on areas we could split between game modes. Please try to keep feedback focused in that area.

    Things outside of basic numbers changes (changing the way a skill works) are not splittable.

    Would it be possible to do an AMA with the balance team?

    Also, would it be possible to discuss class changes with players who have been playing them for years?

    I'm a ranger main, and although I do believe Druid needed nerfs, I think they've been done in the wrong way. Overall, I think these changes will completely remove Druid from the meta and make playing it even more slow and stale than it was before.

    I believe the same can be said for most of the other classes as well.

  • Thoughts on the Thief Suggestions:

    • Dagger & Sword Autoattack chain nerfs - This will hurt. Especially with sword which is rather on the slow side as it is now.
    • Heartseeker and Shadowshot damage buffs - These don't need buffs but I guess it was to make up for the dagger auto nerfs
    • Acrobatic Trait Changes - I've been saying it for years but just rework the entire trait line. The passive changes are mostly for PvP and I get why but I'll be better off picking any other line if the changes go through.

    Everything else I can live with

  • @cat.8975 said:

    @Gaile Gray.6029 said:

    Guardian

    Skills

    • Signet of Resolve: Reduced the cooldown from 35 seconds to 30 seconds in PvP and WvW
    • Leap of Faith: Increased the power coefficient from 1.1 to 1.25 (+14%) in PvP and WvW
    • Signet of Mercy: Reduced the cooldown from 150 seconds to 90 seconds in PvP and WvW
    • Sword of Justice: Reduced the ammo recharge time from 25 seconds to 20 seconds in PvP and WvW
    • Bow of Truth: Reduced the ammo recharge time from 30 seconds to 25 seconds in PvP and WvW
    • Hammer of Wisdom: Reduced the ammo recharge time from 30 seconds to 25 seconds in PvP and WvW
    • Feel my Wrath: Reduced the cooldown from 45 seconds to 35 seconds in PvP and WvW

    Traits

    • Zealous Blade: Increased the bonus damage from 5% to 10% in PvP and WvW

    I feel like all of these guard buffs could be applied to PvE as well. Some of these splits are a little unnecessary. Overall very nice changes for WvW though, and the removal of Magi Amulet/Surging Runes will help PvP immensely.

    I agree i think some of these should be in the base PvE game
    especially "Zealous Blade: Increased the bonus damage from 5% to 10%"

  • purpledrank.9053purpledrank.9053 Member
    edited February 23, 2018

    I'm glad the changes are bringing PoF specs down instead of trying to raise everything up to their level. Changes are in the right direction, and this is coming from a thief/spellbreaker main in sPvP (specs which are seeing mainly nerfs), so long as druid/scourge/holo/fb go down with it. I'm actually really excited to try sword on warrior - it's just my favorite weapon but it's been so bad in sPvP for a while. Keep it up!

  • The main issue I have with these balance suggestions for holosmith is the suggested changes to corona burst, the loss of stability generation without having to hit ennemies for holosmith and the decrease in might generation is HUGE and hurts holo really badly for its high risk high reward gameplay, the other nerfs are kind of justified to some extent, although the minesweeper's damage reduction is unjustified.

  • Crinn.7864Crinn.7864 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 23, 2018

    @Gaile Gray.6029 said:
    Reduce influence of passive traits. (PvP not WvW)

    • Passive skills make the game less skillful.
    • The prevalence of passives is a common competitive player complaint. (PvP only)

    Honestly a better solution rather than just giving large ICD increases to every passive would be to give every passive a UI icon like Soothing Bastion does. This means opponents don't have to constantly guess about what passives are up, and also allows the player using the passive a bit more clarity to what defensives they have available. Giving UI icons to passives would go a long way to making the combat system a bit more transparent.

    • Rune of Surging has been removed from the PvP build panel

    I am glad to see that 6pc bonus removed as shocking aura is just so asinine to deal with. However Rune of Surging is also the only rune with +power +boon duration, and it's removal will hurt a number of builds many of which aren't even meta. Perhaps a better solution would be to change what Aura is granted by the 6pc bonus? Light aura maybe?

    • Magi Amulet has been removed from the PvP build panel

    Why? The bunker meta is long dead, we are in the burstiest meta in years. Why must you keep nerfing supports? This game is rapidly becoming a Rocket Tag game and that is not a good thing.

    Necromancer

    Would you consider skill splitting Reaper's Shroud degeneration rate and/or cooldown for sPvP? Reaper literally does not have the sustain to function in this extremely bursty meta.

    • Garish Pillar: Increased the cooldown from 15 seconds to 20 seconds in PvP and WvW

    Fair enough, brings the skill inline with other shroud fears

    • Ghastly Breach: Increased the cooldown from 75 seconds to 90 seconds in PvP and WvW

    Should have happened ages ago.
    Although while your at it, can you revisit the cooldown of Plaguelands? In PvP and WvW Plaguelands is a worse version of Ghastly Breach in every facet, yet plaguelands has a 120 second cooldown.

    • Plague Signet: Increased the cooldown from 30 seconds to 40 seconds in PvP and WvW

    Why? Plague Signet has it's advantages and disadvantages and using it properly is one of necromancer's bigger skill checks. Yeah sure it's commonly used by meta Scourge, but it ain't what is making meta Scourge strong.

    • Trail of Anguish: Increased the cooldown from 25 seconds to 35 seconds in PvP and WvW

    tbh, I'd rather see Trail of Anguish just have some of it's more superfluous functions removed instead of getting it's cooldown increased.

    • Life Siphon: Reduced the cooldown from 12 seconds to 10 seconds in PvP and WvW
    • Dark Pact: Reduced the cooldown from 25 seconds to 20 seconds in PvP and WvW

    Still not going to ever use dagger.

    • Signet of Vampirism: Reduced the cooldown from 35 seconds to 30 seconds in PvP and WvW. Increased the base heal from 3960 to 4950 (+25%) in PvP and WvW
    • Signet of the Locust: Increased the power coefficient from 0.65 to 1.0 (+54%) in PvP and WvW. Increased the base heal per hit from 970 to 1455 (+50%) in PvP and WvW

    Good changes. I might actually consider using a SoS build for the first time since the removal of siggy corrupts. Although I doubt the changes are strong enough to make those skills show up on top tier builds.

    • Well of Blood: Increased the base heal from 5240 to 6026 (+15%) in PvP and WvW. Increased the heal per pulse from 280 to 490 (+75%) in PvP and WvW
    • Well of Suffering: Reduced the cooldown from 35 seconds to 30 seconds in PvP only. Increased the amount of Vulnerability applied per pulse from 2 stacks to 4 stacks in PvP only.

    I can get behind this, particularly since well builds are becoming increasingly popular with Reapers as a way to offset Reaper's defensive failings.

    • Reaper's Protection: Increased the cooldown from 60 seconds to 90 seconds in PvP only

    Can this trait just be replaced? Death Magic as a traitline is never used in PvP, and Reaper's Protection is a weak trait even by Death Magic standards. At a 90 second ICD the trait might as well just not exist.

    • Last Gasp: Increased the cooldown from 50 seconds to 75 seconds in PvP only

    I get that you're out to kill all the passives, but please keep in mind that necromancer as a profession has very poor defense in sPvP, and this is particularly true for core and Reaper. The profession simply cannot sustain any more of these defensive nerfs without compensation somewhere else.

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  • Mesmer says hello

  • Exedore.6320Exedore.6320 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    One additional note: The changes we're targeting here are nearly all focused on areas we could split between game modes. Please try to keep feedback focused in that area.

    Things outside of basic numbers changes (changing the way a skill works) are not splittable.

    I noticed that pretty much any trait which completely negates a CC (by being a stun break or CC'ing the attacker) had it's CD increased to 90sec. Is this just a temporary measure to make the traits less appealing until they can be re-worked, or is this viewed as a permanent solution?

  • schloumou.3982schloumou.3982 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 23, 2018

    Can we please stop splitting PvP and WvW skills? Especially the way it is done atm. Skills that are considered too strong in PvP tend to snowball with available runes, food and gear. Further: "The prevalence of passives is a common competitive player complaint. (PvP only)" WvW players dont like it either. They just often comment in the PvP and WVW section. Please stop thinking WvW players are really into PvE.

  • @Kenshu.3825 said:
    If you do this to Hammer Revs, I just don't understand why you can't just leave them maybe be for once? I can still pretty much get one shot my Mesmers but the DMG I do with my Hammer is still too much? If I just Hammer for my Rev seeing how this is the only class I play/want to play/enjoy playing to roam with. I from the start and already gimping myself cause of how slow this weapon is and what is offers. So now low and behold because it does slightly good in Zergs in WvW all of a sudden is needs to be toned down a bit. I think this change for Revs would be a turning point that a lot of people don't want to see. I am just distraught at the thought of this even happening.

    I don't think hammer rev will be completely in the gutter just with this nerf. Nevertheless, I get what you are saying. Punishing the one area Rev excelled in through no fault of its own (WvW or PvP wise) because of problems OTHER CLASSES and POWERCREEP brought is just beyond lazy. Rev only regained its backline hammer status because of SCOURGE CORRUPTS and WARRIOR WINDS OF DISENCHANTMENT. By the same merit, S/D thief sword 3 should be heavily nerfed because it only became good as a counter to the tanky PvP meta after PoF; and yet multiple patches later here we still are, with spammable sword 3 doing backstab levels of damage AND stealing boons lmao.

    I get that people complained about hammer rev a lot (some complaints came from PvP'ers who don't WvW) but these people simply didn't play WvW long enough to realise hammer damage was always at this level and was already (deservedly) nerfed shortly after HoT and yet it was never meta because it didn't do enough damage. Scourge corrupts was already nerfed along with warrior winds of disenchantment but scourge corrupt nerfs need to go FURTHER because corrupt levels are still off the charts compared to anything reaper/core necro can provide. Fix the core problems and you will naturally see hammer rev die.

    Also I hope the nerfs to hammer weren't a result of complaints in small scale/roaming cos that would be really kitten hilarious if true.

  • messiah.1908messiah.1908 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Hi folks! The Competitive team and the Skills & Balance team have been working together closely on a future balance release that focuses almost entirely on PvP and WvW skill splits. As part of this, we wanted to switch things up and approach this release similar to how we approached the PvP sigil changes we did a while back, when we released our first draft of the proposed changes.

    With this set of proposed changes, we'd like to get your thoughts and ideas on both our high level goals and how we're going about accomplishing them. You guys may bring up concerns or thoughts we didn't consider. While reviewing these changes, please consider them as a whole rather than focusing on individual classes.

    We're looking forward to a productive discussion!

    High Level Goals

    Reduce influence of passive traits. (PvP not WvW)

    • Passive skills make the game less skillful.
    • The prevalence of passives is a common competitive player complaint. (PvP only)

    Increase build diversity

    • By decreasing the power of some of the more dominant builds, we hope to give increased viability to builds that previously were pushed out by these dominant specs. We're also increasing power levels in some targeted areas that previously were underperforming.

    Reduce effectiveness of offensive instant cast skills/traits

    • Instant cast spells don't give players an opportunity to respond. While we don't want to remove combos utilizing instant cast abilities, we wanted to reduce the impact they have.

    General

    • Rune of Surging has been removed from the PvP build panel
    • Magi Amulet has been removed from the PvP build panel

    Revenant

    Skills

    • Coalescence of Ruin: Reduced the power coefficient of the second impact from 1.75 to 1.5 (-14%) in WvW only. Reduced the power coefficient of the third impact from 2.25 to 1.75 (-22%) in WvW only.
    • Razorclaw's Rage: Increased the Bleeding duration from 2 seconds to 4 seconds in PvP and WvW
    • Icerazor's Ire: Increased the Power coefficient from 3.7 to 4.6 (+24%) in PvP and WvW
    • Soothing Stone: Increased the number of conditions cleansed from 3 to 5 in PvP and WvW
    • Vengeful Hammers: Reduced the upkeep cost from 7 to 6 in PvP and WvW
    • Forced Engagement: Reduced the energy cost from 25 to 10. Increased the cooldown from 10 seconds to 20 seconds in PvP and WvW
    • Embrace the Darkness: Increased the attribute bonus from 10% to 15% in PvP and WvW
    • Banish Enchantments: Increased the number of boons removed from 2 to 3 in PvP and WvW
    • Pain Absorption: Reduced the energy cost from 35 to 30 in PvP and WvW

    Traits

    • Eye for an Eye: Increased the cooldown from 45 seconds to 90 seconds in PvP only
    • Versed in Stone: Increased the cooldown from 60 seconds to 90 seconds in PvP only
    • Soothing Bastion: Increased the cooldown from 25 seconds to 60 seconds in PvP only

    my thoughts:

    amulets:
    you delete magi?
    it has no power and no armor
    maybe cause you nerf bit the power dmg or condi dmg.
    i wish you could answer that

    i would suggest adding new amulet to pvp instead like mender but for condi dmg
    condition 1050
    healing 1050
    vitality 560
    precision 560

    why removing rune shocking aura?
    is it cause of its passiveness?
    there are lots more rune with passive abilities... not that i use it but i dont think its a must.

    revenant pvp

    how to increase build diversity ?
    hammer should be more practical - atm its too slow to use. every skill is easily avoidable . it doeast need dmg buff rather faster activation time. in wvw sure its nice in team fights but in pvp never been used. so please consider it in your thoughts.
    so maybe reduce activation time both in pvp and wvw and than split dmg between pvp (higher) and wvw (lower)

    renegade both in wvw and pvp the warband are easily killed.. can you make them immune to dmg ? can you make them proc with stability ? or can you make them harder to kill with more hp maybe?
    you basically make renegade non team fighter because his utilities are killed/cc in team fights

    razorclaw - nice change but no use as atm easily killed in wvw . also add 10% more dmg to allies so it can be used for direct dmg build buff
    maybe with new amulet above could be used in team fight for couple of second to buff team dmg.
    icerazor - nice change but again in team fight easily killed

    will renegade see use in pvp - no. unless warband will be harder to cc and killed. in wvw might so as back liner support or off fighting helper

    Soothing Stone - good direction for maybe more power tank builds. consider also staff changes like 3 cleanse also. but activation time must be 0.5sec
    Vengeful Hammers - nice change. could you check if the dmg reduction can be 33% especially versus condi dmg
    Forced Engagement - good change. consider taunt and slow for 3 sec duration in pvp.
    i would suggest also inspiring reinforcement increase dmg by 25%
    RotGD - decrease nrg to 30 in pvp ( i would love it to be like "cost 40 nrg but for every tick of dmg taken for 5 sec you gain 1 nrg back" so more self sustain)

    i think dwarf might see more use in pvp and wvw now

    Embrace the Darkness - nice change. maybe 200 flat and not percentage so even zero attribute can get buffed
    Banish Enchantments - will it also effect the trait?
    Pain Absorption - nice change

    will we see more condi rev in pvp and wvw ? dont think so as its too weak atm. maybe few renegade/mallyx tester but that's all.

    Eye for an Eye: Increased the cooldown from 45 seconds to 90 seconds in PvP only
    Versed in Stone: Increased the cooldown from 60 seconds to 90 seconds in PvP only
    Soothing Bastion: Increased the cooldown from 25 seconds to 60 seconds in PvP only

    too harsh increase. in pvp no one use soothing bastion as its root you and interrupt skill use
    versed in stone change is big nerf versus condi/break stun dmg as now wee need more 40 nrg to use during fight. so i would insist in decreasing the skill RotGD nrg to 30.
    Eye for an Eye - was that needed much? maybe change it to gain protection when you taunt a foe....

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 23, 2018

    @Gaile Gray.6029 said:

    Reduce effectiveness of offensive instant cast skills/traits

    • Instant cast spells don't give players an opportunity to respond. While we don't want to remove combos utilizing instant cast abilities, we wanted to reduce the impact they have.

    I feel like this is just lowering the skill floor.

    Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
    Please allow team queue with rewards again at our own discretion.
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  • AphoticEssance.7592AphoticEssance.7592 Member ✭✭
    edited February 23, 2018

    I have a hard enough time trying to get in larger groups with holo/engi.. and your going to nerf my burst by that much? Please reconsider or give us something that only engi can bring exclusively to larger groups.

  • SPEED OF SHADOWS for Necro
    Revert it or split it or something.

    Give base necro and reaper back the reduced CD on shroud.
    The reduced cool down has been part of the game from the beginning and without it core necro and reaper are unplayable.

  • ImperialWL.7138ImperialWL.7138 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 23, 2018

    @eley crey.2905 said:
    All the passive stuff needs to go from WvW too, preferably removed from the game all together.

    Meanwhile broken spellbreaker with -10% dmg reduction food and 10s endure pain every 60s says hello

  • You want better build diversity on ele? How about revert:
    -arcane fury change
    -how healing power works with everything tempest
    -Woven Stride obligatory water traits to remove conditions
    -healing power scaling on sword water 2 (not base healing)
    -any kind of condi nerf you did for years
    -tempest generally needs reworks to do something different then healing or more stuff for team as it's completely overshadowed by firebrands who can do much more then simply healing and spamming protection.

    and maybe SWORD SHOULD HAVE SOME REAL BUFFS?
    -sword skills range and animation speed
    -weak unravel that can't compete for 3th utility slot
    -weaver elite skill that it's inferior gravity well with buff that doesn't matter with HORRIBLE COOL-DOWN!
    -or generally give us way so when we cc something we can follow-up with something...it can be even auttoattacks...but still key 3th dps sword skills are denied thanks to internal cooldown WHEN REALLY NEED THEM.

    But really I would appreciate if Karl&friends would start their balance testing FROM DUELING ANY KIND OF PVP META BUILD...MAYBE THEY WOULD HAVE BETTER IDEA WHY WE WANT BUFFS ON SWORD NOT DAGGER!

This discussion has been closed.
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