Upcoming PvP and WvW balance splits!

@"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:Hey folks,

The Competitive team and the Skills & Balance team are working together on an upcoming skill split release. We've posted a list of our first draft of proposed changes. We'd love your feedback. Please try to keep the feedback to the original post so that we can view the feedback in one place!

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/29690/pvp-wvw-skill-split-release

Anet has posted in the WvW and PvP forums for feedback. Please check them out! Main feedbacks should be posted in the PvP forums for their consolidated viewing.We could discuss among ourselves here too before posting the good feedbacks up there.

Necromancer

Skills

• Garish Pillar: Increased the cooldown from 15 seconds to 20 seconds in PvP and WvW
• Desert Shroud: Increased the cooldown from 20 seconds to 30 seconds in PvP and WvW
• Ghastly Breach: Increased the cooldown from 75 seconds to 90 seconds in PvP and WvW
• Plague Signet: Increased the cooldown from 30 seconds to 40 seconds in PvP and WvW
• Trail of Anguish: Increased the cooldown from 25 seconds to 35 seconds in PvP and WvW
• Signet of Undeath: Reduced the cooldown from 150 seconds to 90 seconds in PvP and WvW
• Life Siphon: Reduced the cooldown from 12 seconds to 10 seconds in PvP and WvW
• Dark Pact: Reduced the cooldown from 25 seconds to 20 seconds in PvP and WvW
• Signet of Vampirism: Reduced the cooldown from 35 seconds to 30 seconds in PvP and WvW. Increased the base heal from 3960 to 4950 (+25%) in PvP and WvW
• Well of Blood: Increased the base heal from 5240 to 6026 (+15%) in PvP and WvW. Increased the heal per pulse from 280 to 490 (+75%) in PvP and WvW
• Spectral Grasp: Reduced the cooldown from 50 seconds to 35 seconds in PvP and WvW
• Blood is Power: Adjusted the Might granted from 10 stacks for 10 seconds to 15 stacks for 6 seconds in PvP and WvW
• Well of Suffering: Reduced the cooldown from 35 seconds to 30 seconds in PvP only. Increased the amount of Vulnerability applied per pulse from 2 stacks to 4 stacks in PvP only.
• Signet of the Locust: Increased the power coefficient from 0.65 to 1.0 (+54%) in PvP and WvW. Increased the base heal per hit from 970 to 1455 (+50%) in PvP and WvW

Traits

• Reaper's Protection: Increased the cooldown from 60 seconds to 90 seconds in PvP only
• Last Gasp: Increased the cooldown from 50 seconds to 75 seconds in PvP only

Translation: We don't want necromancer doing anything in these game modes anymore.

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:Translation: We don't want necromancer doing anything in these game modes anymore.

Except in PvP Condi Scourge is still / was still kinda insane.

@HardRider.2980 said:

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:Translation: We don't want necromancer doing anything in these game modes anymore.

Does this mean that in the future, pve necro will get some buffs since they are doing this split?

I hope so.

forget it. Won't be mean anymore.

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

@HardRider.2980 said:

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:Translation: We don't want necromancer doing anything in these game modes anymore.

I actually doubt that the changes would remove it from PvP. You must also consider that all of the other meta builds with the except of s/d thief are getting slammed aswell.

Besides it's getting harder and harder to take these "Scourge is dead" posts seriously. Literally every patch has people saying that the changes will kill Scourge in PvP and they are always wrong. People are just not realizing how well Scourge is cemented into PvP meta.

@Crinn.7864 said:

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

@HardRider.2980 said:

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:Translation: We don't want necromancer doing anything in these game modes anymore.

Are you telling me people dodge less or use less CC in higher ranks? I find that pretty hard to believe.

The proposed changes are going to make Scourge far easier to kill after its initial use of skills. The worst part is, ANet is nerfing everything around the problem instead of addressing the actual problem: Scourge covers too much area constantly. Scourge damage isn't out of line, and its surviability is on the lower side of PvP specs. The problem is the Shade skills covering the entire point.

I get that you want Reaper to be better than Scourge, Crinn, I really do. But Reaper is also getting nerfed with the proposed changes when it really doesn't need it.

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

@Crinn.7864 said:

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

@HardRider.2980 said:

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:Translation: We don't want necromancer doing anything in these game modes anymore.

Personally i'm glad i rerolled to ele.I'm sick of necro nerfs and these are nothing but nerfs 90% of them, and all they do is make necros easier to be punching bags.

@"Drarnor Kunoram.5180" said:Translation: We don't want necromancer doing anything in these game modes anymore.

I would have said that differently... Like:"We want necromancer to be at the same place in PvP/WvW and PvE."

Anyway, another set of horrible bandaid fix with the only good news being that nobody can complain that it's changes done for PvE.

@Crinn.7864 said:

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

@HardRider.2980 said:

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:Translation: We don't want necromancer doing anything in these game modes anymore.

S/D thief is also getting slammed; Pain response saw its cooldown get increased by two and a half times, and is a major reason people aren't running Daredevil for EA and can afford to run Crit Strikes, which can account for around 40% of its damage alone.

D/P got buffed for some unknown reason. They literally buffed skill-spam on D/P by like 25% on average.

On-topic, I did propose they effectively undo the VP/SoS/Onslaught nerfs for reaper.

@"Dadnir.5038" said:I would have said that differently... Like:"We want necromancer to be at the same place in PvP/WvW and PvE."

Or: We want the necromancer to be at the same place in PvP/WvW as it is in PvE

@Galmac.4680 said:

@"Dadnir.5038" said:I would have said that differently... Like:"We want necromancer to be at the same place in PvP/WvW and PvE."

That was what I aimed to say, yes.

No better: we want necro to fit its theme:

Death

-for your allies, because you have no good support-for yourself, because your dmg sux and you have almost no defensive skills

-for enemys?! -no i guess not. Or maybe yes. By rerolling necro into rev or ele

@Nimon.7840 said:No better: we want necro to fit its theme:

Death

-for your allies, because you have no good support-for yourself, because your dmg sux and you have almost no defensive skills

-for enemys?! -no i guess not. Or maybe yes. By rerolling necro into rev or ele

Meta in WvW : Guard / scourge / scourge / scourge / scourge / scourge / scourge / scourge / weaver / hammer rev / chrono ... repeat

As a WvW player im tired of Necro players. They are the best class in wvw since HoT launch and they still dont understand why they get nerfs.

All the balance patch is is some extra cd on f2 - f5 . Thats it.

You guys should feel lucky that Scourge will still be the best class in WvW even after all the nerfs.

Which should tell you how broken it is/was.

Oh and the only (soft) counter to scourge gets nerfed too.

Lucky Lucky Scourge player.

@EremiteAngel.9765 said:

@"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:Hey folks,

The Competitive team and the Skills & Balance team are working together on an upcoming skill split release. We've posted a list of our first draft of proposed changes. We'd love your feedback. Please try to keep the feedback to the original post so that we can view the feedback in one place!

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/29690/pvp-wvw-skill-split-release

Skills

• Garish Pillar: Increased the cooldown from 15 seconds to 20 seconds in PvP and WvW
• Desert Shroud: Increased the cooldown from 20 seconds to 30 seconds in PvP and WvW
• Ghastly Breach: Increased the cooldown from 75 seconds to 90 seconds in PvP and WvW

Ill be honest i dont care about scourge stuff not surprised they are just giving a larger portion of people a reason not to play it but im sure some still will.

• Plague Signet: Increased the cooldown from 30 seconds to 40 seconds in PvP and WvW
• Signet of Undeath: Reduced the cooldown from 150 seconds to 90 seconds in PvP and WvW
• Life Siphon: Reduced the cooldown from 12 seconds to 10 seconds in PvP and WvW
• Dark Pact: Reduced the cooldown from 25 seconds to 20 seconds in PvP and WvW
• Signet of Vampirism: Reduced the cooldown from 35 seconds to 30 seconds in PvP and WvW. Increased the base heal from 3960 to 4950 (+25%) in PvP and WvW
• Well of Blood: Increased the base heal from 5240 to 6026 (+15%) in PvP and WvW. Increased the heal per pulse from 280 to 490 (+75%) in PvP and WvW
• Spectral Grasp: Reduced the cooldown from 50 seconds to 35 seconds in PvP and WvW
• Blood is Power: Adjusted the Might granted from 10 stacks for 10 seconds to 15 stacks for 6 seconds in PvP and WvW
• Well of Suffering: Reduced the cooldown from 35 seconds to 30 seconds in PvP only. Increased the amount of Vulnerability applied per pulse from 2 stacks to 4 stacks in PvP only.
• Signet of the Locust: Increased the power coefficient from 0.65 to 1.0 (+54%) in PvP and WvW. Increased the base heal per hit from 970 to 1455 (+50%) in PvP and WvW

First off.Where are our other wells in this split?Well of Corruption eating 2 boons per pulse and Well of power now being an instant cast (remove the stability stack) Eats too conditions into boons pur pulse

SecondSome core changes are nice but they are mostly just number taps not really anything super interesting.1 thing that does bug me though. People dont use signets without the signet trait (outside of plague signet) And when you do take that trait you reduce your cd's on signets by a % based on shroud time. Why even bother to touch the cooldowns. Reaper likely wont use any signet other than plague and if you run core signet the amount of time you can spend in shroud some times makes the changes to the cd's pointless.

Traits

• Reaper's Protection: Increased the cooldown from 60 seconds to 90 seconds in PvP onlyThis is ridiculous this eff-ing trait was already garbo considering its in the deathline (out of the way of being used with any current build) and with a too high a cooldown now it just got higher without anything tapped on it wont even break you out of stun. Just even more of a reason not to use it now.

• Last Gasp: Increased the cooldown from 50 seconds to 75 seconds in PvP onlyI mean i guess but i dont see this trait making a diffference

much ado about nothing

people from different aspects of the game (hence different views) clashing into each other.

those changes open up options and possibilities for underused specs/professions to get closer (!) to the efficiency of the currently overstacked professions.there will be new(same) fotm specs, but they wont be as uber effective/abundant as they are at the moment - ideally.that is a damn good approach (yet very curious if it works out)just maybe i can play a role (!!) in the future rather than a specific elite-spec with a super narrow fotm build

Finally, a major split between game modes; if Arenanet can better balance WvW and PvP, maybe PvE can be changed for the better.

Necromancer has been a meme for so many unflattering things over the years that I wish it was deleted.

• Combo field balance between game modes
• Lack of finishers
• Poor defense scaling
• Debuffs critical for sustain in PvP are hard-nerfed in PvE end game
• Shroud transform mechanic
• Easy-mode MM
• Lack of damage modifiers

@Anchoku.8142 said:Finally, a major split between game modes; if Arenanet can better balance WvW and PvP, maybe PvE can be changed for the better.

Necromancer has been a meme for so many unflattering things over the years that I wish it was deleted.

• Combo field balance between game modes
• Lack of finishers
• Poor defense scaling
• Debuffs critical for sustain in PvP are hard-nerfed in PvE end game
• Shroud transform mechanic
• Easy-mode MM
• Lack of damage modifiers

I'd have added:

• Poor support
• self harm

To this list

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:

Meta in WvW : Guard / scourge / scourge / scourge / scourge / scourge / scourge / scourge / weaver / hammer rev / chrono ... repeat

As a WvW player im tired of Necro players. They are the best class in wvw since HoT launch and they still dont understand why they get nerfs.

All the balance patch is is some extra cd on f2 - f5 . Thats it.

You guys should feel lucky that Scourge will still be the best class in WvW even after all the nerfs.

Which should tell you how broken it is/was.

Oh and the only (soft) counter to scourge gets nerfed too.

Lucky Lucky Scourge player.

That isn't surprising. WvW are large scale fights for the most part. When you have large scale fights what should you logically bring? AoE. Lots of it. There will also be lots of support in the form of boons. What do you bring then? Something that can strip them off or better yet convert them into conditions. There you have it. I think before scourge, it was deathly chill reaper because it's also AoE plus ability to corrupt boons. In short, even if scourge didn't happen the most popular class in WvW would probably be the class who can best deliver AoEs. That's my opinion anyway. Haven't played WvW since PoF happened.

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:

@Nimon.7840 said:No better: we want necro to fit its theme:

Death

-for your allies, because you have no good support-for yourself, because your dmg sux and you have almost no defensive skills

-for enemys?! -no i guess not. Or maybe yes. By rerolling necro into rev or ele

core necro is worst class since release 2012, power reaper get terminated by anet 2 month after hot release, condi reaper get terminated 2 month after pof release, and scourge get terminated while the last 3 Balance Patches.so finally,core necro-> in every game mode is bullsh.reaper-> in every game mode is bullsh.scourge-> in pve, smalls Cale is bullshit

->in wvw large scale it will be ever OP because of endless AOE spamm.

as wvw Player I AM TIRED of ret. warriors and mesmers and thiefes with perma invul, evade, block, invis bullsh. that Need no skill to get played. i've never seen an invul necro, btw.

People in necro Forum just complain, that reaper and core necros could easily buffed for small scale and pve, but anet didnt do that.

@Zero.3871 said:

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:

@Nimon.7840 said:No better: we want necro to fit its theme:

Death

-for your allies, because you have no good support-for yourself, because your dmg sux and you have almost no defensive skills

-for enemys?! -no i guess not. Or maybe yes. By rerolling necro into rev or ele

Perma invuln thieves? with what build?

I pvped with teef and its not perma invuln.

Also warriors got nerfed so did everyone else.

Thieves got nerfed on sword/pistol.Eles got nerfed on weaver.Mesmers got some nerfs on mirage, and there is a delay on shattering images.

Warriors got nerfed to their abilities, including dagger which its chain damage was nerfed on 1.They also got nerfed to full counter with extra time to the cd added before it could be used again.

Holosmith also got nerfed in its tankyness

Necros are not the only ones being targetted right now.

@Axl.8924 said:

@Zero.3871 said:

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:

@Nimon.7840 said:No better: we want necro to fit its theme:

Death

-for your allies, because you have no good support-for yourself, because your dmg sux and you have almost no defensive skills

-for enemys?! -no i guess not. Or maybe yes. By rerolling necro into rev or ele

its not perma but it is very high when combined with the lack of cooldowns on weapons skills due to the profession mechanic, low cooldowns on utility, and the moblity a thief has to disengage and the burst potential with almost any weapon the sheer amount of evades (particularly with sword /dagger or sword pistol) makes up for more than enough sustain in comparison to just having more hp.

Mesmer was the one running around with perma invlun

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Zero.3871 said:

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:

@Nimon.7840 said:No better: we want necro to fit its theme:

Death

-for your allies, because you have no good support-for yourself, because your dmg sux and you have almost no defensive skills

-for enemys?! -no i guess not. Or maybe yes. By rerolling necro into rev or ele

Thats because thieves are about disengaging and running away and +1 a target and avoiding damage, its part of how their mechanic works.I can't speak more about it since i'm not some t1 pvp teef or anything, i'm a casual noob thief.I only played a bit with d/p and saw a video and know that running around and capping and decapping zones and +1 a target, because we are very squishy, so we make up for it in mobility.If you take away thief mobility, you don't have a thief class anymore, and you break it, so we need those evades to survive.

I don't know anything about mesmer pvp.I did a few times, but i was terrible because i didn't know what i was doing.

Eles can spew out tons and tons of stability and stuff like that, but they are quite squishy too.