On a scale of 1 - 5...

How would you rate the balance development's team's understanding of underlying balance problems and the necessary solutions to resolve them? (02/23 Quantifiable feedback following proposed adjustments to pvp/wvw split)

Lately they've made real efforts to adjust things and talk to the community and even as going as far as to put out a draft of changes, I'm happy with that, it shows that they do care as much as we do.

Some of it's good, the reduction of sustain from druid and firebrand is a great change, same with nerfing holo/spellbreaker/scourge damage.

On the other hand, it doesn't address the issues of FA ele and mesmer doing way too much damage. Especially mesmer. Not including Deadeye here because even if they have high damage, the risk-reward ratio is good and DE attacks are very avoidable. The changes also barely touch revenant, which needs a lot more help. And for crying out loud, stop the useless buffing of Renegade for pvp, it will never be good in this gamemode.

Didn't mean to comment.

The balance teams hands are tied. They can't just uproot every single skill and change the functionality of them. You would understand this is you'd been a long-term player.

Some of the adjustments I disagree with:

Passive traits promote passive gameplay, but increasing the cooldown to make it near useless is not the solution. It needs a mechanic change. (e.g. resurrect ally player, gain a charge, passive will activate only if there's a charge)

It's a 3.5 from me. Far better than their last few patches by a mile, but has the problem of "knowing what is OP, but not why it is OP" for some classes.

For instance with Scourge, they are trying really hard to nerf everything EXCEPT sand savant. The ability to cover the point as well as the radius also applying to themselves is always going to be a problem in conquest until they fix it.

Or with Mesmer, they are ignoring the fact that the recent clone management rework has made shatters busted. Gutting elusive mind is a good start, but good mesmer players don't even need it and can even get away with playing chrono. Their ability to now have unlimited clones to constantly spam instant cast unavoidable damage with has become a bigger problem than EM.

And then the Rev buffs don't fully touch on the main issue of poor condi removal for Herald and poor sustain for Renegade. Instead they seem focused on reducing energy costs and useless buffs to kalla. These will make Rev easier to play since energy management is a big wall for new players, but it won't make Rev much more viable.

I can’t express my feeling without insulting the GP

To be honest , was convinced at first , but now I doubt it's the balance team that had any say in creating overpowered specialisations, released the way they where.The release showed they knew exactly how to balance things to improve sales amongst the PvP crowd. :)

I have yet to witness a patch where they truly focused on major issues. Instead, they nerf what doesn't need nerfing or change what needn't necessarily be changed, like camera view.

There's been no significant nerf to condi power,no nerf to invulnerabilities,no nerf to warrior passive regen,nothing major about Dragonhunters,no nerf to Shatter Mesmers,no added power to Druid staff e.g. to make it more viable in combat,

instead:

added circles as tell to scourges that only worsen gameplay by significantly impacting computer performance in massive, crowded fights (5 - 10 FPS reported by many players),they plan to increase CA on Druids instead of lowering it and by that not only taking away their main purpose of being an effective healer but also taking away their only reliable weapon against this condi disaster of a meta,

in short,

absolutely nothing of significance that would actually reduce the frustration and making it what games are supposed to be - fun, relaxing, casual and rewarding.

Can I start a poll of players basic understand of game development -- especially in regards to ArenaNet???

The PVP team does NOT create / tweak / balance professions. They request changes and the professions team works on it if they are able (and agree).

Give 'em a break.

@pah.4931 said:Can I start a poll of players basic understand of game development -- especially in regards to ArenaNet???

The PVP team does NOT create / tweak / balance professions. They request changes and the professions team works on it if they are able (and agree).

Give 'em a break.

did the OP say the stinkin PVP team? No he did not did he? Try reading the OP's post again.

@Devilman.1532 said:

@"pah.4931" said:Can I start a poll of players basic understand of game development -- especially in regards to ArenaNet???

The PVP team does NOT create / tweak / balance professions. They request changes and the professions team works on it if they are able (and agree).

Give 'em a break.

But it's a moot point. The "PvP balance" isn't done by the PvP team. Kind of a dumb poll then, innit? You don't even know who to blame. You're just upset. And I honor your right to cry on forums if it'll make you feel better.

There is no "Balance Development" Team" at Anet. So I guess I made assumptions as to what the OP even meant. I can guarantee you no one in those offices has that phrase in their title. So what do you mean? Profession balance? Combat systems balance? PvP map balance? Matchmaking balance?

When one makes a super vague and inaccurate (and ostensibly biased) post, once cannot get upset when folks make assumptions.

Why not make the post: "On whole, how happy are you with the proposed PvP/WvW Splits" (1 - 5)??? I wonder.

@pah.4931 said:

@Devilman.1532 said:

@pah.4931 said:Can I start a poll of players basic understand of game development -- especially in regards to ArenaNet???

The PVP team does NOT create / tweak / balance professions. They request changes and the professions team works on it if they are able (and agree).

Give 'em a break.

How do you know any of this guy? Do you work there? I see you on here all the time just being contrary for the sake of being contrary and trying to make yourself look the smartest person in the room when you are far far from it. Seriously man. Get over yourself.

@"sephiroth.4217" said:Lately they've made real efforts to adjust things and talk to the community and even as going as far as to put out a draft of changes, I'm happy with that, it shows that they do care as much as we do.

No one said they don't care, just that they don't know how to do it.

I care a lot about being rich, but i'm poor AF.Like the saying says: "Hell is full of good intentions"

@pah.4931 said:Can I start a poll of players basic understand of game development -- especially in regards to ArenaNet???

The PVP team does NOT create / tweak / balance professions. They request changes and the professions team works on it if they are able (and agree).

Give 'em a break.

OP is talking about "Develpment team", didn't mention PvP team, just the game's development team, in regards to balance.> @pah.4931 said:

@Devilman.1532 said:

@pah.4931 said:Can I start a poll of players basic understand of game development -- especially in regards to ArenaNet???

The PVP team does NOT create / tweak / balance professions. They request changes and the professions team works on it if they are able (and agree).

Give 'em a break.

There is a Balance team... Or professions team. Deves mention that team frequently! You mentioned it before.Dude just admit that you didn't read the OP, you knee jerked in your attempt to kiss up to Arena Net (like they'd thank you for it), and failed miserably. Just take the loss, and don't insist on it, because anything you say after your first post is just burying you further.

@Devilman.1532 said:

@pah.4931 said:

@Devilman.1532 said:

@pah.4931 said:Can I start a poll of players basic understand of game development -- especially in regards to ArenaNet???

The PVP team does NOT create / tweak / balance professions. They request changes and the professions team works on it if they are able (and agree).

Give 'em a break.

Huh? I didn't realize you knew me so well...

Also, I know these things because 1) they've said the PvP Team requests changes from the Professions Team (can't find the quote, sorry) and 2) Common Sense.

"Balance" isn't just tuning numbers in a spreadsheet. There's a lot that goes into each and every system and how each system works together makes a bigger difference. If every map was a capture the flag map instead of conquest, for example, scourge wouldn't have been such a huge problem. So who is at fault with balancing? Not the mythical "balancing team" ... because here the problem is with the pvp system and the conquest only decision. Further, the original "Splits" post was pretty clear that it was an attempt to make adjustments on "easy" things to split, while about 80% of the comments were about completely changing the way abilities work (specifically not what this particular patch is about).

But if you think calling out angry whinging disguised as a poorly written and biased poll is being "contrarian" then OK.

@pah.4931 said:

@Devilman.1532 said:

@pah.4931 said:

@Devilman.1532 said:

@pah.4931 said:Can I start a poll of players basic understand of game development -- especially in regards to ArenaNet???

The PVP team does NOT create / tweak / balance professions. They request changes and the professions team works on it if they are able (and agree).

Give 'em a break.

LOL... you just proved my entire point. Anyhow kiddo enjoy screaming into the wind and jumping up and down going "LOOOOK AT MEEEEEEEEEEE". All you do is look like a fool.

@Devilman.1532 said:

@pah.4931 said:

@Devilman.1532 said:

@pah.4931 said:

@Devilman.1532 said:

@pah.4931 said:Can I start a poll of players basic understand of game development -- especially in regards to ArenaNet???

The PVP team does NOT create / tweak / balance professions. They request changes and the professions team works on it if they are able (and agree).

Give 'em a break.

Have a thumbs up. It was a great debate. You really got me thinking.

They have been pretty much horrible for most of this game's life. That being said the pvp splits coming look to be the best large scale balance changes ever. Excellent further nerfs to many troubling builds/abilities. I do wish some of the so called buffs were better though most were quite weak.

@ReaverKane.7598 said:

@"sephiroth.4217" said:Lately they've made real efforts to adjust things and talk to the community and even as going as far as to put out a draft of changes, I'm happy with that, it shows that they do care as much as we do.

@pah.4931 said:Can I start a poll of players basic understand of game development -- especially in regards to ArenaNet???

The PVP team does NOT create / tweak / balance professions. They request changes and the professions team works on it if they are able (and agree).

Give 'em a break.

@Devilman.1532 said:

@pah.4931 said:Can I start a poll of players basic understand of game development -- especially in regards to ArenaNet???

The PVP team does NOT create / tweak / balance professions. They request changes and the professions team works on it if they are able (and agree).

Give 'em a break.

Ok?

@Devilman.1532 said:

@"pah.4931" said:Can I start a poll of players basic understand of game development -- especially in regards to ArenaNet???

The PVP team does NOT create / tweak / balance professions. They request changes and the professions team works on it if they are able (and agree).

Give 'em a break.

Why stinkin?? Actually must be a pain for the pvp developing team, try to fix pvp with "tied hands" since they only have acces to QoL stuff and even so i imagine things needs to be aproved

@ReaverKane.7598 said:

@"sephiroth.4217" said:Lately they've made real efforts to adjust things and talk to the community and even as going as far as to put out a draft of changes, I'm happy with that, it shows that they do care as much as we do.

@pah.4931 said:Can I start a poll of players basic understand of game development -- especially in regards to ArenaNet???

The PVP team does NOT create / tweak / balance professions. They request changes and the professions team works on it if they are able (and agree).

Give 'em a break.

@Devilman.1532 said:

@pah.4931 said:Can I start a poll of players basic understand of game development -- especially in regards to ArenaNet???

The PVP team does NOT create / tweak / balance professions. They request changes and the professions team works on it if they are able (and agree).

Give 'em a break.

I don't think you understand how game development works. Or how to make unbiased polls. Or maybe even what I mean by "unbiased polls" ... but I'm not here to talk you down from the ledge. I'm here to speak to reason and common sense. If y'all want to pity party, have at it. I won't stop you. I pity party it up plenty while playing this game.

Voted 4. They tackle most issues (excluding mesmer again, for some reason) quite well. To truly renew pvp you need a major shakeup like this, and the powercreep is getting hit in the most remarkable fashion I've seen since release.

It's hard to tell if this will cause imbalance again, but I'm glad they're finally doing the split. Just need to build from there.

I predict Herald, the already powerful S/D Thief, FA ele, Soulbeast and the ever impervious Mesmer (any build) to become real threats.

@pah.4931 said:

@ReaverKane.7598 said:

@"sephiroth.4217" said:Lately they've made real efforts to adjust things and talk to the community and even as going as far as to put out a draft of changes, I'm happy with that, it shows that they do care as much as we do.

@pah.4931 said:Can I start a poll of players basic understand of game development -- especially in regards to ArenaNet???

The PVP team does NOT create / tweak / balance professions. They request changes and the professions team works on it if they are able (and agree).

Give 'em a break.

@Devilman.1532 said:

@pah.4931 said:Can I start a poll of players basic understand of game development -- especially in regards to ArenaNet???

The PVP team does NOT create / tweak / balance professions. They request changes and the professions team works on it if they are able (and agree).

Give 'em a break.

Well, the poll is pretty unbiased. I'm actually certified in two different fields that use satisfaction polls, and i'll tell you the gradient on that poll, is pretty much following the standard for this kind of opinion and satisfaction rating. So you couldn't be more wrong when you call the poll biased.And i do know a bit about game development, having actually participated in the development of a MMORPG and everything. To be accurate i participated in the localization for the international version of Florensia (a pirate MMORPG).

You didn't speak out of common sense or anything of such, you actually even contradicted yourself in your statements (first saying there's a Profession team not the PvP team that balances the game - this after no one had mentioned the PvP team, and later saying there is no "balance development" team. You're just unable to admit you were wrong, and honestly, it just makes you look bad.

But even though i actually have technical knowledge and experience about the fields you claimed i don't. I won't continue to talk you down from that ledge, so carry on making a fool out of yourself!

@ReaverKane.7598 said:

@pah.4931 said:

@ReaverKane.7598 said:

@"sephiroth.4217" said:Lately they've made real efforts to adjust things and talk to the community and even as going as far as to put out a draft of changes, I'm happy with that, it shows that they do care as much as we do.

@pah.4931 said:Can I start a poll of players basic understand of game development -- especially in regards to ArenaNet???

The PVP team does NOT create / tweak / balance professions. They request changes and the professions team works on it if they are able (and agree).

Give 'em a break.

@Devilman.1532 said:

@pah.4931 said:Can I start a poll of players basic understand of game development -- especially in regards to ArenaNet???

The PVP team does NOT create / tweak / balance professions. They request changes and the professions team works on it if they are able (and agree).

Give 'em a break.

The OP stated "balance development team" ... which doesn't exist (there's a Skills & Balance Team and there's a Competitive Team... more on that later). If you can prove such a team exists, I will admit I am wrong. So then, back to my original argument (which started because I got called out for making an assumption based on the OP's vague and inaccurate language).

Can you tell me if the "balance development team" here referenced in the PvP forums is in regards to the Competitive Team or the Skills & Balance Team (just using the two teams instead of bringing in any number of teams that can affect "balance" to keep it simpler for ya)? Because they are completely different departments, with different roles, goals, success metrics, KPIs, etc. And since there are two entirely different teams, that kind of matters on how one would answer this poll, right?

If the OP is meaning the Competitive Team in his/her unbiased (lol) poll, then I would answer that they are very aware of the issues. In fact, I would think they know WAY more than any of the people in this poll. I would also venture to guess that they would SHRED most of you in 1v1 in this game as well.

If the OP is meaning the Skills & Balancs Teams in the poll, then I would answer that they are pretty close to oblivious, since they seem to concept and design the class around flavor first and PvE second and PvP third. Here you probably have a few devs who PvP and many who don't...which is why they have a dedicated PvP team. Ta-da!

Since I couldn't divine what what the OP meant by the nebulous "Balance Development Team" ... I made the assumption he meant the Competitive Team (since this is the PvP forums and because the "Split Release" post was made on behalf of the "Competitive and Skills & Balance Teams") ... since that is the team that would be leading the changes for PvP and not the Skills & Balances Team. So I apologize for my lack of divination skills and assuming wrong.

As for the poll being biased. You're extremes are "Absolutely oblivious" versus "well aware" ... do you see a difference in that language? (let me guess, you're a linguist on the weekends, too!?) ... Ta da! Biased.

Ciao