Why though anet?

why do u always overnerf or overbuff classes? the goal is to have a healty pvp enviroment.

if you keep the changes as they currently are in the suggestions thread, war will simply become unviable AGAIN as in s1-5 and s7 - PoF. we had 3-4 seasons with war in the meta since HOT launch and now u want to simply destroy spellbreaker and make it drop out of the meta. Why tho?

dont get me wrong some of the nerfs are justified but you are legit nerfing every single aspect about spellbreakerauto attackdagger 2dagger 3dagger f1full counterdefy painlast standbreak enchantmentsfeatherfood grace

having 2 secs of immunity on 90 secs cd is a joke and not worth as a trait. stone signet gives 3 secs of immunity on a 40 secs cd. see the difference?auto attack on dagger is already weak. 800-1200 auto attack hits while thief auto attacks hit faster AND stronger. 2-4k aa on thief btwincreasing last stand to 90 secs leaves warrior with almost NO stab unless u drop a utility and run active stab. but cmon 4 secs stab on 90 secs cd is a joke. every other class that has access to stab has waaay better access.strength of the pack 10 stacks for 10 secs on a shorter CD.firebrand has perma stab...even scourge has a better source of stab with 6 secs stab on a 25 secs cd also removing boons and damaging foes.

s/d thieves and mesmers are going to controle pvp after those changes if u dont do anything about it.

I think that Anet is trying to nerf condi right now.I think the outcry from necros and some cries from mesmers might have reverberated and created a echo effect, but i dunno.

I think they are on the right path in nerfing condi cleanses cds so they can't be spammed, and try to nerf ccs and stuns and insta kill power damage.I don't know how hard power warriors hit with dagger, since i don't have plane of fire, and i don't play warrior.I think that nerfing in pvp damage so it isn't instant, and making it more strategic to land ccs and cleanses is a good thing for this game.

@Axl.8924 said:I think that Anet is trying to nerf condi right now.I think the outcry from necros and some cries from mesmers might have reverberated and created a echo effect, but i dunno.

I think they are on the right path in nerfing condi cleanses cds so they can't be spammed, and try to nerf ccs and stuns and insta kill power damage.I don't know how hard power warriors hit with dagger, since i don't have plane of fire, and i don't play warrior.I think that nerfing in pvp damage so it isn't instant, and making it more strategic to land ccs and cleanses is a good thing for this game.

agree but they are overnerfing it. warrior hits like 800-1200 +/- w dagger auto attack on a golem

@skeletonman.5348 said:

@Axl.8924 said:I think that Anet is trying to nerf condi right now.I think the outcry from necros and some cries from mesmers might have reverberated and created a echo effect, but i dunno.

I think they are on the right path in nerfing condi cleanses cds so they can't be spammed, and try to nerf ccs and stuns and insta kill power damage.I don't know how hard power warriors hit with dagger, since i don't have plane of fire, and i don't play warrior.I think that nerfing in pvp damage so it isn't instant, and making it more strategic to land ccs and cleanses is a good thing for this game.

I can't help you then i have no idea never played warrior.What you could try is joining a warrior thread and getting people with as many likes to agree on changes mechanics with number changes and voice their opinions, like the way i asked revenants even though i never played, i titled:What changes you would do for your class and ask them stuff regarding balance dps and mechanics of their class and how to improve.Maybe One of staff members will answer i dunno.

ANet is using the "Smiter's Boon" approach on the CC break and immunity traits. For those unfamiliar, it means making the skill in PvP so bad that it would never be useable.

Note to the OP: signet of stone is a skill which the user must activate. You're comparing it to the automatic trait version. Compare the trait versions with each other and the skill versions with each other.

@"Exedore.6320" said:ANet is using the "Smiter's Boon" approach on the CC break and immunity traits. For those unfamiliar, it means making the skill in PvP so bad that it would never be useable.

Note to the OP: signet of stone is a skill which the user must activate. You're comparing it to the automatic trait version. Compare the trait versions with each other and the skill versions with each other.

2 secs immuniy on 60 secs cd vs. 3 secs immunity on 40 secs cooldown (comparing the active versions)1 sec per 30 secs cd vs 1 sec per 13 sec cd

2 sec immunity on 90 sec cd vs 2.5 secs immunity on 70 secs cd. (comparing passive)1 sec immunity on 45 per 45 secs cd vs. 1 sec immunity per 28 secs cd

druids active and passive skill are both incredibly stronger.

@skeletonman.5348 said:why do u always overnerf or overbuff classes? the goal is to have a healty pvp enviroment.

if you keep the changes as they currently are in the suggestions thread, war will simply become unviable AGAIN as in s1-5 and s7 - PoF. we had 3-4 seasons with war in the meta since HOT launch and now u want to simply destroy spellbreaker and make it drop out of the meta. Why tho?

dont get me wrong some of the nerfs are justified but you are legit nerfing every single aspect about spellbreakerauto attackdagger 2dagger 3dagger f1full counterdefy painlast standbreak enchantmentsfeatherfood grace

having 2 secs of immunity on 90 secs cd is a joke and not worth as a trait. stone signet gives 3 secs of immunity on a 40 secs cd. see the difference?auto attack on dagger is already weak. 800-1200 auto attack hits while thief auto attacks hit faster AND stronger. 2-4k aa on thief btwincreasing last stand to 90 secs leaves warrior with almost NO stab unless u drop a utility and run active stab. but cmon 4 secs stab on 90 secs cd is a joke. every other class that has access to stab has waaay better access.strength of the pack 10 stacks for 10 secs on a shorter CD.firebrand has perma stab...even scourge has a better source of stab with 6 secs stab on a 25 secs cd also removing boons and damaging foes.

s/d thieves and mesmers are going to controle pvp after those changes if u dont do anything about it.

Rangers/Druids/Soul Beasts don't have a shield with reflect on block if traited and FC. See the difference?Not even talking about the amount of weapons with more reliable CC.Why everyone compares only a portion (single trait/skill) of a profession with other professions? That does NOT give a clear picture of your professions state. If devs will listen to the complaints and do all the stuff that players cry about, we will have 9 absolutely same professions. Do you want that? I hope not.

@FyzE.3472 said:

@skeletonman.5348 said:why do u always overnerf or overbuff classes? the goal is to have a healty pvp enviroment.

if you keep the changes as they currently are in the suggestions thread, war will simply become unviable AGAIN as in s1-5 and s7 - PoF. we had 3-4 seasons with war in the meta since HOT launch and now u want to simply destroy spellbreaker and make it drop out of the meta. Why tho?

dont get me wrong some of the nerfs are justified but you are legit nerfing every single aspect about spellbreakerauto attackdagger 2dagger 3dagger f1full counterdefy painlast standbreak enchantmentsfeatherfood grace

having 2 secs of immunity on 90 secs cd is a joke and not worth as a trait.

stone signet gives 3 secs of immunity on a 40 secs cd. see the difference?

auto attack on dagger is already weak. 800-1200 auto attack hits while thief auto attacks hit faster AND stronger. 2-4k aa on thief btwincreasing last stand to 90 secs leaves warrior with almost NO stab unless u drop a utility and run active stab. but cmon 4 secs stab on 90 secs cd is a joke. every other class that has access to stab has waaay better access.strength of the pack 10 stacks for 10 secs on a shorter CD.firebrand has perma stab...even scourge has a better source of stab with 6 secs stab on a 25 secs cd also removing boons and damaging foes.

s/d thieves and mesmers are going to controle pvp after those changes if u dont do anything about it.

Rangers/Druids/Soul Beasts don't have a shield with reflect on block if traited and FC. See the difference?Not even talking about the amount of weapons with more reliable CC.Why everyone compares only a portion (single trait/skill) of a profession with other professions? That does NOT give a clear picture of your professions state. If devs will listen to the complaints and do all the stuff that players cry about, we will have 9 absolutely same professions. Do you want that? I hope not.

god damit...

im comparing the traits because they are similar. you cannot compare shield block on war with druid..Does war have a waterfield that absorbs projectiles?Does war have a celstial avatar form that heals u from 40 to 100 in 3 secs?Does war have stelath stacking?Does war have a 15 condi removal stunn break skill with superspeed and stealth on top?Does war have a solar beam that dodges while u travel 1200 units away and heals u on top of all?Does war have a pet that knocks the enemies down every couple of seconds and does insane dmg?

see what i did there? its stupid to compare warriors block with rangers.... OFC every class has different mechanics. BUT the signet of stone and endure pain mechanic is actually the same for both classes.

"having 2 secs of immunity on 90 secs cd is a joke and not worth as a trait. stone signet gives 3 secs of immunity on a 40 secs cd. see the difference?" The difference is that one is a trait and one takes up a utility slot. Our 2 second "immunity" is on a 30 second CD and it breaks stuns.

What dagger AA chain needs is a bonus against boonless foes. Also, it's a pretty fast AA, so it shouldn't hit hard. Yeah, I know, "it doesn't hit hard already". Good! I don't like the damage nerfs either, but now they can add some utility to it that isn't shitty might stacking.

Full Counter still hits way too hard for an attack that does just about everything. I'd rather see a utility nerf than a damage nerf though.

@skeletonman.5348 said:

@FyzE.3472 said:

@skeletonman.5348 said:why do u always overnerf or overbuff classes? the goal is to have a healty pvp enviroment.

if you keep the changes as they currently are in the suggestions thread, war will simply become unviable AGAIN as in s1-5 and s7 - PoF. we had 3-4 seasons with war in the meta since HOT launch and now u want to simply destroy spellbreaker and make it drop out of the meta. Why tho?

dont get me wrong some of the nerfs are justified but you are legit nerfing every single aspect about spellbreakerauto attackdagger 2dagger 3dagger f1full counterdefy painlast standbreak enchantmentsfeatherfood grace

having 2 secs of immunity on 90 secs cd is a joke and not worth as a trait.

stone signet gives 3 secs of immunity on a 40 secs cd. see the difference?

auto attack on dagger is already weak. 800-1200 auto attack hits while thief auto attacks hit faster AND stronger. 2-4k aa on thief btwincreasing last stand to 90 secs leaves warrior with almost NO stab unless u drop a utility and run active stab. but cmon 4 secs stab on 90 secs cd is a joke. every other class that has access to stab has waaay better access.strength of the pack 10 stacks for 10 secs on a shorter CD.firebrand has perma stab...even scourge has a better source of stab with 6 secs stab on a 25 secs cd also removing boons and damaging foes.

s/d thieves and mesmers are going to controle pvp after those changes if u dont do anything about it.

Rangers/Druids/Soul Beasts don't have a shield with reflect on block if traited and FC. See the difference?Not even talking about the amount of weapons with more reliable CC.Why everyone compares only a portion (single trait/skill) of a profession with other professions? That does NOT give a clear picture of your professions state. If devs will listen to the complaints and do all the stuff that players cry about, we will have 9 absolutely same professions. Do you want that? I hope not.

Great! So you do admit that professions must be different. So may be, just maybe if rangers are different from warriors, that was in mind of the developers when they have decided that one skill should have different duration and CD? Maybe? My point is: have a bigger picture AND do not say that should be the same as . Otherwise you can just demand stunbreak on dodge because mesmers have it! And warriors have dodge too.

@skeletonman.5348 said:

Does war have a celstial avatar form that heals u from 40 to 100 in 3 secs?They do. it's called their heal when taking spellbreaker trait. you're welcome.

@FyzE.3472 said:

@skeletonman.5348 said:

@FyzE.3472 said:

@skeletonman.5348 said:why do u always overnerf or overbuff classes? the goal is to have a healty pvp enviroment.

if you keep the changes as they currently are in the suggestions thread, war will simply become unviable AGAIN as in s1-5 and s7 - PoF. we had 3-4 seasons with war in the meta since HOT launch and now u want to simply destroy spellbreaker and make it drop out of the meta. Why tho?

dont get me wrong some of the nerfs are justified but you are legit nerfing every single aspect about spellbreakerauto attackdagger 2dagger 3dagger f1full counterdefy painlast standbreak enchantmentsfeatherfood grace

having 2 secs of immunity on 90 secs cd is a joke and not worth as a trait.

stone signet gives 3 secs of immunity on a 40 secs cd. see the difference?

auto attack on dagger is already weak. 800-1200 auto attack hits while thief auto attacks hit faster AND stronger. 2-4k aa on thief btwincreasing last stand to 90 secs leaves warrior with almost NO stab unless u drop a utility and run active stab. but cmon 4 secs stab on 90 secs cd is a joke. every other class that has access to stab has waaay better access.strength of the pack 10 stacks for 10 secs on a shorter CD.firebrand has perma stab...even scourge has a better source of stab with 6 secs stab on a 25 secs cd also removing boons and damaging foes.

s/d thieves and mesmers are going to controle pvp after those changes if u dont do anything about it.

Rangers/Druids/Soul Beasts don't have a shield with reflect on block if traited and FC. See the difference?Not even talking about the amount of weapons with more reliable CC.Why everyone compares only a portion (single trait/skill) of a profession with other professions? That does NOT give a clear picture of your professions state. If devs will listen to the complaints and do all the stuff that players cry about, we will have 9 absolutely same professions. Do you want that? I hope not.

90 secs cd for a 2 sec immunity is a joke nevertheless tho.Professions are different yeah but as he said in terms of stone signet and endure pain its the same mechanic. Therefore i'd say its compareable.

@skeletonman.5348 said:why do u always overnerf or overbuff classes? the goal is to have a healty pvp enviroment.

if you keep the changes as they currently are in the suggestions thread, war will simply become unviable AGAIN as in s1-5 and s7 - PoF. we had 3-4 seasons with war in the meta since HOT launch and now u want to simply destroy spellbreaker and make it drop out of the meta. Why tho?

War was god tier for a few seasons starting with season 3 and was even on the winning team of the last GW2 lan event, what are you smoking? Even core war was really strong and kinda meta just before PoF and was the only hardcounter to an even better Warrior spec, Spellbreaker.

War's been really strong for at least 7 seasons but more like 8.

Passive auto proc are a joke first ! And i'm glad they FINALLY try to remove the OPness of these things !

FOr now while facing a warrior , I tried to "waste a cc" as an opener before engaging just to make the last stance procs. But it still has the double invul (actiive + passive) so it's still not easy ! then dagger will be nerf ... okay that's sad ... but remember axe got buffed (not sure if it was changed in pvp too tho ... maybe i'm wrong)

My point is : less passive is way more healthy for the game AND things will always change in the pvp meta ... one good build won't probably good tomorrow ... A lot of builds are viable cause others that counter it aren't ...

Some classes already got out of the meta for a long time (AKA revenant now and ele back in the D/D nerf days)

@witcher.3197 said:

@"skeletonman.5348" said:why do u always overnerf or overbuff classes? the goal is to have a healty pvp enviroment.

if you keep the changes as they currently are in the suggestions thread, war will simply become unviable AGAIN as in s1-5 and s7 - PoF. we had 3-4 seasons with war in the meta since HOT launch and now u want to simply destroy spellbreaker and make it drop out of the meta. Why tho?

sry but thats just wrong. war was Not used at ALL in the old pvp system(s1-s4). Do u not remember how nobody wanted a thief or war on HoT release? lol!in season 5 condi war was meta and in s5 we had a meta with power and condi war sort of equally strong.

after season 6, they nerfed headbutt, arcing slice, adrenal health gain, shield bash etc. (May 16, 2017) and from that moment on almost a year ago war dropped out of the meta. Feel free to check out the patch notes btw.

Then later on August 8 , 2017 they buffed the strength line for warrior which made core warrior viable. It yet has not been meta it was fairly strong nevertheless tho. This is basically the patch where ppl started playing core war a lot.

So in fact war was meta in s5 and s6, and since PoF which means season 9 and 10. Out of those season war has only been God Tier in s9 with spellbreaker before the nerfs.

In case u dont believe me, go to youtube and have a look at the gw2 proleague vids.pro league seasonn 1 finals (around s3)

all u see is mesmer and rev stacking lol.... no warriors

@"Nath Forge Tempete.1645" said:Passive auto proc are a joke first ! And i'm glad they FINALLY try to remove the OPness of these things !

FOr now while facing a warrior , I tried to "waste a cc" as an opener before engaging just to make the last stance procs. But it still has the double invul (actiive + passive) so it's still not easy ! then dagger will be nerf ... okay that's sad ... but remember axe got buffed (not sure if it was changed in pvp too tho ... maybe i'm wrong)

My point is : less passive is way more healthy for the game AND things will always change in the pvp meta ... one good build won't probably good tomorrow ... A lot of builds are viable cause others that counter it aren't ...

Some classes already got out of the meta for a long time (AKA revenant now and ele back in the D/D nerf days)

you sir did not quite get my post. im not complaining about nerfs of passives.

Its the fact anet nerfs every single aspect about spellbreaker. the dagger auto, dagger 2 ,3 , the burst skills the utilities and traits.

i can totally live with nerfed passives, but i dont get the point of nerfing every little skill u can possibily nerf. why would u nerf 7 out of 7 spellbreaker skills.Not holo Nor druid is getting a nerf one every single skill and those 2 classes are fairly strong as well.

@witcher.3197 said:

@skeletonman.5348 said:why do u always overnerf or overbuff classes? the goal is to have a healty pvp enviroment.

if you keep the changes as they currently are in the suggestions thread, war will simply become unviable AGAIN as in s1-5 and s7 - PoF. we had 3-4 seasons with war in the meta since HOT launch and now u want to simply destroy spellbreaker and make it drop out of the meta. Why tho?

Thats actually not true. War was not Meta in s1-s3 for sure. Maybe s4 not sure there though. s5 and s6 for sure and then they dropped out of the meta due to balance changes. War wasnt meta from that point on till PoF release with spellbreaker elite. so in fact war was meta barely half of the time while classes like druid, mesmer, engi and necro have permanently been in the meta since s1.

@skeletonman.5348 said:

@"Nath Forge Tempete.1645" said:Passive auto proc are a joke first ! And i'm glad they FINALLY try to remove the OPness of these things !

FOr now while facing a warrior , I tried to "waste a cc" as an opener before engaging just to make the last stance procs. But it still has the double invul (actiive + passive) so it's still not easy ! then dagger will be nerf ... okay that's sad ... but remember axe got buffed (not sure if it was changed in pvp too tho ... maybe i'm wrong)

My point is : less passive is way more healthy for the game AND things will always change in the pvp meta ... one good build won't probably good tomorrow ... A lot of builds are viable cause others that counter it aren't ...

Some classes already got out of the meta for a long time (AKA revenant now and ele back in the D/D nerf days)

My point was warrior seemed pretty unfaire cause of a lot of passive ! but remember Spellbreaker is a whole new aspect of warrior and needs more time to tweekFor me it's normal that every skills has to be touched ! it's maybe sad that all SB skills need to be toned down but hey we are'nt not better than the devs ! they do some things wrong but some are really needed (except karl .... karl has some issue with ele tho)

I want rifle warrior back. Dumb spell-breaker made my core traits and utilities nerfed. Now that it’s nerfed maybe they can restore them.

@skeletonman.5348 said:why do u always overnerf or overbuff classes? the goal is to have a healty pvp enviroment.

if you keep the changes as they currently are in the suggestions thread, war will simply become unviable AGAIN as in s1-5 and s7 - PoF. we had 3-4 seasons with war in the meta since HOT launch and now u want to simply destroy spellbreaker and make it drop out of the meta. Why tho?

dont get me wrong some of the nerfs are justified but you are legit nerfing every single aspect about spellbreakerauto attackdagger 2dagger 3dagger f1full counterdefy painlast standbreak enchantmentsfeatherfood grace

having 2 secs of immunity on 90 secs cd is a joke and not worth as a trait. stone signet gives 3 secs of immunity on a 40 secs cd. see the difference?auto attack on dagger is already weak. 800-1200 auto attack hits while thief auto attacks hit faster AND stronger. 2-4k aa on thief btwincreasing last stand to 90 secs leaves warrior with almost NO stab unless u drop a utility and run active stab. but cmon 4 secs stab on 90 secs cd is a joke. every other class that has access to stab has waaay better access.strength of the pack 10 stacks for 10 secs on a shorter CD.firebrand has perma stab...even scourge has a better source of stab with 6 secs stab on a 25 secs cd also removing boons and damaging foes.

s/d thieves and mesmers are going to controle pvp after those changes if u dont do anything about it.

I swear on my life...I can't remember the last time I saw a warrior actively dodging to avoid incoming dmg, I'd say over 90% of warriors I currently meet will keep walking brazenly regardless of what you throw at them...never dodging...confident that their passive will allow any kind of mistake

@skeletonman.5348 said:

having 2 secs of immunity on 90 secs cd is a joke and not worth as a trait. stone signet gives 3 secs of immunity on a 40 secs cd. see the difference?Defy Pain is in the Defense traitline which Warriors have always, and will always run. Stoneform is in Marksman which no Druids ever ran or will ever run. See the difference?

SB was a god tier duelist compared to anything pre PoF, they’re finally walking the right path to reduce powercreep a little, the changes are more than welcome to me.Also this might kill sb for a short period of time, but I definetly prefer this than insignificant changes that would keep it all the same but more annoying to play as.

I think they should’ve gave berserker something though. I’d make the bursts count for two (3 was too strong, nerfed to 1 gutted the spec with all of the other nerfs).

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@"skeletonman.5348" said:why do u always overnerf or overbuff classes? the goal is to have a healty pvp enviroment.

if you keep the changes as they currently are in the suggestions thread, war will simply become unviable AGAIN as in s1-5 and s7 - PoF. we had 3-4 seasons with war in the meta since HOT launch and now u want to simply destroy spellbreaker and make it drop out of the meta. Why tho?

dont get me wrong some of the nerfs are justified but you are legit nerfing every single aspect about spellbreakerauto attackdagger 2dagger 3dagger f1full counterdefy painlast standbreak enchantmentsfeatherfood grace

having 2 secs of immunity on 90 secs cd is a joke and not worth as a trait. stone signet gives 3 secs of immunity on a 40 secs cd. see the difference?auto attack on dagger is already weak. 800-1200 auto attack hits while thief auto attacks hit faster AND stronger. 2-4k aa on thief btwincreasing last stand to 90 secs leaves warrior with almost NO stab unless u drop a utility and run active stab. but cmon 4 secs stab on 90 secs cd is a joke. every other class that has access to stab has waaay better access.strength of the pack 10 stacks for 10 secs on a shorter CD.firebrand has perma stab...even scourge has a better source of stab with 6 secs stab on a 25 secs cd also removing boons and damaging foes.

s/d thieves and mesmers are going to controle pvp after those changes if u dont do anything about it.

Sounds ridiculous, but this is actually fairly accurate. Just about the only "dodging" I ever see a warrior do is GS3.

Everyone loves comparing themselves to thief for some reason.

Thief has no immunities, almost no CC and it doesn't take 30 seconds to kill one in a 1v2.

Spellbreaker will still be fine. You'll just be forced to take more offensive traits / amulets to do the damage you previously did with tanky stuff like Demolisher. Or you can even run Berserker if you want more damage, seeing how other power, condi and sustain builds are seeing nerfs, it might become a viable alternative.

@BeLZedaR.4790 said:SB was a god tier duelist compared to anything pre PoF, they’re finally walking the right path to reduce powercreep a little, the changes are more than welcome to me.Also this might kill sb for a short period of time, but I definetly prefer this than insignificant changes that would keep it all the same but more annoying to play as.

I think they should’ve gave berserker something though. I’d make the bursts count for two (3 was too strong, nerfed to 1 gutted the spec with all of the other nerfs).

war was god tier post-POF not Pre-Pof. it was god after launch but got tuned down quickly.i wouldnt mind if sb drops out of the meta for 1 season. But i dont want it to end up like rev.... also war has been unviable for a very long time. s1-s4 and After the Berserker nerfs till Spellbreaker.

and yes 3 stacks adrenal health was too strong for berserker BEFORE PoF. you can not compare builds Pre Pof with builds now.

example: scrapper was very viable before PoF. Now, scrapper is not viable anymore. Just because 3 stacks berserker was too strong before PoF i wouldnt say its definetly too strong nowadays. Also, not only the adrenal health but also arc divider, mace, headbutt and shieldbash got nerfed additonally.