Suggested nerfs to druid are simply not enough

Not enough...simply not enough, you're nerfing core ranger/soulbeast way more than druid , you're going the wrong way. Your proposed changes won't do anything to that build, merely a slap on the wrist :

-They will still have complete condi removal-They will still be able to stealth/run at will

You just added a 5s CD to avatar...while nerfing the dmg across the board, you're about to make things 10x worst than now , you didn't address the main issues : Celestial avatar - Druidic Clarity and let's not forget Ancient seed. At this point explain me why did you even bother with soulbeast, it does absolutely nothing better, has less sustain and utility...the time wasted on soulbeast would have been better spent on a "stow pet" feature seen as you adamantly want to keep druid as best duellist in the game...great job

All i can say is since the meta changed drastically from condi to power again it's been a lot harder to sustain as a Druid than before.Soulbeast, even with less sustain, is a lot more viable now (since you don't need insta cleansing against condi's) and obviously have A LOT more damage.That been said i think the nerfs/ buffs in this class was well played. In fact i believe all the last patches, specially the last one, was really in the right direction.Best duelist in the game is Spellbreaker, more than ever.

what? both the changes to CA and signet are great, they will have to wait 5 seconds more for CA and they will not longer have immunity from dps for 6s only 3s and that's huuuge.

I’ve played LB Druid quite a lot this season. CA nerf will be hard to deal with, but I actually really like the SoS buff.

@"Elxdark.9702" said:what? both the changes to CA and signet are great, they will have to wait 5 seconds more for CA and they will not longer have immunity from dps for 6s only 3s and that's huuuge.

The signet change is fantastic. The CA changes aren't. 5 seconds is honestly nothing.

Celestial Avatar is inherently too strong. 4/5 skills can heal. Increasing the window between uses doesn't affect the strength of the abilities. They need to remove the healing from CA completely except for the water field on 4 and Lunar Impact. This is the only way to stop Druid from sustaining through everything.

Also, good Druids don't generally use CA off cooldown, so the "nerf" isn't as big as many people are thinking. Increasing the cooldown further than 20 seconds would be ridiculous.

Anet needs to cut the healing, reduce the cooldown on CA to 10 seconds, and nerf Druidic Clarity and Celestial Shadow.

This is coming from a ranger main.

@"Malafaia.8903" said:All i can say is since the meta changed drastically from condi to power again it's been a lot harder to sustain as a Druid than before.Soulbeast, even with less sustain, is a lot more viable now (since you don't need insta cleansing against condi's) and obviously have A LOT more damage.That been said i think the nerfs/ buffs in this class was well played. In fact i believe all the last patches, specially the last one, was really in the right direction.Best duelist in the game is Spellbreaker, more than ever.

Soulbeast and druids are trying to compete for the same role and obviously druid will come on top because it's both healer and duellist at the same time, they should make druid an actual healer/support and soulbeast a proper duellist, right now it's a core ranger with a stow pet "elite feature"

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@"Malafaia.8903" said:All i can say is since the meta changed drastically from condi to power again it's been a lot harder to sustain as a Druid than before.Soulbeast, even with less sustain, is a lot more viable now (since you don't need insta cleansing against condi's) and obviously have A LOT more damage.That been said i think the nerfs/ buffs in this class was well played. In fact i believe all the last patches, specially the last one, was really in the right direction.Best duelist in the game is Spellbreaker, more than ever.

You're obviously comparing a Power Druid in this statement, and this build can't heal.

Not that I love these changes, but it might be more insightful to actually wait, see, and test these changes before you come here and complain that they're not enough. It might make your opinion a little more legitimate.

Just something to consider.

Let's just see what happens before rushing to make huge sweeping gamewide changes to druid. Though I would actually prefer it if CA 1 skill did damage rather than the healing it does now.

And to be fair, the signet nerf is needed, there's no reason why rangers should have a souped up version of Endure Pain. Other than that I see no way how these changes affect Soulbeast or Core. The Rugged Growth nerf is in practice Druid only, as the other 2 don't use Healing Power. Refined Toxins and Protective Ward changes are a bit iffy though.

You guys don’t realize that cutting SoS’s cooldown in half is not a nerf? I guarantee you, as frustrating as 6sec may be on your end, Druids very rarely need more than a few seconds, and now they have it twice as often. Not to mention the reduced CD on the signet’s passive.

I agree, they aint hitting the source of the problem, which is the traits that make CA completely broken...full condi cleanse, stunbreak, AoE Stealth and Superspeed is way to much...they must nerf those things and buff CA skills or glyphs so Druid can compete on the support role with Firebrand.

I dont see how full condi clear is a problem with so much condi spam. You use full condi clear and a second later you have the full bar of condis on you again. If anything the avatar should make the druid immune vs condis while avatar is active

For those saying to wait and see how these changes play out before complaining:

Anet asked for feedback. Complaints can be feedback. His feedback is that he doesn't think these changes will do anything to help balance Druid. And I agree with him. Druid will be just fine after this patch. As Shadowpass said, they need to do something about DC and CS. Bringing back 10 sec CAF CD would fine if they didn't have the stunbreak/full cleanse and stealth/superspeed. Anet can figure out ways to give Druid other ways to cleanse and break stuns. I think it would be great if CAF wasn't about healing, and instead provided other utilities, like more cleansing, a stun break etc. Even some more damage would be ok because CAF is a good tell that heavy damage is on the way, be ready! On the other hand though, Druid already does plenty of damage outside of CAF for how much healing they get from Troll Unguent and whatnot, which they can't nerf because it'll affect base ranger too much. I think in the end, what's needed for Druid is more counterplay. The constant healing, CCs, stealthing and evading just don't give enough windows to attack.

Reworking DC and CS and then giving Druid other sources of cleansing/stun breaking would be the best start. But at the moment, they're starting with a CAF CD increase and a fix to Signet of Stone. So Druid will definitely still be OP, just a tad less so.

@"Arheundel.6451" said:Not enough...simply not enough, you're nerfing core ranger/soulbeast way more than druid , you're going the wrong way. Your proposed changes won't do anything to that build, merely a slap on the wrist :

-They will still have complete condi removal-They will still be able to stealth/run at will

You just added a 5s CD to avatar...while nerfing the dmg across the board, you're about to make things 10x worst than now , you didn't address the main issues : Celestial avatar - Druidic Clarity and let's not forget Ancient seed. At this point explain me why did you even bother with soulbeast, it does absolutely nothing better, has less sustain and utility...the time wasted on soulbeast would have been better spent on a "stow pet" feature seen as you adamantly want to keep druid as best duellist in the game...great job

like other professions don't have condi removal?

"stealth/run at will" is the funniest thing I've read. CS is gated by CA use every 15 seconds... You act as if you never encountered a profession that used stealth... and if you have a hard time with Druid stealthing, at a minimum of 15 seconds, then please don't ever go to wvw... I fear to think how you'd deal with all those thieves and mesmers...

Last time I checked this game wasn't balanced around "duelists". And if so, which it's not, then we need to change every profession around dueling...

...Seriously, at least try to make an effort to show you know what you are talking about. Get your facts straight and try to come up with rational arguments.

Druid has been out for 2 years, and counters to that build have been well established, so you need to get better. Don't complain that better players beat you while dueling, just practice harder and actually take the time to understand the mechanics of the game.

@Yannir.4132 said:Let's just see what happens before rushing to make huge sweeping gamewide changes to druid. Though I would actually prefer it if CA 1 skill did damage rather than the healing it does now.

And to be fair, the signet nerf is needed, there's no reason why rangers should have a souped up version of Endure Pain. Other than that I see no way how these changes affect Soulbeast or Core. The Rugged Growth nerf is in practice Druid only, as the other 2 don't use Healing Power. Refined Toxins and Protective Ward changes are a bit iffy though.

A bit iffy? Protective ward is all soulbeasts has against burst, after that they're basically free kill waiting for SoS to end, no other ways to mitigate dmg other than dodge like your butts is on fire

I guess it would be big surprise to some that after current dev's purposed changes druid has decent chance to be removed from meta like spellbraker. I personally would first wait and see how things will play out.

Complaining about ancient seeds. Lol.

@Mr Godlike.6098 said:I guess it would be big surprise to some that after current dev's purposed changes druid has decent chance to be removed from meta like spellbraker. I personally would first wait and see how things will play out.

It won't be removed at all, a good druid hardly need to use CA so that extra 5s CD is meaningless and SoS is in fact a buff if you think about it, meanwhile they nerfed traits completely unrelated to the issue at hand : refined toxin which is great to synergy with Predator's cunning and Protective ward used by core rangers/soulbeast.

You must remember when they nerfed all might stacks on ele, all fire line...before nerfing d/d dmg..then finally they removed celestial, now they're doing the same thing going around trying to please the angry mob abusing a build which in fact elevate their otherwise low skill level...but in the end they will still nerf druid trait line and they won't revert nerfs to core trait and thus ranger will be 10x worst than now as it has been for ele.

People are complacent with putting all eggs in one basket...but the basket soon or later will be gone and you will be left with nothing

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Mr Godlike.6098 said:I guess it would be big surprise to some that after current dev's purposed changes druid has decent chance to be removed from meta like spellbraker. I personally would first wait and see how things will play out.

I want to add that my comment was from perspective of monthly at - and there will be some questions that will have to be answered:

• can druid survive +1 of pro mesmer/thief
• how druid will manege 1v1 pro holoand there is more question if you think about spellbraker also.And why is important for me to look on monthly at's? Because whatever will get to finals will copied by mettabattle and further copied by 80% of pvp population.

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Yannir.4132 said:Let's just see what happens before rushing to make huge sweeping gamewide changes to druid. Though I would actually prefer it if CA 1 skill did damage rather than the healing it does now.

And to be fair, the signet nerf is needed, there's no reason why rangers should have a souped up version of Endure Pain. Other than that I see no way how these changes affect Soulbeast or Core. The Rugged Growth nerf is in practice Druid only, as the other 2 don't use Healing Power. Refined Toxins and Protective Ward changes are a bit iffy though.

Okay, if you really want to keep the weakness on Protective Ward, just reduce the duration of the weakness from 6 seconds to 2. This will still prevent a burst but it won't be a long lasting damage debuff on nearby enemies.

Compromise.

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Yannir.4132 said:Let's just see what happens before rushing to make huge sweeping gamewide changes to druid. Though I would actually prefer it if CA 1 skill did damage rather than the healing it does now.

And to be fair, the signet nerf is needed, there's no reason why rangers should have a souped up version of Endure Pain. Other than that I see no way how these changes affect Soulbeast or Core. The Rugged Growth nerf is in practice Druid only, as the other 2 don't use Healing Power. Refined Toxins and Protective Ward changes are a bit iffy though.

We start compromising when they nerf thief/mesmer/warrior/engi burst not before I am afraid, they introduced all the passive crap to allow people to keep with the powecreep burst, remove it....and there won't be need for this much passive but at the moment...you need some sort of passive defense to avoid insta death from stealth

I don't see nerfs to thief or mesmer dmg and that's troublesome:

-Larcenous strike does way too much dmg for an unblockable attack with that low CD-Mesmer burst is still off the charts considering the distortion/mirror image/elusive mind spamming combo

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Yannir.4132 said:Let's just see what happens before rushing to make huge sweeping gamewide changes to druid. Though I would actually prefer it if CA 1 skill did damage rather than the healing it does now.

And to be fair, the signet nerf is needed, there's no reason why rangers should have a souped up version of Endure Pain. Other than that I see no way how these changes affect Soulbeast or Core. The Rugged Growth nerf is in practice Druid only, as the other 2 don't use Healing Power. Refined Toxins and Protective Ward changes are a bit iffy though.

Why not at the same time?

Druid doesn't need Protective Ward to survive... I take Beastmastery over Nature Magic most of the time simply because I think Nature Magic is weaker. Of course, its personal preference, but I generally don't die at all in high plat/legend, whilst holding many 1vXs over the course of a match even without Protective Ward slotted.

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Yannir.4132 said:Let's just see what happens before rushing to make huge sweeping gamewide changes to druid. Though I would actually prefer it if CA 1 skill did damage rather than the healing it does now.

And to be fair, the signet nerf is needed, there's no reason why rangers should have a souped up version of Endure Pain. Other than that I see no way how these changes affect Soulbeast or Core. The Rugged Growth nerf is in practice Druid only, as the other 2 don't use Healing Power. Refined Toxins and Protective Ward changes are a bit iffy though.

In PvP and with druid ....shouldn't you try first without druid and see how that works for you?

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Yannir.4132 said:Let's just see what happens before rushing to make huge sweeping gamewide changes to druid. Though I would actually prefer it if CA 1 skill did damage rather than the healing it does now.

And to be fair, the signet nerf is needed, there's no reason why rangers should have a souped up version of Endure Pain. Other than that I see no way how these changes affect Soulbeast or Core. The Rugged Growth nerf is in practice Druid only, as the other 2 don't use Healing Power. Refined Toxins and Protective Ward changes are a bit iffy though.

I don't really run Druid at all in ranked. I've been playing berserker/marauders Soulbeast in ranked every since PoF came out. With that being said, I still play Druid occasionally if my team in an AT needs it.

Also, even when I run Druid while quing, I generally play berserker/marauders and I still don't have trouble surviving.

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@"Yannir.4132" said:Let's just see what happens before rushing to make huge sweeping gamewide changes to druid. Though I would actually prefer it if CA 1 skill did damage rather than the healing it does now.

And to be fair, the signet nerf is needed, there's no reason why rangers should have a souped up version of Endure Pain. Other than that I see no way how these changes affect Soulbeast or Core. The Rugged Growth nerf is in practice Druid only, as the other 2 don't use Healing Power. Refined Toxins and Protective Ward changes are a bit iffy though.

You must be using "protect me" which is an alternative and can't be considered passive gameplay , moa stance....ways to reduce insta burst