Rev changes feedback/suggestions

Currently:RevenantSkills

• Coalescence of Ruin: Reduced the power coefficient of the second impact from 1.75 to 1.5 (-14%) in WvW only. Reduced the power coefficient of the third impact from 2.25 to 1.75 (-22%) in WvW only. I don't wvw that much if at all so I don't know if revs are a problem or not there. But hammer apart from #2 is kinda bad so maybe buff the other aspects of it a little bit to make it less of a 1 trick set.-Razorclaw's Rage: Increased the Bleeding duration from 2 seconds to 4 seconds in PvP and WvW; Icerazor's Ire: Increased the Power coefficient from 3.7 to 4.6 (+24%) in PvP and WvW. Gonna commet on those together. Renegade has been so far from viable even in concept since it's release that I can't even bring myself to try it, but I never seen one that did not instantly die by literally any build. There needs to be some functionality changes asap.
• Soothing Stone: Increased the number of conditions cleansed from 3 to 5 in PvP and WvW. Awesome.
• Vengeful Hammers: Reduced the upkeep cost from 7 to 6 in PvP and WvW. nice!
• Forced Engagement: Reduced the energy cost from 25 to 10. Increased the cooldown from 10 seconds to 20 seconds in PvP and WvW. I don't know how i feel about this yet. I think the cd should've stayed the same and energy go down to 20 or 15. But I don't know yet. Maybe people who play more jalis can tell me.
• Embrace the Darkness: Increased the attribute bonus from 10% to 15% in PvP and WvW. ETD was very meh and now it's just pretty meh but still meh. You only use it to proc demonic defiance and diabolic inferno for low energy cost and not much else. It should do 2 torment per pulse imo with all the unneeded nerfs of 12/12 as if this build was viable. Or possibly just make it pulse chill instead of torment and increase the cost by 1 (even do that? This build needs buffs really).
• Banish Enchantments: Increased the number of boons removed from 2 to 3 in PvP and WvW. cool.
• Pain Absorption: Reduced the energy cost from 35 to 30 in PvP and WvW. Yeh nice. good change.Traits
• Eye for an Eye: Increased the cooldown from 45 seconds to 90 seconds in PvP only. Versed in Stone: Increased the cooldown from 60 seconds to 90 seconds in PvP only. Imma do this together again. Basically I can see where this comes from, and I don't like passive play either, but retribution needs compensations. This is a serious nerf to the last remains of the condition revenant in PvP. Buff other retribution traits, or better remove those nerfed traits all together and bring something new because these are now way too weak.Soothing Bastion: Increased the cooldown from 25 seconds to 60 seconds in PvP only. This trait needs a buff elsewhere then. No one was running it either way.

Also, Rune of surging being removed. A real nerf to power revenant. We gonn get bopped by thieves even more now. Brace yourselves. Seriously nerf thieves if you're doing this LOL because this was the only way you'd kill a good one unless he's already pressured. At the very least we need a rune with power and boon duration to replace this. Otherwise this is quite bad.

More things I could see changed (not gonna do renegade, because I don't know what it needs):

• Impossible Odds - Reduce the initial cost from 10 to 5. Just to make it more appealing to pop even if you don't have quickness. Right now you run out of energy before you get 2 attacks off with this unless you have quickness.
• Phase Travesal - Energy cost from 35 to 30. To help the class feel more fluid. The quickness definetly did it, but right now it is very expensive to get the quickness for a class that relies on it so heavily.
• Sword 4 - Could use a damage nerf really.
• Sword 2 - Could see some of the damage nerfed from 4 reallocated to it. Most importantly all 3 bolts should go to your selected target. This precisions strike is not precise at all.
• Mace 2 - could see a slight radius increase.
• Mace 3 - Increase torment to 5 stacks.
• Axe 4 - Increase the projectile speed.
• Hammer 3 - Split the skill into two, First part will be the exact skill like now but it does not return you to your original position. Part 2 will return you to your original position. You have access to part 2 for 5 seconds. Faster up the animation by 1/4 seconds (reducing evade from 5/4 to 1 second).
• Hammer 5 Reduce cast time from 7/4 seconds to 5/4 seconds.
• Staff auto could use a 10% damage increase. Last attack instead of shooting orbs just heals around you for the same total amount.
• Demonic Defiance - Remake this to make ETD pulse resistance and torment on you. (Resistance 1s, Torment 2s)
• Bolstered Anguish - Instead you take reduced power/condition damage for each condition on you.
• Improved Aggression - reworked into - Movement impairing conditions have their duration reduced. Gain retaliation when inflicted by such a condiiton.
• Eye for an eye - rework this trait. Gain retaliation when using a healing skill. You take less damage while having retaliation and Your retaliation deals increased damage.
• Retaliatory Evasion - Move Steadfast Rejuvination here. Steadfast Rejuvination chance increased to 100% and cooldown down to 3 seconds.
• Made of Deldrimor - instead of Steadfast rejuvination. Using a legendary dwarf skill grants you a stacking buff (up to 3 times) that reduces incoming damage. Upon reaching 3 stacks, legendary dwarf skills inflict slow on foes when hit (icd).
• Cleansing Channel - removes 2 conditions.
• Spirit boon - Just gonna comment on this real quick - We are not elementalist. We don't swap constantly so this elementalist designed trait is not fitting for revenant in my opinion and I much prefered the play with Equilibrium. That said, the duration of those boons should at least be increased to make this worth taking over IR.
• Rapid flow - Reduce the cooldown of this trait to 1 second and reduce it's healing by 33%. If this actually starts being a good sustain source maybe rev can have a good 1v1 dedicated spec.
• Song of the Mists - Simply not impactful enough I feel. Not sure what i'd change, without making this like Equilibrium basically.
• Bolster Fortifications, Kind of meh really, considering you have Facet of Chaos. Should give you protection duration as well.
• Harmonize Continuity - Could be merged with swift gale. Add a trait that compliments a condition build. Consuming a facet burns and chills foes it hits.
• Soothing Bastion - Wielding a shield grants you 180 toughness in addition to it's previous effects.
• Enhanced Bulwark - too tied to Unwavering Avoidance I feel. Could be to grant you stability when you apply protection to yourself (1 stack, 3s, 10 icd).
• Ferocious Strikes, kinda outclassed by VL for dual wield (sword always). I actually suggest making this a buff for wielding a two handed weapon instead.
• Swift Termination: Could be more appealing if it had tiers (Simillar to heartseeker) +10% below 75%, 15% below 50%, 20% below 25%. (Tinker with the numbers I guess, that's the idea though).

Forced Engagement - if you check other professions cc utilities you will notice that their cd are 30-45 sec. rev cost 10 nrg with 20 sec cd.i like this skill but i wish it could be shorter cd . it easy to miss and blocked or reflect. so maybe 15 nrg and 15 sec.

or........ why not .....

rev new Fskills; Armageddon; passiv 1500 range aoe , >everyone gets instant downed when entering areaperfect for pro high gaymors

@Arkantos.7460 said:or........ why not .....

rev new Fskills; Armageddon; passiv 1500 range aoe , >everyone gets instant downed when entering areaperfect for pro high gaymors

Your point?The list I proposed are things that could be done, not all at once. Although amost all of these are directed at unused and outclassed traits and skills aside from renegade and ventari which I don’t have a lot of experience on so I refrain from suggesting changes.

Really hope Anet sees this post for revenant suggestions, agree with all of them pretty much.

Upcoming balance feels like heavily focusing on Revenant in WvW but not sure it will change anything...Hammer nerfs were unjustified but it will still be good in blobs because warrior bubble and sand savant still exist. Not sure if frontline condi herald will return or not since the buffs to dwarf and mallyx weren't that big and resistance spam is not that good anymore.

PvP wise I'm just glad power rev isn't getting more nerfs and if they will nerf thief and Mesmer it should be meta again next season.

I would also propose the following:

• reduce the cast time on Renewing Wave (staff 4) to at lesat 3/4 of a second.
• reduce the cast time on Punishing Sweep (staff 2 first hit) to 1/2 of a second or rework the whole chain so it works just like spellbreaker's Disrupting Stab (dagger 3)
• increase the range on Burst of Strength to at least 450 (sword 4 range basically) and reduce the cast time to 3/4 sec from 1 sec. Might also make it apply poison on first hit and vuln on second, which wouldn't make much sense, but would give it some advantage over the afore mentioned Shackling Wave and somewhat make up for the loss of cleave potential on downstate. Change the boon type the facet grants on passive upkeep from might to retaliation or vigor.
• maybe also rework Impossible Odds so it's actually not an upkeep anymore, but gives you the stance effect akin to soulbeast's One Wolf Pack on activation: 4 seconds duration of bonus strikes and superspeed, insta casted with energy cost of 10 and cooldown of 20 seconds.
• reduce the Facet of Light energy upkeep cost back to 1 energy from 2 in sPvP

So I played renegade (jalis/shiro) and some condition specs and also ventari support the other day and I got a little more insight on where they could use some changes.

My goal here is to bring ventari up to a level where it can compete with firebrand and (hopefully will be back in meta) tempest in the main support role.

Let’s get to em:Ventari needs a stunbreak. When swapping to ventari you get trained way too hard and the 2 stab on evading an attack can no longer carry legends without stun-breaks with all the boon removal flying around.I suppose quite a bit of cd reductions, but I think they’re fair considering you can’t camp ventari and spam without running out of energy.

Putting it on the elite seems fair.Skills:

• energy expulsion: No longer spend all energy, no longer cleanse conditons per energy spent. Now breaks stun and grants stability (1, 3sec).
• protective solace cost from 8 to 7. Currently a little to costly to use.
• natural harmony: reduce cooldown from 2 to 1 second.
• Ventari’s will: reduce cooldown from 3 to 2 seconds.
• purifying essence: reduce energy cost from 25 to 20. Reduce cooldown from 5 to 3 seconds.

Traits:

• Disarming riposte has been replaced by Blinding Truths, which blinds nearby foes when using a healing skill.
• Blinding Truths: replaced by Eluding Nullification, which cleanses a condition from nearby allies when dodge rolling.
• Tranquil benediction: now also grants 180 healing power while wielding a staff.
• Eluding Nullification: replaced by new trait, Restorative Solace: Protective Solace pulses healing every second to allies standing inside. 256 healing (0.14 scale).
• Natural Abundance: also reads: Your energy fragments from all sources now also cleanse a condition.

Renegade:

So renegade is supposed to be condi oriented and kind of like a bruiser, which is cool. If renegade becomes the option for rev to be a side node spec (style of druid and sb, not as broken) then it’ll be nice.As this is the role I have in mind, condition sustainy bruiser, I will look to changes in that spirit to push it to this role.

Mechanics:

• Kalla’s Fervor: currently grants 30 ferocity and 2% condition damage. 30 ferocity is the weakest bonus from the power damage stat set, and does not play at all into a condition type role. I suggest making that 30 toughness.

• Heroic command can be quite useful to rack up some might, but having a profession mechanic that all it does is get up to 10 might is quite underwhelming. I think this should restore some health per stack of Kalla’s Fervor (numbers can be changed to make it feel strong but not broken). Should scale pretty good with healing power. Increase cd to 15 seconds.

• Citadel Bombardment: never really worth using apart from getting a dodge out because no one has a clue its useless and it looks impressive. For 30 energy (wiki still says 35, could be wrong here) it is far from worth. It rarely hits more than once ot twice with its small radius and random missiles. It should be reworked to act more like bow 5 of dh/ranger in that it hits the entire area reliably, and reduce energy cost to 25.

• Orders from above: increase cooldown to 25 seconds. Each pulse now clears a condition.

Traits:

• Ashen demeanor: bearly ever worth to take, as you have few disables to extract its already limited value. Change conditions applied from 5 vulnerability and cripple to blind and 3 poison for 5 seconds. Only apply on an interrupt instead of any disable.
• Blood Fury: Instead of fury applying Kalla’s fervor which is easily capped anyway, have fury increase its potency by making it also grant 30 ferocity.
• Heartpiercer: shortbow skills also recharge 20% faster.
• All for One: now also reads:your warband members gain stability when summoned (1 stack, 5 seconds)
• Vindication: considering the functionality of Citadel Bombardment should change to a duration aoe, this trait will now make it last longer by 25% (from 3s to 4) and apply an additional burning stack per hit.

Now for the weapon and legend, I had a hard time to decide which one was worse, and in truth its the bow. The legend has some skills that are pretty good at least.

So lets get to the bow first:

• Bloodbane path: needs to be more reliable vs moving targets. I find this skill to be strafed too often.
• Sevenshot: needs to be able to center the attack at closer ranges, and not be forced to be 900 range for this attack to be effective.
• Spiritcrush: needs to be able to be cast behind the player, like guardian’s bow symbol. Apply 2 burns per pulse up from one.
• Scorchrazor: Increase burning stacks to 2.

Kalla:Reduce cast times to summon warband members to 1/2 sec across the board.

• Razorclaw’s Edge: this skill is like the ranger one where the next 6 attacks apply bleeds. No kne takes it for a reason. Even that is better tbh cause its a survival and gives 2 cleanse and fury when traited. This warband member now attacks, and benefits from own buff.
• Icerazor’s Ire: attacks no longer split between enemies, but instead attack all foes around it simultaneously up to 15 strikes down from 20. Up to 5 targets.
• Soulcleave’s Summit: reduce upkeep cost from 8 to 6. Increase lifesteal healing by 20%.

I posted this on another thread but the shortbow just needs to change entirely.

it needs to 1: cast/fire more quickly. More often than not a simply moving NPC aggroing towards you will evade Shortbow 2 (bloodbane bath, which spawns arrows firing from random directions around the enemy) because of the cast time for the animation to play.

2: It needs to have a larger area of effect for it's area attacks. Spirit crush has a tiny radius and a long cast time before it actually appears and does damage, while needing an enemy to stay still in order to actually inflict its full damage in such a small area, requiring a full 3 seconds in order to hit for full damage. Make the interval 3/4 of a second and make it hit 5 times total instead of 4, while buffing the radius up by ~120 or so more.

3: Sevenshot needs to be mechanically reworked. Right now it requires absolute pinpoint positioning which is utterly invalidated because A: Enemies are always on the move, when combined with B: the delayed cast of the skill results in an all or nothing damage for the skill. The only time this skill is good is on a DPS golem or with lucky stray shots.

The initial starting wave is too wide and as a whole, does very poor damage even when accounting for "cleave" compared to other weapons. Furthermore, while the damage is somewhat impressive if all shots land, the range and hit-boxes of the arrows vary meaning that if you perfectly align a shot but are one step too far, 1/2 the bolts might not hit.

Sevenshot needs a mechanical rework and this is what I propose. Like its current iteration, the skill should start where the character is at (IE, "rooted" at the character). However, the initial starting spread of the weapon needs to be much smaller, at the very least one QUARTER of what it actually is currently. Even the Poison Spray of Ranger Shortbow isn't even this wide, meaning it's actually effective at range as opposed to the renegade which is just a tickle if used point blank. Second is the mechanical change.
Instead of being a solid Triangle that decreases the spread at a set rate (like it currently is now, which forces pinpoint maneuvering on a class that's naturally immobile), it needs to depend on where the player's pointer is located. In other words, the shot is "X" shaped.The arrows will travel the full range but originate at a small spread, say at the bottom of this "X". Depending on where the player moves their mouse relative to the player model, it will change the trajectory spread of the arrows so that it may end up being much wider or thinner depending on where the player places it. It will make it much easier to land all the shots while still requiring active player engagement to properly land and fire it without making it as frustrating as the current thing is. This will go a LONG way in making the weapon much more usable in both PVE and PVP without smashing the balance. Ultimately, it also means that if you do manage to land your shots perfectly in the middle of that "X" shape, it won't randomly not cause an arrow to hit due to much less randomness in arrow generation and projectile traveling.

As it stands, what really kills the usability of Sevenshot however is the initial spread. It makes the "optimal" damage area extremely small and anything outside that area is literally barely more than a tickle. Not to mention that because of the incredibly inconsistent NPC hitbox design on mooks, it makes it a terrible weapon to use when its main damage component depends on consistent hiboxes and proper design. Without this, it's arbitrary and unfair when other classes literally ignore it.

If, mechanically speaking the "X" function can't be accomplished, then the optimal strike distance should be changed. Instead of a flat triangle the projectiles need to follow a curve so they curve inwards towards a more tight spread. If all else fails, the spread just needs to be smaller to begin with.

you want to trade condi cleanse aoe for stability? common. rev dont have much condi cleanse at all compare to other class and you want delete it???also ventari heal blinds so if you cc you can blind the enemy to miss his attacks that's why you dont need stunbreak on ventari.

also renegade design to act like hybrid dmg dealer which buff his team in the front line. not only condition dmg rather power aswell. check utilities 7 skill - bleed so even with no condi dmg it adds almost 5-10% dmg. 8 and 9 skill power base and the elite power base. only SB skills base on conditions dmg but also direct one if you choose power amulet (compare it to thief and ranger sb dmg)SB - skills 1,2 and 5 are ok . although i would reduce the activation time. AA to 0.25, 2- to 0.5 sec . skill 3 and 4 unreliable thus not used at all.F skills const too much and dont give anything outside pve alacrity. i would give F skills condi cleanse with f4 and reduce the nrg from f2 and f3

Well, the changes do not really change anything.

Jailis changes are nice, but wont really make it viable. Again, the issue with Jailis is energy costs for Inspiring Reinforcement and Rite of the Great Dwarf. If you are using Jailis and sitting with extra energy and use anything other than these two skills you are doing something seriously wrong. Forced Engagement was the good change here. Finally we have something gated by CD instead of energy, so it might actually be used.

For Mallyx, I think the change to Pain Absorption is good. It still costs too much energy. I would rather have it cost less energy and have a CD, but Anet is stuck on making energy the gating. Better than nothing I suppose. The other changes seem like randomly throwing darts. Embrace the Darkness has 0.75 activation time and drains 7 energy. No way in hell it well be useful in PvP. 10% stats or 15% stats does not really matter. Banish Enchantment, costs too much energy. I use it, but primary to remove resistance, if the target has resistance. Other than that, the opportunity cost is way too high at 20 energy. Removing 1 extra boon does not really mean anything. You need to reserve the energy for Unyielding Anguish and Pain Absorption, if needed.

Again, condi rev main issues are three:

1. It does weak damage, due to the huge ramp-up, thanks to the idiotic general condi nerfs end of last year.
2. It has energy issues galore in Mallyx.
3. It has long cast times and delayed effect on all its primary damage skills. Mace 2, Mace 3 and Unyielding Anguish 0.75 cast + delayed effect, for a class that does vast majority of its damage in melee range and is a damage over time. Genius design.

Good bye hammer rev in WvW. Maybe somewhere in the next 10 years you will be sPvP viable.

It is good that Anet realizes there are issues with Mallyx and Jailis. But these randomly generated buffs for them and renegade seriously need to stop. They are waste of devs time and do not end doing anything but piss of the players. If you know something is not working at least attempt to understand why. You cannot fix it with a random change.

RenegadeRenegade legends should have their cast times reduced to .5 and do an instant power burst attack when summoned.Legends should be invulnerable for the first half of their duration.Legends should be able to be consumed after they've reach half their duration for self buffs.When consumed, utility skill Legends act as upkeep skills. Which each cost 2 upkeep cost to maintain.Razorclaw should be doing AoE power damage and Pulsing Bleed. When consumed gain resistance, your attacks siphon life and apply bleeding.IceRazor should be doing AoE power damage and Pulsing Chill. When consumed gain aegis , your attacks siphon life and apply chill.Darkrazor initial stability duration should be increased to 3sec. When consumed gain stability and your attacks siphon life.Breakrazor when consumed gain regeneration and barrier.Soulcleave when consumed gain fury and quickness (45sec cooldown when consumed)

InnvocationInvoker's Rage should grant Fury and Protection.Rapid Flow should grant barrier and retaliation (Combat Only 10sec cooldown) instead of swiftness and healingEmpty Vessel should also grant 25% movement bonus

CorruptionPulsating Pestilence should transfer conditions instead of copying.